after this chain of time&space/breakup stuff, what next? did i ever wait LONG enough?

[Kate]

to sum up my long, complex story (duh, like everyone's here), my ex and i were fighting randomly when i would get upset at his detached emotional behavior. he didn't seem to think he was doing anything wrong or not giving me attention. after too many once a week arguments, (not screaming/crying/throwing things, just very emotionally uncomfortable, confusing, miscommunication), he said he needed a break. i asked him to reconsider, that to me, and break means it's totally over, and he said that his heart was telling him to do so. so, i assumed it was for good...i laid in bed for a day wanting to disappear, cried for 3 days, and picked myself up and started my life again. i started socializing like usual and moving on. 5 days later i get 2 missed phone calls from him, one voicemail, saying "hey, it's just me, just wanted to talk...call me back or i'll call you tomorrow...". he didn't call "tomorrow". he texted me the following day though, unfortunately when i was drinking (or i would have avoided him) and said, "do you never want to speak to me again?" finally i broke and said i cared for him very much. he said he wanted to talk about things, so we did. i brought a list of about 20 things that had hurt me since day one in the relationship, and he responded with feelings of his own guilt. he said that because he got out of a 4 year relationship only 1 month prior to getting involved with me (we were friends for a few years, dated for 6 at that point in early may), he didn't feel he had the grace period necessary and therefore didn't even realize he wasn't putting in the energy needed. he said he had always had a thing for me, and couldn't act on it earlier in his last relationship, so when the opportunity to date me arose, he jumped...however he did jack s.h.i.t for me, that's for sure. among some of the things he DIDN'T do are:

 

1) ever offer me gas $ after i drove him around for 2 months when he had no car!!! (and he's 26 and lives with his mom)

2) we went to dinner 2 times.

3) i always paid my share, sometimes his...a few times he covered me.

4) he never ever suggested anything romantic, we just kind of hung out after i got out of work watched tv etc.

5) he never gave me a card, note or flower or anything of that nature.

 

now, i don't NEED THINGS to know how someone feels...but in addition to the above, he never shared his feelings...unless he was drunk or i shared first. these things really shook my ground as i fell in love with him...and made me extremely insecure in the relationship. soooo.....

 

so he needed time/space. i said ok. but i couldn't. 2 days later i called him late at night drunk, and started a fight. i was so angry, felt so taken advantage of throughout the whole relationship, then HE was leaving ME for time and space!!! how unfair!! so, basically that night i was a drunken fool (like most of the times we argued, as i made the mistake of NEVER discussing my gripes sober thinking i was going to push him away....but i did it anyway!). i pushed him so far that night that i don't think he ever wanted to come back. i called him the next day, begged to talk, and told him how sorry i was and that i was going to deal with my issues as to why i deal with things drunk and not sober (in the wrong way). he said he needed a permanent break (shocker!!) and this whole thing was KILLING ME... because it was all his fault...but then became mine, because i dealt with feelings so WRONGLY -- not sober. but, it was what it was.

 

the next day, after he said he needs a permanent break, i sent him an email saying don't contact me until you are ready for a committed relationship. i let 10 days pass of NC. i couldn't take it anymore and texted him for coffee. he responded immediately and said sure. i picked him up and we went and had a great 2 hours like friends. the spark was still there. he said he doesn't want to date anyone, that he really really needs space and time. that he ran a marathon for 4 years before me, then right away jumped into something wtih me he thought he could handle but couldn't give it the attention it deserved. i said i respected him, and this time i DID. i didn't talk to him for a week exactly, which was when i contacted him as he had offered to help me move into my new house with my friends. after one week more, things seemed to move at a rapid, rapid pace...i was doing great great great, (seemingly, but really doing a lot of work on myself, as i vowed to never show myself in that light again or let myself down with pride) and he was a great help to me. we had a great dinner with my dad. we ended up having sex and it was wonderful. i didn't feel used, nothing, it was very genuine and sweet. after he helped me, i said thank you and nothing else.

