Free spirit with conservative

[veggirl]

Awww okay now it sounds even different again! Not affectionate in the first couple months is one thing but resisting doing fun things is quite another like what kinda stuff do you suggest that he balks at?

[Ruby Slippers]

If this sounds like you, then you are not a free spirit, rather you are someone who gets distracted by novelty at the expense of quality, dignity, or even fun.

This is not me in the slightest. In some ways I am very conservative. I tend to order the same thing over and over at my favorite restaurants. When I love a man, my desire for him only grows in time, and other men might as well be invisible as far as desire goes.

 

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I don't feel like discussing it anymore right now. I just feel stressed and frustrated about it. And I'm going out of town on Thursday and have a ton of crap to get done before I go.

 

We had planned for him to come over tomorrow night, but now who knows? I'll update if anything significant happens.

[veggirl]

Like what exactly?

 

You remind me a lot of me and my best friend. My friend is like you, enjoys constantly doing everything different every time, while I have the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", mentality.

 

The outcome? Instead of getting the moderately priced and tasty Old GrandDad to drink every weekend, my friend is constantly experimenting with new whiskys, 99% of it we sit in the house wishing he had gotten old granddad instead while pounding down some horrible exotic crap.

 

Food is the same story. I prefer to get myself a nice mushroom pizza from my favorite pizzaria most of the time i go out, but my friend constantly has to try some awful, novelty exotic food. 25 bucks I don't have for a couple of decorative leaves and some small piece of meat on a plate at the french restaurant and other idiocy like that just because my idiot friend wanted to try it.

 

If this sounds like you, then you are not a free spirit, rather you are someone who gets distracted by novelty at the expense of quality, dignity, or even fun.

 

She does not sound like that. She is not a child, she is not distracted by the nearest shiney object.

 

You're ignoring what she is saying. The guy balks at her ideas and he is cold. There is a middle ground you know, and she seems willing to meet there; he doesn't.

[Ruby Slippers]

Awww. He called tonight and we had a great talk and made our plan for tomorrow. He's coming over and we're gonna go out for dinner - and he offered to drive me to the airport on Thursday morning. I have to get up super early (like 4:00 am), and said I didn't want to subject him to that and throw off his day. But he insisted it wouldn't be a problem and he would be happy to do it.

 

I wasn't going to ask, but I'm glad he offered. And I really wouldn't have minded taking the train - but it's gonna be a lot nicer and more fun for him to take me and see me off.

[serial muse]

Awww. He called tonight and we had a great talk and made our plan for tomorrow. He's coming over and we're gonna go out for dinner - and he offered to drive me to the airport on Thursday morning. I have to get up super early (like 4:00 am), and said I didn't want to subject him to that and throw off his day. But he insisted it wouldn't be a problem and he would be happy to do it.

 

I wasn't going to ask, but I'm glad he offered. And I really wouldn't have minded taking the train - but it's gonna be a lot nicer and more fun for him to take me and see me off.

 

Sounds like you're on a bit of a roller coaster about this guy!

 

I think you obviously know best what your boundaries are, and I read your frustration loud and clear. I want you to be happy.

 

But since you're back and forth, I guess maybe I'll try to reflect back what it looks like here on LS. As Imajerk says, the truth about who he is and what he's open to expressing is probably somewhere between the giddy "he's so thoughtful" high and the "he's zero fun" low.

 

So I guess the question for you is - what's the real dealbreaker? It's hard to tell (maybe because you yourself aren't yet sure at this point) whether the "not fun" thing is a red herring that masks hurt feelings about him not expressing affection sufficiently, or whether you really think he hates fun.

 

Seriously, though, if what you want is someone who is inherently spontaneous and lively, then it sounds like he's just not going to be that person. That's something you already know about him, and that he is being up front about. So if that's the case, it's not going to work out. Which is good to know!

 

But if what you're actually concerned about is whether he can learn to better express his feelings for you, that sounds more promising (although possibly still more effort than you want to invest). Even with people that I felt I had an instant "we so get each other" thing, there turned out to be plenty of misunderstandings and disappointments; nobody really is in your head with you. It's just not fair to expect people to be, particularly after so short a time together. As your therapist noted, at the very least it's reasonable to try communicating your needs and then see whether he wants to work on that with you. And then I totally think it's fair to think about where your limit is - if you feel that your emotional landscapes are just too different, that's completely reasonable!

