Could you date someone with a criminal past?

[kaylan]

This is basically inspired by a recent thread, as well as something I saw on tv. Im sure everyone has seen the MSNBC series Lockup, or shows like it, where cameras go behind bars into the daily lives of corrections officers and inmates.

 

Well let me paint a picture for you...and you can tell me what you would do in such a situation. Also, I am leaving this situation gender neutral so theres no gender bashing in this thread. For the guys who will cry about women liking bad boys, lets not pretend that there arent guys out there who would date an inmate if they found her cool and attractive. It happens with both genders.

 

Now, lets say an inmate was given a sentence of 25 to life for murder back when they were 17. The inmate maintains they are innocent and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The inmate was convicted on the basis on testimony from other bad characters who were involved. Now, I know sometimes innocent people do get locked up, but many times inmates who maintain their innocence are full of it.

 

Now lets say the inmate meets someone once they reach their 20s while they are locked away. The person they meet and eventually date is a family member/close friend of a fellow inmate. They then proceed to have an on and off again friendship/relationship that lasts over 20 years.

 

Now its present day, and the inmate is finally being granted parole. The inmate was denied parole several times because they did not own up to the crime. Generally, a parole board doesnt want to hear how innocent you think you are...the time has been served and you need to own up to the crime. Well, this is finally done in the last parole hearing, and parole is granted.

 

Now the person whom they were on and off dating has decided to let the inmate stay with them. What does LS think about this? I for one think its stupid because:

 

1. Look people do stupid things in their youth...and while I wouldnt ever date someone with a serious criminal background, I could understand someone else overlooking it as long as it wasnt violent crime. In terms of violent crime like murder, rape, child abuse, and assault, I think its really unwise to date such a person even if they were a teenager or early 20s at the time conviction. Im straight laced and stay out of trouble...and I want my women to be as well.

 

2. How well do you know this person? Like really KNOW them? Sure you have known them for 25 plus years, but you only know the "prison them". You dont know them outside of jail, you dont know how they are when other members of the opposite sex are easily within reach. You dont know how prison may have changed their behavior when they are out in greater society, and you dont know how they will behave when they dont have to worry about screwing up in front of guards and parole officials. Given that you two have never truly dated in the real world...letting them live with you is a huuuuuge step. I personally feel the inmate needs to prove themselves by living with their family or friends first, and show they can handle the real world.

 

3. Do you not have options? And lets not pretend only lower class people are dating inmates. If youve seen these tv shows, or read enough articles, you will know that sometimes the people dating those behind bars, are actually decent middle class folks. They may not make up the majority...but they are there. Does a level headed middle class person whos pretty straight laced themselves not fear what this may do to their lives by dating and/or living with such a person? I feel its asking for drama.

 

Thoughts? As I said, I can understand overlooking youthful and/or past transgressions that involve non violent crimes...but how does one overlook behavior that cost someone their life or caused someone physical harm? As someone who greatly values life and civil liberty, I dont get it.

Edited August 23, 2012 by kaylan

[Radu]

I agree and i would extend this to other crimes as well.

 

The only case where i would maybe say less is he/she was arrested for posession of pot, or he/she got a DUI once, or he got reported for DV during divorce or just prior to it.

 

Funny enough i did meet a girl like this who was somewhat innocent, she got 2yrs suspended sentence for trafficking humans.

She worked for a company that picks up jobs abroad and gives them to ppl.

What she didn't know at the time [didn't know it was against the law] was that they worked in horrible conditions.

It started an investigation in that country when the police got on the line, followed through to our country.

They tried to make her the scapegoat way before this, but the prosecutor saw through this.

She got that sentence, and the others got 5-10yrs jail time.

The girl was naive as hell, what would you do ?

[Radu]

Yeah, it depends on location.

I know for my location and DUI is considered having less of a severity than driving without a license [i mean not having one at all ... there are ppl who drive without them], but still serious.

[Pompom]

Yes, as long as he's good to me. I'm no saint either; I didn't merely ascend to Israel, I also fled from Europe, and not because of pogroms... I didn't hurt anyone, but... I'm not a bad person and G-d knows I'm loving, caring and generous with my loved ones. I just don't pass up "victimless opportunities" to improve my own situation.

 

Also, nowadays, most of us are probably "criminals". Who here can say that they haven't downloaded any copyrighted media for free? To me it makes a huge difference if a crime is victimless or not. A victim, to me, is someone who actually suffers from what is done to them. Stealing a DVD from someone who has paid for and enjoyed it, is morally different to me than downloading movies and perhaps robbing the fat, greasy movie industrie of $20.

