Is there a way back, if she says she loves the other man?

[icDude]

This is an exit affair. Her plan is already in place. Nothing you do will stop it.

 

I'm beginning to see that. She's trying to find a valid excuse for leaving. I've pointed that out to her.

[karnak]

And, here is my thought experiment, If my wife continues to get emotional support from this pansy and continues to have sex with me, can I deal with that?

I would love to get her emotional support, but isn't sex without all the emotions one of the greatest dreams of every man?

 

So do I accept this without question? No. But can I deal with regular sex for the next year or so until I get to a better financial plane? Maybe. And will she give me regular sex? Maybe. If she is really afraid of losing the stability of our financial situation. It could be a perfect union made in purgatory.

 

Sorry to say this, dude. But I think this entire situation has really messed-up your mind.

 

Please be careful. You risk losing a good deal of your sanity with this mess. Try to do things in a proper, healthy and dignified manner instead of turning them into a cheap, erotic novel.

[icDude]

Sorry to say this, dude. But I think this entire situation has really messed-up your mind.

 

Please be careful. You risk losing a good deal of your sanity with this mess. Try to do things in a proper, healthy and dignified manner instead of turning them into a cheap, erotic novel.

 

Mostly tongue in cheek in my last post. I have listened to what everyone is saying here, but in the end I must take one strategy and stick to it for a while and see if it works. For now I will use the LR technique I have described above. If this really is an exit affair then it won't make a difference, except that if she is trying to get me to lash out at her, the back off part will keep that from happening. And if divorce is inevitable than nothing I do really matters anyway, it just speeds up or slows down the course. And maybe I need to slow it down for my own sanity and my own stability.

[icDude]

Also,from what I gather end-game affairs are really rhe coward's way out. And since most end gamers are usually in an affair with other end gamers, they are both cowards, as I have previously deduced. They then want me to make the decision to end it or give themselves a better reason. In that case, I kind of like the idea of making them squirm for a while.

[icDude]

Also,from what I gather end-game affairs are really rhe coward's way out. And since most end gamers are usually in an affair with other end gamers, they are both cowards, as I have previously deduced. They then want me to make the decision to end it or give themselves a better reason. In that case, I kind of like the idea of making them squirm for a while.

[GLDheart]

All these games you describe make my head spin.

 

Sometimes the best way to win is to "refuse to play".

[icDude]

You are in denial and the outcome is predictable . . . because we've seen it here before.

 

She's setting the stage to end the marriage and will use your "anger issues" as her exit.

 

She will continue the affair right under your nose and show no remorse. You will try to control your anger and frustration, but at some point you'll have an outburst (minor or major) and THAT is when your wife will make her move and file for divorce. She needs a "valid" reason. She's counting on you to lose it, so she can file. That way the blame comes off her and she can spin it (in her head and to others) and justify leaving.

 

This is an exit affair. Her plan is already in place. Nothing you do will stop it.

 

Alice, if this is true than what can I do? Do I leave first? because that is what she would want me to do (cowards way out). Then she can say I left her. If I stay you think she will use my anger against me, but I am currently learning to control it, so I am not sure that will work.

 

Also I don't think she knows if she can make it on her own and this guy isn't ready to jump to the rescue.

 

I'm not in denial that my relationship is in a world of hurt. Nor will I deny that there is a good chance that it is completely over. I just want to do something about it. I am aware that we both had a part to play in this, and her heart has deserted me. I want to convince her somehow to work on this one more time. But I have little to go on. Except the understanding that our situation is the best possible outcome for both of us right now and for our future success and the success of our children.

 

Divorce will mean finacial ruin for both of us and greatly disrupt our plans for the future. Staying together just seems logical. And I am willing to make it work.

 

I know I am repeating myself. But this is the kind of advice I am looking for. Not, give up now, before ... well, before what? It's too late? Giving up makes it too late.

[FryFish]

look bud, the 180 is your ONLY hope at this point... She doesnt want you... partly because this new guy is "magical" and partly because you are THERE FOR HER... She cant miss you if you are there... Seriously, you have to initiate the break up... You do this AND you work on yourself... and you act like you dont give too much of a damn...

 

Best case scenario, she realizes what she is losing and puts in the heavy lifting this cheating bitch needs to put in to save your marriage... Worst case(or best case), you are already starting to move on from your cheating lady friend and find someone WORTH YOUR EFFORT!

