Is there a way back, if she says she loves the other man?

[NotCamelot]

Speaking of working out. This crisis has lost me nearly 30 lbs. Just because I don't feel like eating as much. I work out a lot as it is. did a 100 miles on my bike two weekends back.

 

I lost 28 pounds. That's the only positive thing the is a direct result of the mess.

[BetrayedH]

Yes offense BH. I was advising the OP not you. Just saying.

 

Part of Harley's philosophy is to "never discuss the affair again." I tried the rugsweeping that Harley suggested and it simply facilitated my wife's continued lying. I think it's fair to disclose to the OP that I tried that route and it failed. Since that time I've come to find that THAT route is about the worst idea ever.

 

I tried to differentiate my opinion about your advice from the person giving it but if you want to be offended anyway, I suppose that's your choice. For what it's worth, I just wanted to clarify that I disagreed with your message, not the messenger.

[icDude]

So first day using the Last resort technique. Not much change in w behavior, however, she did sleep next to me in the bed, instead of upstairs (any fighting and I am sure that would not be the case). She is still angry from our fight the other night. I suspect another day until she calms down.

[nofool4u]

Is there a way back, if she says she loves the other man?

 

Absolutely not. You should be silently consulting an attorney and surprising her with divorce papers.

[Owl]

I'm not real clear...so what does the "Last Resort" technique actually entail?

[icDude]

I'm not real clear...so what does the "Last Resort" technique actually entail?

 

The techniques is described in D. Remedy and can be found on the divorce busters website as well.

Basically, you pull back and do not elicit any type of pursuit behavior; i.e. trying to win her back with sentiments or pleading, then you go get your own life, then you watch and wait.

It is simple in theory, but hard in practice if you are still pining over your love or obsessed with ending the affair. I need to do it, because I have a problem with aggression and letting things go, this will help me with that, it may also give her time to figure things out (which she needs).

I am not sure it will work, but it should reduce the tension and make me look less like the bad guy. Also it requires her to put more effort in and try to win me back instead (if she decides she wants this). At the very least it will delay her need to depart (reduced stress from me), and from what I have read in several sources, romantic emotional affairs tend to burn out with time, so time on my side is a good thing.

Marriage is not about romantic love, it is about a mature commitment. I'm hoping that eventually she will break free of her insanity and see that what we have works. If not I keep the home together for a while longer, while I get my career and life in order. She is still doing her domestic part with the kids and home and that is positive and would be much harder for either of us to do on our own.

[road]

Part of Harley's philosophy is to "never discuss the affair again." I tried the rugsweeping that Harley suggested and it simply facilitated my wife's continued lying. I think it's fair to disclose to the OP that I tried that route and it failed. Since that time I've come to find that THAT route is about the worst idea ever.

 

I tried to differentiate my opinion about your advice from the person giving it but if you want to be offended anyway, I suppose that's your choice. For what it's worth, I just wanted to clarify that I disagreed with your message, not the messenger.

 

 

Harley does not advocate rug sweeping. There is a difference between rug sweeping and confirming that all the truth has been told.

 

Once confirmation of the whole truth is done then it is best to no longer talk about the affair.

[road]

Yes you are right to not beg for it only makes you appear week. Week men do not attrack women. However you should get Survivng an Affair by Dr Harley. Learn how to kill the affair with a good exposure and plan A your WW back.

[Owl]

Wow...I can't believe I'm about to do this...

 

I agree with Abe, personally.

 

My wife and I still occasionally might refer to her affair in passing, as it might apply to something or another that occurred in our daily lives. It comes up once in a while when we talk about how to heal from things, or the rough times we've gone through in our lives.

 

It's not a taboo subject in our house.

 

It's not an everyday discussion point either...it comes up very rarely. But I think it IS unrealistic to expect that it's not something that you will still occasionally pick up and discuss, like anything else in life.

 

I have to admit it's been a long time since I'd read Harley's stuff...but I don't recall that avoiding discussing or referring to the affair was a major focal point in it.

 

On the contrary, the message i got was that the truth needed to be discovered, no matter how long it might take.

 

ICDUDE- What you describe sounds a lot like what people call "the 180" or similar to Harley's "plan B". The risk here is that you usually precede plan B with plan A...which is clearly demonstrating to your wife all the positive things that she risks losing by continuing her affair.

