Free spirit with conservative

[hestheone66]

Hi I am in a similar situation as you. The guy I'm seeing is similarly much more conservative, has a conservative profession and is naturally reserved. The fact that the guy you're seeing is prepared to discuss and be open with you (albeit, because you're the one bringing it up) is a great sign. He is showing that he is willing to try and change. Keeping up the communication is the way to go.

Sounds like he's partly reserved, but partly a guy.. don't keep trying to change him, he's obviously really into you. You also need to change, not just the behaviours... but maybe the expectations regarding his affection etc. Enjoy each other's company in what you have to offer each other.

 

Also be wary of your (as I see it, happy to b e wrong) attempt to sabbotage the relationship, ie cut your losses conversation... sounds a little like a manipulation trying to get him to be more declarative.. just saying

[LeoNguyen]

Ruby,

 

Congratulations on your official status!

 

You've got a very good man by your side.

 

Don't lose the one you got.

 

Most women only realize it after it's too late.

 

Whatever happens, be sure to give it your all and fight for him and the relationship.

 

I can promise you that it's going to take you a veeery long time to find another guy like him.

 

He reminds me of the boyfriends who gave up their lives protecting their girlfriend from the gunman during the "Dark Knight" shooting a few months back.

'Dark Knight' Shooting: 3 Boyfriends Die Shielding Girlfriends During Aurora Massacre (VIDEO, PHOTO)

 

This guy will definitely be there for you through thick and thin.

[Ruby Slippers]

This guy will definitely be there for you through thick and thin.

I want to believe that - but we had another little incident this weekend...

 

I spent the weekend at his place for the first time. He had not invited me over in 2 months of dating, which seemed kind of suspicious to me, but I was trying not to read too much into it, since I live 10 miles away from him, don't have a car, and he always drives to me or picks me up. But I dropped some hints, and then finally told him it seems odd to me that he's never invited me over. So he did, and that was last weekend. I didn't like that I had to push this, too, but that seems to be the pattern.

 

We had a wonderful time - but a disagreement at the end. We had gone to the grocery store the night before to get some instant coffee. He doesn't drink coffee, but I do, and I didn't want to have to run out and get coffee anytime I stay at his place. So we got the coffee, and the next morning, I fixed myself a cup. We were about to have breakfast and then I was going to take off.

 

I opened a cupboard and asked him where I could put the coffee. He said I should take it with me. I explained that I'm not going to drink instant coffee at home, and I only got it so I'd have coffee when I'm at his place - so it makes no sense to keep bringing it back and forth. He again insisted that I take it with me, and this hurt my feelings. He could leave anything at my place and I wouldn't care - I couldn't understand why he was so opposed to me leaving some coffee in his cupboard, when he has plenty of room to spare and it shouldn't make any difference.

 

So I gave up, put the coffee in my purse, and tried to subdue the tears welling up. It made me feel sad and unwelcome. And my first instinct was to just get out of there, so I said I was gonna go. He blocked the kitchen door and said, "Don't run away." He had just finished cooking breakfast, but I couldn't eat anything, since I was feeling like I was about to cry. When I felt I couldn't hold it in anymore, I went to the bathroom and cried a little. He tried to follow me, but I wouldn't let him. Then we sat on the couch and talked. He sat a bit away from me, and said, "Come here." I said, "YOU come here!" And he did, put his arms around me, and said, "Trust me." It was kind of hard and stumbling, but he persisted. I was the one who kept wanting to escape the situation.

 

Once we had calmed down a little, I told him this was like the Sex & the City episode when Carrie complains that Mr. Big is like Teflon, and "nothing sticks". She leaves some stuff at his place once, and he brings it back to her. I didn't plan this - it just made sense to leave the coffee there, since it's the only place I'll drink it.

 

I've never been with a guy who had any problem with this kind of thing. Quite the contrary. Most of them welcome little signs of my presence in their life and home, and even offer to get anything else to make me feel more at home while I'm there. And I would do the same for him.

 

The rest of the weekend was great. He cooked every meal for us and it felt natural and good to do all different kinds of things with him at his place. But I'm still hurt and holding a bit of a grudge about the coffee thing - because I just don't understand it.

