The dating scene in the years to come

[Radu]

Better register the brand U.S. Robots and Mechanical Men right now.

[Taramere]

Your life might be filled with company or it might be very solitary, but you would hope that either way it would be an authentic life that involves learning, facing and overcoming challenges (or finding out new things about yourself, other people and the world from your failure to overcome them).

 

Surely it would be better to be alone completely and be honest about what that means, than to hide from the truth with the assistance of some mechanical doll. Unless the person who feels that way is little more than a mechanical doll themselves, I suppose.

[Els]

But you could set the difficulty of the android to easy, and there'd be a reset button to restore it to factory default settings if you mess up. With real people, the best you could hope for is a relationship where she's committed to you indefinitely, and then she dies. Who'd want that when you could buy a nuclear powered fembot with a 100 year manufacturer's warranty - guaranteed to outlive you.

 

Sure there's no reason - unless you want an actual person to share love, joy, hopes, sadness, and ultimately your life with, instead of just a body that looks and feels realistic to screw. Don't fool yourself, nobody has come close to bridging the ultimate chasm in creating genuine artificial intelligence - programs only do what they are programmed to do. They are deterministic machines, a set of pre-defined rules that process input to produce output. They can do a lot, but ultimately they must be instructed to do those things. There is no free will or emotion involved - and without those, there cannot be love.

 

If your perception of human love is so bleak that a robot is more desirable, you should certainly be saving up for them. You would be much happier, and so would the girls who would have dodged a bullet. Win-win.

[Titanwolf]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the spiritual aspect of this yet. Only a fool would believe you can manufacture a soul. No matter how advance man's technology becomes, it will still be man's and man is faulty.

[Titania22]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't dating only start existing around the 1950's. Even if it started earlier, it is still really new, compared to how long human societies have existed. So does it matter if it dies out?

 

This thread has seemed to tie relationships directly to dating, and yet relationship have existed for thousands of years.

[Radu]

Dating has existed for almost as long as our species has existed.

 

It just had different forms than what we consider today.

[MaxNoob]

Sure there's no reason - unless you want an actual person to share love, joy, hopes, sadness, and ultimately your life with, instead of just a body that looks and feels realistic to screw. Don't fool yourself, nobody has come close to bridging the ultimate chasm in creating genuine artificial intelligence - programs only do what they are programmed to do. They are deterministic machines, a set of pre-defined rules that process input to produce output. They can do a lot, but ultimately they must be instructed to do those things. There is no free will or emotion involved - and without those, there cannot be love.

 

If your perception of human love is so bleak that a robot is more desirable, you should certainly be saving up for them. You would be much happier, and so would the girls who would have dodged a bullet. Win-win.

 

Sure, but I was thinking of the distant future and Stephen Hawking's premise that a few basic laws of a computer program can produce complex structures and maybe even intelligence. Imagine you went to an alien world far more advanced than ours; how would you tell what is alive? If it's made of carbon it's alive, and if it's made of iron it can't be? Why not?

 

Here's what I'm talking about:

Quantic Dream's Kara - YouTube

[Els]

I'm not saying genuine AI, even that with free will, is impossible - anything could happen in the distant future. I was referring to your comment of 'why would anyone go for a human relationship when they can have an android with a 100-year lifespan and a manual reset button?'. My answer is, "If you think there is no benefit, you absolutely should be staying the hell away from human relationships."

[Radu]

No he doesn't ... he just needs to keep a bunch of girls on rotation and never commit.

 

A girl can do this too.

[Taramere]

Dating has existed for almost as long as our species has existed.

 

It just had different forms than what we consider today.

 

 

Back in the days of primitive human beings...I would picture something more like a hopeful face appearing from behind a large rock and some sort of urgent "come here" non verbal communication ensuing (I don't really buy the "men dragging women off by the hair" theory, because it's so unlike the way other social animals behave).

 

American dating seems to have always been a very formalised process, that's almost like an interview. I can understand why it gets people's backs up and isn't necessarily regarded as a fun thing to be involved in. With online dating, that "interviewing process" is more widespread. People armed with lists of what they expect in a prospective partner...and lots of people feeling angry and embittered because they don't meet other online daters' requirements.

 

I've never done online dating, and it's not something that appeals at all. I think it probably underlies a lot of the bitterness and acrimony between men and women. It's all topsy turvy. "Let's arrange a date based on whether we meet all or most of eachother's listed criteria and then we'll decide whether we like eachother"....whereas traditionally, you would build up a rapport (eye contact, smiles, introduction via mutual acquaintances etc)with somebody you knew absolutely nothing about before the two of you arranged a date. During the date (and subsequent dates) was when the information started to come out. Not in some internet profile long before.

 

Or it would all happen at some sort of dance club (ie real dancing, not dry humping in public). I mean obviously most people don't dance like this...

