An Article On Who Has The Power In Dating

[verhrzn]

Do yourself a favor. Over the past few years, there have been a few threads here the topic of which were "how long was your longest dry spell?" Search for them. You want to know what the responses were?

 

There was a comical imbalance between the male and female posters. Even the men who are "successful" with women had ridiculously long dry spells. We're talking 8-12 months. Most of the women who responded, save for the ones who are (by their own admission) obese, never had a dry spell longer than 5-6 months. The ones who did deprived themselves of sex willingly. Most of the women on LS in their 20s have never gone more than 4-5 months between relationships.

 

Don't believe me? Don't take my word for it! Search for the threads and see for yourself. Then try the same on any other message board and see what guys have to say. Do a wide cross section, everything from bodybuilding forums to nerdy forums. Do the same in real life. If you have honest, straightforward male and female acquaintances, I'm willing to bet my left nut (it's my bigger one, mind you, so this is a big f**king deal, as Joe Biden would say) that you would notice a discrepancy as well.

 

A man who can honestly say that the shortest amount of time he went between sexual experiences is a mere two months is a rare creature indeed. A woman? Not so much.

 

Again, I don't infer a "power imbalance" or any such nonsense from these findings.

 

Except you are searching out a bias. You are going to forums that cater exclusively to men. Women might be complaining in OTHER places... like not on the Internet. Maybe they're complaining to their friends in the bathroom, or sitting alone on the couch watching romantic movies with a bucket of ice cream every night.

 

I am one of my few female friends who regularly posts on a forum... any forum. My girlfriends just don't socialize that way, whereas it's pretty common for my male friends. So if my female friends don't go to forums for casual social interaction, why would they go online to complain about how long it's been since they got laid??

 

And again... you're focusing exclusively on sex. Women MIGHT have an edge in getting sex, if they have no standards whatsoever and take whatever comes their way, as discussed in the article. But I bet if you polled random single people on the street, many women would have just as long a dry spell in terms of a relationship, as men have in terms of sex.

[ThaWholigan]

It doesn't have to be hypergamy though. I mean what about a girl who is totally head over heels for some guy (to the point where she won't consider dating anyone else) and that same guy is dating/in a relationship with/married to somebody else? I think that is something that happens way more often with women than it does with men.

It happens with varying levels between each gender. It's blown out of proportion because these days a lot of men just want to talk about how "hard it is". It's viewing things through a very narrow lens in my opinion.

 

Women might have more "options", but their options may be as unappealing to them as the very few options that we as men may have. No matter how you dress it up, if you were the women in question, you'd likely not take them too.

 

As far as I see it, no gender has more power in dating. You have as much power as you afford yourself, and the power you give to someone else is measured by you.

 

That's the way I see it. I have had troubles in dating, and only a few other guys I know have - and none of us are complaining. I know more girls with dating troubles than I do guys strangely enough. It's something I see more of online more than anything.

[fortyninethousand322]

100 men, 100 women.

 

The top 20 men are perfectly happy to have sex with the top 50 women, by the time you get to the 50th man you'll have all women serviced.

 

Kind of. Let's say we're talking about young people (under 35 years old). In the US the ratio is 104 males to 100 females. About 5% (give or take) of each is gay or lesbian, which knocks the ratios of strait males to females 99 to 95. Now, let's say the top 10% (by any measure) of men dates/has sex with/etc. dates 2 women each on average. Now we're down to 89 men and 75 women. If the next 5% dates 1.5 women on average, it's now 85 men to about 68 women.

 

So it's easy to see how things can get skewed with just a small number of people behaving a certain way.

[verhrzn]

100 men, 100 women.

 

The top 20 men are perfectly happy to have sex with the top 50 women, by the time you get to the 50th man you'll have all women serviced.

 

I have never seen any evidence to support this. None. Nada, this whole bizarre idea that only 20% of the men are getting all the women.

 

After all, even if a single men is servicing multiple women, why aren't the women then turning around and sleeping with multiple partners? Why are we assuming that the women are monogamous?

