lemontwist Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 For those of you who decided to have children (versus “surprise!”), did one partner have a bigger say/desire? Either in the actual decision to have a child, or in the timing? Reason I ask… Husband and I have been married 2 years. Prior to, we agreed that neither of us wanted children anytime soon, possibly at all- we wanted to meet career and financial goals, travel, and just have several rescue dogs. But we also agreed that we’d be open to the idea of a child or two in future, if either of us should really want them. And if that decision comes late in the game, we would love to adopt or foster. Recently there has been a baby surge amongst by close girlfriends. So of course, most of our discussions involve the gentle prodding of when I might have one. The topic came up again at a recent ladies lunch, so I humored them with our lack-of-plan-but-open-agreement. “So then, it’s up to you” one said. I expressed that while I was warming up to the idea of a child, I wanted to give it more time… to see if the feeling was fleeting, and also to see if husband would naturally lean the same way without my influence. I don’t want it to “be up to me” with husband’s mere compliance (though I believe he would be a supportive father in any circumstance). But ideally, he would really WANT this, for the sake of any future child and our marriage. The rest of the conversation surprised me. All of the 4 moms present admitted that they were the initiator/decision maker when it came to children, and that their husbands were hesitant, or at least wanted to delay it a bit. Their reason for proceeding? The husbands accepted it as an expectation. While men may instinctively want to spread their seed, they don’t inherently sign up for modern child rearing with the same gusto as women. Sure, he will usually bond once baby arrives, but is less enthused beforehand- knowing the inevitable changes and challenges that come. Basically, my friends said I need to decide what I want, because his “agreement” was the best I was going to get. And if I wait for the ideal situation (for him to catch “baby rabies”) that I might as well chuck the whole idea now, because men aren’t programmed that way. So, ladies and gents… Do you agree? Is there a degree of feet-dragging that is expected simply due to biological differences? How equal should the enthusiasm be in such a big decision? How do the ideals differ from the realities?
DuchessKaye Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Men’s interest in being a father is nowhere near a high priority as women’s is to be a mother. And according to this one writer, sorry I forgot the name, "Motherhood is seen as a sign of achievement and femininity, while a man’s accomplishments are viewed through his income and career." So yeah, that’s how they differ...
RiverRunning Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 lolwut I'm in a completely different set-up. When he and I first met (granted, we were...20 and 25?), I was the one who was leaning much more heavily towards having children. He was ambivalent/leaning toward not having them. Fast-forward five years, and I'm in my mid-20s and he's closing in on his early 30s, and suddenly things have flip-flopped. I'm much more hesitant and feel I'd probably be a bit happier not having kids. He eagerly wants them. I guess maybe he'll get my meager compliance? I think it depends on the man, honestly. In the majority of cases? I'd expect that you're probably going to be in the scenario your friends describe. Whether it's the case or not, most men do feel like the provider and whether or not you're making an income, they see a baby as more responsibility and another mouth to feed. And in this day and age - while they can divorce you, the kid is an 18-year minimum commitment. I realize that's glum...but it's also the truth. Are you guys around kids at all? I'd say your best bet is to expose him to children. That's what happened to FI - he got close to my cousin (who was 2 when we first met/started dating, and now he's 6) and completely fell in love. He likes teaching my cousin things and taking him out. But for a lot of men, it is a situation of "now that the kid is here, I've bonded and I'm sure I want to be a father," whereas often, even if they want kids, it's heavily tinged with reluctance. 1
ColumbiaD Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Everyone is different. If you decide you want to have children sooner rather than later, that's between you and your spouse. From your post it sounds like you two got married with your expectations for children already on the table, and you are now possibly changing your mind. If he agrees, why does his level of enthusiasm matter? Age probably plays a factor as well.