 

 

...but the dynamic it portrays between men and women can be recreated by lots of people (which is what that film is about, obviously), and it's a far healthier dynamic than the dynamics we read about/see getting played out on an impersonal medium like the internet.

 

With online dating and "lists", a lot of people who probably genuinely do have lots to offer will be getting ruled out. Take the height thing. Although most of the men I've dated in my life have been around the 6 ft mark, I've dated men of around 5 ft 7". In fact, the main love of my life was about that height.

 

Height usually isn't much of an issue unless a guy is either shorter than you...or so much taller that you feel ridiculously short next to him. However, I can see how when it comes to online dating people would start introducing these qualifications that they would never apply so rigidly in real life if they got talking to somebody who only met about 10% of their requirements..and felt a strong connection with them.

 

However, more and more it seems as though online dating is the way people will do it. I can see the attraction. I don't like it when I've built up a bit of a flirtatious vibe with a man over a few weeks only to discover that he's partnered up. In online dating people are advertising their availability (assuming they're being truthful) very bluntly. On the other hand, with the increased use the online approach to dating, a lot of people who are great people but don't make other people's lists will end up partnerless.

 

It's pretty harsh, but we do live in an overpopulated world I suppose.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Taramere

[MaxNoob]

No he doesn't ... he just needs to keep a bunch of girls on rotation and never commit.

 

A girl can do this too.

 

Yeah, either girls on rotation, or a fembot. Much better than feeling heartbroken. I can so relate to Louis CK when he says he can't get excited about dating anymore, because he knows what a relationship entails.

[Emilia]

After 27 years of unalloyed negative experiences, I can't be wholly wrong...

 

Except it's all in your mind

[Titanwolf]

On the other hand, with the increased use the online approach to dating, a lot of people who are great people but don't make other people's lists will end up partnerless.

 

It's pretty harsh, but we do live in an overpopulated world I suppose.

Nail on the head.

[Els]

American dating seems to have always been a very formalised process, that's almost like an interview. I can understand why it gets people's backs up and isn't necessarily regarded as a fun thing to be involved in. With online dating, that "interviewing process" is more widespread. People armed with lists of what they expect in a prospective partner...and lots of people feeling angry and embittered because they don't meet other online daters' requirements.

 

I completely agree. I could never identify with the modern, Western dating culture, to be honest. Going out on dates before you even think you like each other is a concept foreign to me. I see a bit of it where I live now, and it doesn't seem like the people are enjoying it either. So much wishy-washiness, uncertainty, game-playing. Why? Because everyone believes they deserve a specimen that fits completely into their mold of what they want, so numbers are their friend? Theoretically that might make sense, but it seems to be counterproductive to the goal, last I saw (and read). Some people aren't even giving natural, organically-developed relationships a chance to blossom, but rather treating other people like lists to tick off.

 

Back when I was in college in a small Asian city, the slightly less modern concept of 'courting' was prevalent. Men and women would get to know each other first - in class, in the workplace, in the halls of residence, become attracted to the other person, and THEN try to make their intentions known. Women typically did it by hinting; men did the pursuing and the courting. Some of you guys may scoff at this, but you know what? The guys were actually happy to do so; it made them feel manly when their nice gestures made a girl happy. And most of the guys I know faced far less rejection than I hear about here.

 

I understand that if you're in Rome, you gotta do as the Romans do; I'm sure some Americans have found wonderful and happy relationships from 'dating', and that's great. That doesn't change the fact that the concept seems all backwards to me. You don't ask someone out on a date based on arbitrary attributes, then teeter around on uncomfortable and uncertain roles for a while while you try to decide whether the person you're dating really is or isn't into you. Far better, IMO, to get to know a person naturally, let attraction develop, confess that you're at the very least attracted to each other, and then go out on dates, give it your best shot to build up the relationship and see if it'll work out well in the long term.

[Radu]

It's funny you should mention that because i was thinking at something similar.

 

I think dating at the beginning of our species or throughout our evolution closely resembled that of apes as well.

More about body language, maybe the female sending the signals and the males fighting over her ... it was still dating in a way.

Even today you have women who get excited out of 2 guys fighting over her.

 

All this technology has done is raise barriers that are impossible to go through, it made dating into a man-shopping experience with the same emotional involvement as buying shoes.

'Oh, would this blonde guy look cute on my arm, or should i go for slightly taller but just plain brown hair ?'

 

Yeah, that's how some think.

In online dating, women have become ideal princesses and men are either frogs [if they are stupid to not fake their profile] or diamonds [if they fake it] ... on popular sites and obviously generalizing.

I literally know guys who only do online dating and keep women on rotation.

There are PUA guys who have dedicated yrs of research on what works and what doesn't work in the dating game with the express purpose of getting laid by the 3rd date or even 1st, and leaving if she asks for a commitement later on.