 

Furthermore, even if the women are getting sex, they aren't getting what they probably want (if we're speaking in gross generalizations); an exclusive relationship. So while the sex may be better than nothing, it isn't what they want.

 

It's like being in a relationship with a girl who will never be physical with you. It's emotionally fulfilling, but the guy isn't getting what he wants, which is sex. Would the guy be happy with this arrangement? Probably not. So why would the women getting sex be happy with the arrangement when they're not getting what they want?

 

Your premise is making a lot of assumptions about 1) why the women are monogamous 2) why they're sleeping with someone who isn't giving them what they want.

[TheBigQuestion]

Except you are searching out a bias. You are going to forums that cater exclusively to men. Women might be complaining in OTHER places... like not on the Internet. Maybe they're complaining to their friends in the bathroom, or sitting alone on the couch watching romantic movies with a bucket of ice cream every night.

 

I am one of my few female friends who regularly posts on a forum... any forum. My girlfriends just don't socialize that way, whereas it's pretty common for my male friends. So if my female friends don't go to forums for casual social interaction, why would they go online to complain about how long it's been since they got laid??

 

And again... you're focusing exclusively on sex. Women MIGHT have an edge in getting sex, if they have no standards whatsoever and take whatever comes their way, as discussed in the article. But I bet if you polled random single people on the street, many women would have just as long a dry spell in terms of a relationship, as men have in terms of sex.

 

In those LS threads I'm referencing, no one was "complaining" about their dry spells. They were essentially poll threads, and the results were bimodal.

 

I also encourage people to find this sort of information out in real life to account for the so-called "bias" you claim I'm "searching out for." I'm fortunate to have a very honest and straightforward group of mixed gender acquaintances, and the few times this conversation topic has ever popped up, the women were utterly flabbergasted at the idea that so many men, good looking and likeable men, in their eyes, could have gone so long without sex and/or a relationship. My own girlfriend was shocked to find out that my own dry spell topped out at a whopping 7 months.

 

And again, don't try to minimize sex. The idea of going a really long time without sex, regardless of whether it is in the context of a relationship, is extremely disconcerting for many women.

[fortyninethousand322]

It happens with varying levels between each gender. It's blown out of proportion because these days a lot of men just want to talk about how "hard it is". It's viewing things through a very narrow lens in my opinion.

 

Women might have more "options", but their options may be as unappealing to them as the very few options that we as men may have. No matter how you dress it up, if you were the women in question, you'd likely not take them too.

 

As far as I see it, no gender has more power in dating. You have as much power as you afford yourself, and the power you give to someone else is measured by you.

 

That's the way I see it. I have had troubles in dating, and only a few other guys I know have - and none of us are complaining. I know more girls with dating troubles than I do guys strangely enough. It's something I see more of online more than anything.

 

I'm not saying anyone has more "options" or has it easier either. Just explaining the numbers. A guy or gal who wants a relationship but could have any number of casual sex partners they want probably doesn't feel like they have options. Likewise somebody looking for a fling but can only find people wanting a relationship probably feels constrained too. It's two different arguments I guess.

[brahmabull117]

I have never seen any evidence to support this. None. Nada, this whole bizarre idea that only 20% of the men are getting all the women.

 

 

20% of men are getting 80% of the women, it's absolutely true

 

 

I've hung out in different social groups in my life. There's been times where I hung out with successful good looking business men types and they were single and sleeping with 4 or 5 women at a time

 

 

I've hung out with nerdy types who were lucky to get a GF and often went years without any sexual contact

[Pirouette]

In my opinion, the article is ok, and I agree with the overall message that everybody struggles. The part that I think is the most valuable is that it tells you to evaluate and rethink the beliefs that leave you powerless.

 

If you subscribe to the thought that the all the stars have aligned to keep you down and all your chances of success are out of your hands, then of course you are going to frozen in inaction and stuck in your same unfulfilling situation.

 

I was raised with limiting beliefs by my family and culture, and it has taken me a long time to work through them and understand how they have hampered me from trying and doing my best in many aspects of my life. And this is family so I couldn't choose them, and I wouldn't just cut them out of my life for that, so I still have to listen to that soft of stuff occasionally.

