Free spirit with conservative

[Ruby Slippers]

It might be a good thing that he's moving away. Would make a split easier.

My thoughts exactly. Make a clean break now, and move on.

 

Even with as mad as I am now, I know that eventually I'll be glad for the time we had together.

 

I knew what the risks were, and I faced them knowing I could handle it if I was disappointed. So I'll handle it.

[veggirl]

Oh Ruby. This guy is making ME tired, just reading it! Why is it one step forward and 2 back with him, every time? How frustrating. He is too inexperienced, it's just showing more and more unfortunately. He needs to learn how to be in a relationship, being the teacher sounds exhausting. He sounds like a great guy, except for this. And "this" is a pretty big thing. Aww, I'm sorry (why can't he just not be sooo relationship-dumb! geez)

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Wow. Okay. It took me a bit of time to read through this entire thread but I did.

 

First, hats off to you ImaJerk. I have pretty much agreed with everything you've been saying to Ruby. You're posts have been to the point and insightful and I think under appreciated!

 

Ruby, this guy sounds pretty great. Yes, he clearly has a few of his own issues, but it's obvious that you do as well. You are an emotional rollar coaster in this thread. You think he is great. You use this little guy to highlight that: . Then you yet all you do is blame this guy for everything in the relationship and talk about how you are going to dump him. You say its because you don't want to get hurt but I think it's because you don't want to take the risk to love.

 

Here is the deal Ruby. I like you on the board. You are very sweet, warm and friendly. But after reading through this entire thread, you are very critical and judgemental of this guy. He isn't a perfect person. Neither are you. There are times when you are going to make mistakes and there will be times when he makes mistakes. He appears to be doing the best he can. He clearly wants to make you happy and when you request things, is eager to do them. He clearly makes the time and effort to see you since he is always driving you around. Yet all you do is critize the parts of him that aren't perfect.

 

Have you ever thought about the downsides you possibly bring to his life? Have you ever thought about the things you are doing that maybe make him upset and considered this from his perspective?

 

You wanted him to be more honest about his feelings with you, and once he was and told you you hurt his feelings (even though you obviously didn't mean to), you talked about how it was time to dump him. So you don't really want him to be honest about his feelings. You want him to only be as honest about his feelings when it's convenient for you or when it makes you feel good. That's not fair. Sometimes a man is going to have good feelings and sometimes he is going to have bad ones and you have to be willing to deal with the bad ones if you really care about someone.

 

If you want to dump him, then do it. But I really feel like you are totally being unfair toward this man and that you are settling yourself up to fail on purpose with him. Next time you start thinking about all the ways he isn't perfect, maybe it would be good for you to start thinking about all the ways you aren't perfect and what he would be saying about you if he was posting here instead of you.

 

You need to accept him for who he is. That is real love. Not accepting someone only because they "worked" on themselves so they could be acceptable to you. I even wonder if this guy could do enough work on himself to make you feel totally secure. I think your insecurities have more to do with you then they do with him. Cut him a break or dump him but stop with this up and down "oh he is wonderful!" then "oh he is terrible!" stuff.

 

My Mommom use to say something really funny and I think applies to each one of us: "Comes with the package". Meaning you take the good AND the bad. Because each one of us has plenty of both.

[Ruby Slippers]

I hear you, and I'm totally open to being critiqued on my flaws, too. I am well aware that I'm far from perfect!

 

Have you ever thought about the downsides you possibly bring to his life? Have you ever thought about the things you are doing that maybe make him upset and considered this from his perspective?

Yes - but the problem is that he doesn't communicate any of this. The only thing he really said in this regard is that he has adapted a lot for me. I asked him if he was glad he had or not. And he said yes, he's glad he has.

 

You wanted him to be more honest about his feelings with you, and once he was and told you you hurt his feelings (even though you obviously didn't mean to), you talked about how it was time to dump him.

I haven't said anything to him about dumping him. I'm discussing that here and thinking it through on my own. All I asked him for today was NOT to just come to my house (because I couldn't sleep all night and was still in bed when he was trying to come over and I just felt like crap), but wait until I get home from the show to talk on the phone. I haven't said I won't see him, or I'm breaking up with him, or anything like that.

 

When he told me how me not asking him to stay made him feel, I immediately told him that I wanted nothing more than for him to stay, and I was also feeling sad that he just blazed out of here. But I couldn't do a damn thing about it when he was running out the door! And when he told me how he felt, he was totally attacking me and spouting nonsense about how I obviously don't care because I didn't make him stay, or come over to his place - even though he told me in many different ways he didn't want either of those things. I kept opening my door, knocking on his - and his answer was always no. He gave me no possible outcome except a losing one.