 

(That said - frankly, I think it's a bit off that he tried to shush you from talking about that stuff when you wanted to. And I'm glad you persevered despite that.)

 

Anyway. One last thing I wanted to mention. You said this, earlier:

 

I have a relatively fearless and open heart. He has a fearful, suspicious, more closed heart. I'm loving, creative, and wild - he's analytical, reliable, and cold.

 

So that's kind of what I was talking about in my previous posts - this way of framing him is a way of diminishing him rather than respecting your differences, and that's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you really want it not to work, this is a good way to make that happen. (Of course, I get that you could have just been talking from a place of hurt feelings.) But if you are considering actually trying to make it work with this guy, reframing this perception you have so that nobody is cast as the bad guy is probably a good starting point...

 

Anyway, I don't want to push you in either direction - I'm sure you'll figure it out. Wishing you luck!

[Ruby Slippers]

Sounds like you're on a bit of a roller coaster about this guy!

Excellent post, and yes, you are so right. I feel conflicted about him for sure. What I keep coming back to is that it's probably a good thing that our involvement is evoking strong positive and negative reactions. No matter what, I feel that being with him is certainly challenging me on several different levels. However it all turns out, right now, it feels mostly good to be challenged to be brave and bring my best - on communication, being true to myself, managing feelings of anxiety or insecurity, and all that good stuff.

 

(That said - frankly, I think it's a bit off that he tried to shush you from talking about that stuff when you wanted to. And I'm glad you persevered despite that.)

I agree. But another time, he said, "You can talk to me about anything that's on your mind, and I'll always listen and respond." And the thing is that he DOES, every time. Every single thing I've brought up, he has responded to, with a good attitude. Every single one! So it sounds like he might be a bit conflicted, too. Sometimes, he seems up to the challenge of meeting me in the middle. Other times, he resists. To his credit, he has never once suggested breaking things off as a solution. I'm the one who keeps wanting to bail.

 

So that's kind of what I was talking about in my previous posts - this way of framing him is a way of diminishing him rather than respecting your differences, and that's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you really want it not to work, this is a good way to make that happen. (Of course, I get that you could have just been talking from a place of hurt feelings.) But if you are considering actually trying to make it work with this guy, reframing this perception you have so that nobody is cast as the bad guy is probably a good starting point...

This is an excellent point. What I have been trying to do is just spend time with him without any specific goal, so we can see what happens naturally. For the first 2 months, I think I was very calm and rational about it all. But obviously some feelings were building up, and then they just had to come out. He seems uncomfortable and stressed out by expressions of emotion - but if he's going to be with me, he's going to have to deal with them, as that's just part of who I am.

 

It's certainly never boring!

[Ruby Slippers]

Just a little update...

 

We got up at 3:30 the morning of my trip, and he drove me to the airport. It was sweet, I expressed my thanks, and he really did seem happy to do that for me. (And I love the way he drives. He's not conservative on the road! He drives like a bat out of hell - but safely, and somehow never gets tickets.)

 

He's been texting me more and more each day, and he's called me at the end of every day I've been on my trip. I told him it's a bright spot in my day, and he said it's the same for him.

 

I found out that his family was not very affectionate or emotionally expressive at all. He said the only time they hug or anything is when they haven't seen each other for months or longer. My family, on the other hand, was very affectionate. We were huggy, touchy, and playful with each other all the time, and I always liked that.

 

When he took me out for dinner the night before my trip, he gave me several spontaneous kisses throughout the evening, which is a first! And he was being playful and fun with it. Every time he does it, I just can't help grinning and laughing. At first, he was like, "Why are you laughing at me?!" But I told him I'm just happy and I love it and can't help smiling and laughing.

 

I can tell he misses me. He said the weekend wasn't going to be any fun with me out of town. It sounds like he's being very focused in searching for a new job, though. I think it's good that we're getting a chance to miss each other right now. He's already planning our next date, too. I went out for hibachi with my family, and he says he's never tried it and wants to take me out for that when I get back.

 

All my family and friends have asked about him, and everyone says in spite of being conservative and so on, he sounds like an amazing guy, and they think I should stick with it for a while and see how it goes. His birthday is in a couple of weeks, and I'll definitely stick with it until then.