 

But you can choose your friends and the people you date. So if I met a guy and he started spouting this nonsense about women having all the power and he's just an average guy and no average woman will give him a chance, well this average woman would immediately next him.

 

If I had guy or girl friends who said this kind of stuff and my logical arguements against were ignored, then I would conclude that we are not compatible and those friendships would fade away too. Because if you subscribe to this kind of thinking, and it rarely just contains itself to gender relations, you have a defeatist mindset, and a it's-something-someone-else's fault lack of responsibilty for yourself and that is not the kind of energy that I would want to keep around myself.

 

Luckily, other than on the internet, most of the people I know do not sound like this.

[Bristolius]

Hypergamy doesn't exist.

 

Then how do you explain Real Dolls?

[verhrzn]

In those LS threads I'm referencing, no one was "complaining" about their dry spells. They were essentially poll threads, and the results were bimodal.

 

I also encourage people to find this sort of information out in real life to account for the so-called "bias" you claim I'm "searching out for." I'm fortunate to have a very honest and straightforward group of mixed gender acquaintances, and the few times this conversation topic has ever popped up, the women were utterly flabbergasted at the idea that so many men, good looking and likeable men, in their eyes, could have gone so long without sex and/or a relationship. My own girlfriend was shocked to find out that my own dry spell topped out at a whopping 7 months.

 

... But none of that means that women aren't experiencing their own dry spells. It just means you don't happen to be friends with any of them, and none of them are taking polls on a forum.

 

What is your evidence that the majority of women have more dating options than the majority of men at any given time? How exactly does that work, numbers wise?

[brahmabull117]

... But none of that means that women aren't experiencing their own dry spells. It just means you don't happen to be friends with any of them, and none of them are taking polls on a forum.

 

What is your evidence that the majority of women have more dating options than the majority of men at any given time? How exactly does that work, numbers wise?

 

 

It's really not possible and it's complete nonsense for the most part

 

 

 

Yea the top 20% of women have a ton of dating options but so do the top 20% of men

[verhrzn]

20% of men are getting 80% of the women, it's absolutely true

 

I've hung out in different social groups in my life. There's been times where I hung out with successful good looking business men types and they were single and sleeping with 4 or 5 women at a time

 

I've hung out with nerdy types who were lucky to get a GF and often went years without any sexual contact

 

And maybe if nerdy guys put themselves out there and hit on and slept with anything and everything, they'd be sleeping with 5 women at the same time as well.

 

I know quite a few nerdy "players," guys you would NEVER suspect of being players. And they were easily pulling down multiple women (of course, some of those women were also sleeping with multiple men, so there goes that theory.) The difference between them and the other nerdy guys? They hit on everything.

[brahmabull117]

And maybe if nerdy guys put themselves out there and hit on and slept with anything and everything, they'd be sleeping with 5 women at the same time as well.

.

 

 

These guys are usually sleeping with 4 or 5 different attractive and high quality (educated, good personality, etc...) women at a time

 

 

Anyways, the 20-80 rule is definitely true. I've seen it over and over again. I've met a ton of men in my life time who had a whole lot of options and I've met a much larger number of men who had few to no options

[ThaWholigan]

These guys are usually sleeping with 4 or 5 different attractive and high quality (educated, good personality, etc...) women at a time

 

 

Anyways, the 20-80 rule is definitely true. I've seen it over and over again. I've met a ton of men in my life time who had a whole lot of options and I've met a much larger number of men who had few to no options

I meet few men who have a lack of options. The 80-20 rule is something I have never seen.

[fortyninethousand322]

I meet few men who have a lack of options. The 80-20 rule is something I have never seen.

 

It's more like a 20-35 rule.

[TheBigQuestion]

... But none of that means that women aren't experiencing their own dry spells. It just means you don't happen to be friends with any of them, and none of them are taking polls on a forum.

 

What is your evidence that the majority of women have more dating options than the majority of men at any given time? How exactly does that work, numbers wise?