 

On the height problem, i have the reverse of some of the guys here.

I'm 1.83m tall [about 5''10-11'] and want a girl of close to that same height ... without heels.

For a serious relationship too.

With online dating, no chance in hell to find one willing to give it a shot based on what is essentially words ... 5% of human communication.

If i approach on the street though, my chances increase substantially.

But then i have other obstacles ... she is always with earphones on.

I'm starting to think that some of these girls have earphones on, not hooked to anything to just look unaproachable.

[Radu]

I completely agree. I could never identify with the modern, Western dating culture, to be honest. Going out on dates before you even think you like each other is a concept foreign to me. I see a bit of it where I live now, and it doesn't seem like the people are enjoying it either. So much wishy-washiness, uncertainty, game-playing. Why? Because everyone believes they deserve a specimen that fits completely into their mold of what they want, so numbers are their friend? Theoretically that might make sense, but it seems to be counterproductive to the goal, last I saw (and read). Some people aren't even giving natural, organically-developed relationships a chance to blossom, but rather treating other people like lists to tick off.

 

Back when I was in college in a small Asian city, the slightly less modern concept of 'courting' was prevalent. Men and women would get to know each other first - in class, in the workplace, in the halls of residence, become attracted to the other person, and THEN try to make their intentions known. Women typically did it by hinting; men did the pursuing and the courting. Some of you guys may scoff at this, but you know what? The guys were actually happy to do so; it made them feel manly when their nice gestures made a girl happy. And most of the guys I know faced far less rejection than I hear about here.

 

I understand that if you're in Rome, you gotta do as the Romans do; I'm sure some Americans have found wonderful and happy relationships from 'dating', and that's great. That doesn't change the fact that the concept seems all backwards to me. You don't ask someone out on a date based on arbitrary attributes, then teeter around on uncomfortable and uncertain roles for a while while you try to decide whether the person you're dating really is or isn't into you. Far better, IMO, to get to know a person naturally, let attraction develop, confess that you're at the very least attracted to each other, and then go out on dates, give it your best shot to build up the relationship and see if it'll work out well in the long term.

 

At some point these lists become a self-fulfilling prophecy, a way to rationalise leaving the relationship.

 

Some of the girls here who come from rural areas have a similar way of thinking to what you described Elswyth ... that is untill the big city corrupts them and they get addicted to live sex shows in the club, or on webcam ... they know nobody will report it back home where they care about their reputation.

The guys from rural areas on the other hand have a field-day in college here, in knew a guy in college who was twice an OM.

[grkBoy]

I've looked into my crystal ball, and the future doesn't look good for the dating scene.

 

Most men (except for the PUAs) who have their act together by that time will be too paranoid to get involved with a woman... these will be the men who survived this lousy economy and learned their lesson.

 

Most women OTOH will not want most of the men because of unrealistic expectations... but the irony is the most desirable men will be the ones who have CLOSED signs on their hearts.

 

Ah well... either way, right now it would be a smart move to buy stock in companies that make dildos and Fleshlights...

 

In all honesty, I look at the modern media and can see why dating will remain a mess.

 

Look at how many shows depict families now. Most of them show dysfunctional families or broken ones. You then look at the shows with single childless folk and it's a wonderful romp of partying and sex.

 

You look at "chick flicks" (I have a female in my life, so I end up sitting through some of them) and you'll see loads of indecisive people who aren't sure if they want love or fantasy. Plus I notice how in every one of these movies there is always some dysfunctional married couple who always fights or some horrible semi-ugly wife who continuously bullies her husband and kids.

 

Yet we also have plenty of reality shows with young single folk living it up.

 

 

In the future, the real fight will become more of people choosing to date versus remaining single. I remember one successful career-minded female I met once. Her life was working hard and looking to unseat the men at the top and become the Queen. Whenever she felt the need for a man, she would dress herself all sexy, go out on the town, find a hot-looking single guy, have sex with him over the weekend, then kick him to the curb by Monday.

 

Men do this too. I see more women now complain on how many men seem very unwilling to date or especially commit. They speak of how the men won't trust women and believe dating/relationships/marriage is a trap.

 

Likewise, I am seeing this with women as well. They tried the fantasy man, didn't happen. They tried an average guy, didn't happen. So now they continually try to figure out in their minds if they're better off single and alone versus with a man.

 

That's the future. Forget bad boys, spoiled princesses, nice guys, fat girls, ugly people, pretty people, etc. It will more be the conflict of the few who still believe in love, marriage, relationships, etc...versus those who are bred to believe they're better off alone in life.

[EasyHeart]

American dating seems to have always been a very formalised process, that's almost like an interview. I can understand why it gets people's backs up and isn't necessarily regarded as a fun thing to be involved in. With online dating, that "interviewing process" is more widespread. People armed with lists of what they expect in a prospective partner...and lots of people feeling angry and embittered because they don't meet other online daters' requirements.