 

And then he kept that under his hat all weekend, all the way until a few days before he leaves town, before he said anything about it. He didn't give me the chance to be there for him. He shut me out and convinced himself I was the one shutting him out. That makes the getaway nice and easy, doesn't it? Seems cowardly and uncaring to me.

 

So you don't really want him to be honest about his feelings. You want him to only be as honest about his feelings when it's convenient for you or when it makes you feel good. That's not fair. Sometimes a man is going to have good feelings and sometimes he is going to have bad ones and you have to be willing to deal with the bad ones if you really care about someone.

No, I want him to tell me when I can do something about it. It's always best to express your emotions when they come up, rather than letting them fester. He waited until he wasn't sick anymore to tell me he wanted me to spend time with him when he was sick. So there's no way for me to fix the situation now. He expected me to read his mind, and got his feelings hurt when I didn't.

 

Next time you start thinking about all the ways he isn't perfect, maybe it would be good for you to start thinking about all the ways you aren't perfect and what he would be saying about you if he was posting here instead of you.

I wish he would post here. I wish he would stop worrying so much about being polite and say what he actually means.

 

You need to accept him for who he is. That is real love.

I need to accept being with a guy who has never even told me he cares about me, outside of an argument, when he most likely felt that he had to?

 

No, I don't have to accept or love a man like that. If that's the deal, that tells me there's a big problem somewhere.

 

I approached and got to know him with an open heart, ready and willing to love him. But you can't love a person who won't let you love them!

[Ninjainpajamas]

It's unfortunate Ruby because one of the biggest concerns to me was what was he putting in, and yet you still insisted on being the glue that holds the relationship together, continuing to expand on communication and expression and getting on the same page however not expecting much in return on that level as far as being mutual, the surface things are fine but not significant for men...all the while he sits back and just kind of goes with the flow and when he reciprocates of course you feel like a million bucks but when he resorts to being himself since he's really not used to putting in any of the work then he of course ignores your emotional/expressive needs..he doesn't seem able, experienced or willing enough to branch out in this relationship in what is important.

 

I've fallen out of this thread because I've seen a pattern, a pattern of you trying to extend your hand farther than it already is to justify some kind of validation on his part...you make it so easy for him to reciprocate and give the smallest shred of effort or expression yet he still avoids it at times. You continually adjust and maneuver like a fat kid trying to squeeze into an outfit 3 times too small just to make it "work".

 

I guess the reason I've never had much faith in this man is because I know inside what a man must be willing to do and feel in order to progress within a relationship with a woman before he starts putting her at arms length.

Eventually he just feels like expectations are high, perfection of him are required and what he does is never good enough...there will always be some kind of arms length feeling to it, even IF he's not doing much. From his point of view he is trying but he inside also knows he's not giving it his all (although he will deny that to himself and to you)...It's that slight emotional line that makes all the difference with men...it allows them to take chances, make leaps of faith or else they're not ready to love. If he were to cross that line everything actually could change, but he doesn't seem ready for it.

 

He already knows what he wants and feels, but he'll start to incorporate more fights and pushing away until he feels in a good enough place to disconnect. Your therapist was right about people not saying goodbye's and this guy isn't going to be transparent or clear in his actions, he will simply react and start to do the process...even without him even realizing he's doing so. He doesn't know how to communicate, he reacts out of vulnerability and insecurity and he's so used to being himself that he doesn't even realize what he's doing...especially the passive aggressiveness, so he'll likely be defensive when called out on it, possibly very defensive to the point of extreme anger.

 

He's already pushed you away by saying you weren't there for him when you needed him...and although being unclear he expects you to have known, this is his insecurity and also his way of convincing himself you are not the right girl...the right girl would have flung him to the couch and never let him leave. But then again at some point along the road he'd find another situation to "test" you on...without you even knowing it, and one you would surely fail because that's what he's intending you to do...he wants you to fail so that he can push you away emotionally...he will keep creating these kinds of scenarios until he feels justified in his own mind and right that you do not really care and love him and hold that against you. I feel like he is attempting sabotage at this point in the relationship.

 

I feel like you thought If you loved him and cared enough for him and showed him what "love is" that he would come around eventually and feel comfortable with expressing himself and be ready to fully invest wholeheartedly into this relationship like you have. But that's not a risk that I've typically seen pay off, if ever. You cannot push a man into loving you (like that) or being something he is not, or emotionally ready when he is not. Many women ignore what men are really saying just like many men ignore what women are saying but instead developing their own ideas and emotions about the relationship all on their own, they figure out their own mentality and they stick to it, regardless of what the other person is doing or saying, they feel like they can achieve it If they just stick to it...as If a wish will come true as long as you believe in it long and hard enough...so to a degree a woman is fighting for her emotions and the relationship she wants....not what a man is doing, because he's usually not even close to meeting her half way emotionally.

