jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 For those BW who believe in second chances.... Let's say your H left you for OW#1 when your kids were very small, but came back when it didn't work out with her and he missed the kids and you took him back. Then he had an A with OW#2, but you found out when it had barely started and he was still not sure he wanted to be in an A and you still had young kids so you took him back again. Then you found out that he got back with OW#2, was with her for several years, loved her and was talking about leaving you for her, but you still had a teen living at home and agreed to give the marriage another chance if he went to NC and did MC with you. If you later found out that NC didn't last more than a few months, the A with OW#2 started again after a few years and now he's been in love with the OW for half the time he's been married to you and actively in an A with her for at least 1/3 of the time you've been married, going back to her after ending it twice. Your kids are now grown up and retirement is approaching. Let's also say you're a SAHW, there are assets to divide and he would have to support you financially if he left in case that makes a difference. Is there any reason you'd forgive him for going back to the same OW a 3rd time and agree to stay in the marriage?
GLDheart Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 I know it's not, but I could only hope that's a hypothetical. Is there a reason "I" would forgive a remorseless serial cheater? Maybe, but I'd stay the hell away from them too. Would "You" forgive them? Probably, it looks like you've found reasons to forgive him for years.
onlynameleft Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 No i wouldn't take him back or want anything to do with him...i'm worth more than that. I suspect your worth more than this too!
eeyore1981 Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 What I don't get is why a woman would want to be with a married man with small children, especially one who keeps going back to his wife. Why would anyone waste so many years of their life on a relationship like that? 1
beenburned Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 jolene, The only reason he keeps cheating is that he has not had any consequences ,over the long marriage, for his actions. If you are a SAHW, you need to take the steps necessary to become independent. Go back to school to update your skills, find a full time job with health benefits, and start saving money to pay for a lawyer to divorce your H. Todays US divorce laws are mostly no-fault 50/50! Although there are 13 states in the US that are still fault states, adultery has to be proven before it affects the asset division or alimony. Alimony is usually limited to 3/4 years, in order for the non-working spouse to get a job with benefits.(laws vary greatly from state to state) In order to find out ahead of time what you can expect, get a free consultation with a lawyer.(usually 30 minutes or an hour) Most lawyers require a retaining fee of a lump sum up front before they will represent you in a divorce.
Author jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 To be clear, I'm not the BW. I'm asking what others think a BW would do in this situation: if she found out that the A with the same OW started up again after he promised to end it twice and lasted for many more years. If you think the BW would forgive him again, then what would be the reasoning?
OpenBook Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 If you think the BW would forgive him again, then what would be the reasoning? I would imagine she would hang in there to keep the perks of the M - financial security, social standing, fear of having to fight her own way in the world. I can't imagine any love left after all that cheating. But I could be wrong. We can only guess here. Only the BW knows for sure. 1
Author jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 I've put plenty of thought into why he reconciled in the past. I'm pretty sure I understand that. I've spoken with him clearly about what I need right now and he's making an effort to do those things. He knows in no uncertain terms that I'm not ok with this continuing on indefinitely as it is. It's not fair to anyone in the situation. I'm no longer living in limbo waiting for him to rescue me, I figured out how to rescue myself and any lingering doubts he may have had about if I was really going to leave should be settled. My D will be final within a month and he's within a couple months of completing some things that will free up some time for him to concentrate on making changes in his life. It's been 11 years since their last d-day. NC only lasted a couple of months and the A started back up 6 years ago. I can't imagine how she could continue on in the relationship if she found that out. But I couldn't imagine that she'd take him back last time, either. I think this time when she finds out (whether he tells her or someone else does), their M will have to end. But what if I'm wrong? I don't see how I could be wrong, but if anyone would know the answer to that, I would think it would be a BW.
BetrayedH Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 There are all kinds of reasons why a BS stays with a WS after repeated infidelity, just like there are all kinds of reasons an OW stays with a MM after repeatedly returning to or staying with his wife. The MM is the only one who wins. He gets both women doing whatever they can for him. What a huge ego boost. Keeps his wife and family. Keeps his piece of ass on the side. He's the winner. Of course, he's also an azzhole. I hope neither women win that prize. 2
beenburned Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 jolene, After Alice posted, I went back and read your story. You are a very LT OW whose MM refuses to leave his wife/marriage. They have had several d-days where he wanted to stay, and she let him. You stated in other posts they are nearing retirement age, and he works a lot to make sure they have enough money when he quits work. Based on not knowing your story before, I would like to change my previous answer to you. She should be the one to reap the financial rewards/and all benefits of their long term marriage!(definitely NOT YOU) I don't care if she is a SAHW/mother, she made him the success he is by her loyalty and devotion over her whole adult life. And how has he repaid her? By being a long term liar and cheater!!! She deserves so much more than him!! I hope she does find out the truth, no matter how, and takes his sorry a** to the CLEANERS!!
Author jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 In any case, the marriage will end if and when THE WIFE wants it to end. I understand that if the wife doesn't want it to end it probably won't. She has a lot of power to make him feel guilty and threatened. If she uses that power, she may be able to hang on to him and force him to end the A at least temporarily. My question is at this point does anyone think she'd be motivated to use that power to make him stay or if for any reasonable person this would be the last straw and they'd focus on just getting out and taking everything they can.