 

I do draw the line at rape or poorly justified murder. You can kill someone you reasonably fear is going to destroy you, then I think it's justifiable, but if you kill someone for, say, their money or because they published a cartoon of your prophet, now that is poorly justified as you had no existential stakes in it (money doesn't count because anyone can get a job if they try).

 

The love of my life is a criminal I guess. He spent half of his military career in prison for beating up his officer, but do I disagree with his actions? Hell no, that guy had ignored his request for promotion because his skin was too tan for that Nazi! And he taps into his neighbor's cable line. Well he only makes $750 a month so I don't blame him.

 

I'm not looking for Mr. Perfect, nor for Mr. Saint. I'd be looking forever all the while conveniently ignoring that perfect or saint wouldn't fit me.

[Emilia]

No I wouldn't date anyone with a criminal past (I would be prohibited anyway given my current situation), moreover I wouldn't date anyone that comes from a criminal family.

 

One of my colleagues found out his girlfriend was cheating on him with her ex, they had a massive row. She smashed his watch, his iPad, punched him in the face, bit him on the finger and reported him to the police while he was on his way to the police station to report her (he didn't retaliate). While they kept him at the station for a few hours to check out the contradicting stories, her family cleared out their shared flat and took everything. He is pressing charges for ABH and theft.

 

I asked him how come this all escalated so quickly to something this serious, it appears she never had a job because her father is a fairly well known criminal and she never needed to. Clearly she was comfortable to live on her father's ill-gained cash. I think my colleague was also secretly hoping she would inherit it all and he would end up marrying her.

 

Anyway, moral of the story is: don't associate with criminals in any shape or form.

[kaylan]

Yes, as long as he's good to me. I'm no saint either; I didn't merely ascend to Israel, I also fled from Europe, and not because of pogroms... I didn't hurt anyone, but... I'm not a bad person and G-d knows I'm loving, caring and generous with my loved ones. I just don't pass up "victimless opportunities" to improve my own situation.

 

Also, nowadays, most of us are probably "criminals". Who here can say that they haven't downloaded any copyrighted media for free? To me it makes a huge difference if a crime is victimless or not. A victim, to me, is someone who actually suffers from what is done to them. Stealing a DVD from someone who has paid for and enjoyed it, is morally different to me than downloading movies and perhaps robbing the fat, greasy movie industrie of $20.

 

I do draw the line at rape or poorly justified murder. You can kill someone you reasonably fear is going to destroy you, then I think it's justifiable, but if you kill someone for, say, their money or because they published a cartoon of your prophet, now that is poorly justified as you had no existential stakes in it (money doesn't count because anyone can get a job if they try).

 

The love of my life is a criminal I guess. He spent half of his military career in prison for beating up his officer, but do I disagree with his actions? Hell no, that guy had ignored his request for promotion because his skin was too tan for that Nazi! And he taps into his neighbor's cable line. Well he only makes $750 a month so I don't blame him.

 

I'm not looking for Mr. Perfect, nor for Mr. Saint. I'd be looking forever all the while conveniently ignoring that perfect or saint wouldn't fit me.

The whole music downloading angle is weak.

 

Im asking if you could date a violent criminal vs non violent offenders. Music downloading isnt a felony anyways...so lets not try to compare it to felonies.

 

And given the race problems going on in Israel at the moment, I dont blame your bf for beating upa racist. Israel really needs to get better about its prejudice towards darker skinned people...especially if they want America backing them so much. Antisemitism isnt tolerated in America, so violence against brown and black people shouldnt be tolerated in Israel.

 

And stealing cable isnt hurting anyone...lol...carry on.

Edited August 23, 2012 by kaylan

[sigurpol]

It all depends on the charges.

 

If it were for a violent crime that they did some serious time for? Well, there seem to be a few schools of thought for me.

 

I like to stay out of trouble, so I don't know how I would end up meeting anyone with a criminal past. I have friends who have records, but.. they're just my friends.

 

Plus, I also look at this as, if someone has served their time and released. Then that's it. They carried out the punishment, served it, now they're out. I'm not someone who would hold that above their head.

 

Food for thought: One of my best friends, who was raised in a loving, caring, all that stuff-home, met a guy while at college some years back. They started to hang out more and more and I got to know the guy really well. Extremely nice, polite, takes care of this girl. They live together now and he runs a recording studio from his house and has made a pretty big name for himself. I've also played in bands with him; extremely talented guy.

 

He has a criminal past. A pretty nasty one at that, but since he's been out, he's kept away from that sort of thing. Made new friends, met a great girl, and has a good life.

 

At the same time, anecdotal evidence is not evidence. It's all a matter of preference.