 

another 3 days passed and i texted him to do dinner. he couldn't, but responded immediately and told me why. the next night, i ran into him and he asked me to call him later. we ended up at the same place and he wanted to leave with me and get a bite to eat. we did, we talked, then fell asleep at my place. he was not interested in sex, just being with me. then we went to breakfast and he dropped me off. i mentioned nothing further. but, then that day i started getting upset...i was hanging out with him, but not WITH him...it was horrible feeling...i had him, but only half way. it wasn't fair. so i called him to go get coffee that night. we did...and when he left he suggested maybe we'd do something that next week. this was on sunday. i said, "ok". i then texted him thursday, 4 days later. he called me immediately. i suggested a drink, he said sure. we had a terrific time, talked for 3 hours and felt close as usual. we communicated perfectly when we tried...other things just went uncommunicated like "needs". he stayed over and suggested that we go away that next weekend, as i had thrown him a bone the week before when i told him i wanted to take him away for the weekend. he said that he wanted to. i said, "ok, i'll tell you when i book it, it's my treat". this was just one more thing i was going to do for HIM though...even though he did offer to pay...so the next day i booked a weekend away. i called him that night and left a voicemail telling him i booked it. he didn't call me all weekend long, didn't even say thank you or acknowledge it....now normally this wouldnt have bothered me, except i myslef went away that weekend -- and spent time with an old friend who treats me like GOLD. AND SO HERE IS THE TURNING POINT TO MY WHOLE STORY THUS FAR!!!!!!..............

 

after just 20 hours with my guy friend who i am very connected with, i couldn't believe the eye opener i recieved. i was treated with awesome respect. i spent a short time with someone who didn't walk in front of me EVER, held doors and let ME pass through first, was incredibly attentive, dug into my mind and heart, and just treated me with a focus and interest my ex never did, but thought he would. i think i confused our friendship with the possibility of having a great relationship!!! (my ex and i). as i drove home last sunday night, i thought about my ex and how poorly i was treated without even realizing it. i decided at that moment i was not going to extend myself any further. i was going to cancel the trip. why was i going to blow money i don't have and do something special for someone who NEEDS SPACE!? enough abuse, i felt. that night i texted my ex and told him i would like to postpone the tirp, and would he mind. he asked why, i just said another time would be better...then i caved and told him to come over to talk about it. i think he knew something was up, like i was finally waking up to the fact that i have not been treated very well by him. and when i say not treated well, i just mean it was not what he did, but what he didn't do - the basic human needs in any relationship...we talked and decided we wouldn't go because he said HE is the one who should have initiated it. he wasn't stepping up to the plate very well and it bothered me. however the next day, i get a call from the hotel, and it was too late to cancel. so i called my ex, told him, and he said, "great then well go, it will be good for us". ok...so fast forward...i spent all of monday on my couch. i called in sick to work, thinking about that morning and how we planned to do the trip. i was starting to get sick about all i have done for my ex. the next morning, i woke up and finally said, "enough". i cancelled my ccard with the bank, just so i wouldn't get charged by the hotel that wouldn't let me cancel. i texted my ex, saying that the trip was off because they did cancel our reservation. my thoughts were racing, and i was becoming increasingly aware of the fact that i was so taken for granted for the last 7 months. i have a laundry list of crimes i could post here. my ex texted me back and didn't even offer an alternative...he wrote, "o well, we'll try another weekend". his indifference was too much. so i wrote back, "i dont think so. i have given my all. i no longer want to pursue anything with us." he wrote back, "i respect your decision. i'm sorry things couldn't work out between us".

 

now, my question to all of you is, what does this all mean? i mean, i have my own conclusions 1) i was too nice and didn't let him need or miss me 2) he is immature and his life is not organized, mine is 3) he is overwhelmed by me and basic emotional responsibility....but most importantly, i DO NOT want him anymore...the way he is, now. he claims he is not like that, that it was all a matter of timing. that he doesn't know how to handle anything right now. he is not a baby, actually has way toooo much pride, and does not confide in others about stress. he is trying to move out of his house, get his business established, and he is overwhelmed by me and the realtionship. i will say with zero humility obviously i am the best thing that ever walked his way. not only that, i gave him everything and even tried to give him space. but at what point did i have to stop banging my head against the wall?