 

Your biggest shot with this guy was to communicate and get him to invest more emotionally by telling you and showing you how he feels...but If a man closes the door and walks/steps away, you've got to be able to read the sign on the door "temporarily unavailable...under construction until 2015". You can't just think "Well...I'm going in anyway because I see a lot of potential in this project and I think I can lend a hand and speed up the process...I can help him and be supportive and loving and show him how much better things can be" because even though you mean well you're more likely to inhibit the construction process than propel it along, although you may lend a few helpful insights and experience for him and possibly you as well.

 

Life is about learning experiences...this guy definitely doesn't sound ready to invest, and with him moving away I feel like this is his way of getting some distance without having to say it out loud, It's a job and everyone understands that...but I think we all know that If he was that concerned about this relationship and felt really invested, his decisions may have been different and he would have handled it in a different way and with much more emotional weight and burden...If he feels pressured I think he feels happy about this giving him space and more breathing room as you cannot just go down whenever you want. He'll know when you're coming and when you're going, and that'll give him back his control and space in the situation, I don't see how in any way that could bring you closer...I think you've been trying to establish that but he's been pushing away trying to appease you with the little things like conversation about the future and such that really have no bearing on the present...who cares about the future that may or may not come? for men that's like pushing a bill off that he can give himself time to pay or possibly extend in the future when that time comes...sometimes indefinitely until you get the hint that he's not going to actually pay it.

 

I get the impression Ruby that you are a fixer/nurturer type, that wants to see potential rather than heed the warnings or issues present. You see things as promising, and you feel like If you put enough work into something then good things will come out of it. But this is likely a pattern you have in relationships, you likely choose men who are emotionally unavailable so that you can feel validated and like you can fix them into better people. Just because a man has good "qualities" doesn't make him a keeper, there's the emotional side of it..the investment side...what's important is not what he can or has to give that you see inside but what he is willing to give and share with you...It's like seeing that rockstar in yourself thinking you'll make a dream into a reality, then you're 50 and looking in the mirror still wondering why the dream hasn't materialized.

 

It's good to be optimistic and have faith in things in the beginning for some people, but when the walls are crumbling down those people tend not to realize that until it's too late....they continue to invest, and then they wonder why things didn't work out...but honestly I think some people get something out of life doing that, even when it fails, they still somehow find value and appreciation for their experience out of it...and sometimes I wonder as human beings If moments in time are the reason why we put so much effort into everything even IF the rest is hard work or hardly makes sense...It's unfortunate we settle for so little IMO.

[veggirl]

Ruby's given this guy loads of chances, she is the one who has been flexible and understanding. He is still the same. She asked him to be more open and whatnot, he responded by playing childish games when he was sick. She has adjusted, he hasn't. She has been patient with him, he hasn't made any ground! He is emotionally retarded when it comes to romantic relationships.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Ruby Slippers

Yes - but the problem is that he doesn't communicate any of this. The only thing he really said in this regard is that he has adapted a lot for me. I asked him if he was glad he had or not. And he said yes, he's glad he has.

 

Maybe he accepts you for who you are more then you accept him for who he is. What partner would you rather be with if you were looking on the outside to the inside in this relationship?

 

 

I haven't said anything to him about dumping him. I'm discussing that here and thinking it through on my own. All I asked him for today was NOT to just come to my house (because I couldn't sleep all night and was still in bed when he was trying to come over and I just felt like crap), but wait until I get home from the show to talk on the phone. I haven't said I won't see him, or I'm breaking up with him, or anything like that.

 

I never suspected that you did say anything to him about dumping him. Most people don't talk to their actual partner about the idea of them getting dumped.

 

The problem I see is one minute he is wonderful and the next he is terrible. You don't give him enough credit for the good and he are too harsh on the bad. You aren't the only person with this problem too. I do think women in general tend to do this. Myself included in that. But if you pay attention to the way he accepts you for you, free spirit and all, then maybe there is something for you to learn there.

 

When he told me how me not asking him to stay made him feel, I immediately told him that I wanted nothing more than for him to stay, and I was also feeling sad that he just blazed out of here. But I couldn't do a damn thing about it when he was running out the door! And when he told me how he felt, he was totally attacking me and spouting nonsense about how I obviously don't care because I didn't make him stay, or come over to his place - even though he told me in many different ways he didn't want either of those things. I kept opening my door, knocking on his - and his answer was always no. He gave me no possible outcome except a losing one.

 

That's bullcrap Ruby. He did not only give you a "losing" outcome. You gave yourself that. I also don't see a situation where you are the one always doing the knocking and he is always doing the shutting. From how you described it, I see a guy really trying but certainly has his own struggles and is far from perfect. And I see a woman that is also trying but clearly has her own struggles and is far from perfect.