Author jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 I'm not trying to reap the rewards of his work at her expense. I'm not denying she has a right to half of the assets and to expect to be supported financially. I'm not in a position that being with me will make up financially for what he'd loose to her, but everything I have I'm willing to share with him and I'm willing to work hard to make up the difference of what he'll have to pay in alimony and what he'll have to give up. She would in no way be living in poverty if he left and I wouldn't want or expect that. And if he said he was in love with her and couldn't bear the thought of living without her in his life, I'd walk away from him. Both times he felt the obligation to try, I stepped back and tried to go on with my life even though it nearly killed me.
BetrayedH Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 I understand that if the wife doesn't want it to end it probably won't. She has a lot of power to make him feel guilty and threatened. If she uses that power, she may be able to hang on to him and force him to end the A at least temporarily. My question is at this point does anyone think she'd be motivated to use that power to make him stay or if for any reasonable person this would be the last straw and they'd focus on just getting out and taking everything they can. It seems awful that your relationship with him is entirely dependent upon whether she wants to keep him. I don't know how you could be ok with this but... I was going to say "Who knows?" what she will do. But the reality is that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Her trend is to keep her man. She's invested a lot into him. She may try to fix him yet again. I wouldn't coint on her handing him over to you. 2
SoleMate Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Jolene, just from the original post, I guess that you are OW#2 and you are looking for some shreds of comfort. I don't think it makes any difference if you're OW#1, OW#999, or anywhere in between. Rather than asking about what the BW should or would or might do, I would like to see you asking how you reclaim your own life and stop being a side salad in someone's marriage. I have my own definition of love. It says that a man who truly loves a woman, will never ask her to be his OW (or hit her or cheat on her or verbally abuse her or force her into prostitution or steal money from her or make crank phone calls to her or neglect her or....etc.). And if for some reason he ever lapses momentarily in this standard, he will do everything to acknowledge and correct it. 1
Author jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 Jolene, just from the original post, I guess that you are OW#2 and you are looking for some shreds of comfort. I don't think it makes any difference if you're OW#1, OW#999, or anywhere in between. Rather than asking about what the BW should or would or might do, I would like to see you asking how you reclaim your own life and stop being a side salad in someone's marriage. I have my own definition of love. It says that a man who truly loves a woman, will never ask her to be his OW (or hit her or cheat on her or verbally abuse her or force her into prostitution or steal money from her or make crank phone calls to her or neglect her or....etc.). And if for some reason he ever lapses momentarily in this standard, he will do everything to acknowledge and correct it. I'm trying to reclaim my life. I worked very hard to finally get in the position where I could leave H#2 and start my life over and while I want this A to turn into an open relationship more than life itself, I'm not willing to continue in this A as it is indefinitely. I don't believe he ever intended to put me in this position. Over the years he's gone through periods of feeling terribly guilty about putting me in this position and trying to encourage me to move on. He's never sabotaged any relationship I've ever had or tried to coerce me to cheat when I was (mentally not necessary legally) committed to another relationship. Many of the years of our time together when I was in relationships I wanted to be in were kept as friends where no inappropriate words or actions took place. Round 1, he was sure he was intending to stay in his marriage while staying as physically and emotionally detached as possible until his kids were old enough that there would be no custody battles and he was fighting hard with himself against getting involved in a relationship until that time. I was incredibly naive and didn't understand that internal struggle. Round 2, he was still struggling with the whole timing and guilt issue and he did tell her and make what must have been a halfhearted attempt to leave, but he must have come to the conclusion that he needed to actually try once more, do MC and actually talk before leaving and not just plan to ignore her as he had been doing for years. Round 3, he took his time transitioning back from friendship to romance until he was sure this is what he wanted then started taking actions to get things in order in preparation of leaving. There were many thing that happened in both of our lives to close family memebers that were beyond our control and more urgent than our relationship and I was in no position to demand that the A be brought out in the open and resloved once and for all.
mercy Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 I find your choice of a user name interesting. Have you talked with the wife?
Author jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 It seems awful that your relationship with him is entirely dependent upon whether she wants to keep him. I don't know how you could be ok with this but... I was going to say "Who knows?" what she will do. But the reality is that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Her trend is to keep her man. She's invested a lot into him. She may try to fix him yet again. I wouldn't coint on her handing him over to you. My relationship with him is not entirely dependent upon whether she wants to keep him. I truly believe he wants to be with me and I know that he has taken almost all of the steps he said he needed to take before he could leave. But I'm nowhere near 100% convinced that the next d-day will go smoothly or come as quickly as I want it to if I don't push the issue. She and I have both enabled this situation to some extent. If she begs or threatens or whatever it is that she does, it's entirely possible that he may feel like he "needs" to either actually try again or postpone things until he feels less threatened financially. I want this situation to be resolved once and for all. I don't want to walk away knowing he loves me and has made progress (although that progress has been punctuated with periods of temporary emotional pulling back that scare the hell out of me) and get involved with someone else only to have that relationship fail because I'm still in love with MM and end up back for round 4. That's not fair to any of us.
