Guilt is killing me...

[ron74]

Hello. I'm going through a rough time and came across this site, seems to be a lot of sage advice on offer.

 

I've been married for eight years, with my wife for over twelve years, we have two kids and another due in a couple of months. I have never even come close to so much as kissing another girl since the day I met my wife. To say I am a content person with a very happy family life is an understatement.

 

I don't go out that much drinking. Socialising is usually dinner with friends, or occasionally going to a gig with friends. A couple of days ago we had a team-building social evening at work. Against my usual habit I stayed out pretty late with a few people, one of whom was a younger girl (22, I'm 38) who was working with us for a few weeks and it was her last day. I'm generally a pretty friendly guy, but out of the blue while talking to her at one point late on she reached over and kissed me on the lips. I pulled back and tried to laugh it off and she was extremely apologetic and embarrassed. I should have left but I didn't. About an hour later she followed me out to the bathrooms and waited for me. She made another pass, this time I didn't push her away and we kissed for maybe 20 seconds. I guess that while I was not interested in "cheating" at all, I was a bit flattered that a younger attractive girl would have been interested, and I suppose having not kissed another girl in so long I temporarily stepped outside myself. The alcohol probably didn't help on either side, but that's not an excuse. I snapped back to reality when I realised what I was doing and walked away. I'm pretty sure that the three other people from work who were there know what happened, I suppose one of them may have seen it. I left for home straight away.

 

Two days later I'm absolutely racked with guilt. What kind of complete #$%@ would do something like that, with a pregnant wife at home and two kids. I'm trying to persuade myself that it wasn't a HUGE thing, and it wasn't initiated by me, and I honestly never would initiate anything like that, but I don't know, it doesn't seem to be helping.

 

I thought about owning up, but all I picture is my wife assuming it is something bigger than I tell her it was, no matter what I say, and it causes some terrible problem with our marriage. That's my main concern. A secondary concern is that people in work think I'm a dispicable person. Honestly I really am not. I'm probably the most loyal husband I know (until now, I know). The guys in work who have girlfriends and fiancees go out on the town often and usually have stories about meeting girls. I have vowed to never even put myself in a position like that again (not that I ever really did anyway), but my problem is what do I do now? I don't think I should tell my wife as I don't want to upset her and I know it was a momentary lapse of reason which I will never ever do again. I don't know if I should try and clear the air with the people in work, I don't want them thinking I'm something I'm not, spreading the story around and having everybody think badly of me. If my wife ever came with me to a work function I'd be terrified somebody might, in a fit of pity, tell her about what happened. I know that sounds like selfishness and self-preservation, but all I really want to protect is my wife and family.

 

So firstly, am I just over-reacting completely? I'm incredibly ashamed, and have had to go off on my own a couple of times when I've felt tears coming when I was with my wife and the kids. Unfortunately I can't rewind time and just make myself go home that night. I really want to forget all about it and spoil the crap out of my wife for the foreseeable future. I don't even know if most people would consider this cheating or not. Twenty seconds of madness is what will always be to me. No sex, no affair, not even a nights worth of kissing, just one brief kiss with a girl I barely knew who I will never see again.

 

Can I just try to erase it from my memory? Is there any way it might be a better to tell my wife? Should I clear the air with the people in work who know about it?

 

Thanks for the advice.

[road]

Yes you should of went home after the first kiss.

Yes you should of not kissed the girl the second time.

 

Though the girl made both advances, she was the aggressor, you got caught off guard, first time this happened in your marriage.

 

You have learned about maintaining boundaries. One rule is that you don't go out to a bar and drink with young atractive women. Maintaining boundaries is what keeps you off the slippery slope.

 

I normally say a WS must confess to their BS, but a peck, followed with you being stalked outside the men's room for a 20 sec kiss, has me conflicted.

 

What I will say is you must go NC with this girl. If she is to come back to work you must find another job. Tempted twice she got you to go further each time.

[GLDheart]

Tough situation. You DID break her trust. She trusted that you wouldn't do that but she also trusts that you would tell her. Now you're holding that next layer of trust in your hands... you can betray that too or you can honor your commitment. It's your choice.