 

Did you once say, "I'm sorry that I hurt you feelings. I sincerely never meant to but I see that I did anyway. Next time, I will ask you to stay because that's what I would have wanted too"?

 

You realize that in your comments above that you are still being judgemental of him right? You could have called him, you could have done something.

 

I am not saying this guy is perfect. All I am saying is that you aren't as "right" as you think you are either. Yeah, this guy has some issues. Try meeting a person that doesn't. From what you've shared he sounds pretty cool overall. He certainly has some work to do though but so do you. The thing is, I think you only want him to be honest and communicative about things when it's positive for you. You have to take the good with the bad. Any man you date isn't only going to have feel good communication that makes you feel good. Sometimes it's going to be messy and complicated. Maybe you need to ask yourself why you have a hard time dealing with the more messy and complicated stuff.

 

 

And then he kept that under his hat all weekend, all the way until a few days before he leaves town, before he said anything about it. He didn't give me the chance to be there for him. He shut me out and convinced himself I was the one shutting him out. That makes the getaway nice and easy, doesn't it? Seems cowardly and uncaring to me.

 

Well I am sorry but you don't get to dictate how long someone needs to process information. Yeah, he kept it under his hat all weekend. So what? If that's what he needed to do, that's what he needed to do. I have read that when it comes to men, sometimes they need time to process information since women are usually much more well practiced at it then men do to how we are differently socialized.

 

Have you ever considered that he DID feel shut out. Even if you didn't think so? At what point does his feelings get to be valid too? When you say they are valid? Why do you get to dictate when he should talk to you and how he should do it all the time? I think you both felt shut out and I don't think you are being very open to the possibility that maybe some of your actions made him feel a certain way.

 

 

No, I want him to tell me when I can do something about it. It's always best to express your emotions when they come up, rather than letting them fester. He waited until he wasn't sick anymore to tell me he wanted me to spend time with him when he was sick. So there's no way for me to fix the situation now. He expected me to read his mind, and got his feelings hurt when I didn't.

 

In an ideal world it is always best to say what is on your mind right away but sometimes when you are in a situation you don't always know what exactly is on your mind even if you are feeling certain negative things. Sometimes someone needs to take some time to process those things. Even I need to do that sometimes.

 

Again, bullcrap that there is no way for you to "fix the situation". You don't need to fix the situation by being there for him when he is sick in the moment. You can fix the situation by talking to him and letting him know you understand that he feels a certain way and it wasn't your intention to make him feel that way. And next time he is sick? You both have better resources to work it out.

 

I wish he would post here. I wish he would stop worrying so much about being polite and say what he actually means.

 

Good. But think long and hard about the issue he may have with you and how you would feel if he was the one going back between wanting to dump you or not. Maybe he already is there. I don't know.

 

I need to accept being with a guy who has never even told me he cares about me, outside of an argument, when he most likely felt that he had to?

 

You need to learn to accept people for who they are. That means taking the good with the bad. I think he HAS told you he cares about you but you aren't seeing his way of communication.

 

No, I don't have to accept or love a man like that. If that's the deal, that tells me there's a big problem somewhere.

 

If you don't want to accept a man for who he is, if you don't want to accept this man for who he is, then break up with him and be done with it.

 

I approached and got to know him with an open heart, ready and willing to love him. But you can't love a person who won't let you love them!

 

I don't think this is about him not "letting" you love him. I think this is about you and not really having the open heart you think you have.

[Emilia]

this guy definitely doesn't sound ready to invest, and with him moving away I feel like this is his way of getting some distance without having to say it out loud, It's a job and everyone understands that...but I think we all know that If he was that concerned about this relationship and felt really invested, his decisions may have been different and he would have handled it in a different way and with much more emotional weight and burden...If he feels pressured I think he feels happy about this giving him space and more breathing room as you cannot just go down whenever you want. He'll know when you're coming and when you're going, and that'll give him back his control and space in the situation, I don't see how in any way that could bring you closer...I think you've been trying to establish that but he's been pushing away trying to appease you with the little things like conversation about the future and such that really have no bearing on the present...who cares about the future that may or may not come? for men that's like pushing a bill off that he can give himself time to pay or possibly extend in the future when that time comes...sometimes indefinitely until you get the hint that he's not going to actually pay it.

 

 

I think this sums it all up well

[KungFuJoe]

What I've learned is that a relationship should just....flow. There shouldn't be too much thought behind it. If you start finding yourself always questioning WHY your partner is acting the way they do and it completely befuddles you time and time again, it may just be that you're not compatible.

 

That's not to say that arguments or disagreements are bad. It all depends. With my first two girlfriends, we didn't even so much as have a bad thing to say to each other for months on. But after that initial phase, the arguments and fighting started as we found out more and more about each other and started to realize there were some definite personality conflicts.