 

He has texted and called a little more than he had been since the incident, and today's his birthday and we're going out. So I'll just try to be fun and light-hearted, even though I still feel sad about it.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Ruby Slippers

[Emilia]

I opened a cupboard and asked him where I could put the coffee. He said I should take it with me. I explained that I'm not going to drink instant coffee at home, and I only got it so I'd have coffee when I'm at his place - so it makes no sense to keep bringing it back and forth. He again insisted that I take it with me, and this hurt my feelings. He could leave anything at my place and I wouldn't care - I couldn't understand why he was so opposed to me leaving some coffee in his cupboard, when he has plenty of room to spare and it shouldn't make any difference.

 

So I gave up, put the coffee in my purse, and tried to subdue the tears welling up. It made me feel sad and unwelcome. And my first instinct was to just get out of there, so I said I was gonna go. He blocked the kitchen door and said, "Don't run away." He had just finished cooking breakfast, but I couldn't eat anything, since I was feeling like I was about to cry. When I felt I couldn't hold it in anymore, I went to the bathroom and cried a little. He tried to follow me, but I wouldn't let him. Then we sat on the couch and talked. He sat a bit away from me, and said, "Come here." I said, "YOU come here!" And he did, put his arms around me, and said, "Trust me." It was kind of hard and stumbling, but he persisted. I was the one who kept wanting to escape the situation.

 

Once we had calmed down a little, I told him this was like the Sex & the City episode when Carrie complains that Mr. Big is like Teflon, and "nothing sticks". She leaves some stuff at his place once, and he brings it back to her. I didn't plan this - it just made sense to leave the coffee there, since it's the only place I'll drink it.

 

I've never been with a guy who had any problem with this kind of thing. Quite the contrary. Most of them welcome little signs of my presence in their life and home, and even offer to get anything else to make me feel more at home while I'm there. And I would do the same for him.

 

The rest of the weekend was great. He cooked every meal for us and it felt natural and good to do all different kinds of things with him at his place. But I'm still hurt and holding a bit of a grudge about the coffee thing - because I just don't understand it.

 

He has texted and called a little more than he had been since the incident, and today's his birthday and we're going out. So I'll just try to be fun and light-hearted, even though I still feel sad about it.

 

That's a shame. He seemed to be so open and showing you his vulnerable side, didn't think he would think about the coffee twice. It really isn't a big deal unless someone wants to make it so. My most recent ex I didn't even like that much had a toothbrush at my place because he once forgot his so I gave him a brand new spare one. I didn't think twice about his keeping it in my bathroom.

[Ruby Slippers]

That's a shame. He seemed to be so open and showing you his vulnerable side, didn't think he would think about the coffee twice. It really isn't a big deal unless someone wants to make it so. My most recent ex I didn't even like that much had a toothbrush at my place because he once forgot his so I gave him a brand new spare one. I didn't think twice about his keeping it in my bathroom.

I forgot to mention that a few minutes into the conversation, his attitude changed a bit, as if he understood what I was saying, and then he insisted that I leave the coffee in the cupboard. I was fighting that, saying I wanted him to do this stuff because he wants to, not because he has to. I also told him that I'm getting tired of having to ask for stuff that I feel should happen naturally. He took the coffee out of my purse and put it in the cupboard.

 

Honestly, I just want to dump him. But I'm not going to do that on his birthday. I don't think I want him to stay over tonight, though. I'm just too sad about this, and I feel very self-protective now.

[ThaWholigan]

That's a shame. He seemed to be so open and showing you his vulnerable side, didn't think he would think about the coffee twice. It really isn't a big deal unless someone wants to make it so. My most recent ex I didn't even like that much had a toothbrush at my place because he once forgot his so I gave him a brand new spare one. I didn't think twice about his keeping it in my bathroom.

It will take a while for this guy to fully open up IMO, it won't happen overnight. I think Ruby should let this one slide a little. It's obviously a small thing that could potentially grow into something big which is why Ruby is upset and understandably so in my opinion, or it could just be his previous mode of being fighting back against his new-found lease of life with you causing him to break down lifelong barriers.