 

After everything I have been through myself, I would tell. "Honey when I was at that party a girl kissed me. I stopped her and I then left. When she did it, at first I was flattered but immediately I thought of you and came home. I don't want her. I want you."

 

Your wife will have plenty of questions. Was she pretty? Was she better than me? Was she... blah, blah... Answer these questions honestly. For these questions, you might as well be on tape because the answers will sear into your wifes mind forever. The way you handle this will determine wether she believes you or not. Cover up a little... lie a tiny bit... and she will sense it and that seed of doubt will be planted. If she doesn't trust you, you might as well have screwed the other girl. The damage will be done. TRANSPARENCY AND HONESTY IS THE KEY!

 

Or, take it to the grave, avoid bringing your wife around your work people FOREVER, and live in fear that someone someday will spill the beans.

 

Like I said, from my experience, it's best to just tell your PARTNER (it's you guys against the world right?) and let her trust that your account is the truth.

Edited August 19, 2012 by GLDheart

[BetrayedH]

What so many wayward spouses fail to understand is that the lying is a thousand times worse than the act itself. You were human and made a mistake. If you confess, it won't be fun but your marriage will survive and in fact, be stronger because you willingly disclosed your mistake. You voluntarily make yourself vulnerable when you could have "taken it to the grave." She will stay with you and you'll need to repair the trust that you have damaged. Prove to her that you can be trusted now. Lying just proves that you can't be trusted.

 

By the way, if she discovers your dalliance on her own, your chances of reconciling go down by 50%. THAT'S what I would be afraid of if I were you.

 

You made a mistake. Don't make another one. The right thing to do is to confess, apologize, and make it right.

[BetrayedH]

By the way, you are most certainly the office gossip right now. People incorrectly think they have "secret" affairs all the time. In this case, you already know you're busted.

 

If you want to salvage your reputation, admit to your work friends AFTER you have disclosed it to your wife. That, they might respect. I don't see any damage control you can do while hiding it from your wife. What the hell would you say? I made out with another girl but it's ok because my wife will never know, ok?

 

You have to admit you are just protecting yourself. Man up. Accept the consequences and then treat your wife like a queen.

[GLDheart]

What so many wayward spouses fail to understand is that the lying is a thousand times worse than the act itself..

 

BetrayedH,

 

Your words hit home for me. In my situation, I didn't give a single thought to any particular details.

 

In fact, with soul crushing pain and anguish in my eyes, the last words (before going No Contact almost five months ago) I ever said to my ex were, and I quote "All I Ever Wanted From You Was the F*cking Truth!!"

[jolene2012]

Nobody should beat you up for attending a team building social event at work. That's not hanging out with the guys after work when you should be home with your spouse, that's doing the minimal social networking you need to be successful at a job. I'd really rather be home cleaning the toilet than having to socialize after hours with people from work, but even though I avoid the optional stuff, if anyone is implying it's a team building event, i suck it up and go and stay long enough to have a coke and be polite.

 

I agree with what LFH said.

 

And the next time you have to go to one of these things, at least ask if spouses can drop by and join the group or if that's not appropriate, text her a loving message while you're there and invite her to pick you up.

[Furious]

There's a book I recommend you read, it's called "Not just friend's" by Shirley Glass.

 

This book is a very thoughtful and practical read. It lays out realistic and common sense practicalities on the dynamic of the work place environment and the boundaries that are essential to balance your career and marriage.

 

I believe to should talk with your wife and you will be surprised that this may bring you closer rather than tearing you apart.

[Radu]

How far along is she ?

[BetrayedH]

BetrayedH,

 

Your words hit home for me. In my situation, I didn't give a single thought to any particular details.

 

In fact, with soul crushing pain and anguish in my eyes, the last words (before going No Contact almost five months ago) I ever said to my ex were, and I quote "All I Ever Wanted From You Was the F*cking Truth!!"

 

The details of my wife's affair were god-awful but finding out that she was still lying about them all thru the reconciliation made it impossible for me to save the family. Up until then I just wanted to forgive her. Anyone can screw up and some find themselves so deep in the rabbit hole that their only hope is a forgiving BS. That's a good time to stop serving sh/t sandwiches to the BS.

