Mount Posted August 12, 2012 Posted August 12, 2012 Very good post RHW. That is so true, if there has a will, mountain can be moved. Those teeny tiny wives will not stop anything. But if there has no such will (at MM's end to contact you)....ML can continue finishing the sentence now.:laugh:
beach Posted August 12, 2012 Posted August 12, 2012 I can't see the lov of my life as just a learning experience. He had shaken my reality by just cutting me off. I don't understand it. I dont understand how someone so kind and gentle and caring that he couldn't leave her he said because it would ruin her life and likely kill her literally- could be so cruel to someone who has only ever been gentle and loving to him. His ACTIONS show he LOVES his wife MORE than his desire to BE with you. he can SAY anything - but unless his ACTIONs show he's absolutely ONLY with you - he actually committed MORE to HER!
Author MourningLosses Posted August 13, 2012 Author Posted August 13, 2012 It's just so hard to make sense of. I really really doubt this was one big charade where he didn't mean any of it. I just don't believe he lied to me that much. I could see the truth in his eyes. I could hear the emotion in his voice. I could hear he was still in love with me when he was asking for time to make the decision. Then I expected to be told when it was made but instead silence, and weeks later a cold email and then another in response to my gentle, very gentle, rebuke saying he should have told me properly. I was so gentle and understanding and I could see all the complexity of the situation. I just don't understand why he had to be so harsh. And it isn't like him. So I assume it was her condition. And she is distorting him. I know he went to counseling with her to let her down gently, hoping she too would see they were incompatible. She is a very black and white person, she sees no moral complexity, just her entitlement to him to fill a role in her life so he said. She can't see how we struggled with this. How no one wants to hurt her. But she want s to hurt me and I was hoping he or his brother would bring some perspective beyond her insecurity and vindictiveness. I realize I can't do anything about him not wanting to talk to me. But the fact is we can't just have no contact. We are going to cross paths at conferences and seminars for the rest of our careers. Surely we should grow up and work out how to do that now?
Mme. Chaucer Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Enough, already. I'm getting the impression that a restraining order is in your near future. What about your marriage? 3
Mount Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 No, he is currently not lying to you. You are lying to yourself based on what you are telling yourself. So STOP lying to yourself from this second. It's just so hard to make sense of. I really really doubt this was one big charade where he didn't mean any of it. I just don't believe he lied to me that much. I could see the truth in his eyes. I could hear the emotion in his voice. I could hear he was still in love with me when he was asking for time to make the decision. Then I expected to be told when it was made but instead silence, and weeks later a cold email and then another in response to my gentle, very gentle, rebuke saying he should have told me properly. I was so gentle and understanding and I could see all the complexity of the situation. I just don't understand why he had to be so harsh. And it isn't like him. So I assume it was her condition. And she is distorting him. I know he went to counseling with her to let her down gently, hoping she too would see they were incompatible. She is a very black and white person, she sees no moral complexity, just her entitlement to him to fill a role in her life so he said. She can't see how we struggled with this. How no one wants to hurt her. But she want s to hurt me and I was hoping he or his brother would bring some perspective beyond her insecurity and vindictiveness. I realize I can't do anything about him not wanting to talk to me. But the fact is we can't just have no contact. We are going to cross paths at conferences and seminars for the rest of our careers. Surely we should grow up and work out how to do that now? 2
Author MourningLosses Posted August 13, 2012 Author Posted August 13, 2012 Mme Chaucer my husband has what he wants out of the marriage: sex on demand and permanent childcare. He's happy, and none the wiser. Mount do you really think he was lying back then when he said he loved me? Was he deliberately stringing me along? That's what I can't believe. I see his feelings must have changed and I am trying to understand how and why. Did he suddenly realize she was wonderful and none of what he was saying about her was true? I doubt it. Exaggerated perhaps but not untrue.