 

In your case, given the years of abuse you've described, I'm not sure that you're turning to plan B with that clearly spelled out to her.

 

It sounds to me like this may not have the effect you're hoping for.

 

It may just tell her that you are as "done" as she is.

 

Keep us posted...I'm still rooting for you.

[icDude]

ICDUDE- What you describe sounds a lot like what people call "the 180" or similar to Harley's "plan B". The risk here is that you usually precede plan B with plan A...which is clearly demonstrating to your wife all the positive things that she risks losing by continuing her affair.

 

In your case, given the years of abuse you've described, I'm not sure that you're turning to plan B with that clearly spelled out to her.

 

It sounds to me like this may not have the effect you're hoping for.

 

It may just tell her that you are as "done" as she is.

 

Keep us posted...I'm still rooting for you.

 

I have had multiple discussions thus far on what she stands to lose. I think it is obvious that our lifestyle and many of the things she wants to achieve in life are at risk by ending our relationship. We have three children, we have a house, a similar set of life goals, and similar wants and desires from our relationship. I am not saying that I have completely spelled it out, but we have gone to counseling as well and discussed these things. She is in a romantic fog, so those things are not important right now. Am I her plan B? Maybe. Maybe I always have been. the method I have chosen does two things, it allows me to back off and let her tie her own rope if she chooses. Or she can come to her senses. Either way, i will be in a lot better position.

I have to give it some time before I decide this plan isn't working. And to the naysayers; I don't have much to say because your advice is just to give up... which if all else fails is the null result so I don't need to ruminate on it.

[icDude]

In my opinion, if a BS has to rely on "hope" or do any sort of "work" to snap their WS out of their "insanity," then it's not worth it. You are their backup plan.

 

 

I am pulling back from doing any 'work', that is the LRT. And in my opinion the OM is her backup plan, not me. She has turned to him anytime she felt our relationship was rocky. Time will tell, but there is always two ways to see this. I am the one she ended up married to with three kids and he could have been around many times. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but I think I got a lot on this chump in the light of day.

[icDude]

I hope things work out for you, but you're one of a long line of husbands here who have been in same exact boat and who have done the same exact thing . . . and failed.

 

Sure, each of those husbands can now claim, "Well at least I tried."

If that's what you need in the end, then knock yourself out I suppose.

 

Good luck - I mean that.

 

Wow, you're depressing. I mean if this isn't going to work than what is?... besides walking out now. Her position is irrational. He has to leave his wife, she has to leave me. She will be stuck in this state, due to custody issues, he will be stuck in his for similar reasons. They can see each other infrequenty and this will eventually fall apart. That's the likely reality, It's an affair relationship, which statistically fails, and a long distance relationship, which statistically fails.

Whereas, I am better looking, smarter, more sucessful, and the father of her children. Not only that, I'm modest as well.

[drifter777]

I hope things work out for you, but you're one of a long line of husbands here who have been in same exact boat and who have done the same exact thing . . . and failed.

 

Sure, each of those husbands can now claim, "Well at least I tried."

If that's what you need in the end, then knock yourself out I suppose.

 

Good luck - I mean that.

 

icDude: What you are doing is avoiding confrontation and hoping that time will heal this situation and your heart. Most BH's do the same thing and, as Alice points out, this path usually fails. Your wife's decision to continue seeing the other man is an untenable position for your marriage and you need to accept this. You cannot save your family alone; your wife has to commit to reconciliation 100% or your relationship will not survive.

 

You are like many men in that you abhor confrontation and simply hope that all this will blow over and time will heal these wounds. You are wrong and you need help to see clearly what you are doing and why. Discuss this with your IC and let him/her help you understand why you are willing to do almost anything to avoid confrontation with your wife. Whether you ever reconcile understanding yourself will help your personal recovery.

[GorillaTheater]

Wow, you're depressing. I mean if this isn't going to work than what is?... besides walking out now. Her position is irrational. He has to leave his wife, she has to leave me. She will be stuck in this state, due to custody issues, he will be stuck in his for similar reasons. They can see each other infrequenty and this will eventually fall apart. That's the likely reality, It's an affair relationship, which statistically fails, and a long distance relationship, which statistically fails.

