Author grace1962 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Posted July 16, 2004 Good Morning and thanks again for your replies. After posting here and then reading your replies.. I am forced to see my MM in a new light. I have truly spent the last 4 yrs.. not letting myself think of the bad things. Oh don't get me wrong... daily I think of my parents. I mentioned this past yr. I moved out of the state my MM is in... and it was so I could be closer to my parents though I'm still about 8 hrs. from them... just in case.. maybe they might want to see me.. or need me. Last night I sat for a long time thinking.. after chatting back and forth w/ Mr. Spock... and I thank you for hanging in there w/ me. I realize my biggest problem right now besides the shock of accepting what's happening... is making myself believe just like Littleflowerpot just said "he chose to let you be destroyed instead of him and his WIFE." I feel like I'm rambling and jumping around.. but this past month has been really difficult because he's been gone alot (he calls, but its not the same as when I know he's there, if that makes any sense.) Vacations, meetings, etc.. lots of fun things.. and he accused me of being jealous. I denied it, but I guess I was/am. I can't afford a vacation. Every dime I had extra was put aside for when he and I could visit and the last few times we've visited.. he's had to help pay for my portion because I'm just going deeper and deeper in debt and I had to admit it to him. This is a man who bills his clients in the double and triple digits every month, yet when I have to say to him.. OK I can meet you in "XXXXX".. but I need you to help pay my ticket.. I feel so GUILTY having to ask him. Lord you have no idea how guilty I feel for not being able to "keep up". I am SO FU^&^ING Pathetic!!!!!!! This past month, I've heard atleast 10 times..sentences that start out.. "If you really Love me...." And then this bomb. "He realizes he's selfish, so our relationship needs to end." Yes, he's selfish.. but after everything's that's happened why should he be worried about that now? (I'm sorry to any lawyers out there." but their a VERY special breed and I'm not sure its always good.) Sorry. Last night I sat and asked myself and wrote it down on paper so I could see it.. He's leaving me cause he realizes he's selfish? OR is he leaving me cause he now realizes the position I'm in.. and knows it'll now cost him to see me. I think some of it too is because.. his vacations aren't over yet. Well like this coming week he's going to a conference.. and don't kid yourself.. the conferences he's goes too are nothing but a good time... and I guess if he dumps me now.. he can go have a good time and not worry... that's he's messing around on me.... I am so confused.. cause he says he wants to be good and fair to his wife. IF that is true.. then I guess that is wonderful.... but the more you guys make me think.. the more I realize.. nothing is going to change for them. Their whole lives revolve around their daughters cause they have nothing left in common but friendship and now their youngest is leaving home for college... and where will that leave them? No where... except he'll go on more business trips and she'll go visit her friends more which.. is what happens now when the girls are busy. God, I cant stand this.. no, I don't think he's going on this trip to be w/ another woman.. but if you met him.. you'd see what I mean when I say... he's so handsome.. and he's one of those men... who.. draw people to them.. do you know what I mean? We all like to be around pretty.. nice.. people.. and he is such a flirter.. is wonderful w/ words.. he's one of those men who loves to dance.. and he'll dance w/ every woman at the table... he loves to make people feel good.. especially women. I AM jealous because I wanted to go on this trip and he said no.. he'd be too busy. MR Spock, Clia I called a lawyer I have used.. that he doesn't associate w/ and I'm sure he'll call me back when he gets in this morning and I'll tell him everything. I have our business papers ready to fax over to him cause I'm sure he'll need to see our operating agreement, etc... I don't know if I can go thru w/ this part. I honestly feel at this point it will all seem vindictive on my part. I guess I need to wait and see what he says. I know I'm only fooling myself.. this lawyer will tell me exactly what you've each said in bigger legal terms I'm sure. I know my MM did wrong. The day I really knew and yes denied it in my head.. was after my parents found out.. he came into the office one day and literally passed out copies of this paper he had written saying he was NOT my attorney and if I felt I needed any representation I should go to someone else. That isn't exactly how it was written.. but I knew he was trying to cover his ass... cause he can't do business w/ a client. All I want is some security. I want to know if my dog "Grace" gets