[Emilia]

I forgot to mention that a few minutes into the conversation, his attitude changed a bit, as if he understood what I was saying, and then he insisted that I leave the coffee in the cupboard. I was fighting that, saying I wanted him to do this stuff because he wants to, not because he has to. I also told him that I'm getting tired of having to ask for stuff that I feel should happen naturally. He took the coffee out of my purse and put it in the cupboard.

 

Honestly, I just want to dump him. But I'm not going to do that on his birthday. I don't think I want him to stay over tonight, though. I'm just too sad about this, and I feel very self-protective now.

 

No, I think you should give him time as the Wholigan suggests. He IS getting better but it's something that will take a little longer. I went through a phase like that too but guys aren't as sensitive so they were more accepting. He just has to get used to a different type of thinking and you haven't been together for that long.

 

It will take a while for this guy to fully open up IMO, it won't happen overnight. I think Ruby should let this one slide a little. It's obviously a small thing that could potentially grow into something big which is why Ruby is upset and understandably so in my opinion, or it could just be his previous mode of being fighting back against his new-found lease of life with you causing him to break down lifelong barriers.

[Radu]

First of all i hope this relationship works out for you.

 

Ruby, there is no perfect match.

You will not find someone like this.

The ideea that our perfect SO is out there is a lie, it's good for Hollywood movies, but that's about it.

 

Best you can do is find someone who engages you and is willing to see your point of view, who is trying to empathise with you.

And that's already damn hard to get.

 

In his own way, this guy cares about you.

I would even go as far as to say that between the two of you, he seems more willing to hash out a compromise than you are.

I'm an introvert, over signs of affection in public are embarassing to me, even holding hands was a major step for me.

This guy is getting over these things for you.

 

Also keep in mind ... that Carrie is basically what we see on this board in the rationalizations of WS and OM/W.

In that show, she does not end up happy.

Samantha does not end up happy, though you got to respect the fact that she was at least honest in her life [something that Carrie missed].

Miranda and Charlotte were willing to compromise and adapt.

[Ruby Slippers]

Believe me, I do not hold Carrie Bradshaw up as any model of how I want to be! I always thought she was an idiot for pining over emotionally unavailable Mr. Big while taking for granted the guy who really liked her. And I don't want to be like that. I want to be with someone who likes me and doesn't have a problem showing it.

 

I agree that he is opening up, and that's what keeps me engaged. If he hadn't done that, I'd have been gone already.

 

I'm glad that I'm being honest with myself about what works for me and what doesn't. Even though this guy is a total catch, if he doesn't do it for me, I will let him go and I think I'll be at peace with that.

 

But I won't do that just yet.

[Emilia]

Hope not. I really think he deserves a chance. He is a good guy even if he is a little bit of a spaz.

[Radu]

You could always download the seasons of Dharma & Greg.

[january2011]

With all due respect, he seems a little obtuse regarding the nuances of romantic interaction: taking things at face value and not being able to read the subtleties.

 

That doesn't mean that he hasn't fallen for you and doesn't want to make it work though! It just means that you have to meet him more than halfway and be more upfront and direct about how you would like to be treated rather than expecting him to read you and intuitively work out your heart's desire.

 

I foresee a lot of "little talks," which, in my opinion is good thing for any relationship. But requires a little adjustment if you are more used to being in a relationship where you just go with the flow and whatever happens, happens.

[melodymatters]

I'm sorry Ruby, that would bother me a lot too. I guess it's not technically a dumping offense, but when someone makes me feel less than special, especially so early on, I just naturally find myself pulling away and that sounds like what you are feeling.

 

I am beyond terrible at holding things in and am blunt to a fault. Thankfully those who love me can handle it, so if it was me I'd have to just spill it and say " You know, that coffee thing reeeeaaalllllly bothered me. If i'm in an exclusive relationship where we have SEX ( penis in my vagina= OK, Coffee in your cupboard....= NOT OK ?!?), the thought that a jar of stinking coffee in your cupboard is too much of a commitment for you is making me feel like backing off on this whole thing" And then see what he says.

 

If a guy isn't wide eyed, can't stop thinking about me, WANTS momento's of me in his home, well...he's probably not the guy for me.