[oldshirt]

The question you need to ask yourself is are you wondering if you should tell your wife because it will benifit her and make her feel more trusting and secure and content?

 

Or are you wanting to tell her in an effort to ease your own guilt and your own inner conflicts and turmoil?

 

In other words how will telling her benifit HER vs how much of it is just wanting to ease some of your own burdon and cover your own @$$?

 

People are going to facevarious temptations their whole life. Your hormones, attractions, need for attention and validation etc do not go away the moment the ring slips on the finger.

 

Your wife has probably had a moment or two of "the rush" too when some tall, handsome dude has made a play for her. If this exact same thing had happened to her would you want her to run home and tell you all about it so she can relieve some of her guilt and cover her tracks in case that one in a million chance that a coworker might rat her out????

 

Here's the thing, that part of you that does want to know if she did it or not would want to know for this reason - you would want to know so you could determine if she is really a cheating slut deep down and you would want to know in order to determine if you want to stay with her or not.

 

Otherwise all that information would do is cause you pain and distress and worry and anxiety and cause you to lose trust and respect in you can cause you to lose security in your relationship. ......But in reality would that knowledge benifit YOU in any way?

 

So here's how I see it, you were out living it up having a good ol' time socializing. You were having a few drinks and getting a little less inhibited. A young, attractive adult female in her peek of fertility and desirability made a play for you and you enjoyed the attention and "the rush" of having a hot chick find you attractive and it took you 20 seconds to get your grip and do the right thing.....but you DID do the right thing.

 

Will telling your wife about that 20 seconds benifit HER in any way and will it benifit your relationship in any way????????? I don't know and don't have the answer, I'm asking you.

 

Will telling her benifit HER or will it only help relieve some of your guilt and make it feel better for you while it makes her feel more stressed and anxious and question your relationship and lose respect for you?

 

Now if you were an actual cheater and someone who was actually incapable of being faithfull I would look at it differently. but as this is a one-time, 20 second thing, I think you have to ask yourself if telling her about it is actually going to benifit her or benifit your marriage in any way.

[oldshirt]

What so many wayward spouses fail to understand is that the lying is a thousand times worse than the act itself. You were human and made a mistake. If you confess, it won't be fun but your marriage will survive and in fact, be stronger because you willingly disclosed your mistake. You voluntarily make yourself vulnerable when you could have "taken it to the grave." She will stay with you and you'll need to repair the trust that you have damaged. Prove to her that you can be trusted now. Lying just proves that you can't be trusted.

 

By the way, if she discovers your dalliance on her own, your chances of reconciling go down by 50%. THAT'S what I would be afraid of if I were you.

 

You made a mistake. Don't make another one. The right thing to do is to confess, apologize, and make it right.

 

Let's keep this a little bit grounded in reality here. This was not an affair, this was not a sexual encounter, he didn't bend her over the desk at work and put it to her and he is not an adulter.

 

If this was an actual affair or if he was in love with this little hussy and if he had had actual sex with her, then yes it is probably something that would need to be addressed.

 

This was a young hottie making an aggressive play for him (inappropriately so, I must add) and he lingered an extra 20 seconds on a fully-dressed kiss in a public place before he broke it off and walked away.

 

Is allowing a 20 second adultry?? Is it cheating? Does it show a pattern of behavior for Ron? Does this show that Ron is a philanderer and is going to be cheating on his wife? Does it show that he is going to place his wife and her unborn child at risk for STDs?

 

Is it really lying that he enjoyed a 20 second kiss that was sprung on him before he broke away and walked and then didn't tell his wife about it?

[oldshirt]

.

 

Or, take it to the grave, avoid bringing your wife around your work people FOREVER, and live in fear that someone someday will spill the beans.

 

 

I really don't think that is a very realistic threat. Unless someone is a total meddling psycho and think the chances of anyone saying anything to his wife is infantesimally small. A 20 second kiss by the bathroom of a bar? How much do you think anyone actually saw? It was group of people from work living it up for an evening, how much do you think anyone actually care?

 

Besides he walked away and it was over, it's not like the spent the rest of the evening sitting in a corner booth holding hands and making kissy-kiss the rest of the evening.

 

IMHO he should do the exact opposite and DO bring her to as many work functions as humanly possible (and I realize with small kids and a baby that may not be feasable) for these reasons.