sick or my car breaks down, I can get them fixed. Just small simple things. I want to chance. I don't want to have to destroy him. This would. He would lose his WIFE.. maybe.. I imagine so. I don't think she's stupid. We almost became friends, her and I but once the affair started, I felt too guilty to be around her.. though he never had a problem w/ it... but he will lose his license or at least be reprimanded.. and that will ruin his professional name. A questions I asked myself last nite.. thinking about what MR. Spock said "it always get ugly when its money." If I do this to him.. what can he do to further hurt me? or my family? Can he? My parents are in their 80's now.. and this is the last thing they need. Yes, losing any money is not fun.. but the money I lost.. didn't hurt them financially. They are fine... but its not about the money to them.. its about what was done and how it was done..etc.. and I think you realize that. I'm scared.. I feel so alone. Monday when he calls .. I have to be ready to ask him for this money I need. I can't wait till after this next trip.. cause I have a feeling I'll lose it. I wish you were all here to help me. You have no idea how much I hate conflict. And now I'll shut up.. I'm sorry for going on and on.. it all just hurts so much. I think in his eyes I'm not good enough anymore and that just kills me..
Author grace1962 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Posted July 16, 2004 A little update. I just got off the phone w/ the lawyer. He feels my MM should be disbarred. He knows me a little as he's helped me w/ some other situations and he knows I will do anything to avoid hurting someone. He said he feels 100% certain just going and having a little chat w/ my MM will get the results I need. He said there is no way my MM will allow this to go to court. He feels my MM should not even be given that much .. as in a talk. He thinks a case should be filed immediately. I told him, I have to try and get him to help me between me and him.. and if that doesn't work... he can then go have a talk....... I think I'm about to fall apart. This isn't how it was supposed to be.
clia Posted July 16, 2004 Posted July 16, 2004 MR Spock, Clia I called a lawyer I have used.. that he doesn't associate w/ and I'm sure he'll call me back when he gets in this morning and I'll tell him everything. I have our business papers ready to fax over to him cause I'm sure he'll need to see our operating agreement, etc... Good! I don't know if I can go thru w/ this part. I honestly feel at this point it will all seem vindictive on my part. Grace, you were horribly, horribly taken advantage of. There's a reason why it is against the ABA Rules of Ethics for lawyers to sleep with their clients and or to involve themselves in situations where there is a conflict of interest. He was in a position of "power" and you were in a position of "weakness." He took advantage of that. IMO, he deserves to lose his license. Lawyers like him are what give lawyers in general a bad name. It's not vindictive of you to call him on his behavior. He did not act as a professional. The Ethics Rules are supposed to be strictly enforced -- if any lawyer finds out that another lawyer is acting in this manner, they MUST report it to the Bar Association or face punishment of their own. It wouldn't shock me in the least to hear that he had done this kind of thing to other people in the past. What he did to you is sooo wrong it makes my blood boil.
Mr Spock Posted July 16, 2004 Posted July 16, 2004 Ok. I don't know enough about legal stuff to offer you any advice-except that if you DO go for the "little chat" you may lose the element of suprise and give him time to hide assets.
Author grace1962 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Posted July 16, 2004 Over the years, I've kept EVERYTHING. I always felt it let me be closer to him... I realize now it can all be used to hurt him. We filed our last tax return for the company this year (He took care of that part) and the same accountant who does his personal did the companies. The last time I was there.. He handed me the file w/ out thinking I guess and told me to make a copy for myself ..if I wanted it. My original had already been sent to my familys accountant. He trusts me completly.. and doesnt realize his personaly was there and I made a copy of his too. Why did I? I feel it makes me seem bad.. I don't know why I did it.. but one things for certain, he handed me the file.. he cant say I stole it. I don't know if that matters or not. I told this lawyer I'll call him back on Monday after I talk to my MM. Plus, the amount I want.. is nothing compared to what he has. It wont hurt him. One thing that has me afraid.. is something Clia said.. a lawyer has an obligtion to report my MM to the bar. I could tell he is very very upset over what my MM has done... and I'm wondering now if he'll do this regardless of what I do.