mercy Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 My relationship with him is not entirely dependent upon whether she wants to keep him. I truly believe he wants to be with me and I know that he has taken almost all of the steps he said he needed to take before he could leave. But I'm nowhere near 100% convinced that the next d-day will go smoothly or come as quickly as I want it to if I don't push the issue. She and I have both enabled this situation to some extent. If she begs or threatens or whatever it is that she does, it's entirely possible that he may feel like he "needs" to either actually try again or postpone things until he feels less threatened financially. I want this situation to be resolved once and for all. I don't want to walk away knowing he loves me and has made progress (although that progress has been punctuated with periods of temporary emotional pulling back that scare the hell out of me) and get involved with someone else only to have that relationship fail because I'm still in love with MM and end up back for round 4. That's not fair to any of us. The above in bold. Then resolve it. Why are you turning your life over to another human being? Why is what you choose for your life contingent on what another does? Are you not the master of your fate? Read this please. Invictus Out of the night that covers me, Black as the Pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears Looms but the Horror of the shade, And yet the menace of the years Finds, and shall find, me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll. I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. William Ernest Henley 2
Author jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 I find your choice of a user name interesting. Have you talked with the wife? No. I have some things that need attending to in my personal and professional life over the next month or so and so does he. He knows I'm not ok with things like they are and he now has a detailed list of what I expect him to do if he values our relationship. I need to give him some time now to work on those things. If he hasn't made an appointment with a lawyer by the first of the year, I'll have to make sure she knows what's going on so she can decide what she wants. Ideally, I'd like him to get things going by October, but if we run into the holiday season, I don't want to ruin the holidays for his adult children and the grandkids by them being in the middle of a nasty fight and whichever outcome occurs, I have no doubt it will be long and nasty. I've waited this long and it's going to be hard enough for them to accept me if this does work out, I don't need to be the woman who ruined their holidays this year.
Author jolene2012 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Posted August 19, 2012 So no more thoughts from anyone on if she'll try to get him to stay or go once she knows? Calculating probably outcomes and figuring out what I would do in each of the possible situations is how I cope with stressful situations.
mercy Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 So no more thoughts from anyone on if she'll try to get him to stay or go once she knows? Calculating probably outcomes and figuring out what I would do in each of the possible situations is how I cope with stressful situations. The only one we can know for sure what they're going to do is you. When you tell us. I can guess for a few minutes what she'll do. I will have to take into consideration what she has done in the past. I'll also have to assume that whatever she did in the past she may or may not do again. If they spend Christmas together, family and all, they'll reminisce on past holidays as we all do. They'll remember together with the kids and tell stories to the grandchildren. As you will with your family. So what will she do... Well I suppose she'll love him.
Furious Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 So no more thoughts from anyone on if she'll try to get him to stay or go once she knows? Calculating probably outcomes and figuring out what I would do in each of the possible situations is how I cope with stressful situations. I think if she finds out she will probably send him flying as she slams the door on him. I think you should tell her, give her the proof to back up you story. No more waiting and guessing, the ball is your court. 2
96nole Posted August 19, 2012 Posted August 19, 2012 If she's taken him back all the other times, she'll most likely take him back again. But really what it boils down to is that you hope she kicks him out so you can justify being the side piece for all of these years. If she leaves him you can feel better about yourself for not wasting all those years. This really is a sad situation for all. I don't think anyone can win.
beenburned Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 jolene, After reading your explanations of their different d-days, I think I understand what has happened in his marriage. It is VERY common for WS not to come forward with the truth in order to protect themselves from all the consequences of their actions! I'm guessing the wife has never had the whole truth in order to make an informed decision about her life!!! You said round one consisted of him deciding to distance himself from her and stay in the marriage for the children. Did he tell her about the affair with you? You said round two was when the kids were in HS and he made a half hearted attempt to tell her he wanted out. Again, did he tell her about the long term affair with you? You said round three he is now actively planning his exit this year. Again, I ask you, did he tell her about the long term affair with you? I think if this wife had the whole horrible truth of just what all her H has done over the length of their marriage, she would definitely kick him out!!! I still think based on his long term deceit she should take him to the cleaners! This wife has needed the truth her whole life, put her out of her misery by telling her, since he is clearly a coward for making her live a lie of a marriage for many years!!
Spark1111 Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 So no more thoughts from anyone on if she'll try to get him to stay or go once she knows? Calculating probably outcomes and figuring out what I would do in each of the possible situations is how I cope with stressful situations. Jolene, maybe she suspects and truly doesn't care. Maybe she likes the lifestyle, the marriage is good enough, and if you keep him satisfied in ways she doesn't want to anymore, than maybe absolutely nothing will change for him, for you and for her. Some marriages ARE like that, and as long as she turns a blind eye to his extracurricular activities while enjoying all the perks of marriage with less of the physical responsibilities...than I do not know if you can count on anything. Except yourself......and only you can decide when you have had enough, or want more, or will receive more from him or another man. I think you are giving her way toooo much power and he is allowing you to, when in reality, YOU have all the power over your own life.
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