 

-it would pretty effectively eliminate anything like this happening again.

 

-it would show the rest of his coworkers that he isn't an office shark and that he includes his wife in his off-duty social functions.

 

- It would give the staff the chance to get to know both of them as a couple and see how well they relate to each other and get along.

 

I could go on but I think y'all get the point.

[ron74]

Thanks eveone for the help and comments. Thank you particularly oldshirt, you really hit the nail on the head for me. Whatever I do I want it to be for the benefit of my wife and kids, not me. I think owning up might make me feel a bit better (I feel like the scum of the earth at the moment). I think all it would do for her would be to upset her and sow the seeds of future doubt. Do I want her petrified every time istep outside the door without her by my side? No. Not for the sake of this. With the guilt I'm feeling over this 20s kiss I at least know I could never live with myself if I ever did anything worse, and by God I will NEVER be in a position where something like that might happen again.

 

Work social outings are important where I work, but there is absolutely mo need for me to stay out that late or drink that much. I'm not 21 anymore, bit I think when you work hard and have a busy family life sometimes you just want to have that odd carefree night again. For me that's maybe once or twice a year. My wife actually goes out drinking with the girls far more than I do (pregnancy time excepted of course).

 

Anyway, at work nome of the three people who were there have acted like anything untoward happened at all. I don't know, maybe if I start to feel better in a day or two I'll just let it go, and chalk it down to a life experience that will never be repeated.

 

THanks again for all the comments, they really help.

[BetrayedH]

Let's keep this a little bit grounded in reality here. This was not an affair, this was not a sexual encounter, he didn't bend her over the desk at work and put it to her and he is not an adulter.

 

If this was an actual affair or if he was in love with this little hussy and if he had had actual sex with her, then yes it is probably something that would need to be addressed.

 

This was a young hottie making an aggressive play for him (inappropriately so, I must add) and he lingered an extra 20 seconds on a fully-dressed kiss in a public place before he broke it off and walked away.

 

Is allowing a 20 second adultry?? Is it cheating? Does it show a pattern of behavior for Ron? Does this show that Ron is a philanderer and is going to be cheating on his wife? Does it show that he is going to place his wife and her unborn child at risk for STDs?

 

Is it really lying that he enjoyed a 20 second kiss that was sprung on him before he broke away and walked and then didn't tell his wife about it?

 

I didn't call his actions an affair. And yes, hiding it would be lying about an extended kiss with another woman, which is a pretty serious problem in a marriage. Don't think that's a "real" problem? Ask his wife what she thinks.

[BetrayedH]

I really don't think that is a very realistic threat. Unless someone is a total meddling psycho and think the chances of anyone saying anything to his wife is infantesimally small. A 20 second kiss by the bathroom of a bar? How much do you think anyone actually saw? It was group of people from work living it up for an evening, how much do you think anyone actually care?

 

Besides he walked away and it was over, it's not like the spent the rest of the evening sitting in a corner booth holding hands and making kissy-kiss the rest of the evening.

 

IMHO he should do the exact opposite and DO bring her to as many work functions as humanly possible (and I realize with small kids and a baby that may not be feasable) for these reasons.

 

-it would pretty effectively eliminate anything like this happening again.

 

-it would show the rest of his coworkers that he isn't an office shark and that he includes his wife in his off-duty social functions.

 

- It would give the staff the chance to get to know both of them as a couple and see how well they relate to each other and get along.

 

I could go on but I think y'all get the point.

 

I think you need to get a grip on reality. He's going to bring his wife around all these coworkers and they'll think he's a great guy with a great family?

[BetrayedH]

Thanks eveone for the help and comments. Thank you particularly oldshirt, you really hit the nail on the head for me. Whatever I do I want it to be for the benefit of my wife and kids, not me. I think owning up might make me feel a bit better (I feel like the scum of the earth at the moment). I think all it would do for her would be to upset her and sow the seeds of future doubt. Do I want her petrified every time istep outside the door without her by my side? No. Not for the sake of this. With the guilt I'm feeling over this 20s kiss I at least know I could never live with myself if I ever did anything worse, and by God I will NEVER be in a position where something like that might happen again.