 

my confusion is the things he said...how he saw no one else but me...but he never treated me right! AND, he just accepted my breakup text after so much pain i have been through. i have been VERY direct, never played a game with him once. based on all of this information, i wonder, is it that easy for him to just move on?? how do i know if he really loves me??? it's not like his life is perfectly in order, yet at the same time i deserve SO much better..but the reason i'm on here is i wonder if he really is capable of something else...and i don't want to give him a chance until i know he's ready....but what now?? i'm just realizing that he won't chase me no matter what, especially with a text response like that that was so blase. but......the first time he broke up with me, i got those calls and a text...i think he's just used to me ALWAYS running to him, ALWAYS calling him....so, HOW LONG DO I HAVE TO DO THE N/C UNTIL YOU THINK I HEAR FROM HIM??? THE LONGEST I WENT WAS 10 DAYS, BUT I DIDN'T TELL HIM I DIDN'T WANT TO TRY ANYMORE. WILL HE REALIZE THE ERROR OF HIS WAYS? HOW LONG DO I WAIT TO GET PEACE OF MIND THAT HE ACTUALLY DID CARE?

[popvix]

Hiya,

 

A big theme on these forums are people who are frustrated that their ex's dont act the way we want them to - either IN the relationships or OUT of them, which although i think is upsetting on one hand because it doesnt feel "fair" how the other person is hurting LESS than we are,.... but from my own experience right now - i think its partly because in the back of our mind we always have some hope that if that person would just at least think/act/do what we would like them too, that we wouldnt be in this position to begin with.

 

In my case, i keep thinking my ex is going to suddenly miss everything we had in seven years and suddenly hold the 1000 things that being in a relationship with someone gives you - over the few things that being able to go and screw other men gives you ...... so im tapping my fingers waiting for her to "stop being dumb" .. but it just doesnt happen.

 

It sounds like maybe he isnt able to instinctively provide alot of things that you need from a relationship to begin with .... i doubt its a deliberate thing on his behalf. In my own defence i would say that to alot of men, some of the finer issues that women look for go completely over our head at times!

 

Anyways, i think part of the process for you is to stop getting frustrated about the other person's thoughts, actions and emotions - if anything you need to go in the opposite direction and be completely focused on yourself.

 

Im going through exactly some of the same things right now... a day at a time its getting better though.

 

Hope that helps.

[RoboHobo]

Yup, popvix is right. You need to hold your head up and carry on with your life. You sound like a really great person and you can certainly do better, I'm glad that you realize that. It's extremely hard, we all know that, but if he was effected so little by all this it doesn't seem likely that he will change anytime soon. Spend time with the people that treat you the way you deserve, it will help you to move on without the guy who took you for granted.

[jw32802]

Kate your situation is IDENTICAL almost to mine. I respect you for cancelling and realizing how he wronged you and just DONT CONTACT HIM. go out w/ this other guy! He will regret it and come crawling back

[jw32802]

Oh and believe me, ive done that where my EX says "i cant do this anymore " on a text but he does it just to find out what im going to say. I throw him off by saying what your ex said, i was like "i know you are right, we are better off apart" and 3 days later he texts me flipping out saying "its so easy for you to break this off!!!!" i said "you were the one who said you cant do this anymore". he said he just wanted to see my reaction

[popvix]

jw32802 - sounds like the person doing that has some kind of rejection issues with themselves, and has to take the person they are with to hell and back to "test" them - anyone who can have really awful things said to them and who still comes back will pass the test in their eyes.

 

As someone who's done that before in the past to other people (yeah i can admit that) its easy to spot others doing it.

[Kate]

wow thanks guys. yes, all of this is just puzzling to me. i AM a really great person!!! and a great friend. and i think my biggest issue here has been questioning yourself. when someone takes you for granted, that is a slow death for a human being...and it weakens you to the point where you actually start wondering if your flaws are MAJOR ISSUES instead of just regular flaws! mine are so minor, and i am a communicator -- he is not. what made this all so hard is that he SEEMED so genuine...straight forward...and unaffected. i thought it was ME who was nuts, playing games, etc. everything just went over his head...until he felt he didn't have control anymore.