Whereas, I am better looking, smarter, more sucessful, and the father of her children. Not only that, I'm modest as well.

 

If you're the prize, the catch, then f*cking well act like it. Because right now you seem to content to be your wife's Plan B. No man who's truly a catch would tolerate this situation. Your wife notices that you're okay with being her backup plan. How on earth can she repect that? If you assign low value to yourself, she will certainly do the same. And she's not going to be interested in a man she can't respect.

[BetrayedH]

For what it is worth, I am one of those betrayed husbands that can say, "Well, I did what I could."

 

In the end, I wish I had taken a firm stance at the beginning. I had a similar fear of losing my family with actions that were too bold. Makes sense considering that she's close to "leaving" already, right? Unfortunately, this common sense approach is backwards when it comes to effectiveness. By hanging around, you make it that much easier for her to change nothing. Further, she never hits bottom and again, has no motivation to change.

 

It's a very hard reality to accept - to know that our self-sacrifice is counter-productive. The reality is that your best bet to knock her out of her fog (if you care to believe in such a thing), is to remove her soft-landing option.

 

And this says nothing about the psychological damage that this is all doing to you right now. Your emotions are in a sort of holding pattern at the moment as you try to use your mind to solve this puzzle. I've been there. Given enough time at this, it does serious damage. I am about 16 months post Dday and I would say I am working my way from PTSD into more of a chronic depression. At some point, you have to take a stand for yourself and for your marriage.

 

Like Alice, I wish you good luck and I mean it, too.

[icDude]

icDude: What you are doing is avoiding confrontation and hoping that time will heal this situation and your heart. Most BH's do the same thing and, as Alice points out, this path usually fails. Your wife's decision to continue seeing the other man is an untenable position for your marriage and you need to accept this. You cannot save your family alone; your wife has to commit to reconciliation 100% or your relationship will not survive.

 

You are like many men in that you abhor confrontation and simply hope that all this will blow over and time will heal these wounds. You are wrong and you need help to see clearly what you are doing and why. Discuss this with your IC and let him/her help you understand why you are willing to do almost anything to avoid confrontation with your wife. Whether you ever reconcile understanding yourself will help your personal recovery.

 

I here what you are saying, but I have been confronting her on this for the last month since d-day. Debating, yelling and arguing and attending counseling. She needs to stop talking to him if we are to move forward, I have made that clear. Now I go out have fun and tell her to piss off, but I don't file for divorce, because that just takes a hard dicision out of her hands and puts it on me. And it is not my decision.

I relax and let her fret.

 

So you are all saying I need to be tougher somehow. And I here you. I will give LRT at least a week to look for change and then maybe another week. No movement, I try something new.

[Furious]

When I discovered my husband's affair I handed him his suitcase and wished him well. It was the scariest and the bravest thing I've ever done in my life.

 

I didn't do this as some kind of test, I was dead serious, as much I was scared and as much I still loved him, I would not beg or plead for him. I knew instinctively that I had to love myself more than I loved him. There was absolutely no way that I would accept being lied to and deceived.

 

I insisted he leave, to at least respect the space I needed, for over 6 weeks he stayed in a hotel, everyday calling me, asking for a second chance. We are now nearly one year from d-day and are trying to rebuild our lives.

 

I demanded respect and the truth, without this there would be no reconciliation, and I have owned my own contribution to the problems in our marriage but I will never own the excuse for his cheating on me.

 

Rug sweeping and blind hope is not going to solve anything, the courage to be all in or all out is the only way to live an authentic life.

[Artie Lang]

sounds like you're somewhat of a "nice guy," bro.

 

you need to be tough here. you're counselor is basically telling you to rugsweep the affair, hoping she(wife) will come around. not good advice.

 

again, you must be firm with her. you have no chance at saving your marriage as long as this affair continues. that's a fact.

[GLDheart]

When I discovered my husband's affair I handed him his suitcase and wished him well...

 

I didn't do this as some kind of test, I was dead serious...

 

I demanded respect and the truth, without this there would be no reconciliation...

 

...the courage to be all in or all out is the only way to live an authentic life.

 

Furious has it NAILED. It is all or nothing.