 

Work social outings are important where I work, but there is absolutely mo need for me to stay out that late or drink that much. I'm not 21 anymore, bit I think when you work hard and have a busy family life sometimes you just want to have that odd carefree night again. For me that's maybe once or twice a year. My wife actually goes out drinking with the girls far more than I do (pregnancy time excepted of course).

 

Anyway, at work nome of the three people who were there have acted like anything untoward happened at all. I don't know, maybe if I start to feel better in a day or two I'll just let it go, and chalk it down to a life experience that will never be repeated.

 

THanks again for all the comments, they really help.

 

It's easy after a heavy night of drinking to say, "Never again!" As if that approach ever works.

 

Do what you will. Enjoy lying for the rest of your life and pretending it is to protect your poor wife. Freakin' cheaters. All the same. Ridiculous justifications for piss poor decisions and more justification to continue them. Good luck with that.

[ron74]

BetrayedH, you've obviously had some issues in the past, but you also seem to be all about generalization and a one-size-fits-all solution to any problem ranging from a 20s kiss to an eight month love affair. I know who I am and I find your comments startlingly offensive, particularly as you don't know me from Adam. I won't comment any more, but I have beat myself up enough about this already, I could do without those types of attacks on my character, I didn't come here for that. Thanks to everybody else for the constructive criticisms and advice.

[ron74]

Incidentally, I take full responsibility for my actions, I don't blame booze and I don't blame the girl. I'm a big boy and there were things I could've/should've done to avoid this.

[woinlove]

ron, I think it depends on what kind of M you have and want. If you want a lot of intimacy, you should consider discussing this. The future is unpredictable. One day your W may end up kissing someone or something equivalent to what you did, feel bad, desire intimacy with you, and so confide in you. To discuss her indiscretion while keeping your own secret creates a distance and she could wrongly interpret that. On the other hand, to confess then, well after the fact, will definitely destroy some trust as she has to wonder what other things you decided not to discuss. I just use this as an example, but in general, keeping a secret that you think could matter to your wife works against building intimacy and trust.

 

For myself, I use the rule if I am hesitant to tell my H because of his possible reaction, then I know I need to tell him. I am confident we will discuss in depth as needed to come to an understanding. We love each other and accept each other as we are and prefer to have the real version of each other. We each know the other doesn't want to disappoint or hurt us, but sometimes we do and we both learn from that. For us, discussing things we wish didn't happen has brought us even closer and deepened our trust and intimacy and understanding of each other. Your M may be different and if you are not confident you can discuss this and resolve it together, but are confident that you have the M you both want, your approach may be different.

[BetrayedH]

BetrayedH, you've obviously had some issues in the past, but you also seem to be all about generalization and a one-size-fits-all solution to any problem ranging from a 20s kiss to an eight month love affair. I know who I am and I find your comments startlingly offensive, particularly as you don't know me from Adam. I won't comment any more, but I have beat myself up enough about this already, I could do without those types of attacks on my character, I didn't come here for that. Thanks to everybody else for the constructive criticisms and advice.

 

You're at a crossroads. You can either choose to live an authentic life with an authentic marriage at the center of it or to start down the slippery slope that Ducksoup more eloquently described. It is admittedly frustrating to see someone at a redeemable/forgivable place where honesty could bolster your marriage but dishonesty is chosen instead.

 

As for the severity of your indiscretion, it's either a big deal or it isn't. If it isn't, you should have no problem telling your wife. If it is a big deal, you should definitely come clean with your wife. You can't have it both ways (it's not an affair, so I don't need to tell her AND it's such a big deal that it would hurt her too much to tell her). That's just lying to yourself. Ultimately the opinion that matters is that of your wife. But you're deciding she doesn't have a right to know or to decide on her own; somehow your judgment is best.

 

How would you feel if you saw your wife in an extended kiss with another man and then she tried to never tell you about it? Would you care about her rationalizations that she knew she would never do it again? Or perhaps you would start viewing her as a cheater and a liar? Conversely, what if you saw it and she immediately confessed when she got home that night? Would you view her differently?

[BetrayedH]

Incidentally, I take full responsibility for my actions, I don't blame booze and I don't blame the girl. I'm a big boy and there were things I could've/should've done to avoid this.

