An Article On Who Has The Power In Dating

[joystickd]

It's similar to a lot of recent PUA material, yes.

 

But recent PUA material is not even PUA anymore

I think they finally got away from NLP

[Bristolius]

HOW does it make the same arguments? Please break down the article with evidence to prove your point.

 

I'll go with ThaWholigan on this. Everything I know about PUA comes from reading his posts here.

 

By the way Verhrzn, it's good to see you with a happier tone today.

[betterdeal]

I'd bet some heavy amount of money that if a genie popped up, and told every male in the world that they would have the ability to sleep with any woman they wanted (without fear of STDs, pregnancy, etc.), my guess is a heavy majority of men would take him up on it.

 

No risks? Where's the fun in that?

[Lonely Ronin]

My experience has been that guys care about numbers until they meet The Perfect Girl, and then they want a relationship. Essentially, all guys are (or want to be) players until they find the girl of their dreams. It's certainly been true of all of my exes and my male friends.

 

Let me ask you a question, how many of your ex's & friends work in It/computers/tech?

 

I'm a developer, and I can tell you that it is a very common mentality among guys in IT. I can also pretty much explain why they are the way they are to. IMO a lot of them never made it out of the junior high trying to prove who's the biggest/coolest man phase. If you step outside of your normal social circle, I think you will find that this mentality is the exception and not the rule.

[joystickd]

*Shrugs* Maybe because they don't believe it's possible for them to be players.

 

I'd bet some heavy amount of money that if a genie popped up, and told every male in the world that they would have the ability to sleep with any woman they wanted (without fear of STDs, pregnancy, etc.), my guess is a heavy majority of men would take him up on it.

 

Again, not saying these same guys don't want a relationship, or wouldn't eventually settle down. They'd just play around first and then get a relationship.

Not all there are a number of guys that genuinely want a relationship. Opportunity will arise but they won't capitalize on it. For example I have admitted that I have had sex with married women. There are guys on here that say I'm scum for doing that. It's all a matter of what that particular guy's values and beliefs are.

[fortyninethousand322]

*Shrugs* Maybe because they don't believe it's possible for them to be players.

 

I'd bet some heavy amount of money that if a genie popped up, and told every male in the world that they would have the ability to sleep with any woman they wanted (without fear of STDs, pregnancy, etc.), my guess is a heavy majority of men would take him up on it.

 

Again, not saying these same guys don't want a relationship, or wouldn't eventually settle down. They'd just play around first and then get a relationship.

 

I think it's the other way around. Lots of guys settle for casual flings because they can't get a/the girl to commit or maybe they're both horny at the moment but hate each other's guts otherwise (rare but I'm sure happens).

 

Men and women are not all that different. Most want someone to care about them and share their life with. Sex isn't everything. Even to guys.

[AD1980]

The whole men are entitled and just want to sleep with 10's thing is tired and hack at this point

[proseandpassion]

This is also an interesting article about why/how men start hating women via the dating game:

 

5 Ways Modern Men Are Trained to Hate Women | Cracked.com

 

Great quote: "...there are two ways to dehumanize someone: by dismissing them, and by idolizing them."

[somedude81]

To start with, there are plenty of women out there who aren’t rolling into a bar and rolling out with a bedmate. There are many women who struggle to find dates, whether it’s because they’re too tall, too big, too whatever.

I would have liked to see more on that topic but he never touches on it again. I wonder if there was a reason why...

 

Beyond that, the ability to get a sexual partner within a pre-set amount of time or with whatever suitable definition of “ease” might be isn’t exclusive to women. Men have equal ability to find sexual partners as women do… it just involves being willing to lower your standards to being willing to sleep with anyone who offers or shows an interest. Women who aren’t conventionally attractive, whose body types differ from the culturally accepted ideal or otherwise don’t meet one’s personal levels of sexiness are out there, hoping to get laid just as much as everybody else.

So in other words; ugly, and fat girls are easy?

 

Even if that were true, ugly women aren't that common. Though there are plenty of obese women.

 

The part that bugs me the most, is that the author insinuates that men should settle for below average woman and that way men have no right to complain that it might be difficult. Of course there is no mention of women having to settle. Unless going for an average guy is settling...

The same applies to women. A woman’s supposed ability to get laid easily or quickly doesn’t correspond with the desirability of the available sex partners. A woman could go into a bar and pick up a man for sex, yes, but it doesn’t mean that she’s going to necessarily find someone she’s attracted to.

Frankly, if a woman meets a man in a bar and leaves with him to have sex, I'd wager that she's doing it because she is attracted to him at that time.

 

Not being able to find anybody hot enough to bang does not equal not being able to bang anybody when you want.

Take a stroll through Wal-Mart on a Saturday afternoon. You’re going to see lots of dudes who aren’t exactly making the cover of People’s Sexiest Man shopping with their girlfriends and wives.

 

 

“But look at the women they’re with!” I hear some of you cry, at which point we’re right back to the same issue as before: “the impossibly hot woman I want to date/sleep with won’t date me.”