[icDude]

I will end this affair. And don't think I haven't thought about finding this guy and dueling him. In another time perhaps. But I have tried to call the coward, who hung up and I sent him an email telling him to stop ( not that I think that is very effective but he is 1000 miles away). But don't think that if I ever saw this man, I wouldn't seriously consider something primal.

!

[onthefence210]

Ok so I must know from any BS who is in reconciliation what you got when u demanded the truth? * What truth were u looking for? *The truth about the hows and whys of the A? *Or we're you looking for details, timelines? *Did u want to know about feelings for the AP? *Or did u just want to know the actions? *Are A's different or are they all the same? *Are there no how's and whys because they are excuses for the A? *Or can the explanations of the hows and whys lead to possible neglect in the marriage that a WS couldn't get from BS yet that would mean possible change on both WS and BS? *Or if change is needed yet one or both don't see it, does that mean one or both aren't accepting of the person whom they are married to therefore basically living in constant defensive state where no truths can be told because its just not acceptable because one or both wants them to believe that they are both right? *

 

I mean most I see on here is to beat them into submission. Make them change their ways because it's their fault they went outside the marriage. But how does the marriage work if the WS is feeling all the pain and remorse of their actions, the BS is feeling all the pain and anger of the WS actions, when do the real problems get solved? Or are all A's the same and as long as the WS feels all the feelings, acknowledges the BS feelings, goes NC, goes transparent, are the feelings the WS had during the A ever discussed or is that just too painful to hear? Seriously...how do u reconcile unless all the truths are told? Being an authentic person isn't just being everything the WS expects and deserves after a dday...being authentic is being honest about who u r, what u need from the marriage, and not pushing things aside because they just might cause the other person to feel pain. Don't excuse their behavior during their A, but separating the behavior from the person they couldn't be for whatever reason and deciding if that is the person you want to be married to. Then take responsibility for your own choices to stay in the marriage or not. If I cheat, and then I stop, never cheat again but I don't change the hows and whys or I don't accept the person for who he is yet I stay and bitch and complain about him...that's me playing the victim of my life.

 

So again my ignorance to this whole way to a successful reconciliation is that I see from a lot of people their advice to a BS yet they had no success. For some cheating is a deal breaker and they move on, yet I have to believe its because the WS cheating was just the final straw. For others who wanted reconciliation yet it failed it was because they did as advised by many on here only to come back and portray themselves as the victim when they too had a choice to leave. What went wrong? What honestlyO would you have done differently?

 

When do u separate the act from the person and deal with the person instead of focussing on the act? I think the ones that reconcile and are happy, are the ones who can be completely honest about who they are, what they need to feel loved and respected and both change and grow together. It takes some pretty confident people to know their worth. And it takes knowing what you had prior to the act whether it be you were happy yet your WS wasn't and u didn't know for whatever the reason...but someone wasn't happy and didn't feel safe in the marriage to be honest. Only the BS knows their WS to make that call. If this is something totally unexpected from the person u kno then most likely you are right.

 

I have no clue the answer to ur question other then to say, if you love your wife and you want to save your marriage, be ready to accept your W for who she really is. If she can't give you honesty about that, and yes what's she's getting from her AP is important for u to know no matter how painful...it just might reveal that you can't be who she needs, and then I'd say love yourself enough to know you deserve better for you. And she just isn't it.

 

To me pushing a divorce to get someone to change their ways is trying to manipulate the situation. Use fear to paralyze the WS? Ok so now I'm scared, I stop my A, I do everything u ask, now what? I internalize my feelings to meet your needs because my real truth will explain what I need from you yet explanations are excuses for the behavior? So you get what you wanted, you kno the truth about the behavior and yet the person is still lying because he/she now has to be someone you want or need. So the WS decides to either live in the same exact M they had, never truly happy with the M, and goes on to either A: cheat again B: leave the M C: into depression or D: accepting that they can live without their needs being met because being honest only gets them beat with their past. Probably more scenarios but my point is that, the A is an act. The person needs to be separated from the act in order to get to the honesty. Not saying to dismiss it, nor not to have consequences but just saying until you can take the focus off of the cheating can you get to the actual problems. Is it just a they problem, or a we problem? If its a they problem and they can't accept it...then it's definitely time to move on. But if it's a we problem and both are willing to understand and change who they are then reconciliation can be successful. Definitely takes more the the WS understanding the problems. I think the BS needs to take whatever love they have for the person and use it to keep an open mind to the entire situation.