 

But then again, I'm an all in person, and most peoples paces confuse me, so this is just ONE opinion from a woman who's last two marriages basically started with him coming over one night and not really ever leaving. ( For those reading who might want to say something about that : the first one died suddenly while we were quite happily married and I'm currently blissfully married to #2 for going on a year now)

 

Good luck Ruby ! Feel free to PM me if you want someone to talk to !

[Ruby Slippers]

melody, you are so sweet

 

...if it was me I'd have to just spill it and say " You know, that coffee thing reeeeaaalllllly bothered me. If i'm in an exclusive relationship where we have SEX ( penis in my vagina= OK, Coffee in your cupboard....= NOT OK ?!?), the thought that a jar of stinking coffee in your cupboard is too much of a commitment for you is making me feel like backing off on this whole thing"

Exactly! That's why I don't want him to stay over tonight. If he fights having my coffee in his cupboard, I definitely don't feel good about letting his penis in my vagina!!

 

But it's his birthday, and I don't think that's the time for any serious talks. So I'll probably just try to have fun while we're out, give him his present, then not let him stay over. We can talk about this later. But something tells me he's going to see right through me and insist that we talk about it. We'll see.

 

Good luck Ruby ! Feel free to PM me if you want someone to talk to !

I appreciate that.

[ThaWholigan]

I feel like I understand this guy. I went leaps and bounds in understanding proper romantic behavior through a girl I wasn't even dating. Even now, I still curse that I am not able to date her, I almost think I'm not over it, which is weird considering I don't see her that much and never did previously. I digress.....

 

It took me a long time to understand certain behaviors and opening up in a certain way. Becoming comfortable with touching and giving affection, being emotionally expressive, etc....it took years for me to completely become comfortable with it. I still get anxious sometimes with girls in some instances but I persevere because I have to be 100%.

 

This guy is probably quite a bit older and maybe has the same progression towards openness that I have. I think he is probably trying quite hard to adapt to your mode of expression and does seem to have the hang of it, but maybe he is still not quite fully aware of the significance of that particular incident with the coffee. Perhaps it was unconscious, a fear of losing the egoistic identity that he has lived with for so long. I speculate that your presence in his life is, almost literally, turning his inner world on it's head. Occasionally there will probably be incidents like this, where his past will rear it's head irregularly.

 

I think you should give him time, he still has a way to go. It's up to you however, and if your unconscious desire to be understood inside and out is insufficiently fulfilled, then it's your prerogative to leave. Perhaps this is a period of growth for both of you, and not just him.

[serial muse]

melody, you are so sweet

 

 

Exactly! That's why I don't want him to stay over tonight. If he fights having my coffee in his cupboard, I definitely don't feel good about letting his penis in my vagina!!

 

But it's his birthday, and I don't think that's the time for any serious talks. So I'll probably just try to have fun while we're out, give him his present, then not let him stay over. We can talk about this later. But something tells me he's going to see right through me and insist that we talk about it. We'll see.

 

 

I appreciate that.

 

The coffee thing is a bit odd - but I also think it's meaningful that when he learned it had emotional significance to you, he changed his mind about it and asked you to leave the coffee there. For whatever reason, he didn't realize it mattered before. But there is a VERY big difference between a guy who doesn't see significance in all of the same small gestures that you might, and a guy who doesn't care about how YOU feel. The latter is someone to dump immediately; the former is just a different human being. This is just more of the communication issue. I know it was hurtful, but if you can take a tiny step back you'll see it wasn't intended to hurt, it was a miscommunication. Kind of a weird one, but still.

 

Two months in is very early days yet.

 

I'm kind of curious, though - after he asked you to leave the coffee there, did he actually explain why he didn't want you to before? Is he a neat-freak? Very particular about what's in his cupboards? Hates the smell of coffee...or perhaps doesn't want it there as a temptation?? The mind boggles. I'm kind of joking...but I also want to point out that his not wanting the coffee around doesn't have to mean that he doesn't want it because it's yours and thus he's afraid of commitment! That's a dangerous assumption to make -- because clearly it could result in you responding by pulling away -- and it doesn't seem warranted here. (To my mind the real danger of SATC is that it was so reductive...all relationships became these tired cliches, with the emotionally unavailable man the hoariest of them all.)

Edited September 4, 2012 by serial muse

[Ruby Slippers]

Perhaps it was unconscious, a fear of losing the egoistic identity that he has lived with for so long. I speculate that your presence in his life is, almost literally, turning his inner world on it's head.