So because I don't want a 40 year old obese woman means that I only want the impossibly hot women.

 

Women don't come in just Hot and Not Hot.

 

Yes there are plenty of normal looking to below average dudes with women, but those women most often look worse then the guys do!

 

All I want is a woman who is in my league.

That being said, one common issue I talk about is the overdeveloped-and-undeserved sense of entitlement that a lot of men2 have. They tend to believe that they deserve a smoking hottie, a perfect 10 regardless of their own looks, wealth, lifestyle or personality. It’s not a real surprise to find out that a Nice Guy who doesn’t take care of his appearance and believes that he’s owed a girlfriend is having a hard time getting that 10 to give him her number.

I most certainly do not.

 

I'm with AD1980; just getting tired of the belief that men who struggle only want 10's and that's why they are having trouble. But then the pendulum swings to the far other side, and says that the men who are struggling should start going for 3's.

 

I'm a 6 when I wear my five inch heels, why should I settle for a 3?

 

The latter section is about how women don't take any risks, and I just don't care about it. I'm a man and I know it's my job to make all the moves. The only thing that bugs me is when women complain that dating is hard.

 

It's like somebody who always takes a taxi complaining how hard it is to get around. Try being the driver, then you can talk about difficulty.

[Revolver]

This is also an interesting article about why/how men start hating women via the dating game:

 

5 Ways Modern Men Are Trained to Hate Women | Cracked.com

 

Great quote: "...there are two ways to dehumanize someone: by dismissing them, and by idolizing them."

 

 

Cracked has THE best articles on the Internet

[Els]

It's like somebody who always takes a taxi complaining how hard it is to get around. Try being the driver, then you can talk about difficulty.

 

Probably out of topic, but I MUCH prefer having a car to drive than relying on cabs. Cabs are expensive, you usually need to either call them beforehand and then wait for them, or search around til you find an available one to hail because they aren't always everywhere. With driving, you're in complete control of when you leave, what route you take to get there, AND you don't get your pockets cleaned out.

[SJC2008]

I don't think I'm entitled to a 10 like the article states and wouldn't waste my time because I live in reality. I have always gone for girls in my league but mabye my league is even lower than I thought. Also, in my City, if a woman is average, cute or better and is a little chunky or however you want to phrase it, there's a strong possibility her man will be skinny. I'm not fat but I'm not skinny so unless I go for women who are bigger than me (propotionately) it's Palmela and cocobutter.

[verhrzn]

Let me ask you a question, how many of your ex's & friends work in It/computers/tech?

 

I'm a developer, and I can tell you that it is a very common mentality among guys in IT. I can also pretty much explain why they are the way they are to. IMO a lot of them never made it out of the junior high trying to prove who's the biggest/coolest man phase. If you step outside of your normal social circle, I think you will find that this mentality is the exception and not the rule.

 

Not too many of my friends work in IT, but almost all of them are nerds, and I think you have a good point. My armchair psychologist guess is that a lot of them are trying to fill up a self-esteem hole with the external validation of sleeping with lots of women. They say that they desperately want a relationship... but it also seems that they have very unrealistic expectations for what a relationship is like (never fight, no stress, hot sex forever, gorgeous and perfect, etc.)

 

So it is possible that my experience is skewed, but Dr. Nerdlove is also writing to guys like my friends, guys in my social "scene," so in context, he is completely correct.

 

As far as stepping outside my normal social circle, the occasions I have I've found either frat party boys or married men. The married men, I just assume found their Perfect Girl before hitting the player mode (most of them dated all through college, for example.)

 

I would have liked to see more on that topic but he never touches on it again. I wonder if there was a reason why...

 

Because his audience is nerdy men. I've already mentioned in this thread that he touches on "nerdy girl" problems rarely, though he has once in a while. The "reason" is usually mixed in with a lot of his other articles; for example, in his article on Booth Babes, he points out how nerdy women are in a double-bind because if they're hot, they are not seen as authentic, and if they're not hot, they aren't seen as desirable.

 

The part that bugs me the most, is that the author insinuates that men should settle for below average woman and that way men have no right to complain that it might be difficult. Of course there is no mention of women having to settle. Unless going for an average guy is settling...

 

His audience is nerdy men. Nerdy men with problems dating. I'm pretty sure if a woman wrote to him saying "Oh why don't 6 foot rich Adonis sex gods want me?" he'd have a similar stance.

 

However, that is not who is writing in. Nerdy men with an "overdeveloped and under-deserved sense of entitlement" to hot chicks do.

 

Read that paragraph again. You continue to claim you just want someone "inside your league." Except you talk about leagues ONLY in terms of looks, ignoring all the other myriad of ways leagues happen (social skills, hobbies, lifestyles, etc.) You may not want a "perfect 10," but the fact that you still judge women ONLY on their looks in regards to your own shows your sense of entitlement to "hot" loud and clear.

 

And I've said it before and I'll say it again... every time you whine about how women DON'T have it tough in dating and how guys totally settle for "average" chicks, when I've been constantly dumped for hotter women, I just want to smack you. How bout, just once in a while, trying some empathy?