[icDude]

look bud, the 180 is your ONLY hope at this point...

 

Okay so explain the 180?

[GLDheart]

look bud, the 180 is your ONLY hope at this point... She doesnt want you... partly because this new guy is "magical" and partly because you are THERE FOR HER... She cant miss you if you are there... Seriously, you have to initiate the break up... You do this AND you work on yourself... and you act like you dont give too much of a damn...

 

Best case scenario, she realizes what she is losing and puts in the heavy lifting this cheating bitch needs to put in to save your marriage... Worst case(or best case), you are already starting to move on from your cheating lady friend and find someone WORTH YOUR EFFORT!

 

What he said. Start moving on. If there's anything left that she wants she will come to you for it. If not, well... there's nothing you can do about that.

[icDude]

I have already started the process of moving on. She keeps saying she has a lot to think about. But I have stopped asking her questions. I no longer where my ring. She wears hers. I am seeking activities outside the home and I have been to a lawyer. Yes I could get the divorce papers in order. But until then we live in the same house and take care of our kids.

[icDude]

But in all honesty, I still believe my W is in a Split-self affair. 1) She fits the personality pattern; a hard childhood where she had to be the responsible one and thinks that happiness comes from making other people happy. This was derailed by me due to a negative attitude brought about by long term depression, which meant nothing she did made me happy. 2) the affair usually comes from childhood - This OM is her high school boyfriend. 3) She really doesn't seem to know what she wants - talks to this guy but doesn't want to leave, we continue to do things together that are just us.

Exit affairs can be similar, but usually the WS (still not sure what that stands for) really doesn't care anymore. That is not what my w behavior indicates.

[onthefence210]

For me, never. The "act" isn't some oopsy booboo that can be rug swept EVER. It is now part of that person now and forever.

 

It's like a Dog that bit you... sometimes you put the dog down... other times you just know forever that, yep, that's a dog that can bite. If you love the dog enough you just may add that into your new understanding of your dog. Maybe you can continue to live with that dog. But, you'll never quite look at that dog the same way. If, in the future sometime, things ever get uncomfortable again you will very quickly remember that day the dog bit you. It never goes away and can't be "seperated" out.

 

 

Is this your dog or someone else's dog? Can dogs be retrained? And if not, then why not give the dog away to say, maybe a farm where it can be free to roam and no chance of biting you again? I guess my point is: if u reconcile which clearly the OP is trying to get at...then when is it time for the BS to take responsibility for wanting to reconcile? If said reconciliation doesn't work, how in the world can the BS blame his/her choices on the WS for not working? You have this dog, u know it bites, you keep it knowing it's history, you discipline the dog with each bite, yet you have done nothing to solve the actual problem. The act of biting (discipline, fear it may happen again) vs why does this dog bite (can it be retrained, was it a defense based on its own fears, or is this dog just a nasty dog).

 

So I guess for me and I can only speak for myself after being a FWS and a BS...when I was the BS years ago, I was blamed for my H's cheating. He strayed because i tried to get to the root of our marital problems for years, tried to explain how his actions (drinking) affected his behavior (masked his pain). He couldn't face my feelings so he dismissed them by basically saying I am wrong. And eventually his action drinking lead to cheating because he had no idea how to feel his emotions nor accept mine because they were a direct reflection of his actions. That is what I mean by separate.

 

It took me until I had my A, and having people tell me some of the exact things that I see on here regarding a BS, that basically my feelings don't matter, it's a fog, an addiction and maybe it is but they are still my feelings. So to tell a person what they are feeling is no then saying you don't accept that person for who she is. And to me, that's twisting the reality. That to me is denial. So let's focus on the person and figure out...does this dog have a history of biting or does this dog have a history of being beat and lashed out?

 

People in A's are there for their own selfish reasons. I get that. I understand it is by no means the moral thing to do when you are married. I also understand that it's a choice for the BS to reconcile or not. But in order to understand the "act" you must also know the "dog". This dog did it for different reasons then my H. Same "act" but if the "behavior" doesn't change in my H...he will cheat again when he can't handle his emotions...just like he'll drink again.

 

You can't reconcile, living a fear based life, always waiting for it to happen again. To me that is a problem that many BS use to stay in control of a situation that honestly they have no control over. And that's what I mean by separating the person from the act. If you know your spouse and you know his behaviors, you know that things are getting uncomfortable...it's your choice to live in fear and expect cheating again but that's only because you stayed with a man that never addressed the real problems.