Yeah, this makes sense, and it's the best I could come up with. He is VERY independent and doesn't seem to need anyone or anything to be strong, productive, and successful. He told me that men often behave in very competitive ways with him, and he's very selective about who he befriends. Pretty much all women love him and turn into goo when interacting with him. This would annoy me a lot more if he weren't so neutral with them in response. I like that he's so strong and independent - but we're going to have to have some interdependence if we're going to be together.

 

The coffee thing is a bit odd - but I also think it's meaningful that when he learned it had emotional significance to you, he changed his mind about it and asked you to leave the coffee there.

 

I know it was hurtful, but if you can take a tiny step back you'll see it wasn't intended to hurt, it was a miscommunication. Kind of a weird one, but still.

Yeah, he did immediately soften and insist that we talk about it, when all I wanted to do was run away. He even said, "I didn't mean to hurt your feelings," and I said I know.

 

I'm kind of curious, though - after he asked you to leave the coffee there, did he actually explain why he didn't want you to before? Is he a neat-freak? Very particular about what's in his cupboards? Hates the smell of coffee...or perhaps doesn't want it there as a temptation?? The mind boggles.

No! And I asked him why. I said if I could just understand WHY, and it was a reason I could understand, then I wouldn't take it personally. He didn't say anything that made any sense to me. He said, "I wanted you to have it with you so you could drink it at home." But I had already told him the night before that the instant coffee was for HIS house, since he doesn't have a coffee pot. I have one at home, so would never drink instant coffee here.

 

I still don't really understand it. The best I can come up with is something like ThaWholigan said - it's his environment that he's in control of, and he's not very open to having that changed by anyone or anything else. But to me, that says he's not ready to let someone into his life - and that brings me back to the idea that if he's not ready to let me in his life, it makes no sense for me to let him into my bed.

 

(To my mind the real danger of SATC is that it was so reductive...all relationships became these tired cliches, with the emotionally unavailable man the hoariest of them all.)

I agree completely. It only came to my mind because it's something I've NEVER experienced, and the events were quite similar to the ones covered in that episode.

[Ninjainpajamas]

First of all I really want to compliment you on how open you've been about your relationship on these forums and bold in taking any compliments/criticisms and analyzing by the community...that's not an easy thing to do for anyone, even If you are somewhat anonymous.

 

I think you have a lot of people here that support you throughout all of this, and you're a likable person who seems genuine and honest about yourself. I think it shows how much effort and balance you are putting forward in developing as a person.

 

I thought you had a really good update the other day or whatever day it was about becoming exclusive in a relationship, I thought that might be the corner you've been needing to turn with this man as he seems to be developing more slowly than "average" which may be because of his conservative values. I thought he might be warming up and more willing to put forth more transparent and express more emotion and vulnerability....essentially letting you in and having more confidence in the relationship. At least for me relationship means couple, companionship, lots of time, love, affection, passion, intimacy on all levels, long-talks, cuddling and movies, and really becoming connected with a person on a deeper more significant level. So from my perspective, I don't understand why there seems to be hesitation, he's not exactly in his early 20's..he should be more open than what he is showing.

 

I think you've done a great job at getting through a guy who's got his walls and keeps his emotional and physical distance...an arms length kind of guy.

 

However I'm only disappointed when he doesn't make genuine gestures of expression towards you that are vulnerable for men...I understand that there are some who believe this is just a matter of time and patience, a level of comfort and companionship that needs to develop, however at the "boyfriend" stage I don't agree there should be disputes about you coming over to stay at his house nor putting coffee or any other personal belongings in his house. I disappointed that he still has you chasing him and making all the gestures, Is this just a routine he is becoming used to and expects? are you pressuring him too much where he's just giving in because he has to not to lose you? Does he feel emotions and thoughts that he fears or doesn't know how to express to you? It leaves a lot of questions.

 

I feel like his gestures are slow because they are in some degree a level of resistance...whether that's because he is not genuinely feeling a certain way or conflicted, or because he's got commitment issues. Do you think his values are of not having a GF spend nights over his house? is that reserved for marriage?