 

With my current wife...my god we fought like crazy right from the get go. Long story short, I was thrown in jail twice in our first year and a half due to fights we had. I'm talking crazy crazy **** where my windshield gets kicked in and people are jumping in cars as they are driving off dukes of hazard style. Nothing is worse than sitting in jail hoping your girlfriend doesn't hate you too much to bail your ass out.

 

Anyways...long story short, I'm still with THAT woman...it's been over twelve years...we fight MAYBE once or twice a year (no joke) and we get along insanely well. Even though we fought like rabid animals, it was always something NOT related to personality or character. It was pretty much that we both went out drinking and partying like almost every night and we're both *******s when we're drunk. . And even when we fought...I still knew she was one for me. That I really really liked her as a person and who she was. And we always were on the same page emotionally.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think you should go with your gut and be honest. If you find yourself making excuses about someone's personality...I dunno...maybe he/she is just not the right person.

[Ruby Slippers]

I haven't read all the responses that closely yet - but I will. Just wanted to update. Now he and I are both sick, and I'm sitting at the bottom of a mountain of work.

 

He came over last night once I got back from the show and is sleeping in my bed now. He said since he got sick and started taking the antibiotics, he's been sleeping a lot. We are obviously both very stressed right now. Since he got here, we've been cuddling, being sweet, talking, sleeping, trying to figure out if this is worth it.

 

This morning, we pulled out our calendars and made a plan for visiting each other every weekend for the next month, starting with me going with him to the new city this weekend (tentative - pending approval on my new place). It took some negotiating, but we came up with a plan we agree on. He said I drive a hard bargain, spanked me on the butt, and said I'm going to get a spanking for being so tough on him. Ha!

 

I was totally straight in saying that if this is too hard, we don't have to continue, and we'll let each other go in peace.

 

Last night, during a bunch of pointless bickering, I looked over at him and saw him behaving just like I tend to do when I'm worried and self-defensive. I was resisting being the one to melt the ice, but I finally just did it. I looked him in the eyes and told him I'm sorry I didn't ask him to stay when he was sick, or go to his place. I said I wanted him to stay, I missed him all weekend, and next time it will be different. He immediately softened, said he missed me all weekend too, and apologized for not being straight with me about what he really wanted.

 

We shall see how it goes. I'm preparing myself for any outcome, while also giving things a fair shot.

[Woggle]

You shouldn't apologize for not reading his mind. That is not something people should get angry over.

[Ruby Slippers]

You shouldn't apologize for not reading his mind. That is not something people should get angry over.

Yeah. Believe me, I have my doubts. I kind of feel like once again, I was the bigger person. But my counselor pointed out that whereas I'm further along than he is emotionally and have to teach him some things, he might be further along than me in other ways and teaches me there. And it's true. He has been a HUGE wakeup call for me in my career. Though he's only 31, I'm pretty amazed by how much he's accomplished in his career. And seeing how he does it totally motivates me to do the same. I love that influence, and need it.

 

And the fact is, at several points when I was ready to bail on him over the past couple of days, he was very sensible and level-headed, saying that the weekend didn't go that well, but we shouldn't just stop seeing each other because one weekend got messed up - let's put it behind us and move on to better things.

 

We've both made mistakes and have our flaws.

 

Everyone I trust in my life - good friends and my therapist - has advised me not to bail at this point. And I think they're right.

 

If it's not workable, that will only become clearer as it goes on. And if it gets to the point where I realize the investment isn't worth it, believe me, I'll have no problem letting him go. If there's one thing I'm good at, it's making a clean break.

 

And now I don't worry about meeting other men and finding a good match if this doesn't work out. I'm back on top of my game now, and good guys are flirting with me all the time. I know I'll be just fine whatever happens.

[Babolat]

Wow, a lot has happened since my last post! I am like your BF, older, so I get him. I also get you Ruby since you are like my GF, well ex I guess as I ended things last night, or we are taking a break, not sure.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Babolat

[Woggle]

Yeah. Believe me, I have my doubts. I kind of feel like once again, I was the bigger person. But my counselor pointed out that whereas I'm further along than he is emotionally and have to teach him some things, he might be further along than me in other ways and teaches me there. And it's true. He has been a HUGE wakeup call for me in my career. Though he's only 31, I'm pretty amazed by how much he's accomplished in his career. And seeing how he does it totally motivates me to do the same. I love that influence, and need it.

 

And the fact is, at several points when I was ready to bail on him over the past couple of days, he was very sensible and level-headed, saying that the weekend didn't go that well, but we shouldn't just stop seeing each other because one weekend got messed up - let's put it behind us and move on to better things.

 

We've both made mistakes and have our flaws.

 

Everyone I trust in my life - good friends and my therapist - has advised me not to bail at this point. And I think they're right.