 

The cheating happened. You nor the WS can change it. Can't rewrite history to make it go away. Can only decide what you'll tolerate and what you won't from the present. And trying to change a person who doesn't want to change is not accepting that person for who they are. You get to decide and take responsibility for your choice. Trying to reconcile with a person who acknowledges the facts yet blames their coping skills on you whether it be from a WS or a BS is someone who denies reality. But for some WS the A, is just a way to cope with their reality and for some it's a way to get a need met that they didn't feel comfortable enough getting from you. The reasons will be important to listen to if they are willing to be honest.

 

Remorse will come from the BS when their truths are told and they can feel your pain. It's then that they can be honest when you can cope without beating them with their honesty. The consequences of the behavior will be your choice...leave the marriage or know that the pain one has caused you is enough to want change for a happier, healthier marriage where honesty is safe. Rendering yourself completely vulnerable to another exposing all ur flaws knowing you'll still be loved is what will sustain your marriage. But it takes a confident person to accept all of this. One must know their worth to make the choice.

[GLDheart]

Onthefence,

 

To what you wrote: "yes".

 

It is said over and over on this forum that we are all responsible for the relationship 50/50.

 

However, I want to elaborate on what you wrote. The relationship must have some flaw in it and you gave a few great examples above. For example needs not being met, or a person not being comfortable enough to be honest with thier spouse etc. But that is the root of the first problem and in no way excuses the next issue.

 

The way I see it is like compounding crimes. Imagine robbing a bank, ok that's a crime... but during the escape you run down a child in your getaway car. Now you have TWO crimes. You can't exactly say "Listen Jury, I admit to robbing the bank and I will take my punishment... BUT the Kid I hit, well that was collateral damage. I MEAN COME ON I HAD TO RUN AWAY THE COPS WERE CHASING ME! IT'S THIER FAULT!!"

 

Simply put: The first crime does not excuse the second.

Edited August 18, 2012 by GLDheart

[GLDheart]

When do u separate the act from the person and deal with the person instead of focussing on the act?

 

For me, never. The "act" isn't some oopsy booboo that can be rug swept EVER. It is now part of that person now and forever.

 

It's like a Dog that bit you... sometimes you put the dog down... other times you just know forever that, yep, that's a dog that can bite. If you love the dog enough you just may add that into your new understanding of your dog. Maybe you can continue to live with that dog. But, you'll never quite look at that dog the same way. If, in the future sometime, things ever get uncomfortable again you will very quickly remember that day the dog bit you. It never goes away and can't be "seperated" out.

Edited August 18, 2012 by GLDheart

[icDude]

to onthefense, it is true that you must separate the A from the person. I think that overall my W is a good person. Furthermore, I think this A was a call that she was unhappy with our M. I have tried to make changes to show her that I love her. She is resistant to believing these changes. She continues to have the A, which makes it hard to forgive and move forward. She says she has no emotions for me. (yet last night we had passionate sex and then went back to no touching or intimacy).

I asked her again to end the A, but she pushed it the other way. We are both very stubborn. And she says the fight we had on Wednesday was a tipping point. She doesn't like my anger. I will leave the situation be for a while as I return to the last resort technique. (Which last night was a tragic departure from).

[icDude]

You seem to have accepted being in an polyandrous relationship with remarkable equanimity. I don't think many could match that.

 

Yeah I thought about that. I am on a mood stabilizer right now, which may help. But do I like this situation? not really. It will be frustratingly hard to get a divorce however, financially and for the kids. And, here is my thought experiment, If my wife continues to get emotional support from this pansy and continues to have sex with me, can I deal with that?

I would love to get her emotional support, but isn't sex without all the emotions one of the greatest dreams of every man?

 

So do I accept this without question? No. But can I deal with regular sex for the next year or so until I get to a better financial plane? Maybe. And will she give me regular sex? Maybe. If she is really afraid of losing the stability of our financial situation. It could be a perfect union made in purgatory.