alexandria35 Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 ML there are so many contradictions in your posts its mind boggling. I think your MM always did love his wife. You said yourself that you had to pursue him hard to get him interested and then you had to encourage him to tell you negative things about his wife. You try to present her as a cold unloving witch but then in another post you stated that you saw them once together and they looked so happy and she was looking at him with childlike adoration. Do you really not see how you led this MM astray? I usually don't feel sorry for any cheating MM and I certainly don't blame the OW for the MM's crappy decisions but I do kind of feel sorry for your MM because I think you really worked on him to try to get him to see things your way and it seems like you were able to influence him for a little while but then he came to his senses and realized how bad he was f**king up and he didn't want to lose his wife. I'm sure he's hugely relieved that he never went all the way over the line and had sex with you and that fact is probably going a long way in helping he and his wife reconcille. He may have said some negative things about his wife and there may even have been some truth to the things he said but so what? Every single one of us has good and bad traits. Just because he was shining the spotlight on some of her faults, much to your joy, doesn't mean that she doesn't have many many good qualities. The bottom line is that there's a reason he wants to be with her and I don't think it's because she beats him and keeps him chained up in a closet. Why do keep telling us that you absolutely must have contact with him for your job. There's nothing we can do about your current state of employment. Go tell him! I don't think your complaints will be well received but hey it's worth a shot, since he's the only one that actually do something about the situation. 4
whichwayisup Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 No, he is currently not lying to you. You are lying to yourself based on what you are telling yourself. So STOP lying to yourself from this second. Agree with this. Big time! This is borderline crazy. Mourning, you've convinced yourself a certain truth, then ask us questions, when anybody answers, you don't listen to anything because your mind is made up. You are lying to yourself. You're obsessing and yes, one day if you don't stop this, you could do something out of the norm. People are capable of doing crazy things when pushed past their emotional limit and the frame of mind you're in, isn't good. You really need to seek some therapy to help you cope with this, deal with it and put it to rest. It's consuming you 24-7 and that's not healthy at all. MM chose his wife. He loves what he has with her more than what he had with you. Accept this. He's moved on and wants you to let go of him, do NC and leave him alone. If you can't do this, don't be surprised to find a cop at your door (how do you explain that one to your husband) with a restraining order against you. NEVER say never. Please get some help. 1
whichwayisup Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Mme Chaucer my husband has what he wants out of the marriage: sex on demand and permanent childcare. He's happy, and none the wiser. Mount do you really think he was lying back then when he said he loved me? Was he deliberately stringing me along? That's what I can't believe. I see his feelings must have changed and I am trying to understand how and why. Did he suddenly realize she was wonderful and none of what he was saying about her was true? I doubt it. Exaggerated perhaps but not untrue. He may have loved you, but it wasn't deep love to keep him loving you forever. What he shared with his wife (that glue) is MUCH stronger with her than it was with you. Sorry that I'm being blunt but Mourning you really REALLY need a reality check and open your eyes. Take a step back and see this from another angle.. What you are doing now isn't working for you. (as Dr Phil would say).
Mount Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Here is my another reply to OP's post in marriage forum, but it sounds harsh though, just give you headsup. But it is now how I truly feel. Honestly now I feel that ML, you were trying sexual harrassing the MM who even did not want to have sex with you. For me, it seemed that you ALWAYS go after him, you persuaded him, manupilated him, asked him to look at your eyes, that is so not romantic at all. Basically you brain washed him, projecting your thoughts to him. Because basically he did not, does not, will not love you at all. For what I read so far, that poor guy, the MM is merely the sexual victim of yours. So just stop go after MM and his wife. End of story. Remember - here is the forum for OW/OM, not for people whose behavior close to sexual predator.
Goldfsh79 Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 My H was also (apparently) a kind and gentle man, but he had a years long affair too with a MOW. When I found out after 6 years(!) I felt like I was going to die. He was in the position of needing to make some choices. Because of what he'd done none of his choices were going to be easy. Obviously the OW was willing to continue with him while he was married, but I was not willing to stay married to him if he was going to keep seeing her. I was willing to try to reconcile though, but not if I was going to have to share him. It was his choice what to do next, and he decided he too was going to try to reconcile. As far as I was concerned he had to be "all in" with me, or he could leave. He worked out for himself that he was going to have to end it with the OW. I insisted on transparency with me, but not the wording of the e-mail he sent her ending it. For some reason he wasn't willing to tell her he actually loved her. I expect he realized that wouldn't go down well with me. He really wanted to let her down lightly, as her own husband had just died, but I expect she found his NC e-mail to be cold. He did apologize to her for hurting her but made it plain to her that he was more sorry for hurting me. I'm pretty sure he loved her but when it came to the crunch she wasn't the most important one. It's actually quite common that the MM goes NC with the OW, after a d-day. You're not unique and I imagine my H's OW was hurting much more than many others in a similar situation because of her own H's death. I'm sorry you're hurting but you will eventually be able to "let go". It take time. This is what happened to me in a sense. We went nc after his wife saw an email, but then calls me 6 months later to say goodbye and good luck. Weird to me but oh well. Funny thing is I initiated nc three times before (him once before) and it never stuck. I think when his wife found out, it was the push he needed to go nc. I'm glad its over. It was great with him, but he is where he chooses to be and so am I.