 

Another light that keeps going on unfortunately Is I think this man has a bigger ego than you may give him credit for or that he seems to reveal...he seems to have a less than transparent attitude with that because he plays it down and his conservative values delude it. I think If he was a more extroverted man he would show his cards much more easily in this regard. But I get the sense we're speaking or theorizing over how this man feels and why acts this or that way instead of getting the real answers. And the answers he does give you are not answers that Id be happy with personally, because it seems to be tip toeing and avoiding.

 

Men who are confident, leaders and independent in one element does not mean they are this way in all...some men have specialized confidence and boldness in only what they are good at or confident in, therefore be careful whether to accept this as a universal preconception...he's actually being pretty timid and passive in this relationship with you from my perspective at least. He doesn't seem to have the same attitude in terms of communication and expression. Being a leader isn't just about telling others what to do, it's about being able to build a rapport with others, connect with others, understand and listen to others, to be humble and genuine, and it takes a truly confident man to be vulnerable imo...so he definitely seems insecure to me as well. Insecure about what? maybe losing his life and lifestyle for a woman? maybe he's not ready to give that up?

 

If this guy and I were cowboys in a bar, I'd keep my hand close to my pistol...you know just in case, somethings awry about this guy even though he has a decent facade and comes off like a pretty good nice guy with conservative values...however this guy doesn't seem to add up right, he's not transparent and he's probably got an ego on him, at least to me may mean this guys got a bigger horn to toot than he's exposing, so although I'll smile have a drink and play some cards with the man...I wouldn't be surprised If he snapped or revealed a side of himself that was "out of character"...I know that the quiet and reserved always have more to say than they show, always feel more than they express...and usually it bottles up, you never know exactly what's going on in that little head of theirs because of that unless you add up the subtleties and clues because they won't outright tell you. Not that I don't like the man, just making sure he wouldn't get the jump on me in case he reaches for the trigger in case something "snaps"...but no hard feelings! pew pew got ya first!

 

I would recommend never coming to conclusions and assumptions of why this man is being the way he is, I see all too commonly women making excuses for men for the sake of continuing on, once you start doing that it just never changes, you shouldn't expect to live so much in the dark. Try to strive for expression and clarity from him, continue the communication.

 

However when you put on the pressure you need to also back off and let him come to you, there is a pacing situation in here that seems to be an out of balance...he may feel you are too much in control and therefore he becomes vulnerable and backs up. You've got to let him feel like the man and in control, you can't let your emotions compel your insistent persistence in the relationship, so don't carry the weight and responsibility on your back...you've got to let a man come to you, I see too many women chase and chase and chase men thinking that If they don't they're going to get away from them. You've got to let a man show and express that he loves and wants to be with you, or you build a completely one-sided relationship and you end up convincing yourself for the sake of peace of mind that he's investing himself just as much, however the reality is you're really the one controlling and sending hints and expectations to a man which is why he's reacting.

 

Don't condition a man to getting everything easy and served on a silver platter then later complain that he is not reciprocating or doing his part.

[veggirl]

Ugh that is annoying! Sorry Ruby.

 

I don't get this guy. He sounds great but then it's like...damn how clueless can you be?! It's a shame it's his bday today cause I would absolutely want to say something like Melody posted, but of course you don't want to ruin his birthday. So then what...wait 4 days to bring it up, by then it'll be like "dang she isn't over that?!" bleh.

 

I do not think this is a dumpable offense, but I do think it is something to take note of. I know he is inexperienced in Rs and whatnot but c'mon.

 

I think he has made strides for you so that's very cool. My feelings would be hurt, but I think I would try to let it go considering he has made steps in the past to adjusting for you (and you have for him as well). I would probably be a little hyper-aware for a while though.

 

I'm just too sad about this, and I feel very self-protective now.

 

I would be as well.

[LeoNguyen]

Ruby,

 

I'd love to be on your side and say, "Oh yeah he's such a dick! I can't believe he didn't let you leave the coffee at his place. You would have done it for him!"

 

And that's what your girlfriends would say to you. They'll make you feel better for the moment because they're confirming your belief that he's not doing what he should be doing. But it's never going to help you in the long-term. It'll just make you more resentful of your guy.

 

You're in a very similar situation that many women often find themselves in.