 

You're asking for empirical evidence of something that, to the best of my knowledge, has never been formally studied. That's not a reason to discount valid experiential knowledge. Women by and large will have more dating prospects and more sexual prospects. That much has been anecdotally established time and time again, here and elsewhere. It has everything to do with the fact that men are still the primary approachers. With that said, I don't believe this leaves men with a power imbalance of any kind.

 

What I do take issue with is your generalization that women may "settle" for sex but really want a relationship. Complete nonsense. There actually was a widespread study, the largest of its kind in fact, that confirmed that women have sex primarily for the same reason men do: because it feels good. Not because of emotional bonding as is stereotyped, but simple physical gratification. I'll find it later.

 

The converse is your equally asinine belief that what men really want is sex but that they will "take" a relationship.

[verhrzn]

These guys are usually sleeping with 4 or 5 different attractive and high quality (educated, good personality, etc...) women at a time

 

Anyways, the 20-80 rule is definitely true. I've seen it over and over again. I've met a ton of men in my life time who had a whole lot of options and I've met a much larger number of men who had few to no options

 

Aaaaaand why can't the same be true of women? That the top 20% have a lot of options and the lower 80% don't? Yeah, the top 20% of guys are screwing multiple women.... but maybe those same women are screwing multiples of the top 20%.

 

In other words, it isn't ALL women screwing the top 20%, just the top 20% of women getting with the top 20% of men.

[Lonely Ronin]

Then how do you explain Real Dolls?

 

Laziness & unrealistic standards.

[TheBigQuestion]

Aaaaaand why can't the same be true of women? That the top 20% have a lot of options and the lower 80% don't? Yeah, the top 20% of guys are screwing multiple women.... but maybe those same women are screwing multiples of the top 20%.

 

In other words, it isn't ALL women screwing the top 20%, just the top 20% of women getting with the top 20% of men.

 

Wrong. Men who sleep with multiple women at a time or who live one-night stand lifestyles aren't usually sleeping with all beautiful, talented, and intelligent women. Having sex with tons of women usually entails dropping your standards by quite a bit, even if you do also have sex with really good looking women at the same time.

[AD1980]

Aaaaaand why can't the same be true of women? That the top 20% have a lot of options and the lower 80% don't? Yeah, the top 20% of guys are screwing multiple women.... but maybe those same women are screwing multiples of the top 20%.

 

In other words, it isn't ALL women screwing the top 20%, just the top 20% of women getting with the top 20% of men.

 

Nah my boy whos really good looking always has average women he pumps and dumps because he knows average women are easier to get into bed and they try to bang their way to a relationship with a guy out of their league

[Lonely Ronin]

It's more like a 20-35 rule.

 

I'm going to go with people believe what makes them feel better. Simply put most people don't want to own up to the fact that they are limiting themselves, not someone else.

[brahmabull117]

You know what, maybe it's not 80-20, it might be say 30-70 but it's definitely true that there is a certain segment of the male population that is very very successful while everybody else is anywhere from average to terrible

 

 

Kinda true for everything in life IMO

[verhrzn]

Fine. You are all correct, women only sleep with the top 20% of men (even though the article directly addressed this), all women are entitled stupid evilheads who only want rich Adonises, and none of us ever have any problems in dating compared to you poor men.

 

There. Happy? You're right back to where you started.

[verhrzn]

You know what, maybe it's not 80-20, it might be say 30-70 but it's definitely true that there is a certain segment of the male population that is very very successful while everybody else is anywhere from average to terrible

 

Couldn't possibly be that maybe the 80% of men aren't interested in the left over women the 20% didn't want. If men are so desperate to end their dry spell, why not sleep with those women?

 

Oh, right, because men shouldn't have to lower their standards. Except women apparently lower theirs all the time which is why they can get sex so easily.

 

Does anyone not notice what a Funhouse Mirror of Logic this all is?

[Revolver]

I don't believe in the 80/20 rule. I believe 80% of the women want that 20% of guys but are all of that 80% being monopolized by that small percentage(20%) of men? Not even close