 

If it's not workable, that will only become clearer as it goes on. And if it gets to the point where I realize the investment isn't worth it, believe me, I'll have no problem letting him go. If there's one thing I'm good at, it's making a clean break.

 

And now I don't worry about meeting other men and finding a good match if this doesn't work out. I'm back on top of my game now, and good guys are flirting with me all the time. I know I'll be just fine whatever happens.

 

If you do give him another chance tell that if he has an issue then come right out and say it and if he doesn't he has no right to get angry over something you did not know he had an issue with. Expecting somebody to read your mind is a very common complaint men have of women and it is just as wrong the other way.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I haven't read all the responses that closely yet - but I will. Just wanted to update. Now he and I are both sick, and I'm sitting at the bottom of a mountain of work.

 

He came over last night once I got back from the show and is sleeping in my bed now. He said since he got sick and started taking the antibiotics, he's been sleeping a lot. We are obviously both very stressed right now. Since he got here, we've been cuddling, being sweet, talking, sleeping, trying to figure out if this is worth it.

 

This morning, we pulled out our calendars and made a plan for visiting each other every weekend for the next month, starting with me going with him to the new city this weekend (tentative - pending approval on my new place). It took some negotiating, but we came up with a plan we agree on. He said I drive a hard bargain, spanked me on the butt, and said I'm going to get a spanking for being so tough on him. Ha!

 

I was totally straight in saying that if this is too hard, we don't have to continue, and we'll let each other go in peace.

 

Last night, during a bunch of pointless bickering, I looked over at him and saw him behaving just like I tend to do when I'm worried and self-defensive. I was resisting being the one to melt the ice, but I finally just did it. I looked him in the eyes and told him I'm sorry I didn't ask him to stay when he was sick, or go to his place. I said I wanted him to stay, I missed him all weekend, and next time it will be different. He immediately softened, said he missed me all weekend too, and apologized for not being straight with me about what he really wanted.

 

We shall see how it goes. I'm preparing myself for any outcome, while also giving things a fair shot.

 

Now that is what I'm talking about. Good job Ruby.

[hestheone66]

I think that we are often attracted to people that are vastly different to us.

 

However, this attraction perhaps is 'meant' to be transitory... we meet, learn about the differences and are endlessly fascinated.

 

As women, we often cannot resist 'fixing' a project, which inevitably causes tension in the project.

 

I think that basic compatibility where we don't have to explain what we want or need, as the other person just 'gets' us, is the secret for long lasting happiness and stress -free.

 

Some of us are more drawn to emotional drama than others.

 

I wish you well Ruby and you've obviously grow a lot from the experience. I like that you're not bitter.

 

Good Luck

[Eternal Sunshine]

Ruby, I can relate to your bf in this instance.

 

Nearly ALL the men I was with acted like me being sick was always a big annoyance and a downer. I would also probably leave like your bf did, but would feel let down if my SO didn't ask me to stay.

 

People just deal horribly with any kind of illness and generally only want to be around you when you are fun and energetic. I have noticed such a strong pattern in this that I now hide if I feel sick for as long as I can :/

 

And yeah - if my SO offered me the kind of apology that you did, I would soften as well and be all awwww

[Ruby Slippers]

Well, the plan is for me to go with him this weekend. I haven't found out if I've got the new place yet, but if I don't get it, I'll figure something out.

 

It's worth mentioning that I just started my period last night, and was hyper-emotional with PMS the past few days. I told him this, but said that even though I was more emotional at the time, all this stuff needed to be expressed eventually.

 

Last night, I had pretty much made up my mind that it was a bad idea to go, and I was calmly telling him why, crying the whole time. I was basically saying that it doesn't seem like he likes me enough for this to be worth it. Even though I was crying, I was being calm and clear. I said if we part ways now, it's nothing to feel too bad about, as we had 3 great months together, and I'm glad for that. I talked about how I feel sad because he's not romantic or emotionally expressive, and he said that's just not the way he is and it doesn't mean he doesn't like me.

 

He said he wants me to come with him, and he'll come visit me next weekend, and we're going to get through this rough spot and things will get better. He's been consistent with that all along. So, he convinced me to go.

 

He was very cuddly all night, and kept kissing me and being very affectionate throughout the night.

 

Then I felt doubtful again this morning, and said again that I don't think I should go. We talked about even more stuff. He said, "Are you dumping me?" I said no, we should figure this out together and agree on the best course - but we are at a critical juncture, and if we're going to say good-bye, we should probably do it now, since we won't see each other again if we don't continue.

 

He started crying, which kind of shocked me. He went to the bathroom, washed his face, and actually said, "I got something in my eye."

 

After more talking, we agreed I will go this weekend, and he'll come see me next weekend, and then we'll see.