I don't think American dating has ever been "formali(z)ed"; I think that interview phenomenon developed fairly recently because of the larger number of older unmarried woman who decide it's time to find a husband. That probably started sometime in the '80s with aging Boomer women and has carried on to the present. And OLD has certainly facilitated that.

 

I think the main factor creating the current dating atmosphere is OLD (which I don't use) and the "shopping mentality" that it creates. I think the other big factors are: (1) The surplus of women in colleges for the past 20 years and (2) the atmosphere of fear that sexual harassment laws have created in the workplace. (I'd also throw in a rant about zoning laws in the US, but I'll try to keep it non-political. )

[El Brujo]

Say what you will about the "formalization" and history of dating; for me, I could never understand why it has to be so f'ing counterintuitive. Granted, I was probably napping when God installed the dating chip in everyone else's heads, but honestly I could never understand why, if someone wants a committed partner (notice I didn't say a f. buddy---I leave that to you breeders), they don't just come clean about it and do it businesslike.

 

I can only speak for myself, but it wouldn't bother me one bit to passed over like a car on a dealer's lot because I didn't have the options some woman wanted. I have no problem accepting that someone can have a laundry list... OTOH it bugs me to no end when they get all counterintuitive by acting stoopid and making a game out of it.

 

Me Tarzan, you Jane... me want love, you want fun. Me not for you. If I live to a hundred and eighty, I'll never understand why the process needs to be so damn illogical.

[Taramere]

I don't think American dating has ever been "formali(z)ed"; I think that interview phenomenon developed fairly recently because of the larger number of older unmarried woman who decide it's time to find a husband. That probably started sometime in the '80s with aging Boomer women and has carried on to the present. And OLD has certainly facilitated that.

 

By formaliszed I mean more that you're dating system has always struck me as more....well, yes, formal!

 

For instance, the prom thing. I think some schools here do that now, but they never used to. There wasn't that thing of "prom night is coming up, it's a night you'll remember for the rest of your life....you'll get all dressed up in fancy clothes and you have to have a date for it."

 

I'm not saying that's a bad thing....just that it means the pressure is on from quite an early age for people to find a partner they can go on a formal date with.

 

I think the main factor creating the current dating atmosphere is OLD (which I don't use) and the "shopping mentality" that it creates. I think the other big factors are: (1) The surplus of women in colleges for the past 20 years and (2) the atmosphere of fear that sexual harassment laws have created in the workplace. (I'd also throw in a rant about zoning laws in the US, but I'll try to keep it non-political. )

 

There does seem to be a big thing about sexual harassment in US universities. I don't know how much that has to do with fraternity/sorority parties. I've had that conversation with American men before, and they've generally said something along the lines of "I was never into the fratboy scene...it's not as big a thing as you think."

 

Probably not, but where I live it's never been a thing at all. There are student parties of course, but you don't get fraternity or sorority houses, hazing ceremonies or anything like that. I always felt very safe with my fellow students. That the guys who were part of the group I hung out with were my friends. I think if the social scene had been governed by some fraternity/sorority set-up that involved hazing etc, I'd have felt a great deal less safe.

[mesmerized]

I think it's only going to get worse. Relationships will be a rarity soon.

[joystickd]

I don't believe it will be as bleak as some of you make it out to be. I live in a rural area and to the people that live in big cities and complain try a rural area. Its hard as hell to be successful out here. The only reason I do ok is because even though I lived here all of my life I was a virtual unknown to most people. I was a lone wolf and in some ways I prefer it that way. I am proof that one could be successful without a "social circle". Its a lot harder but hell dating is hard. It will improve once everyone learns to actually sit down and figure out what they want and actually start to be equal and get rid of the BS. Women its ironic on some level that you don't believe in gender roles but in dating when asked to approach you mention that is what you don't do. I think it will be better because eventually both genders will have to take a proactive role in their dating success.

[ThaWholigan]

Life really is about perception

 

I see the world being better in general soon, even though there will be trouble ahead (but while there's moonlight and music......).......

 

Dating doesn't look as bleak to me as everyone sees it, but I obviously see life from a different perspective to most.

[Imajerk17]

I kind of scoffed at this thread at first, but we actually are heading into different challenges.

 

The big one is the paradox of choice. We have a lot more choices because (A) there are a lot more people around, and (B) due to the Internet we can make contact with a lot more people. You'd think more options would lead to better choices, but psychological studies have proven that this is indeed not the case.

[joystickd]

I think it's only going to get worse. Relationships will be a rarity soon.

I think the opposite will happen because both genders will eventually understand and accept the differences. Also the marriage pressure will reduce so you will see more long term relationship where the people are not married and then it will evolve to where marriage is cool again.