Mr Spock Posted July 16, 2004 Posted July 16, 2004 Hon, you did all this because deep down YOU KNEW. Just like I knew, and most OW on here know, that they are being USED. Some push it down, down down deep into their subconcious, which is what I personally think allowed you to let this continue for 4 years. No one is perfect. You are certainly not innocent of the affair-but you were, and still are, in love. But it's not a healthy love, it's an obsessive love of wanting something you can't have. It comes so that your happiness and your good feeling throughout the day rests on contact from your MM. You can go out, and have fun with friends sure, but it's always resting on the back of your mind. This is going to rip his family apart (if it's known) but it is HIS FAULT. And you can be assured when you're done, his wife (if she's smart) will be picking the other pocket. People survive this kind of sh*t every day, and you can too. Be strong-do you want to be working this hard in 20 years? 30? Not able to afford to retire and pay basic bills and needs? Think of yourself. Any woman who gets on here and blasts you for being horrible and wicked and a tramp for sleeping with a MM can go p*ss up a rope. That's not even the issue anymore. After FOUR YEARS, it turns into something else.
Author grace1962 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Posted July 16, 2004 Thank you I found a letter online and maybe it'll help some OW or OM if they've just begun a relationship like this.. but it says a lot of what you just said. Who She Is She's the nicest woman you could ever meet; in fact, you might have met her. You might know her fairly well and you might like her a lot without being aware that she's sleeping with your husband. She is a nice woman, really. This is the only part of her life that can't be admired, that can't be examined, that can't be discussed out loud. It's the only part of her life for which she doesn't respect herself and it keeps her miserable, even when she's happy, because she knows whatever happiness she has is stolen and illegitimate. She's not a fool even though she knows she's acting like one. Or, she's not sleeping with your husband -- maybe you're single, maybe you have different relationships in your life -- and so this is a friend of yours, a woman you've come to consider a good and dependable part of your life. She's an elementary school teacher, a physical therapist, a pharmacist, a social worker, a bank executive, a swim coach, an engineer, a computer programmer. She's been your friend since junior high, your college roommate, your best colleague, your neighbor, your confidante, without revealing this part of her life to you because she suspects that even at your most understanding you wouldn't understand. You couldn't unless you've been through this and she knows you haven't. Or she thinks she knows you haven't but one thing she has learned is that nobody is exempt from the possibility of this happening -- if a person could claim exemption, she'd be first on the list. So she doesn't tell you, her best friend. You might judge her harshly or, even worse, stop speaking to her altogether and she can't bear the thought of losing you. She's already surrounded by the possibility of loss and will not add to it, even at the cost of not talking about the very thing that consumes her waking moments. Educated, polite and brought up by a loving family, she's not a particularly hot tomato or the kind of woman usually transported across state lines for immoral purposes. Attractive, fun, attentive and considerate, she is deeply committed to those she loves and that's one of the reasons this tears her apart, One of the things she loves about this man, after all, is the way he treats the ones to whom he is closest. Not her -- he can't treat her as if she were really in his life, after all -- but others. His real family, the inhabitants of his real life. If he were an emotional bully or an emotional slob, she wouldn't have been drawn to him in the first place. Those aspects of his life he betrays to be with her are the very parts of him she would never wish him to compromise. So she understands how divided he is, how he feels like a piece of meat being sliced up by a rusty knife, how he feels like he's drowning and suffocating and being eaten alive all at once. He, too, is a decent person, except for this business of loving someone he isn't supposed to love. Holidays are hard, but so is spring and so are winter nights, summer mornings and long, early-autumn afternoons. The phone is her lifeline and she has about 17 different ways of being reached in case some shard of time can be broken off and given to her. She'll take what she can get -- not in a way anyone would think of her, but in this case it's true. There are codes they use to communicate what can't be spoken or written; these were funny at first but over time they have be come as serious as a car crash. Maybe it ends when there is a car crash and they're in the front seat together, returning from a place where they never should have been, suddenly having to make up a series of lies to disguise what everybody around them now suspects is the truth. Even if they get away with it, the experience wrecks them, mangles what they had beyond recognition. Or, she goes to his kid's high school graduation ceremony and realizes that it's been 12 years already and that she could have had a kid herself by now, one in the sixth grade. Or it continues. Impossible nights, intolerable weekends, endless violations of everything she knows about how life should be lived, but they have loved each other for so long now, how can it stop? She starts to worry that he'll die of a heart attack and no one will tell her for days because why would anyone think to call and tell her an incidental piece of bad news about some guy she never knew very well? Or she starts to think about her own final moments. This is the worst. She can't believe this is her life. Nobody else would believe it either, even the man. It's a tough, rotten, exhausting routine. Nobody chooses it on purpose. This is not a defense of her: She knows better than you that what she's doing is indefensible. Don't ridicule her, and don't think you don't know her. You do.