 

"you" in this post isnt u personally just in general.

[GLDheart]

You can't reconcile, living a fear based life, always waiting for it to happen again..

 

I can see how that is what you would take away from the analogy. But, it is not about fear. It is about awareness.

 

You talk about the "reasons" that someone can cheat. Well here's another analogy then: If you owned a little family store and someone came in and robbed it and shot and killed your son who was working the counter... would you care WHY they robbed it? Would you care that they did it for a rush, a gang initiation, or to feed a starving family?... NO. It is beyond you. You were just running an honest business and someone came in and shot that all to $hit. That is all that matters. THEY are f*cked up enough to damage you... the why is thier problem.

 

So if you want to coddle the cheater and retrain them and hold thier hand through it all.. fine. Not me. I loved (still do love in fact) my ex... but if she has some issue that causes her to need others attention WELL THEN I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO WALK AWAY. Call it tough love. Call it self preservation. Call it accepting reality. Call it whatever you want.... Staying with her is asking to get "bit" again.

 

/cue the carrie underwood music "... but the next time he cheats, it won't be on me."

[onthefence210]

In the majority of cases, they got more lies.

 

 

 

 

ANY truth. Usually cheaters in the aftermath of an affair aren't really capable of saying a single thing that is 100% truthful. And when a cheating spouse does decide to express a truth, they usually choose something, or say it in a way or with an emphasis or spin, that is intended to hurt the BS. "Blah blah blah BUT...."

 

Most WS's talk exactly like your post reads, to the extent they aren't 100% lying. A stream of consciousness pile of gibberish all designed to deflect moral responsibility for their cheating from themselves. Your entire post is a deflection, and I suspect you are either a cheater yourself or an OW/OM because of the tone of your post.

 

 

 

 

That's an obvious lie since it's simply not true. Further, you exaggerate by equating a BS's desire for the truth to physical violence against the cheater, which it's obviously not. This sort of emotional, sensationalistic, dishonest, truth-deflecting "framing" of issues is exactly what cheaters do most of the time, even when they think they are TRYING to tell the "truth."

 

 

 

 

No, hope that they change their ways since there isn't really a marriage where one of the partners has sex with other people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most WSs have no concern for "how does the marriage work." If they were concerned about that, they wouldn't have ever cheated in the first place.

 

The real problems start to get solved when the WS stops focusing on the WS's pain and remorse and start worrying about the BS's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The WS can discuss whatever the WS wants to discuss. Typically, since they are habitual liars, they don't.

 

The mistake you are making--a typical cheater's mistake--is the implicit assumption that the "feelings the WS had during the A" are more important than the WS's actions during the A.

 

That's what a lot of cheaters, maybe the majority do. They think that just because they have a feeling it justifies bad conduct in the marriage.

 

You loved your AP? So what? What does "feeling" love for an AP have to do with lying to and cheating on your spouse, which are actions, not feelings?

 

Cheaters create their own feelings. A cheater needs to admit that they had that feeling because they wanted to have it. That's the honest truth that few of them are ever willing to admit. They want to pretend that their feelings "just happened" and they had no control over it, just like they often want to pretend that the sex with the affair partner "just happened" and they had no control over that, either. Another unpleasant but real truth that most cheaters never ever seem to get to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, more cheater's mentality displayed right here. Basically this is a veiled threat that if the BS wants reconciliation the BS will have to accept as "truth" the WS's expression of vile "feelings", as if what the cheater "felt" during the affair--limerance for the AP, hatred and resentment for the BS--is some kind of objective "truth."

 

You aren't valuing objective truth for its own sake, you want to use a phony "truth" as a sledge hammer on the BS. That's a "truth" you probably didn't want to hear.

 

Do you know the difference between objective truth, independently verifiable, factual, vs. a subjective emotion you feel in an affair? Only a cheater would try to equate a subjective emotional self-generated affair feeling as a "truth" equivalent to how many times s/he had sex with the affair partner in the marriage bed, which is an OBJECTIVE truth.

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously no betrayes spouse WANTS TO be married to a cheater. And since we are talking about "truth" (you claimed you cared about it, obviously not really), how "in truth" do you "separate" what the person did in the past, from the person? Can you lobotomize the cheater and erase those memories and "truthful" affair feelings? You just got done going on about how important revealing the "truth" about the cheater's affair feelings is. So how all of a sudden, having heard that "truth," do you place the obligation on the BS to erase that "truth" from the equation?