[Radu]

The whole music downloading angle is weak.

 

Im asking if you could date a violent criminal vs non violent offenders. Music downloading isnt a felony anyways...so lets not try to compare it to felonies.

 

And given the race problems going on in Israel at the moment, I dont blame your bf for beating upa racist. Israel really needs to get better about its prejudice towards darker skinned people...especially if they want America backing them so much. Antisemitism isnt tolerated in America, so violence against brown and black people shouldnt be tolerated in Israel.

 

And stealing cable isnt hurting anyone...lol...carry on.

 

She has a point.

In the modern world if you want someone in jail, it is very easy to do so.

Globalization made it the lawyer's paradise.

 

She didn't mention his angle, and what his CO's angle was on this [what was his religion ... etc].

 

You are deluded if you think that America has a hold on Israel, AIPAC did a fantastic job with that.

 

Pompom, your bf sounds very violent.

So watch out you don't become the enemy as well.

[Emilia]

Israel really needs to get better about its prejudice towards darker skinned people...especially if they want America backing them so much. Antisemitism isnt tolerated in America, so violence against brown and black people shouldnt be tolerated in Israel.

 

 

They are the same race. Both Arabs and Jews are semites, there are no black people there. It's not a race but a resources issue.

 

I can assure that your leaders in the US do not care about the Arabs in Israel, partly because they are busy trying to contain the influence of militant Islam in the Middle East. Israel is a friend

Edited August 23, 2012 by Emilia

[kaylan]

She has a point.

In the modern world if you want someone in jail, it is very easy to do so.

Globalization made it the lawyer's paradise.

And my point was that you cannot equate violent criminality to non violent criminality. Its not the best comparison.

She didn't mention his angle, and what his CO's angle was on this [what was his religion ... etc].

Um she outright mentioned skin color. So my response was on topic to what she said.

You are deluded if you think that America has a hold on Israel, AIPAC did a fantastic job with that.

Did I say the US has a hold on Israel? No I did not. I said the USA backs Israel, which is true.

Pompom, your bf sounds very violent.

So watch out you don't become the enemy as well.

Violent? Beating up one guy whos a racist idiot doesnt mean he has a violent streak.

They are the same race. Both Arabs and Jews are semites, there are no black people there. It's not a race but a resources issue.

 

I can assure that your leaders in the US do not care about the Arabs in Israel, partly because they are busy trying to contain the influence of militant Islam in the Middle East. Israel is a friend

Um...Im guessing you have no idea about the racism going on against black refugees and migrants in Israel right now.

 

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/06/04/3097281/israels-ethiopian-jews-mistaken-for-african-migrant-workers-feeling-racisms-pain

 

Thats why I mentioned racism. And I also touched on racism because pompom mentioned that her bf's commanding officer didnt like his skin color.

Edited August 23, 2012 by kaylan

[Emilia]

Um...Im guessing you have no idea about the racism going on against black refugees and migrants in Israel right now.

 

Ethiopian-Israeli Jews, mistaken for African migrant workers, feel racism’s pain | JTA - Jewish & Israel News

 

Thats why I mentioned racism. And I also touched on racism because pompom mentioned that her bf's commanding officer didnt like his skin color.

 

No it's not the reason. It's a tiny minority you have never even heard of existing there before. Don't move the goalpost. You mentioned 'brown people' because you didn't know that the Arabs and Jews were of the same race.

[kaylan]

No it's not the reason. It's a tiny minority you have never even heard of existing there before. Don't move the goalpost. You mentioned 'brown people' because you didn't know that the Arabs and Jews were of the same race.

A tiny minority? Why is there a global watch on whats happening to those people then since its such a small minority? Small minority or not, my point remains. It looks bad for a country like Israel to have problems like that, especially when a country like America is a big ally of theirs. And I only brought that up because pompom reminding me of it by mentioning her bf's jerkoff commanding officer.

 

And move the goal post? I know that Arabs and jews are the same race! How about you not be presumptuous and make assumptions about what I meant. Several races of people can be brown you know. And being of the same race as someone else doesnt mean you cannot be racist against them.

 

You wanna tell me I cant find an Arab or Jew that is brown? Arent tan people brown??? Didnt PomPom say her bf was too tan to be promoted? I stand by what I said. Next time down jump the gun. And lets not even pretend that darker people dont run into trouble in that part of the world. Thats why I mentioned brown and black people. Doesnt matter your race, if you are darker than the average citizen, you are likely to face discrimination in the middle east. Hence what happened to PomPoms bf.

Edited August 23, 2012 by kaylan

[Pompom]

The whole music downloading angle is weak.