 

You don't like a certain quality in a man. In this case, he's not emotionally expressive enough.

 

And you try to change him. To get him to open up more.

 

It works.

 

But it becomes frustrating because while you do get some results, it feels like he should just do it without you even having to ask.

 

He should the say right things without you having to tell him.

 

How great would it be if he could just say, "Just leave the coffee at my place. I wouldn't want to you drive home just to get some coffee. That's ridiculous!"

 

So when he stumbles on these things, it seems you're both taking 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

 

Unfortunately, he's a man.

 

He can't read your mind every time.

 

No man has ever succeeded in doing that before, and there will never be one who will.

 

Just like there will never be a woman who can read a man's mind every single time (even his mom, the woman who raise him, can't even do it).

 

You keep saying how he's doing this and that wrong, and how he's not performing at the level you want right now...

 

Let me ask you this...(and I hope you understand that I want you both to be happy).

 

How have you been sensitive to what he really wants and needs?

 

Sure you've been patient with him opening up slowly...but he's opening up for you in the first place. He's doing it for you.

 

I'm sure you're a good girlfriend. You compliment him. You encourage him when he lost his job. You've been there for him.

 

But does he ever tried to change you?

 

So that you would be able to give him exactly what he wants, in exactly the right amount, at the exact moment he wants it.

 

And if you fail to do it, I'm sure he doesn't go tell his friends that you're not right for him and that he should dump you.

 

He'd be crazy if he does that. But it's okay for you to do it?

 

Because that's what you've been doing since the beginning of this relationship.

 

It's obvious that you have a heart of gold, and being with him is pushing you out of your comfort zone too.

 

And that's why you've been growing so much with this guy.

 

If you leave him, I can guarantee you that your next guy is going to have a different set of problems.

 

He may be more emotionally expressive, but he's not as independent, strong, or as reliable as this guy.

 

P.S. I'm sure there's a reason why he didn't let you leave the coffee at his place. It has nothing to do with who you are as a human being, but everything to do what with it means to him.

 

If you can talk to him about it and dig deep, you'll find out what it is.

 

Good luck Ruby.

[Ruby Slippers]

I hear what you're saying. He initiates texts, phone calls, date invitations, and sex 100% of the time. I'm extremely conservative with all of that, mostly because I want to make sure he's interested and willing to make the effort.

 

Where I'm coming toward him more is with expressions of feelings. I hold them in as long as I can, and then I just can't anymore.

 

I think you're right on the ego issues. The other night in bed, he was telling me how he scored 99% or higher on all these national tests in school, and how people treated him differently after that. I didn't say anything at the time, but I went through the same thing.

 

And yeah, whatever his issues are, my instincts are telling me to pull back and keep my cards closer to my chest, so that's what I'm doing. I'm not being mean or shutting him out, just protecting myself. If this is worth it, he'll do the right things to reassure me. And if it's not, we'll move on.

[Ruby Slippers]

And that's what your girlfriends would say to you. They'll make you feel better for the moment because they're confirming your belief that he's not doing what he should be doing.

Actually, I've talked about this with several friends, and none of them said that. They all said it sounds like it was kind of a silly spat and advised me to take it in stride - but continue standing up for what I want and need.

 

How have you been sensitive to what he really wants and needs?

I think I have. I noticed right away that when I try to lighten things up and have some fun, he gets all tight and tense, almost anxious. I told him I noticed this, and asked him what would be more helpful from me - a fun and playful attitude to entice him, or just backing off completely. He said he likes it when I'm fun and playful and entice him to do things, and if he doesn't want that, he'll let me know.

 

I have asked him about several different things: "Is there anything I can do to help?"

 

But does he ever tried to change you?

He has told me I'm "wild" and "aggressive", and frowned on more extroverted behavior (occasional, because I'm mostly quite introverted). He has never asked me to tone any of this down, but it's obvious he responds well to that. When I'm more demure and conservative, he starts chasing me more and being more expressive. It seems like a natural balance of energy. When I'm more reserved, he's working to draw me out.

 

So that you would be able to give him exactly what he wants, in exactly the right amount, at the exact moment he wants it.