 

This is exactly the type of rationalizing double talk that cheaters tend to use.

 

 

 

Right, of course, the cheater cheats, and if the betrayed stays in the marriage, it's the betrayed's "fault." LOL anyone reading your post knows you're a cheater or an OW/OM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Accepting the person for who he/she is means acknowledging they are a cheater. It doesn't mean (like you would wish it to mean) that the "cheating" component of their personality is "separated out" and I guess ignored as if it never happened and that character flaw simply doesn't exist.

 

Nice try at a blame shift though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's because the odds are stacked against reconciliation even in the best case. After all the BS now has to deal with a known, dishonest, cheat. It's up to the cheat to change their ways. All the BS can really do is decide to stick around for a while and see what happens. The failure of reconciliations is not because of advice to a BS, it's because the cheater didn't want to change as necessary to effectuate a reconciliation.

 

 

 

 

You can believe whatever you like. Each situation is somewhat different, but they have remarkable similarities, because the mental attitude of a cheater has to be a certain way in order that they can rationalize their lying and cheating to themselves. That's why I'm almost 100% sure you're a cheater yourself, or perhaps an OW/OM. You're singing the same tune as all cheaters seem to do.

 

 

 

 

 

But they're not "portraying" themselve as a victim. They ARE a victim of a cheating spouse. The fact that you would delegtimize their victim status by your choice of words--it's just a portrayal, not an actuality--is typical of the sly, dishonest blame shifting of the unremorseful cheater.

 

 

 

 

I don't know. Have you figured out a way for the cheater to unf8ck their affair partner? I haven't, no one else has, either. It would be really nice if the cheater could go back in a time machine and undo the past, but they can't. Pretending it never happened and is not part of the person who did it is not "truth", it is living in the cheater's fantasy world, which sounds like where you are right now.

 

 

 

 

LOL the cheater didn't feel safe in the marriage? The cheater felt safe enough to lie to and cheat on their spouse, so that's lie too. The cheater felt perfectly safe or they wouldn't have lied and cheated.

 

 

 

In other words you just have to accept your wife for the cheater and liar that she is, and if you decide not to divorce her, she can basically do anything she wants, becaus eyou accepted her for who she is. That's very good cheater logic--all the obligation is on the betrayed to accept the cheater for what he is, not on the cheater to change who he is.

 

 

 

 

What she's getting from her AP is nothing particularly special, since most APs are picked simply due to their availability for and willingness to have an affair, not because there is anything at all objectively special about them.

 

Obviously a betrayed spouse deserves "better" than being cheated on and lied to. That's not a complex calculation and the betrayed certainly doesn't need a cheater blame shifting by trying to claim that the reason she cheated was because she wasn't getting her needs satisfied (also typical of many cheaters).

 

 

 

 

 

Tough noogies. Let's turn it around a bit shall we sweetie?

 

If that's what the BS wants to do to "manipulate the situation," then I guess the cheater will just have to "accept the BS for who he/she is." Right?

 

If the cheater doesn't like it, they can leave. Just like the BS, just like you said. Right?

 

 

 

 

 

The poor widdle cheater is just a poor paralyzed victim now at the mercy of the all powerful BS. If that's your version of "truth" I'm afraid you are full of crap. And that's MY truth.

 

 

 

 

 

No, they're still lying because they're a liar. STOP BLAMING THE BS FOR THE WS'S BAD BEHAVIOR, HONEY BUNNY.

 

 

 

 

 

Or it's just possible the WS turns over the new leaf and becomes a decent person, stops lying, stops blameshifting, stops being incredibly selfish (stuff your "need" for another man's penis in the garbage can Little Missy) and becomes worthy of the BS's love. I agree with you that it is remarkably infrequent because most WSs think exactly like you have reflected in your post here. Everything is about "me" and I can do whatever I want and anything I don't like that is a consequence of my bad behavior is the BS's fault.

 

 

 

 

No, that results in dishonesty. So the end result of your entire long post is to ask that the cheater not be held accountable for their actions. What you claimed to be a plea for truth and honesty is actually the reverse.

 

Again it's just classic cheater-speak.

 

What happened? Did you get caught cheating, you got threatened with divorce, thrown under bus by your OM, and not prepared to go out into the cruel wide world without a marital support system backing you up? Am I close here? I think I am.