 

I think we both feel like emotional basketcases right now, because as soon as we made the decision to continue, we both transformed and were grinning like fools.

 

I'm going to try to put the doubts and heavy stuff aside for a few days and just have a good time with him this weekend.

[hestheone66]

For a free spirit.. you over think a lot..

 

you have yearned for emotional connection

 

you have it...

 

i call upon the free spirit in you to embrace the adventures in this weekend... and like you said about not finding a place yet... 'if it doesn't work out, i'll figure something out'

 

you are resilient.

 

let that resilience = bravery = no point being brave by shutting down something which has such immense potential..

 

you need a break from routine as well no doubt you will have fun and make some happy memories..

[Ruby Slippers]

For a free spirit.. you over think a lot..

Yeah, he told me that last night, too. He said, "We've got to take that big brain out of your head and remove about half of it." And I just said, "It's a package deal." I realize he could say the same.

 

i call upon the free spirit in you to embrace the adventures in this weekend...

Message received. I couldn't agree more.

 

you need a break from routine as well no doubt you will have fun and make some happy memories..

You are so right I'm taking my camera. If nothing else, I'm going to have a fun little weekend in a city I've never visited.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Ruby Slippers

[Ninjainpajamas]

Well, the plan is for me to go with him this weekend. I haven't found out if I've got the new place yet, but if I don't get it, I'll figure something out.

 

It's worth mentioning that I just started my period last night, and was hyper-emotional with PMS the past few days. I told him this, but said that even though I was more emotional at the time, all this stuff needed to be expressed eventually.

 

Last night, I had pretty much made up my mind that it was a bad idea to go, and I was calmly telling him why, crying the whole time. I was basically saying that it doesn't seem like he likes me enough for this to be worth it. Even though I was crying, I was being calm and clear. I said if we part ways now, it's nothing to feel too bad about, as we had 3 great months together, and I'm glad for that. I talked about how I feel sad because he's not romantic or emotionally expressive, and he said that's just not the way he is and it doesn't mean he doesn't like me.

 

He said he wants me to come with him, and he'll come visit me next weekend, and we're going to get through this rough spot and things will get better. He's been consistent with that all along. So, he convinced me to go.

 

He was very cuddly all night, and kept kissing me and being very affectionate throughout the night.

 

Then I felt doubtful again this morning, and said again that I don't think I should go. We talked about even more stuff. He said, "Are you dumping me?" I said no, we should figure this out together and agree on the best course - but we are at a critical juncture, and if we're going to say good-bye, we should probably do it now, since we won't see each other again if we don't continue.

 

He started crying, which kind of shocked me. He went to the bathroom, washed his face, and actually said, "I got something in my eye."

 

After more talking, we agreed I will go this weekend, and he'll come see me next weekend, and then we'll see.

 

I think we both feel like emotional basketcases right now, because as soon as we made the decision to continue, we both transformed and were grinning like fools.

 

I'm going to try to put the doubts and heavy stuff aside for a few days and just have a good time with him this weekend.

 

You can keep telling yourself that you're ok with parting ways If that's what it comes to until you're blue in the face but everything you've done and put out for this guy has been complete and utter investment with very little reciprocation with your needs and what is important here.

 

- Constant excuses galore with his behavior masked in "understanding"...

 

- Stepping down from issues or away from big topics because you put on the pressure, he didn't bend/mold so you back away with another feasible explanation that is convincing to yourself but doesn't really show any real progress

 

- Searching for and exacerbating all the little things and signs that show "promise" or "potential"...meaning you're looking to give a lot of credit for whenever he puts in a small amount of effort or expression for a day or a few hours then continuing to turn a blind eye to the elephant in the room for the sake of "letting it rest for another day"

 

I wouldn't even say you are over-thinking this, rather than doing the typical hum and drum that women do when they are becoming more and more attached to a man and developing more emotions...It's as If women rather put themselves in a position where they can't possibly turn away or leave this...right now you speak about how It's 3 months and It's ok If you have to part but we all know you'll be heartbroken over it...and you push his buttons only to get a desired response out of him which seems to be the most profound responses...as IF the form of manipulation is to pull away just so he has to pull you back in...yet not like you would make that increasingly difficult as the real secret is you want him to pull you back in and If he pulled away or left you'd be devastated because then you couldn't convince yourself anymore that maybe the kind of progress or promise that is there really isn't...so you continue down that road of bonding and investment with a man who clearly seems to still have a wall up in hopes that If you understand him and he understand you well enough that he'll learn to change and grow with you.