spice4life Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Mourning, I think you are projecting your own denial upon your xMM. He has made a choice and his wife is the one he wants be with. You need to accept that and understand that relationships are not tied up in a neat little bow to help you move on. His actions are telling you that he is no longer interested and he wants you to leave him alone. Period. Furthermore, if he has chosen reconciliation, of course his wife doesn't want him near you in the work place. Put the shoe on the other foot and pretend that you are her; would you want your husband around a woman who helped him betray your relationship? I have a friend who crossed the line over four years ago with a MM and one day she woke up and realized what she was doing and ended it. Four years later the guy is still trying to contact her in hope she will want to resume the affair. She wants nothing to do with him, tries to avoid him in the work place as much as she can and has made it clear she has no interest what so ever. It ticks her off to no end that he uses phony excuses to contact her. You need to accept that its over and move on without getting the closure you are looking for. He made his choice clear. You are the one who is in denial about his wife. Again, of course she does not want him to be friends with you because its obvious that you do not accept that he doesn't love you and has chosen her. You were a momentary slip...a fantasy and that's it. Leave him be and seek counseling. On a side note, your story sounds kind of familiar. You sound like the OW in a BS's story that used to post here. Her husband's xOW claimed that she (the BS) was forcing NC and the xOW refused to believe it was his choice to go NC. The reality was that he chose his wife and she wouldn't accept it and leave them alone to mend their marriage. Affairs are not normal relationships and you need to quit viewing it as such. Good luck on your journey. I hope you snap out of denial and start to see things and accept them for what they really are. 3
MissBee Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Mourning, I think you are projecting your own denial upon your xMM. He has made a choice and his wife is the one he wants be with. You need to accept that and understand that relationships are not tied up in a neat little bow to help you move on. His actions are telling you that he is no longer interested and he wants you to leave him alone. Period. Furthermore, if he has chosen reconciliation, of course his wife doesn't want him near you in the work place. Put the shoe on the other foot and pretend that you are her; would you want your husband around a woman who helped him betray your relationship? I have a friend who crossed the line over four years ago with a MM and one day she woke up and realized what she was doing and ended it. Four years later the guy is still trying to contact her in hope she will want to resume the affair. She wants nothing to do with him, tries to avoid him in the work place as much as she can and has made it clear she has no interest what so ever. It ticks her off to no end that he uses phony excuses to contact her. You need to accept that its over and move on without getting the closure you are looking for. He made his choice clear. You are the one who is in denial about his wife. Again, of course she does not want him to be friends with you because its obvious that you do not accept that he doesn't love you and has chosen her. You were a momentary slip...a fantasy and that's it. Leave him be and seek counseling. On a side note, your story sounds kind of familiar. You sound like the OW in a BS's story that used to post here. Her husband's xOW claimed that she (the BS) was forcing NC and the xOW refused to believe it was his choice to go NC. The reality was that he chose his wife and she wouldn't accept it and leave them alone to mend their marriage. Affairs are not normal relationships and you need to quit viewing it as such. Good luck on your journey. I hope you snap out of denial and start to see things and accept them for what they really are. Great post Spice, I completely agree! Maybe I just have too much pride...but if a man makes it clear he is no longer interested, I will walk away, tail between legs and cry about it in the privacy of my bedroom...but I WOULD NOT dare reach out to his family members, insist on contacting him or insist he loved me. I couldn't If he is "lying" or being forced, I'd rather believe that the truth will come to light later on, but for now, I'm gonna take him at his word, instead of fighting against it. It's a win win for you ML if you believe him and move on. If he's lying and just pretending not to love you, but eventually comes back...you'll have some of your dignity. If he doesn't come back and it is all true that he doesn't want you...you'll still have your dignity intact. However, if you push it, and he truly is done, you will end up looking extremely unhinged and you will give his wife more ammo, as well as you'll do a find job yourself of jeopardizing your professional relationship. Please think about which line of action makes more sense... 3
spice4life Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks MissBee. "Maybe I just have too much pride...but if a man makes it clear he is no longer interested, I will walk away, tail between legs and cry about it in the privacy of my bedroom...but I WOULD NOT dare reach out to his family members, insist on contacting him or insist he loved me. I couldn't*" Amen to this! Me either! I would suffer in silence for sure.