ICantStopLovinHim Posted July 16, 2004 Posted July 16, 2004 WOW that letter was unreal.........*sigh* so true :(
Author grace1962 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Posted July 16, 2004 I wish I'd had read that letter 4 years ago... but 4 years ago.. I'd have laughed, because "I" would never do something like this. I keep thinking.. "Well it wont happen again!" But those words are useless. I hurt right now. I feel like I've been abandoned. I feel so pathetic. I cant function right now. I can't work, I cant sleep, I cant eat.. I sit and stare at the wall. My phone rings and I ignore it. What am I supposed to say? I dont want to pretend.. but I cant tell anyone. I want to get under my bed and never come out. I am so ashamed of what I've allowed to happen and what's happening to me now. I HATE WHAT HE'S DONE.. WHAT HE's DOING!!!!! How can he let me love him then just walk away? God I am so confused...... I dont want to feel this pain.
Mr Spock Posted July 16, 2004 Posted July 16, 2004 Please do not lose perspective on this pain. This is not life ending pain. You will recover. Please don't hide your rage either. One of the things that helped ME was actually TELLING people about my role in the affair. Lots and lots of people. Let us know what your lawyer says.
Author grace1962 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Posted July 16, 2004 I will let you know what happens after we talk Monday and between now and then I must figure out how to approach the issue w/ him in a way.. that he'll agree to what I want. And ME be able to do it w/ out fallling apart because somehow between now and then I must accept there is no going back. I guess feeling like a yoyo (emotions) is normal?
Mr Spock Posted July 16, 2004 Posted July 16, 2004 He's not going to agree to what you say. This is why you saved all those documents. This is why you're calling the laywer. Please know this. Spend the weekend doing something you enjoy that won't remind you of MM.
Author grace1962 Posted July 16, 2004 Author Posted July 16, 2004 There is always hope I have to make him understand it has to be this way. I know you think different. You believe in confronting and I admire that ability. I don't have that strength.. so I have to hope.... I don't want to hurt him cause I am afraid it'll destroy me completely.
Mr Spock Posted July 16, 2004 Posted July 16, 2004 You don't seem to understand-you don't have to confront him. You don't have to hurt him. That is why you pay lawyers.
Author grace1962 Posted July 17, 2004 Author Posted July 17, 2004 Morning I'm sure what I'm going to say will not sit well with you.. but I dont want to go to court. I don't want to have to point a finger at my lover. I dont want to ruin anyones life. I just want some security. That is what I meant by hope. That the man has enough sense to realize on his own regardless whether a laws been broken.. that I need help. Yes, I am a tad angry right now .. cause its apparent .. my situation that is.. and so why hasnt he offered to help me? Thats what I'm angry over.. someone who says they care... and yet he's willing to walk off and leave me in this situation. Then there is my parents. Somehow I have to find a way to tell them the whole truth and I don't know if they'll ever understand or even give me the chance, but I'm thier daugther and I need them to forgive me. I love and miss them so much and every day I live w/ the fear that something will happen to one or both of them before I get that chance. And the more I think of that now... the more angry I get.. cause my MM knows all of this............. sigh.. there are so many emotions going thru me right now.. I don't even know what to say. I'm so sorry for all of it.