 

With that kind of mindset that means you decrease your own self-awareness, ignore the red flags and hot button issues, and you eventually conform and mold to a mans will and needs so that you can be with you...eventually you lose yourself so much in it because you convince yourself all these little "changes" are just adjustments or "improvements"...then you create this one-sided lop-sided one dimensional relationship and then you wonder why you're not getting more out of a man or more investment? when it was you who bent to his will and settle for whatever he was willing to provide "hoping" he would change and become more instead of looking at HOW HE ACTUALLY IS.

 

No no no, women always feel they can change, work, nurture, comfort, support that out of a man. Well let me tell you the big secret I've always been telling women....MEN KNOW WHEN THEY ARE WITH A WOMAN WHO THEY WANT TO MAKE THOSE SACRIFICES AND CHANGES FOR. It's not about you forcing, pushing, nudging, ever so gently caressing him as he moves forward....that is what is called RESISTENCE and that is what men GIVE when they are not completely invested emotionally into the relationship...does that and will that ever make sense enough to women before they stop insisting on changing a mans behavior or "working through his problems" until everything is right and bright.

 

Just because you fail 1000 times does not mean you will succeed once in all situations and circumstances...it does not work that way when it comes to how OTHER PEOPLE FEEL. How men feel is their own feelings, there is nothing you can do to dig that out from under the mud and out will come this beating loving heart you always dreamed of. THE MAN has to want to open the DOOR TO HIS HEART. Without that you will never succeed, without the man wanting or desiring to feel vulnerable he will ALWAYS protect himself...sometimes you need to save yourselves ladies instead of waiting for these men to kick you out the door for you...It can save you a lot of time and heartache.

 

Sorry for another lecture people but with the views this thread is getting I know a lot of people are reading and I hope from a third person perspectives they can see the things that they are doing that Ruby has done resonating in their own lives and personal experiences...this is what it looks like folks, this is how it starts, this is how it feels and the way you tell yourself how men feel for you rather than expecting to make the efforts on their own...you know something is wrong and not right but you push anyway! and guess what? the longer you fight for a man the harder it is to walk away, and once your emotions cross a line we all know you aren't willing or capable to walk away 90 percent of the time if not more or for some or most, even always...It is often people who are to blame for their own heartbreak because of their insistence and persistence, insecurities and own personal issues that lead them down the road to heartbreak, because the writing is always all over the wall!

[veggirl]

I do have to agree with Ninja at this point. This has become "too much" for just 3 mos in. It's getting too hard, it shouldn't be this hard, it shouldn't require this much understanding and compromise. I think this latest would've been the straw that broke the camels back for me. At this point I feel like he is blowing hot air. At first it was nice, admirable how he was trying, but now it's like still?! Still "trying" and still getting nowhere. I wouldn't go this weekend, Ruby. Honestly. If he wants to come see you next weekend, maybe let him, but I wouldn't go there with him this weekend.

[Ruby Slippers]

Just checking in before we take off in a bit.

 

Ninja, I think you have a rather cynical and bleak point of view. Do you ever give a positive forecast for any relationship? I don't think I've seen it on this forum. It seems to always be gloom and doom with you. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm reading your comments, but some of them are just way off.

 

Will I be sad if it doesn't work out? Sure. That's natural. Will I be heart-broken? I don't think so. Yes, I have feelings for him and would like things to work out. But I'm paying attention to what's going on and considering all the time how I feel about it. If it's not right, I'll end it and move on, with some lessons learned.

 

I've talked to my counselor very openly about everything that has happened. This is a woman who never encourages me to settle for less than what is good for me. She always advocates standing up for my needs and wants and making sure they're met. And in the past, when I've found myself in a go-nowhere situation with a guy, she was decisive and very clear in giving advice on why disengaging was a healthy move, and exactly how I could do it in a healthy way.

 

I've basically spent the last few sessions trying to convince her of why I should dump him. She said the choice is ultimately mine, of course, but she's found holes in all my arguments and made a strong case for not dumping him.

 

He came over last night, and with the decision made that we will continue, the stress and tension were obviously lifted from us both. He was affectionate, expressive, attentive, sweet.

 

I've given him every opportunity to leave the situation without any flack from me. If he didn't want to continue, why would he keep coming back? Why would he be working to convince me to give it a chance to grow and improve? If he were so resistant and not invested, don't you think he would have taken any of the dozen or more opportunities I've given him to walk out the door?

[Emilia]

I've given him every opportunity to leave the situation without any flack from me. If he didn't want to continue, why would he keep coming back?

 

For sex. He is leaving you, quite literally.

 

Why would he be working to convince me to give it a chance to grow and improve? If he were so resistant and not invested, don't you think he would have taken any of the dozen or more opportunities I've given him to walk out the door?

 

Sex

[denise_xo]

For sex. He is leaving you, quite literally.

 

 

 

Sex

 

But that doesn't really make sense in the context of a long distance relationship, does it? I mean, if he just wanted sex, he could find that locally (in his new location). Would presumably be much easier.