 

You don't want to stay married out of love, you want to keep cheating, but you don't want to divorce, because you need the financial support. Just another cake eater, I'll bet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cheating IS the problem. But I understand why you'd want to take the focus off of it.

 

 

 

 

I guess if the cheater had consulted with the BS before cheating and asked permission and received permission, it would be a "we" problem. Usually it doesn't quite happen that way though.

 

 

 

 

 

But that's exactly what you wanted to do by "separating" it. You want to rewrite history and make it go away.

 

 

 

 

 

It's also impossible.

 

 

 

 

LOL you still don't seem to get the difference between having a "need" and how you act on that need.

 

I might have a serious need for cash but if I rob a bank I will still go to jail. My need for cash doesn't justify the wrongful act.

 

Why is it that cheaters, or cheater-apologists, like yourself seem to have so much trouble grasping this very basic fact?

 

You seem to believe your feelings or needs are themselves justifications for doing wrongful acts to fulfill those needs. They're not, and that's the ultimate basic truth you and all cheaters have to understand and internalize before anything else can really happen by way of successful reconciliation.

 

As soon as you can admit that just because you feel a certain need, IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY doing harm to others, then it doesn't really matter what you think that need was. It's just selfishness on the cheater's part.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You meant WS not BS, at least I hope.

 

 

 

 

This was a very nice try but all you are really saying in your entire post is basically a veiled threat against the betrayed spouse (your husband?) that if they demand the truth and change in behavior and attitude from the WS in order to reconcile, the WS will retaliate by blaming the BS for the affair by claiming that the BS was inadequate to fulfill the WS's "needs." Further that the BS is forced to take the WS as-is and if the BS decides not to get divorced, any further cheating or marital problems will be the fault of the BS for not getting a divorce, but of course, using the threat of divorce to get real change from the WS is also unfair, so you've set up a complete no win situation for the person who was cheated on.

 

How about boiling everything you said down to something like this:

 

"Cheater, get your act together. Stop lying, stop cheating, stop selfishly putting your "needs" above your spouse and your marriage, take responsibility for what you did, and stop blaming the BS for it. Then maybe you might have a chance at a reconciliation that sticks."

 

 

I accept that these are your thoughts and are probably the thoughts of many. I was just trying to understand the thought process from a person who was betrayed by such a selfish act. I ask a lot of questions because I have been on both sides of an A. I can tell u I lied a lot about to keep the A going, mostly by saying nothing. I was extremely selfish, and justified my A to myself during the entire length of it. When I confessed, I didn't justify it nor did I make excuses for it. Actually for the first time in my entire marriage I was completely honest about everything. I answered every question honestly because I didn't fear the consequences. Did I want out of my M? At that moment I wanted to be on my own to figure out the hows and whys because I know myself best. I knew that I had spent 17 yrs with my H and been thru hell due to his bad behaviors yet they never changed. I needed to understand my faults and how they kept me in a M that honestly I should have left after I married him or probably shouldn't have married him.

 

So for you to generalize all A's to be the same to me is just someone who Thinks like an engineer...can't see outside of the box. Reconciliation isn't cookie cutter the way you describe. There are so many different variables that go into it and focussing on the act isn't going to make for a successful reconciliation in the terms that two people stay married and live a fulfilling life together based on honesty. Once a cheater always a cheater can't be applied to everyone, because some who cheat and don't address their problems go on to do other unhealthy things because they never addressed the real problems whether it be within themselves or within the marriage. Does that make them a bad person? Maybe a bad person to call your spouse but you know this about them, you chose to stay married, and now you can live in fear of what they may or may not do to deal with the original problems that led to the A in the first place.

 

My point in all of this was not something I did or didn't do after confession as a WS. My point is that when does the BS have to take responsibility for staying in a M where an A has occurred, can't change that, and stop blaming the WS for an unsuccessful reconciliation where clearly the tactics expressed don't seem to work. Especially when the BS has the mentalitity that a WS feelings don't matter because in their head it's trying to justify the act. Separate the act from the person. Why did I have my A??? Because I was getting what I couldn't get from my H. Was it right? Absolutely not, but at that time, I was being selfish. Did I lie? Yes, a lot. Did I excuse my behavior? No, neither did I tell my H that it was his fault. He didn't put me in the situation.