 

the thing i didn't do with him was draw boundaries -- but the way i see it, you draw boundaries in your life for work, etc. -- i dont want to HAVE to draw them for the person i will be with exclusively. i'd almost rather find out the hard way like this, because then i know for sure that they would have stepped over them if i hadn't drawn them -- and he did. other guys, friends, that i don't draw boundaries for draw them themSELVES -- and therefore don't take me for granted. you shouldn't have to potty-train people to respect you, it should be instinctual.

 

although i now know he is intrinsically wrong for me, i'm still a little weak in the sense that i would take pleasure in him crawling back...but wouild not take him back. i now realize that if i was going to do that that i would NOT have cancelled our trip this weekend. i like what jw said about "he will come crawling back". my ex is such a poker faced guy, you can never tell what he is thinking...and he has SO much pride, i don't think it's in him to come back...but he suprised me before when he did it. so sad that i have/had to play a game to keep him interested. that's insane and a big red flag indicating a totally unevolved person...ooooh i wish you call could know me and then know him -- you would tell me it's a no-brainer!! and i don't suffer from self-esteem issues -- just a condition where i think everyone has the same good and genuine intentions i do. i should know better, i am in sales, have travelled the world and lived in one of the US's sin cities for 2 years!! go figure.

 

thanks guys -- and can you elaborate more about the time/likelihood he will "come crawling back"???

[KaiaMahina]

Kate...

 

It seems to me that you have better things to do than worry about how long it takes for him to come crawling back. Crawling, by its very definition, is a damn slow mode of locomotion!

 

You've realized so much...crowd the limits some more. You know what's it like to be treated as a woman dreams to be treated, thanks to your friend. Do you think that all happened by accident, or is "the universe" trying to gently tell you something? You also know (hurrah!) that you deserve to be treated in that fine way. It's like tasting champagne...once you taste it, tap water is just tap water!

 

The problem with your ex is probably something quite beyond his perception or his ability to change. It's like being color blind. No matter how long you try to explain the color red to him, he won't see it. He can't see YOU the way another man will be able to see you. The way your friend saw you.

 

You have only two options, as far as I see. Which is one more than some others have, so cheer up! You can either accept the fact that your ex will never genuinely share with you, understand you or treat you the way you need to be treated to be happy. Take what he can give you, realize that's his best and that he's probably not withholding anything from you, and be content with you.

 

Your other option is to let him go and let yourself be open to the kind of love and intimacy that you are capable to giving to another person. Maybe "the universe" wants to give that to you, but your hands are full right now. You have to put something down in order to pick something else up.

 

And sadly, in my experience, I've been dumped three times in my life. I have no data on #3 (as that just happened less than a month ago), but the other two did indeed come "crawling back." Twice each (yes, each of then dropped me twice). And though the time spans varied from one week to 2 years, the one constant was...by the time they got a clue as to what they had lost, I didn't want them anymore.

 

As a dumpee, you're doing a lot of soul searching. You're actively engaged in trying to understand what the hell has happened. Was it you? Was it him? Was it this, was it that? And while you're doing all this, you're learning and discovering and inevitably transforming yourself. You are a different person now than when you split. If anyone had told me the day would come when the person I loved so much and who left me would return and I wouldn't care one way or the other, I would have laughed in their face. But it happened. Twice.

 

I think that dumpers go on "auto pilot" after the deed is done. They feel they have made a decision, and they've done the right thing, and they go on with their lives, sometimes with relief. But sometimes, and I say sometimes, they suddenly "wake up" and realize something is wrong and want back what they threw away. In the meantime, you've been forced to transform or emotionally die. And so you transform. And when they come back, sometimes they're the same person. But you're not.

 

Don't watch the clock, Kate. He's color blind and you're composed of all the colors of the aurora borealis! Seek out a man who can see you, and appreciate what he sees.

 

Best wishes...KM

[Kate]

very well put. thank you.