[Imajerk17]

Your last post was kind of how I pictured your guy being all along, Ruby Slippers, and it was why I expressed real confusion as to why you were considering breaking up with him.

 

You mentioned how he is making you grow. Did it ever occur to you that you are making HIM grow at least as much? That he needs you as much as you need him?

[ThaWholigan]

Your last post was kind of how I pictured your guy being all along, Ruby Slippers, and it was why I expressed real confusion as to why you were considering breaking up with him.

 

You mentioned how he is making you grow. Did it ever occur to you that you are making HIM grow at least as much? That he needs you as much as you need him?

12th house

[FitChick]

If his birthday is in a couple of weeks, he must be a Virgo which would explain a lot. Find out his time and place of birth in addition to the date. You will learn a lot. Do a compatibility chart or synastry as well.

 

We are with people to learn more about ourselves. If it was too easy, it would be boring.

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah, I think he's missing me. He's keeping in regular contact by text, already called me once today, and said he's going to call me tonight, too.

 

I told him I got his birthday present today, and we started talking about what he wants to do for his birthday in a couple of weeks. He said we can do whatever I want and anything will be fun if we're together We also got on the subject of little weekend trips, and were talking about wood-burning fireplaces in log cabins. He's never been to one, and said that thinking about it was turning him on. It's huge for him to tell me that, and I was so tickled. He's usually so proper and reserved about this kind of thing.

 

He already offered to pick me up from the airport and seems excited for me to get back to town. I'm excited, too! I miss him and can't wait to see him again.

 

I also told him that when I get back, I want to go on some hot dates at romantic places so I can bust out my new hot date dresses. He liked that idea.

 

I'm antsy for my trip to end so I can see him again. I'm feeling optimistic and excited about things!

[Ruby Slippers]

I talked to my counselor about all this today, and her advice basically boiled down to: "Speak up when you need or want something, and enjoy what you have today."

 

She said he's clearly communicating he likes me, by stepping up on everything. And she says he does sound like a real equal, someone who can challenge me just as much as I do him, and this sounds really good for me.

 

I admitted that I'm sometimes intimidated by how amazing he is. In addition to being a smart, hard-working, conscientious, good guy, he's also very good-looking. All my friends and family have asked about him, and several of them have said when I showed them his picture, "Oh my god, he's gorgeous. He looks like a model." I'm cute enough, but I'm no model. He could easily get some trophy girl.

 

But I found some good stuff on this topic right here on LS.

 

This part in particular makes a lot of sense:

 

I've had a few really great "hottie" guy friends who, I think, really appreciate the heart-to-hearts and intellectual curiosity.

 

Beyond being hot, he's totally brilliant. Our conversation is amazing, and covers the whole gamut of experience. I think I push him intellectually just as much as he does me. I'm guessing he'd be bored with anyone less than his intellectual equal.

 

This part, too:

 

The key, IMO, is how they were socialized and the peer group they identify with. Invariably, emphasis was placed upon achievement, the work process and social connection, using their bodies and their brains rather than their appearance. Thus, they came to identify themselves for who they are rather than how their outward appearance affects their world. I've seen the same in women. Super beautiful, but so down to earth and genuine that one could not help but respect them and appreciate their talents. It is like their beauty is superfluous.

 

That's so him. He knows he's good-looking because of all the attention he gets. But he just seems so pure-hearted about it. He never flirts back with fawning women. He waited till his late 20s to have sex, because he was holding out for real love. And he seems to view all the attention as a silly side novelty, mostly a distraction from the serious business of life.

 

So maybe I should stop working so hard to loosen him up. The positive side of him being so conservative is that he doesn't seem to be looking elsewhere. He's focused on me and what we have together. When we're together, it pretty much feels like it's just the two of us and the world is our oyster.

 

Clearly, my challenge right now is to be confident and keep doing all the good things I need to do to be a catch myself. That's what I will do. However things work out with him, this is a good thing.

[Ruby Slippers]

Another happy update!