Author lemontwist Posted August 5, 2012 Author Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the replies so far. Neither of us are around kids much. I'm an only child, very small extended family, etc. Husband has two female cousins, ages 9 and 12, but otherwise not a whole lot of kid exposure. Aside from a few couple-friends with kids... who we see less of now. I volunteer for a children's shelter 1-2xs a month (it was a community service project for a college class, and it roped me in). My experiences there, while extremely rewarding, have resulted in some mixed feelings about having kids of my own. It's funny how these situations tend to play out over time. Growing up, I always just assumed I would someday have children of my own. I have always had quite a strong need to nurture/rescue- (currently housing two foster dogs, a three legged cat, a burn-victim rabbit, and a one-eared chinchilla! in addition to my dogs and various houseplants) . So I guess I'm pegged as one with a maternal instinct. It wasn't until college that I really started questioning why people do have kids, because the divorce rate and prevalence of child abuse/neglect just didn't seem to line up with "bundles of joy". I am leaning more toward "no kids" for a variety of reasons, but there is a curiosity there and increasing societal/peer pressure. Neither of which would be a good reason to have children, of course, but it's there to deal with nonetheless. I always bring myself back to reality with one easy test... whenever I see people in the neighborhood walking with a stroller and/or a dog, I still always goo and gah over the dog first. So until that changes, I have no business stopping birth control pills. I'll just embrace my crazy dog lady self. Edited August 6, 2012 by lemontwist
xxoo Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 We both wanted kids, in a general way...."sometime". "Sometime" came down to me. I don't think he would have ever come to me and said "I think we should have a baby soon" (although he will sometimes suddenly want to "make a baby" during sex--but that isn't exactly the same thing ). Each time I seriously approached him and said I wanted to get pregnant, he agreed. He's a wonderful father 1
M30USA Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Men’s interest in being a father is nowhere near a high priority as women’s is to be a mother. .. Say what??????????
M30USA Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Men’s interest in being a father is nowhere near a high priority as women’s is to be a mother. And according to this one writer, sorry I forgot the name, "Motherhood is seen as a sign of achievement and femininity, while a man’s accomplishments are viewed through his income and career." So yeah, that’s how they differ... I propose another view: Women's desire for children is instinct, and nothing more. Wheras men's desire once the child comes is to assure that the child grows up into a responsible adult and is protected. 1
pink_sugar Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 I was actually shocked to find how much my husband wanted to be a father. When he sees kids he adores them and interacts with them more than I would. Not that I don't want kids, I do when I'm ready, but I think he expressed it first and more so. It was shocking for me, because most of the men in my life didn't want kids. 1
giotto Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Personally, I went along, because my wife really wanted one. She was actually getting a bit insane about it. Needless to say, I became n.3 on her list very shortly after that... I'm sure she didn't do it on purpose. Priorities get shifted after a child and some women don't realise that husbands still exist and they still want to be treated as husbands, without having to do all the house chores to get a bit of sex. And not even that. I hated every minute of that situation, and it still gives me the shivers. 1
Alma Mobley Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 When my husband and I married, I was the more hesitant about having children (but open) while he had always known he wanted children. (We have one child now.) I've dated other men in the past who knew they wanted children, though many of them wanted to wait until mid-thirties or so. I think women are probably more in a hurry than men due to biological limitations, but I think many if not most men want a family at some point. If this is actually true then you probably could benefit from some psychotherapy. You are clearly and admittedly displacing your natural maternal instincts onto non-human animals. Give me a break. I was the same way since I, like the OP, was more used to animals than children. I didn't have much experience with young children, but plenty with animals. Sometimes "displacing" maternal instincts onto animals is just a rehearsal for the real thing. Now I goo and gah at the babies at the park. 1
Radagast Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 My ex-wife and I agreed we would never have children. She felt that childbearing and childrearing oppressed women and she wanted to lead a fulfilled, self-actualised life without the burden of kids. I simply had no desire for kids. Then she hit 40 and decided she wanted kids, after all. I was still not keen so she "surprised" me by taking herself off birth control without telling me and falling pregnant "by accident" which she later admitted wasn't, but she was sure I'd fall in love with the idea once she was pregnant. I didn't, but I did stick around and do my parental duty and only divorced her when the kids were older. With my wife, it's the other way round. She did not want children (in her first marriage) but fell pregnant while on birth control, in a country that did not allow abortion, and so became a reluctant parent. Her husband had wanted more kids (he had from his first marriage). Our children are all grown and out of the house. I find myself looking at my wife and thinking, wouldn't our baby be beautiful? and getting broody around babies and small children, but she's not remotely interested and I know it would be foolish to start all over again with nappies and sleepless nights at our ages! 1