 

Im asking if you could date a violent criminal vs non violent offenders. Music downloading isnt a felony anyways...so lets not try to compare it to felonies.

I may have missed the part where you asked about violent criminals Well, this also depends. If provoked to a degree where a violent reaction would be understandable, well, then I'm not gonna judge them. Like the guy I mentioned before, good soldier, good guy, but ignored for his race, so I totally understand he'd punch that Nazi. He doesn't spend his days punching people. He posts babies, kittens and puppies on Facebook, watches boring Disney Christmas movies about orphans, and starts each week by wishing everyone a week full of smiles and magic.

 

A sexually violent criminal, no, because that is poorly justified, selfish and needlessly cruel violence only a total monster is capable of.

 

A violent robber, probably also not unless he's changed his ways and dearly regrets his actions, but I'm still sceptical if I even want those types to breathe.

 

Pompom, your bf sounds very violent.

So watch out you don't become the enemy as well.

Sadly, he's the one-sided love of my life... But he's not violent, he's just touchy. If a threatening drunk person enters his personal space when he's already having a migrane, or if he's treated way unfairly (he was in a unit where danger of death was a daily thing, close to and inside Lebanon, and he did his dangerous task without moaning, then got disregarded for his color), he may snap, but other than that, he's a gentle, sweet guy with the patience of a mother. I've seen him calmly talk to aggressive people very often when he worked security, and nothing seemed to faze him.

Also, if we were to ever get together, he wouldn't scare me as long as he got no firearm. He's short and I almost threw him across the room many times while cuddling Being a person with a temper and having been a violent teen myself, I can handle him. I've calmed down and don't even kick rocks anymore, but I know how to jackbauer someone when required

 

 

They are the same race. Both Arabs and Jews are semites, there are no black people there. It's not a race but a resources issue.

Not entirely correct.

The Jewish people can be divided in 3 sub-types:

Ashkenazim (Caucasians, like ginger Kyle Broslovski and blonde me)

Sephardim (Iberian Peninsula, Morocco,.. mostly dark hair and often tan skin)

Mizrahim (Middle-Eastern Jews, black hair, tan to black skin).

The latter are Semites/Arabs, yes, but also include Ethiopians who are very much black, and we have lots of them.

The guy I mentioned earlier, is also Mizrahi and often called "Nigger" by Ashke-Nazis (as opposed to decent Ashkenazim).

 

 

Um...Im guessing you have no idea about the racism going on against black refugees and migrants in Israel right now.

Well - if they were here legally, not stealing/mooching off hardworking tax payers, and not destroying Israel's reputation for having little street crime, and not occupy formerly popular childrens' playgrounds and parks, maybe then they would be treated well!

 

Criminal infiltrators who have nothing but "occupational therapy" for police to offer this nation, need to stay out, it's that simple. Israel is not a charity homeless shelter soup kitchen; it was founded for JEWS and if you're no Jew, you better provide a good reason for us to feed, house and clothe you. Israel embraces non-Jewish people and I have gentile friends I love, on the very humble condition that legal status, integration and exemplary behavior be their top priority.

This is not a matter of color. If Norwegians were to flood our country illegally, rape, mug and stink up the place, we would be hating on them, too. I know I would.

[Janesays]

If it were a violent crime, no. No way. No how.

 

But I have a friend who went to jail for a couple of years when he was young for selling drugs. Today, he is a software developer making six figures and a soccer dad of 2. You don't find a more straight laced man that him now.

[TaraMaiden]

No, I wouldn't.

I have done, but wouldn't do so again.

[Pompom]

If it were a violent crime, no. No way. No how.

 

But I have a friend who went to jail for a couple of years when he was young for selling drugs. Today, he is a software developer making six figures and a soccer dad of 2. You don't find a more straight laced man that him now.

 

Well, dealing drugs is basically the criminalized equivalent of selling cigarettes and alcohol - catering to the demands of those who chose to ruin their bodies. So I don't think dealing drugs is morally wrong or takes a bad person. Drug dealers, just by selling stuff, don't hurt anyone. They cater to those who made a habit of hurting themselves - just like smokers and boozeheads.

[SensitiveTJ]

My ex got picked up a few months ago for felony heroin distribution. She still calls at least once a week. Not a chance we get back together, or anyone else with that kind of background.

[Els]

It really depends. Just recently, a woman in the country I used to live in was sentenced to several years of jail for a violent crime - killing a man who tried to rape her. There was no disputing the fact that he had broken into her house and tried to rape her, and the court admitted that, but they decided that there was no need for 'such excessive force' and thus she went above and beyond self defense in that case. So, jail for her.