One place where he can be quite assertive and demanding is in bed. He resists sometimes when I give him specific instructions on what I would like - but he doesn't hesitate to give me direct instructions on what he wants. The sex is getting better all the time, it's been very good from the start, and he's beginning to listen when I tell him what I want, so I don't mind this too much.

 

And if you fail to do it, I'm sure he doesn't go tell his friends that you're not right for him and that he should dump you.

 

He'd be crazy if he does that. But it's okay for you to do it?

Yeah, but he hardly tells his friends anything. He tries to be all strong and stoic on his own. I count on my friends to check me when I'm being irrational, and I do the same for them.

 

It's obvious that you have a heart of gold, and being with him is pushing you out of your comfort zone too.

 

And that's why you've been growing so much with this guy.

Thanks. I am glad we met, no matter how it works out.

 

P.S. I'm sure there's a reason why he didn't let you leave the coffee at his place. It has nothing to do with who you are as a human being, but everything to do what with it means to him.

 

If you can talk to him about it and dig deep, you'll find out what it is.

 

Good luck Ruby.

We're going to have to talk about it eventually, and I think you're right. Thanks for your advice

Edited September 4, 2012 by Ruby Slippers

[veggirl]

Ruby, how limited IS his experience? are you his first real girlfriend, has he had a ltr? I think you have told us before but I don't recall.

[Chocolat]

Ruby, first off, let me say that I think you are one of the sanest, most well grounded posters here. If anyone is ready for the real deal, it's you.

 

Is it possible this guy has Asperger's or is somewhere on the PDD spectrum (mild)? It sounds as though he genuinely cares about you, but just doesn't "get" some of the stuff most of us (male and female) take for granted. FWIW, I don't read disinterest in his actions but rather a certain level of cluelessness. There's a disconnect of sorts but, based on what you've written, I don't think it stems from his feelings for you, but something else within him. That's why I asked about PDD and hope this has not offended you.

 

Rooting for you!

[Ruby Slippers]

Ruby, how limited IS his experience? are you his first real girlfriend, has he had a ltr? I think you have told us before but I don't recall.

His longest "relationship" was 3 months, and he only started dating last year. Yeah, I know. He says he's always had a lot of interest from women, but wanted to wait to have sex until he was in love. But then he said he figured he could be waiting forever, so just went for it.

 

I had a "let's see" attitude about it up front, and I guess wasn't expecting to like him so much. Now, in many important ways, he seems like the best match for me yet.

 

He told me he liked that girl he dated for 3 months, but was surprised when she didn't call him back after he got home from a 3-week trip out of town and called her. Turns out he didn't have ANY contact with her while he was gone for 3 weeks, after 3 months of dating, and didn't see anything strange about that. I said I'm not surprised she disappeared, given that he didn't bother to keep in touch.

 

Ruby, first off, let me say that I think you are one of the sanest, most well grounded posters here. If anyone is ready for the real deal, it's you.

Aww, thanks

 

Is it possible this guy has Asperger's or is somewhere on the PDD spectrum (mild)? It sounds as though he genuinely cares about you, but just doesn't "get" some of the stuff most of us (male and female) take for granted. FWIW, I don't read disinterest in his actions but rather a certain level of cluelessness. There's a disconnect of sorts but, based on what you've written, I don't think it stems from his feelings for you, but something else within him. That's why I asked about PDD and hope this has not offended you.

No offense taken.

 

I was talking to him last week about one of the people who works for me. He's brilliant in his subjects (technology, science, engineering), and has Asperger's. He's been a friend of mine for 10 years, and I deal with his mild social awkwardness because he's so brilliant. My boyfriend made some comments about the condition and said he doesn't have anything like that - which was funny, because I never implied that he did.

 

Then we got into a discussion of how maybe we both have mild OCD, because I like everything to be in order and tend to clean kind of obsessively, and he washes his hands more often than the average person (but I wouldn't say obsessively).

 

I do tend to attract these super smart and accomplished but kind of robotic/emotionally cold guys. But I have no idea if he's got that condition. I don't think so, but I'm no expert. I know that social problems and clumsiness are symptoms, and neither of those things is a problem for him. He's shy, but good with people when he needs to be, and he was a leading athlete in school for years.

 

Rooting for you!

I appreciate that

Edited September 4, 2012 by Ruby Slippers