milly Posted July 18, 2004 Posted July 18, 2004 Grace, This man is a con artist plain and simple. Get a good lawyer and get back the money he stole from your company. Get him out of your life and your heart for good before he does even more damage. If he cared for you even in the least, he wouldn't have taken more than was his fair share etc. in the first place, not to mention sleeping with a client. He used you plain and simple. Forget him, his wife, his family, any harm that comes to them or him is his problem from now on, think about yourself and your own family for a change. Good luck.
Author grace1962 Posted July 18, 2004 Author Posted July 18, 2004 Thanks Milly for replying. I feel like I opened a can of worms on here, but I DID get my question answered and do feel I am owed some type of security.. and as soon as Monday gets here, I'll start dealing w/ it. I needed someone to confirm it is not just vindictive on my part. I feel like all of that now.. is the EASY part. If that makes sense. The hard part is dealing w/ the loss. It's like someone abruptly dying.. yet their not dead. I have read so many of the post on here... and what sickens me is how I "felt" ... the words I used to describe our relationship.. the words he used... "Incredible, exciting, I feel like he's my soul mate, how close we are..........the sex is like nothing I've ever experienced..." the list just goes on and on. Like one post said.. Will I compare this to the next single guy I meet? Will it live up to that excitement? (At least it'll be REAL.) Not that I have ANY interest in meeting anyone. I just kinda feel like a fool. I am 41 and he was the 4th relationship I've ever had. I thought it was "different" ... even HE said it was different... one of a kind.... but I realize... all he has to do is pick up another woman today.. who isn't his wife and he'll be feeling that thrill again........ I feel so ashamed, cheap.... and god almighty how it hurts! As soon as I can get some sort of money.. I am going to use it for some intense therapy. I need to know why I allowed it all to happen. Then somehow I have to find a way to face my family... Somehow.. I am going to get thru this.
milly Posted July 18, 2004 Posted July 18, 2004 Grace, I'm sorry for all the pain you're going through, and the loss you feel, it will be very difficult to get through, but let your family help you, they will be there for you if you let them. Just keep reminding yourself that he has/had no feelings for you whatsoever, he just took advantage of the feelings you had for him to use you. I'm really sorry you are going through this, it sucks that there are so many people like this in the world. I hope that when you get through this and get some therapy, you will meet someone that you can care for again, and maybe much more exciting who will really care for you.
Author grace1962 Posted July 19, 2004 Author Posted July 19, 2004 I need to chatter. I am very nervous about tomorrow. At best, it'll be last decent (at least at first) conversation I have w/ my MM. I hate it might get ugly. I hate even more knowing it's going to be over. For some reason it scares the hell out of me. I'm a basket case. I'm sorry.. i just don't know what to do w/ myself right now. I'm not accomplishing very much........ i'll hush!
Author grace1962 Posted July 20, 2004 Author Posted July 20, 2004 Hi Everyone.. I am supposed to receive one of two checks tomorrow via Fed-X. I was going to wait till tomorrow to post, but in case anyone is keeping up... its appreciated I spent a good 5 hours on the phone today w/ my MM and I'm completly drained. Afterwards I went out for the first time to a friends and I never said anything to her about whats happening, but it was so nice to get out and drink a little wine...but he IS going to give me the money I asked for. I never had to threaten him. I'll know in the morning is he's telling the truth and I think he is. He seems so sincere... but after coming on this forum. God you all opened my eyes like you can't imagine to so many things!!! and.. I now doubt everything he says.. especially if he says something "kind". I feel very raw right now.. and tired right now.. and relieved... to a point. I havne't been able to sleep for worrying about today.. and right now I am going to bed and once FedX arrives tomorrow .. i'll post again. I cannot thank you all enough for talking to me.. and I know .. the emotional part is just starting for me... but the money part is important too........ but I plan to stick to my goal of some major therapy to try and figure out why I allowed this to happen.. not just the affair.. but the Company.... and finding a way to my family.. and Thursday I am going to another Doc I hope for some meds or something... has anyone else had to take that route temporarily? I can not deal w/ this feeling of helplessness. I cant get a thing done. Depressed....... I'm tired. Am sorry for rambling... Nite.......