Radu Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 Recently there has been a baby surge amongst by close girlfriends. So of course, most of our discussions involve the gentle prodding of when I might have one. The topic came up again at a recent ladies lunch, so I humored them with our lack-of-plan-but-open-agreement. “So then, it’s up to you” one said. I expressed that while I was warming up to the idea of a child, I wanted to give it more time… to see if the feeling was fleeting, and also to see if husband would naturally lean the same way without my influence. I don’t want it to “be up to me” with husband’s mere compliance (though I believe he would be a supportive father in any circumstance). But ideally, he would really WANT this, for the sake of any future child and our marriage. The rest of the conversation surprised me. All of the 4 moms present admitted that they were the initiator/decision maker when it came to children, and that their husbands were hesitant, or at least wanted to delay it a bit. Their reason for proceeding? The husbands accepted it as an expectation. While men may instinctively want to spread their seed, they don’t inherently sign up for modern child rearing with the same gusto as women. Sure, he will usually bond once baby arrives, but is less enthused beforehand- knowing the inevitable changes and challenges that come. Basically, my friends said I need to decide what I want, because his “agreement” was the best I was going to get. And if I wait for the ideal situation (for him to catch “baby rabies”) that I might as well chuck the whole idea now, because men aren’t programmed that way. So, ladies and gents… Do you agree? Is there a degree of feet-dragging that is expected simply due to biological differences? How equal should the enthusiasm be in such a big decision? How do the ideals differ from the realities? Guy here, 29, i want kids and decided on it when i was 27. The bolded part scares me. It's because it's borderline on 'messing with your BC' as a way to prod, and i'd bet anything that at least one of them did this. To me, this is removal of my ability to choose, which is quite similar to cheating. If i ever found that my wife/fiance/gf did this to me, our relationship would never be the same again. If it's ok for a woman to prod a man by sabotaging her BC, shouldn't it also be ok for a man to feed a woman substances that cause miscarriage ? 1
BetheButterfly Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 For those of you who decided to have children (versus “surprise!”), did one partner have a bigger say/desire? Either in the actual decision to have a child, or in the timing? Reason I ask… Husband and I have been married 2 years. Prior to, we agreed that neither of us wanted children anytime soon, possibly at all- we wanted to meet career and financial goals, travel, and just have several rescue dogs. But we also agreed that we’d be open to the idea of a child or two in future, if either of us should really want them. And if that decision comes late in the game, we would love to adopt or foster. Recently there has been a baby surge amongst by close girlfriends. So of course, most of our discussions involve the gentle prodding of when I might have one. The topic came up again at a recent ladies lunch, so I humored them with our lack-of-plan-but-open-agreement. “So then, it’s up to you” one said. I expressed that while I was warming up to the idea of a child, I wanted to give it more time… to see if the feeling was fleeting, and also to see if husband would naturally lean the same way without my influence. I don’t want it to “be up to me” with husband’s mere compliance (though I believe he would be a supportive father in any circumstance). But ideally, he would really WANT this, for the sake of any future child and our marriage. The rest of the conversation surprised me. All of the 4 moms present admitted that they were the initiator/decision maker when it came to children, and that their husbands were hesitant, or at least wanted to delay it a bit. Their reason for proceeding? The husbands accepted it as an expectation. While men may instinctively want to spread their seed, they don’t inherently sign up for modern child rearing with the same gusto as women. Sure, he will usually bond once baby arrives, but is less enthused beforehand- knowing the inevitable changes and challenges that come. Basically, my friends said I need to decide what I want, because his “agreement” was the best I was going to get. And if I wait for the ideal situation (for him to catch “baby rabies”) that I might as well chuck the whole idea now, because men aren’t programmed that way. So, ladies and gents… Do you agree? Is there a degree of feet-dragging that is expected simply due to biological differences? How equal should the enthusiasm be in such a big decision? How do the ideals differ from the realities? With my husband, he wants to wait until we are more financially secure before having children. He also wants to travel more with me and spend more time just him and me before we add precious little humans who are dependent on us to our family! I do think that the biological differences seem to make my hubby more hesitant, where I am not so much. To me, my biological clock is ticking lol. I also have strong maternal instincts, which motivates me to want to be a Mommy! 1