Ellin Posted August 14, 2012 Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) I've loved him since 2009, that's longer than I was in love with my husband at the beginning of our relationship. He was a much better partner to his wife and dad to his kids than my husband. All my husband cares about is sex and sports. He says it's emasculating to drop a child off at childcare or change a diaper. 3 years then - not long enough to be called love of your life.. Seriously, though.. How long did you date your husband before getting wed, considering that you are married to someone you loved only for a short time? Just wondering, you don't have to answer. What really got me thinking is you saying "He was a much better partner to his wife and dad to his kids than my husband".. This is the whole problem ML... He is a good partner to his wife and their kids... He has nothing of the kind to offer you.. Maybe your husband does not have such great qualities as MM but you husband has married YOU, made committment to YOU, has children with YOU and supports YOU. From what you've written I understand your H has been faithful to you. He is the one coming home to you and no one else, while you can't say the same about MM. So ultimately, whose faults are practically greater, H's or MM's? Edited August 14, 2012 by Ellin 2
Author MourningLosses Posted August 14, 2012 Author Posted August 14, 2012 My husband isn't a bad person but we don't love each other.
Author MourningLosses Posted August 14, 2012 Author Posted August 14, 2012 I've been separated from him before. I did not like being a single mom.
MissBee Posted August 14, 2012 Posted August 14, 2012 I've been separated from him before. I did not like being a single mom. So you'd rather stay and cheat or stay and be unhappy? Don't you think your child will row up realizing how awkward his/her parents' relationship is?
Author MourningLosses Posted August 14, 2012 Author Posted August 14, 2012 LadyGrey could you PM me? I can't see how it works or if I have it yet. I don't like to put too many personal things but I did feel entitled to be entitled to at least professional civility.
Mount Posted August 14, 2012 Posted August 14, 2012 But nowadays we have google..:bunny: LadyGrey could you PM me? I can't see how it works or if I have it yet. I don't like to put too many personal things but I did feel entitled to be entitled to at least professional civility.
whichwayisup Posted August 14, 2012 Posted August 14, 2012 LadyGrey could you PM me? I can't see how it works or if I have it yet. I don't like to put too many personal things but I did feel entitled to be entitled to at least professional civility. You need at least 100 posts and to be a member of LS for a month before having PM privvies. The problem is, when you have an affair at work, when the A ends the fallout is huge! Part of YOUR consquence is dealing with the fact that things get messy. Basically the two of you created this mess at work, so either quit your job or suck it up and ignore him/her and go on like nothing happened. He doesn't have to speak to you if he doesn't want to. Yeah it sucks, but again, consquences.. He isn't going to go out of his way to make you feel good and comfy. I see your entitlement too, not only that but the fact you believe you're above it all especially when it comes to his wife. You've put her down, puffed yourself up and I truly believe that your ego is hurting so badly because he chose her over you and this is something you can't understand, wrap your head around .. Because you think you're better than her. In every way. So your ego and pride has taken a huge hit as you cannot see why he wants his wife over you. I don't mean to hurt your feelings but the way you are processing everything and handling this isn't healthy and it's doing a lot of damage to you.
beach Posted August 14, 2012 Posted August 14, 2012 I'd say research narcissism. You show no empathy for the fact that you've caused great harm to him, her and YOUR H! Unfortunately - there's not much that can be done to change a narcissist. Especially when they view everyone else as the problem except THEMSELF.
Author MourningLosses Posted August 14, 2012 Author Posted August 14, 2012 Thank you for the information. I must be nearly there then. I am not a horrible person. He was the one who promised to always keep work separate. He was my adviser, he has a responsibility to my career. What do you mean about google?
Mount Posted August 14, 2012 Posted August 14, 2012 Hi WWI:p:p:p, I love your 99.99999% posts but I have to disagree following bolded one sentence. Based on my today's experience (today's post) so far, I feel pretty good and relieved about it. A at work can be ended by both willingness and postive attitude. You need at least 100 posts and to be a member of LS for a month before having PM privvies. The problem is, when you have an affair at work, when the A ends the fallout is huge! Part of YOUR consquence is dealing with the fact that things get messy. Basically the two of you created this mess at work, so either quit your job or suck it up and ignore him/her and go on like nothing happened. He doesn't have to speak to you if he doesn't want to. Yeah it sucks, but again, consquences.. He isn't going to go out of his way to make you feel good and comfy. I see your entitlement too, not only that but the fact you believe you're above it all especially when it comes to his wife. You've put her down, puffed yourself up and I truly believe that your ego is hurting so badly because he chose her over you and this is something you can't understand, wrap your head around .. Because you think you're better than her. In every way. So your ego and pride has taken a huge hit as you cannot see why he wants his wife over you. I don't mean to hurt your feelings but the way you are processing everything and handling this isn't healthy and it's doing a lot of damage to you.
beach Posted August 14, 2012 Posted August 14, 2012 Thank you for the information. I must be nearly there then. I am not a horrible person. He was the one who promised to always keep work separate. He was my adviser, he has a responsibility to my career. What do you mean about google? All the more reason to leave this job! You are responsible for YOU! It's not his responsibility at this point! Who booked the hotel and who paid?
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