 

He picked me up from the airport yesterday morning, and it was sooo good to see him. He commented later that this woman was watching us kiss hello with a sappy grin on her face, and said he thinks we're a good-looking couple. I noticed two men doing the same thing. I agreed that we do complement each other very well

 

Later, he told me I look different after my trip. He said, "Your eyes are even bluer, and your skin is golden and radiant." Yep, he missed me

 

So, he dropped me off at home because he needed to get back to work (he's working from home until his job ends). He called me later and told me he had an irritating phone call about work, and said he was feeling depressed about the job situation. I talked to him for a bit about it, trying to cheer him up. Then he said he knew that seeing me would make him feel a lot better, and asked if he could come over. I said "helll yes!"

 

We had such a good time. We ordered pizza, cuddled up in a hundred different ways, and had the hottest and sweetest sex we've had yet - three times! He was playing with incense and burned our names into a piece of paper with the tip, which I posted on my fridge. It's so cute.

 

He tried a little bit of dirty talk, for the first time ever!! This is something I had said that I thought would be hot. It totally was! I asked him later what he thought of it, and he said it really turned him on to say the stuff he was thinking out loud.

 

We were both just grinning and laughing and glowing all night and morning. We talked until late into the night. He kept saying, "Talk to me more. When it's quiet, I start worrying about my job." So I was just entertaining him and cheering him up, making him laugh. He loved it. We found even more things we have in common.

 

And we have a date tomorrow night. I am happy

[veggirl]

Awww :bunny::bunny: That is the cutest! :)

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah, I'm walking on clouds today. Very hard to concentrate on work!

 

My counselor said: "You are trying to protect yourself from something you can't protect yourself from - having your heart broken."

 

That shut me up. Cuz she's right.

 

If he breaks my heart, I can take it. No sense keeping mine closed because I'm afraid.

[veggirl]

Yeah, I'm walking on clouds today. Very hard to concentrate on work!

 

My counselor said: "You are trying to protect yourself from something you can't protect yourself from - having your heart broken."

 

That shut me up. Cuz she's right.

 

If he breaks my heart, I can take it. No sense keeping mine closed because I'm afraid.

 

Your counselor sounds very smart!

 

It sounds like you and your guy balance each other out really well, so glad you guys worked through your little tangle with just some communication and he is meeting you in the middle now-what a great sign! Very cool

[Ninjainpajamas]

Yeah, I'm walking on clouds today. Very hard to concentrate on work!

 

My counselor said: "You are trying to protect yourself from something you can't protect yourself from - having your heart broken."

 

That shut me up. Cuz she's right.

 

If he breaks my heart, I can take it. No sense keeping mine closed because I'm afraid.

 

 

You don't seem like the type to keep yourself emotionally contained for very long...this seems to just be apart of who you are, and at some point resistance becomes futile.

 

I think you're looking for a reason to just let go but I don't see he's given you a great reason to do so yet to be honest...a lot of your updates are nice and sweet lately for living in the moment but in the big picture unfortunately doesn't say a lot because those are the easier things for men to do and change, I feel like you're just pining over and exacerbating the thing he is doing that are rather normal yet seeing as very profound and remarkable. I also see you trying to conform to him as well, trying carefully not to rattle the cage as much as possible and be just someone he likes very much by doing things his way and adapting to his behavior and needs.

 

Now with you filling in the gap that he is dependent on you due to feeling depressed and neediness being in the situation he is in, it can definitely exacerbate the dependency you may feel he has on you because of that...but not because romantically you are growing closer, he's just sad and under pressure and depressed. You're like that bucket of icecream on a sad day for him.

 

My advice is to keep expanding on the communication and expression..you absolutely need to know how he feels and where his emotional level is, this doesn't only mean by being direct and probing for questions all the time but ask him how he's feeling, talk about him, talk about this attitude towards getting job and how his life is going...get to know what his thoughts are and where he stands in the big picture of things...listen to what he's saying.

 

All this surface stuff is really nice and enjoyable, but If you're going off that to determine the future this guy can easily back away or shut down on you and you'll be left perplexed...so be in the know of where he is emotionally.

 

Get to the real person, be real and genuine with each other, eliminate the barriers by confronting them not avoiding them...you'll progress If he's truly interested.

 

Are you not officially in a relationship yet?