 

So, I think it depends entirely on the situation, person, case. Justice is often really not served appropriately. I would rather make my own judgments about the person.

[kaylan]

It really depends. Just recently, a woman in the country I used to live in was sentenced to several years of jail for a violent crime - killing a man who tried to rape her. There was no disputing the fact that he had broken into her house and tried to rape her, and the court admitted that, but they decided that there was no need for 'such excessive force' and thus she went above and beyond self defense in that case. So, jail for her.

 

So, I think it depends entirely on the situation, person, case. Justice is often really not served appropriately. I would rather make my own judgments about the person.

Well yeah, this is different. Thatd be manslaughter and losing yourself in the moment of self defense. I dont fault her at all. Rape is horrible...and it pains me that women ever have to go through such a thing. And Im pissed shes going to jail...could you link me the story? I hope she has people fighting to keep her out of prison.

 

Self defense is entirely different to me than premeditated murder. Id date that lady. The guy got what he deserved for being a jerk. Because who knows if he may have killed her had she not been able to fight back.

Edited August 24, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[kiss_andmakeup]

I could and would never date a guy in jail...period. I have to wonder, why would anybody?

 

If I met him post-parole and then found out about his history, it would be a problem. But then again, and this is probably a very biased and stigmatized thing for me to say, but I have to imagine that an ex-con parolee would not be the "type" I'd be attracted to in the first place.

 

Granted, you never know.

 

I'm responding only to the scenario presented by the OP in which the man/woman in question was convicted of murder. Not drug-related or non-violent crimes that have been mentioned in subsequent posts.

[kiss_andmakeup]

Being in Jail and Being in prison are two vastly different things. Being in jail is a holding period you go to trial, get sentenced, get convicted, being in Prison is when you are alreadly convicted.

 

Someone who forgot to pay a traffic ticket (innocently) can get whats called a failure to get appear which is a warrant. If you get pulled over, and you cannot pay the warrant and court fees, you are arrested and sent to the County Jail. Non violent crime. Very common.

 

My mistake, but I think considering the context of my post and noting that I was referring to the OP's proposed hypothetical situation, it's pretty clear what I meant.

[wow04]

2 years ago I would have told you no way would I date someone who has been in prison. Now I am dating a man who spent 4 years in prison for aggravated robbery. I have known this man for over 10 years. He got mixed up with drugs and needed to get the next fix.

 

He is a changed man. He goes to 12 step meetings and has turned his life around. He is the sweetest man I have ever been with. My kids love him.

 

So if someone is to date a man that has been to prison I think they have to see if he has changed his ways or not.

[truth_seeker]

Depends on the crime. If they're a convicted thief or sex offender, then no thanks. If it were something stupid they did as a youth, which resulted in probation, then it wouldn't be much of an issue.

[kaylan]

I love having my words twisted in order to make me look like some kind of evil Nazi. Also. People who do not live here and cannot judge the situation aside from what some silly news source filters, processes, censores and regurgitates for them, need to tune it down a nodge. The only thing I'm blaming illegals - criminals by definition - for, is their own deeds, and they do commit frequent street crimes Israelis rarely commit. With not a single word ever, did I even remotely defend racist physical attacks/manslaughter/murder. I did, rightly, defend a lack of enthusiasm towards illegal - criminal and useless - immigrants, clarifying very explicitely that their color didn't matter unlike their behavior.

 

 

Thanks Alex for clarifying that. I had no idea to be honest.

I didnt twist your words at all. Your post on the last page basically blasts one guy for being racist to your boyfriend, yet makes excuses for why some Jews are being racist towards dark skinned people. And the crappy part about whats going in your country is dark skinned Jews are being profiled and harmed when they have NOTHING to do with the new people who come into the country. And lets not pretend every single foreigner is a bad apple. So despite a few doing bad things, theres no defense for harming people based on where they come from on their skin color.

 

End of story. Its funny how you dont see the hypocrisy in your previous posts. You cant deride racism in one part of your posts, and then defend racist behavior in another. Racism is why dark Jews get profiled and mistaken for migrant workers. No way around that. And your post didnt make much of a distinction between good and bad immigrants. You simply gave reasons for why people attack them. And as I said, its no different from the scapegoating that went on in Greece.

 

PS - Silly news source? Im sorry, not really. My link was from a Jewish organization that backs what your country does and is about. Its not some typical American news source.

Israel is always seen as the villain. I would love to have a healthy debate in the proper forum. It will turn into a disaster. A lot of immigrants flock to Israel as you know and live there.

Lmao...lets not pretend Israel is innocent in everything it does. Come on now.

Edited August 23, 2012 by kaylan

[Ugh1]

Run, Run, Run