chrissylee Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 It amazes me how so many people want to over-intellectualize the decision to have children. Biologically, that's what the purpose of your existence is--to pass down your DNA to the next generation. It's not to rescue three legged cats or toasted bunnies. ummmm yeah no sorry the purpose of my existence is no to have children. I have so many other things I am going to do in my life, and having a child is not one of them.For me I can't really understand the desire for a kid. I have never and will never desire one, but I guess everyone's different. OP I do think men and women differ on the desire for children most of the time. From my friends who have had children, it was always the wife who wanted one more. The guy wasn't opposed to it, he just didn't have a huge desire for it. Although, I don't think you should feel pressure to have children just because all of your friends are having them. 1
Author lemontwist Posted August 7, 2012 Author Posted August 7, 2012 The bolded part scares me. It's because it's borderline on 'messing with your BC' as a way to prod, and i'd bet anything that at least one of them did this. To me, this is removal of my ability to choose, which is quite similar to cheating. If i ever found that my wife/fiance/gf did this to me, our relationship would never be the same again. If it's ok for a woman to prod a man by sabotaging her BC, shouldn't it also be ok for a man to feed a woman substances that cause miscarriage ? Agreed- it's scandalous and a bad idea all around. Sadly, I've known a couple women who have admitted to this (a former colleague was even borderline boastful that she tricked her husband into another baby.. ugh!!) ColumbiaD asked why my husband's level of enthusiasm matters... I would never consider having a child unless we were BOTH enthusiastic about it. Parenthood is tough under ideal circumstances. Why make it even harder from the get-go? If a partner has to be "talked into it" (be it marriage, a baby, or baby #8), it's probably going to lead to animosity at some point, which can can be disastrous. And perhaps my post is over-intellectualizing, DuckSoup. But I'd like to think we've evolved out of the jungle and past having children just to pass on our DNA. Sure, it's instinctual... but we also have frontal lobes now. What's wrong with using them to weigh the motivations for, and consequences of, a life-changing decision? Oh so hipster. I'll leave the animal comments/jabs alone, for now.
Radu Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 If you pit biological imperatives and rationalized decisions against the other, most of the times the former will win. Some men do get baby crazy as they go past 27, i did ... my cousin did. But i don't think that overall men will be as baby crazy as women are because we can't be. We think differently and we act differently, if we could get pregnant maybe we would be. I do believe that some gentle prodding is in order from the female many times, but that does not mean sabotaging BC.
Kelemvor Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 Guy here... I'll be bluntly honest... fully knowing that even though not ALL men fit into this description, MOST men probably do. Men get married for a variety of reasons. The primary ones are 1) Sex 2) Companionship 3)To be nurtured 4)Economical advantage 5)Fear of being alone 6)The desire for family Probably in that order or close to it. Children, child rearing, nurturing, all these traits come MUCH more easily to a woman, as they should. After all, your body has evolved with the power to procreate. Women are genetically designed to procreate and raise children, and to do it well. Men, I think are never as excited, at least initially about having children, but more than likely always end up realizing later on that it was worth pushing through the anxiety and fear. I have several friends who would not trade their children for anything and one or two that admit that even though child rearing has been difficult and non rewarding, the remainder of their marriage has been.. and they accepted having children as an expectation. Let's face it... Men go into marriage just happy that they are going to get regular sex, no man realistically expects frequent and constant sex to result in no offspring, so it really shouldn't come as a total surprise. Don't expect him to ever be as excited about having kids as you might be, but be damn sure YOU want them and not your friends. I find it disturbing that they seem to be pressuring you into having children. I freely admit that there seem to be some women who just simply have no desire to have them and would probably be less happy with children. My sister, who is happily married is one of them. She would make a terrible mother (God bless her, I love her to death), but she also admits that and is totally happy in her 10 year marriage to her husband with no children and 2 pets. They are just fine and totally happy without children, so don't do it if you don't want it. Men are just inherently more fearful due to the added responsibility, financial hit, and need for additional commitments to not only a marriage but now "raising a family" together... I definitely don't think it's for everyone but I really detest society and "friends" pushing and prodding others to make life changing decisions that truly might not be in their best interests. Anyway, my 2 cents. However, if you DO want them, it's a little unrealistic for him to be as excited as you might be, but that's just normal I would say.
DaisyLeigh1967 Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 My husband always wanted kids. He talked about it before I did.
Krytie TV Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 If you can't declare without a doubt that you want children, I would encourage you to not have them. I see it daily, there are enough children in this world with parents who are disengaged/uncaring/unable to care for a child. If you bring one in, it's a lifetime commitment. Please acknowledge that before you decide.
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