[Ruby Slippers]

You make some good points, Ninja, and I appreciate your directness - but I also think there's a streak of cynicism running through your advice (across this forum). Cynicism and fear are the dead weights I'm shaking off right now, so I'm taking what you're saying with a grain of salt.

 

We have established that we're exclusive and took down our dating profiles. He said he deleted his, and he's never done that before. I'm very new to online dating, so I'm not sure what that means, and am not making any assumptions. Seems like a good thing, though. We also agreed we would both get full STD testing and share our results. I just got mine back (all negative, yay) and told him.

 

We haven't verbally established that we're boyfriend/girlfriend yet. It would be nice for him to call me his girlfriend, but I imagine it will happen when the time is right. Friends and family are already referring to him as my boyfriend, but that's their business. Personally, I'm not attached to assigning those kinds of labels, and I don't feel concerned that it hasn't been stated yet. It's only been 2 months. What matters is what we do, not what we name it. I like that he's taking his time and considering things carefully - even though sometimes I get scared he doesn't like me as much as I like him.

 

With him being laid off and in a tenuous position with his career, I think this is not a time to expect any comments on the future of the relationship. His future is uncertain, and it would be irresponsible to make commitments he can't keep. One of the things I love most about him is that he's totally reliable, and always comes through when he says he'll do something. For all I know, he might have to move to another city for work. Anything's possible at this point, and I'll accept whatever happens. I think this is a time for having fun and enjoying each other's company without any added pressure. With all the support and attention he's giving me, I'm happy with what we have right now.

 

He did have a talk with me while I was on my trip about his thoughts on marriage. He told me he wants to get married, and described his ideal partner a bit. And I have all the qualities he mentioned. Right from the beginning, he asked me all kinds of serious questions on whether I want kids, how many, how I would handle it if I accidentally got pregnant with him. Because of that, I felt from the start that he had serious intentions. From what he tells me, he has no problem ending things with a woman when there are incompatibilities. He is carefully screening me, which is fine. I'm pretty giddy about him, but I'm doing the same.

 

He told me that his mom asked recently if he was seeing anyone, but he said he didn't tell her about me because he knows she'll just start pushing him to get married. His parents are very old-school and are already putting pressure on him to marry and have a family. He also said she tends to comment on his character when he stops dating someone, as if he's doing something wrong, and he just doesn't want to hear it. He said, "I'll tell her about you when things are very solid."

 

He did tell his two best friends about me. He said I'm only the second girl he told them about. I thought it was interesting that his friends asked questions like, "Is she educated? Does she have a career she enjoys? Can you count on her?" It says a lot about their values.

 

I definitely feel I am seeing more and more of the real him. I told him that last night, that all these layers of the onion keep peeling back, and it's great.

 

I don't think either of us is being dependent or needy - we're expressing our normal emotions and asking each other for support. That's a healthy, caring thing to do. Yeah, he's stressed because of the job situation. I was stressed on my trip, because my relationship with my dad is complicated and a work in progress - and he was a total anchor for me during that time. Just knowing that he was there and cared about what was going on made it so much easier to deal with my family and the darkness running through it. He didn't have to be there for me in that way, but he wanted to. We had some of our longest and best conversations, and he commented several times on how much he likes talking to me. It was wonderful. I was happy to be there for him in return last night.

[Imajerk17]

Ruby Slippers, I actually think it would do you good to stop posting about your relationship for the time being. I mean this in the best possible way. What good would it do? Things are going quite well from your posts. You don't need to be considering any differing opinions at this point, as much as you simply need to enjoy how things are now and let things happen in the meanwhile, in my opinion.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Ruby Slippers]

Ruby Slippers, I actually think it would do you good to stop posting about your relationship for the time being. I mean this in the best possible way. What good would it do? Things are going well. You don't need to be considering any differing opinions as much as you simply need to enjoy how things are now and let things happen in the meanwhile, in my opinion.

Good point, and I agree!

 

I like documenting the sweet times here so when I'm feeling doubtful I can look back and remember the good stuff.