 

Acknowledging an A is so different then owning and taking responsibility for it. I acknowledged the A when I confessed. I owned it by saying that it was nothing that my H did or didn't do that forced me into it. I took responsibility for it by saying I did it because of selfish reasons. So now what? What comes next? Ignore my selfish reasons because to you its just me justifying my behavior. I will disagree with you on that. Deny the whole truth because that is part of it. And if it's too painful for you to hear, then you have a problem with dealing with your own emotions. It's not about me telling you my selfish reasons to cause pain or unwanted emotions, but if u choose to stay, then don't deny me who I am as a person based on something I've done in the past. You can define a cheating spouse by the A or u can define them by who they truly are and that is all of them. If you can't handle the pain...then it's your problem to solve by either dealing with said pain with your own truths, or deciding that it's not worth staying with a person who has caused so much pain.

 

Depending on your choice, because u have one, now that the A is part of the past or in OP situation on going, you need to deal with your own emotions. And for most, using whatever coping skill you have learned will prove to be what kind of happiness you have in the future.

 

I ask questions here because I am both a BS and a FWS. I understand both sides. When I was a BS, I did almost all of the things here suggested by you and my H didn't go on to cheat on me again. I believed as a BS that it wasn't my fault even tho my H tried to blame me. I understand why my H had his A. It doesn't excuse the act nor does it justify it but his coping strategy to unpleasant feelings (reality of the feelings caused by his behaviors) is to drink or cheat. That is the man I married, that is who he is. I get to chose whether I want to stay married to him, and it's not my place to change him. And who am I to force change on him to be who I want him to be? People change when they want to. No intervention is going to change that person unless that person can acknowledge the real problem. Same as an alcoholic. I thought because my H stopped drinking 12 yrs ago that things would get better. And they did until things got uncomfortable and he used other ways to cope.

 

So my point is not to blame the BS for the A, nor to blame them for an unsuccessful reconciliation. My point is that based on how most marriages can survive an A, but in order for the M to be a healthy one based on honesty and have a loving marriage, to me the A and the person have to be addressed.

 

If A's are a deal breaker for u...that's your choice. So u divorce. if the person you married isn't the person you just had dday with...then which person is she? That is my point. I think people who can have success are two people who can look at the problems in the marriage without using the acts within an A to have the upper hand but as a tool to focus on the main goal...honesty and trust within the marriage.

[onthefence210]

Exactly my point...your choice was to send the dog to the farm. You love the dog based on who you knew or thought the dog to be. You decided that based on your own knowledge of who your dog is. Your dog wasn't loyal to you although you fed it, walked it, bought it toys, gave it a nice place to live. You just happened to love a bad dog. You didn't stay and become that fear based person based on the person you know. That was your choice and it takes a very strong, confident person to do this. You posted the analogy and it applies to some A's but not all. Dogs come in all different breeds, you just happened to get one that is known to bite. You recognized that and u sent him away so that you will never be bitten by that dog again. So what's next...do u go out looking for a dog that doesn't bite? Or do u now have a fear of all dogs?

 

You don't explain what your reconciliation was like or even if you attempted??? That is the objective of this thread. The OP knows his W best. As you knew yours.

 

Let me give you what I mean by what I say without taking offense to ur first sentence basically saying I'm typical...

There are two different people in a M. Within a M affected by an A there is the WS and the BS. The WS cheats based on what? Just because it's the thing to do? Or is there a reason? Not justifying it just saying that it's happened cant change it...so is it something from within the WS? Absolutely. So u divorce, the WS can no longer cheat on you, yet they can go on to cheat again. Why is that? Because of something within them that they haven't changed. The cheating is separate from the marriage in this case the cheating is just a way for the cheater cope with whatever it is within themselves. This is just one type of person. You are generalizing all cheaters to be that person and that is the mentality of so many people who can't separate the person from the act.

 

I don't have any typical mentality, especially not one like your W. If my H chose to D me after my A, that is his choice. That is something that I would have to accept for my behavior. My problem to deal with. In my case tho, my H didn't want D, nor did he want to deal with the unpleasant feelings that were caused by my A. Instead he wanted to go about life before the A took place, wanted me to be who I was when all of his needs were being met. I could not do that. I was honest about that because if I wasn't, then I would be painting a picture that was pleasant for him, yet for me I couldn't be happy in my marriage. I needed for him to know my feelings because they applied to the marriage he chose to stay in. So when I asked for D, he then used my A to manipulate and intimidate. Prior to my A, he used the same tactics but instead used my kids and security. My point is...A's are all the same. The people committing the bad behaviors aren't. So it's up to the BS to make that call. But don't stay and think the behavior is going to change if you don't get to the root of the problems. If the problem can only be about the WS, and they can't say well this is what I got from my A then to me it's the BS's problem that they can't handle the truth. And so divorce is the best consequence for the betrayal.