Author grace1962 Posted July 20, 2004 Author Posted July 20, 2004 Fed-X just came. I dont really know what to think right now.
miz_barby Posted July 20, 2004 Posted July 20, 2004 I'm glad he is paying you back something hopefully it'll be close to what you lost from him using you! I hope you get to feeling better, xxanax can make you feel a lot less depressed and calm anxiety real well, a low form of course so as not to become addicted! I hope the 2nd check comes for you and things work out! Good luck!
Author grace1962 Posted July 21, 2004 Author Posted July 21, 2004 Hi little flowerpot.. how are you doing? I hope you and everyone has had a very good day! You have all been supportive and I feel selfish....and I don't mean to be.. I'd love to offer good advice to someone.. but I dont think I've figured it out myself yet. I've been making lists today.. of what I need to do to deal w/ this.. to get over my MM. Its like if I make these lists and follow thru w/ them.. I'll get him out of my system in no time.. and I have a feeling it wont work like that. Honestly.. I feel more like a yoyo! I am still shocked how easily he agreed to give me money... and the amount I asked for... but sadly I have a feeling... he's clearly thought thru what would happen.. if I turned on him. I am VERY lery of beleiving him and not so long ago I felt he was the only person I could depend on. Tomorrow I go see a psyc... and hopfully it'll help and Thurs. I have an appointment w/ the doctor and hopfully I can get some type of temp relief so I can get out some. I went to the store today and caught myself staring at the floor.. like I'm afraid I'll see someone I know..... I feel so "imobile" and I feel so pathetic. I chatted w/ my MM today. He called to make sure I got the FED X.. and wanted to see how I was.. he said. He must have said 10 times how sorry he was that I was hurting. I was sitting there listening to him.. feeling so much anger.. like if you are so sorry..why are you hurting me?!?!?! but I never said it. And at the same time.. I wanted him.. (is that stupid or what?) I wanted him to take it all away and make it how it was.. I found myself telling him about hitting my breast on the car door.. and how my first thought was I wish he was there to kiss it better.. is that pathetic???? God I hate him for allowing me to grow so close to him.. so dependent on him! Why does this happen!?! Why did I say that to him? I actualy smiled when I hit my breast and caused it to bruise... cause i thought of him .. I think of him over everything. We have been thru so much together. The issue w/ my breasts is thier bigger than they were. I had breast cancer last summer and had a partial masectomy. Before surgery I was a small A cup and now I'm finally down to a C... when we decided on the masectomy.. my plastic surgeon.. and I decided I'd go up to a B cup... when they did the reconstruction... well let me tell you.. plastic surgeons dont know what A, B or C cups are.. they deal in CC's... I'll never forget when I woke up and was swollen larger than a D (they did get all the cancer but I freaked.. but my MM always loved them. HE was VERY supportive thru all that.. cause my family wasn't there... becuase of him.. how weird................. Anyway.. since then.. its always been a joke between us.. cause if you are not used to having breasts.. like I wasnt... beleive me thier heavy.. and they get in the way! but one advantage is you can wear shirts w/ darts I am sitting here smiling because as I write this to you.. I'm thinking of him.. and how loving he can be. Letting him "see" me after surgery.. how good he made me feel about myself cause its hard to lose a breasts... how he good he was too me........ He did so much that was wrong.. but he did do things that were right! BUT IT DOESNT MATTER NOW RIGHT? He no longer wants me.... and thats all that matters....... I'm sorry again for rambling...... I'm trying so hard to be tough. I'm going to survivie this! We all are!! We all need to know that. I bet I have 10 posty notes rround that say... I deserve better than this! We all do.
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