 

But you're right

[veggirl]

I don't think Ruby is changing her behavior to suit him. Reigning things in for someone who moves slower is not a bad thing. It's actually smart. She'd be more likely to crash and burn with someone who raced full speed ahead. Plus it's been 2 months, fun and light is how it SHOULD be right now. And he is meeting her halfway-why is that being ignored? He has opened up more and let down walls for her, it doesn't sound to me like she is bending over backwards to be what he wants. Anyway there is a natural ebb and flow of figuring personalities out and how they mesh at the beginning, there is nothing wrong with that. Seriously I am cynical as heck sometimes, esp on this board with the ridic relationships people get themselves into and post about, but this one doesn't sound anything like those...

[Ruby Slippers]

Thank you for the vote of confidence

[Ninjainpajamas]

I understand how that comes off, I knew it exactly when I typed it out and submitting it the impression it would give off. Ultimately though I don't want you to get hurt and I'm letting you know as far as my experience and as a man what I would be looking out for and concerned with and where I believe the true value in things are.

 

Ultimately I want to tell you to let go and give this a full shot, but something tells me not to trust him by his behavior..i know it's not the popular vote here at this time, and you're enjoying yourself but It's something I see a lot of women do and overlook and then end up surprised...I guess In my eyes I see a big red flag with his demeanor and behavior, but that doesn't mean it's not going to work out...I'm not a fortune teller I just interpret what I see and what you say in and honest way...you can take it or leave it and If I'm going to make a point I'm going to hit it hard, I'm not going to half ass it, that's just the way I am.

 

I truly do wish you good luck, I just don't want to see you get hurt...you could be in a relationship in a few weeks for example, and you are doing a good job at getting through to this guy, I'd just like to see him doing more emotional investment and expression for you. I'm just worried you're going to give this guy you're all and not even be in a relationship...do you think that's fair or reasonable for you to do or am I just being paranoid and demanding to you?

 

Your call Ruby...I'm just here to throw in my two cents, and perspective.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm just worried you're going to give this guy you're all and not even be in a relationship...do you think that's fair or reasonable for you to do or am I just being paranoid and demanding to you?

 

Your call Ruby...I'm just here to throw in my two cents, and perspective.

We are in a relationship - an exclusive dating relationship that is progressing. I'm not giving him anything that doesn't feel good to give. If this ended today, I wouldn't feel short-changed in any way. I feel that we have given and gotten equally. If anything, because I'm not quite as secure and confident as he is, I let him give more.

 

Even if it's short-lived, I'm glad for the time we're spending together. Meeting him has woken me up in a big way. Now I feel confident that whether it's with him or with someone else, I will marry a great guy and have a lovely family and great life. I'm aligning my actions and beliefs with that goal. That seemed pretty far away before. Now I feel confident I can make it happen.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Ruby Slippers

[Ruby Slippers]

Good news: he's officially my boyfriend. We were having another little relationship talk this weekend, and he said, "Of course you're my girlfriend - and I'm your boyfriend. We're going on dates, spending more and more time together, I deleted my profile and don't want to see anybody else, we're having sex - what else are we doing here?"

 

I said you can't assume anything, so I didn't assume that. He cemented the deal by doing some boyfriendy things this weekend - he fixed my AC and did hours of tech work on my computer, among other things. We also cooked real food together, and he spent two nights at my house, two more firsts. At the end of 48 hours together, he said, "Time always flies with you. It feels like I just got here." We talked about our strong compatibility, how we snap together and it just feels like a lock. I took a little extra time with my outfit and hair for our Friday night date, and he noticed and said so, several times. He's become much more verbally expressive on every subject, and it's great. Everything that I wondered about is being confirmed, and it's a relief. We even discussed how many kids we want to have! And the sex is going through the roof.

 

He told me that given where he's at in his career and the specialized nature of it, he needs to apply for jobs all over the country, and has been doing so. Then he said that if he gets a solid offer in another city, we'll talk about what to do then. He said he's considering us in the decision-making process, and ideally will find another good job here. I'm just being supportive and encouraging. I'll be sad if he moves, but worrying about it or being sad in advance is pointless. When he starts to sound a little down and out, I tell him he's got this, and say, "Show me what you can do." That always fires him up

 

Next weekend he's cooking one of his specialties for me at his house - he says he's a very good cook, and I believe that. I offered to help or assist in the kitchen, because I love to cook, too, but he said no, he wants to do everything.

 

Anything can happen, of course, but it's just getting better all the time. I went out with some friends for drinks last night, and they all said I'm glowing and obviously very happy. They're right