[GLDheart]

So for you to generalize all A's to be the same to me is just someone who Thinks like an engineer...

 

Sure they come in many flavors. But just as any flavor of ice cream is still ice cream, All affairs ARE the same.

 

They are selfish acts of deceit. Perpetuated upon an unsuspecting victim. A Victim that you professed loyalty to. They are all an act of betrayal and can be addressed as such. Don't cloud the real issue: HOW CAN THIS PERSON THAT I TRUSTED BETRAY ME. Only after that can you rebuild trust... and only after that can you address any marital problems.

 

...focussing on the act isn't going to make for a successful reconciliation...

 

I agree. But it's where you start. Only oafter that top layer of destruction is cleared can you dig into the deeper issues.

 

...some who cheat and don't address their problems go on to do other unhealthy things... Does that make them a bad person?...

 

Yes. Yes it does. Bad people do bad things. But they can own it and atone for it.

 

... the BS has the mentalitity that a WS feelings don't matter because in their head it's trying to justify the act...

 

No. That's just not it. One problem at a time please.

 

I acknowledged the A when I confessed... ...So now what? What comes next? Ignore my selfish reasons because to you its just me justifying my behavior. I will disagree with you on that...

 

So that's it for you huh? "I cheated... there I confessed... move along now nothing to see here... Get over it. Let's get onto MY problems now."??

 

...don't deny me who I am as a person based on something I've done in the past. You can define a cheating spouse by the A or u can define them by who they truly are and that is all of them.

 

So many contradictions. "Don't deny who I am.." but then "Define them who they truly are..." Uhm, ok. Fine, have it both ways: You are a self justifying cheater who remorselessly wants to rug sweep it and get onto the marital problems.

 

Separate the act from the person...

 

Seperate the act from the person. What a crock of $hit. Here's an absurd example to help you understand: "What a great leader to the community Father Shenanigan's is. So religious and he helps the homeless too... oh, he molests children?... nah, you need to seperate that act from him as a person. Look how great of a man he is over there preaching the lord's word..."

 

... the A is part of the past...

 

AND RIGHT HERE FOLKS IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM. Onthefence210, it is not part of the past. IT IS YOUR FUTURE. Every single day now after D-Day the betrayed spouse gets to live with the knowledge that thier spouse betrayed them. EVERY SINGLE DAY.

 

It will only be in the past when the one betrayed puts it in the past. The wayward has zero right to tell them to "get over it already" or "leave the past in the past".

 

... without using the acts within an A to have the upper hand

 

Ah... I get it. For you, relationships are all about power struggle. You need to let that go. IT IS NOT ABOUT POWER OR CONTROL.

 

I think the root of your problem is that you are trying to address the affair and the marital issues in the same breath. YOU CAN'T. First the affair needs to be addressed. To do that the Marital problems actually have to be ignored!! What?!? IGNORED?!?.... YEP. IGNORED, for the moment at least.

 

Don't you see? Your arguments spin around and around like a merry go round. "You cheated."... "So what, your a lousy spouse".. "I know, we'll talk about that in a minute. How could you cheat?"... "That's not the point, why are you a lousy spouse?".... and around and around we go.

 

Stop the spinning arguments. Stop the "tit for tat" mentality and address each problem one layer at a time.

[onthefence210]

How exactly am I rug sweeping? Do explain. What because I can admit my actions to u now what? Ok what exactly does a BS do after dday? And please tell me exactly what the WS is suppose to do in order to make this marriage work without rug sweeping.

 

Tell me how you came to the decision to divorce your W? And be honest. Did she confess and u filed? Did u find out on your own and file or did you try reconciliating?

[William]

Thread starter, if you're reading and interested in further input and discussion regarding your issues, please alert moderation on this posting and request the thread to be re-opened. I'm noting increasing discussion between members regarding their own perspectives/issues/relationships and wish to keep the thread focused on your specific situation. Thanks.