 

Herein lies the problem. You're not taking full responsibility for your actions. Unlike a "big boy," you're avoiding taking responsibility.

[standtall]

Good Lord..Ron, quickly run and get off this forum. You made a mistake and have realized it..learn and move on. Do not let the bitter, betrayed ones here talk you into burning down your marriage just so you can join them in misery. There is no absolute, one size fits all, type of answer for what you have done. Many couples have gone to their grave with bigger secrets than kissing some girl in a bar, and have lived out their lives happily ever after.You have to do what works for your marriage. If I were you, I would ask what the objective is...if you are determined to stay in your marriage and remain committed, then don't say a word...if you want out, then get out.

[woinlove]

Good Lord..Ron, quickly run and get off this forum. You made a mistake and have realized it..learn and move on. Do not let the bitter, betrayed ones here talk you into burning down your marriage just so you can join them in misery. There is no absolute, one size fits all, type of answer for what you have done. Many couples have gone to their grave with bigger secrets than kissing some girl in a bar, and have lived out their lives happily ever after.You have to do what works for your marriage. If I were you, I would ask what the objective is...if you are determined to stay in your marriage and remain committed, then don't say a word...if you want out, then get out.

 

Why put down other posters, assigning them labels that may not fit? This just detracts from the civility of the thread. I'm not a betrayed spouse, but for me, honesty and intimacy is very important in my M. My advice differs from yours, in that I think it depends on what level of intimacy and honesty ron wants in his M, and that he shouldn't necessarily keep this a secret just because he wants to stay married. It depends on what kind of marriage he has and wants. The thing about posting on a public forum is you are likely to get differing opinions. It is more useful to criticize the content of the posts if you feel so compelled, than to criticize or put down the posters themselves, which is what you just did.

 

My advice, ron, is to use your own judgement on which opinions have some merit. But note that not all people (maybe none) who say you should consider discussing this with your W are speaking out of bitterness, whether they have been betrayed or not.

 

As to whether your behavior is a big deal, I can only say in my marriage it would be a big deal and we would discuss it. I have an open M so our "rules" are different. For you and your W, it may not be a big deal. Either way, it may be useful to discuss, since if it is not a big deal, there is not much to discuss and that's fine, but you confirm it is not a big deal. If it is a big deal (to either you or your W), you have to decide how you feel about keeping a big deal secret from your W and whether that is the kind of M you want to have.

[Furious]

My assumption is that Ron might feel somewhat neglected. During pregnancy and while raising small children, the wife's primary focus often, and quite naturally, turns from the husband to the birthing and raising of the children. Wife becomes mom.

 

And Ron's feelings if he has them in this respect, might not be totally subjective. Either way he shouldn't be shamed for having such feelings. Placing shame on a man because he might feel neglected by his spouse just makes it that much harder to express such feelings, if he has them. Men are told by society that they aren't allowed to have feelings or that it's a sign of weakness to express those feelings, especially if they involve being insecure in the relationship. The man is supposed to "man up" and be stoic and pretend those feelings of insecurity aren't there. Result: Acting out in an unpredictable fashion, contrary to one's assumed ethics and morals, and not really knowing why it happened. Hiding it from one's wife. Etecetera.

 

Whether Ron knows it or not, whether he admits it or not, having a superhot 22 year old babe grab you in the bar and lay a 20 second tongue wrestle on a guy is going to send his self-esteem through the roof. Maybe if his wife was doing that kind of bolstering on a regular basis, rather than perhaps shaming

him for having feelings, this never would have had a chance to happen.

 

Subjective or not--if this is a possible source of the recent "acting out," then it needs to be addressed.

 

 

 

Neglect is a two way street.

 

Ron was at a bar, I don't believe this 22 year just threw herself at him, I figure there's probably been a lot of flirting at the office to get to the point

that she felt confident enough to kiss him.

 

Ron's wife was at home with 2 small children and pregnant with the third. I

don't think being at home with the kids was any where near as fun than hanging out at a bar, drinking and flirting the night away.

 

I would say Ron would have been the one who was neglected if he was at home with the kids and it was his wife at a bar locking lips with a hot young man.