Edited August 3, 2012 by verhrzn

[somedude81]

Because his audience is nerdy men. I've already mentioned in this thread that he touches on "nerdy girl" problems rarely, though he has once in a while. The "reason" is usually mixed in with a lot of his other articles; for example, in his article on Booth Babes, he points out how nerdy women are in a double-bind because if they're hot, they are not seen as authentic, and if they're not hot, they aren't seen as desirable.

 

His audience is nerdy men. Nerdy men with problems dating. I'm pretty sure if a woman wrote to him saying "Oh why don't 6 foot rich Adonis sex gods want me?" he'd have a similar stance.

A big issue that men have, which I'm sure you've seen first hand, is that some men simply believe that women don't have problems with dating.

 

Talking more about women's issues would help to humanize them.

 

Read that paragraph again. You continue to claim you just want someone "inside your league." Except you talk about leagues ONLY in terms of looks, ignoring all the other myriad of ways leagues happen (social skills, hobbies, lifestyles, etc.) You may not want a "perfect 10," but the fact that you still judge women ONLY on their looks in regards to your own shows your sense of entitlement to "hot" loud and clear.

I've pointed out over and over how I care about more than just looks.

 

The main reason I focused on looks in this topic is because NerdLove kept bringing up that nerdy guys only wants 10's. I am saying how that is not the case.

 

There are many other things that come to mind when I think of leagues. But the fact of the matter is, because of where I live and who I primarily interact with, most of those other qualities are automatically met. I'd have to get to know somebody better to see the deeper ones.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again... every time you whine about how women DON'T have it tough in dating and how guys totally settle for "average" chicks, when I've been constantly dumped for hotter women, I just want to smack you. How bout, just once in a while, trying some empathy?

Verhrzn, you are a special case.

 

Take from that what you will

[verhrzn]

A big issue that men have, which I'm sure you've seen first hand, is that some men simply believe that women don't have problems with dating.

 

Talking more about women's issues would help to humanize them.

 

So write in and ask him to do an article on it. Or glance at his FB page or any of the comments... they are FILLED with nerdy women lamenting their dating woes. Or are all of them special cases as well?

 

I've pointed out over and over how I care about more than just looks.

 

The main reason I focused on looks in this topic is because NerdLove kept bringing up that nerdy guys only wants 10's. I am saying how that is not the case.

 

There are many other things that come to mind when I think of leagues. But the fact of the matter is, because of where I live and who I primarily interact with, most of those other qualities are automatically met. I'd have to get to know somebody better to see the deeper ones.

 

You may care about more than looks, but you measure leagues exclusively on looks. Gonna get harsh for a moment here: you are an older man still attending college (so no solid career yet but also not on the same "peer" level as the people around you), and admittedly have few hobbies and a very stilted social life. You look at a girl and think you are "in her league" because of her looks, and your looks, but you don't take into account the OTHER league qualifiers when she rejects you.

 

Instead, when she rejects you, you immediately jump to the idea that she won't "settle" for an "average" guy and has some unrealistic expectations.

 

So you may care about more than looks but you are still evaluating yourself (and women) based almost entirely on appearance. Nerdy men may not want "10's" strictly speaking... but they seem woefully unable to self-examine their own flaws (and strengths) and go after appropriate partners, and instead choose Idealized Women as their targets, creating a wave of bitterness when that woman does not reciprocate.

 

Am I or Dr. Nerdlove saying "settle"? No. But what he (and I) argue for is honest self-examination, and if you are perhaps lacking in a league, either looking for people who are also lacking, OR raising your own value. Nothing wrong (strictly speaking) with wanting the young, hot, bubbly co-ed, but then you better be the thing that young, hot, bubbly co-eds are attracted to.

[TheBigQuestion]

I agree with the overall premise of the article, i.e. that women as a whole do not have more "power" in dating/relationships than men do. However, they DO typically have more dating, NSA sex, and relationship OPTIONS than men do at any given time.

 

With that said, this article is full of unsubstantiated generalizations about men that, had said generalizations been directed towards women, it would have drawn the ire of most of the female posters on this board. Also ridiculous is the insinuation that the men targeted by the article should lower their standards of physical beauty. Most men, regardless of whatever BS "subculture" they belong to, DO NOT feel exclusively entitled to supermodel-like women, and statistically, couples with like-levels of attraction pair up. Then again, it doesn't surprise me that people with cynical and/or adversarial attitudes towards dating would agree with these types of generalizations.

 

V, if you seriously think any of the guys who think there is a major power imbalance between the sexes in dating would have their opinions changed by such an article with such a blatantly white-knight tone, you were sorely mistaken. When will you learn??

[brahmabull117]

However, they DO typically have more dating, NSA sex, and relationship OPTIONS than men do at any given time.

 

 

Somebody please explain to me how in the world this is possible. It takes two to tango

 

 

 

How can women have more options than men when women's options ARE men?

[brahmabull117]

Because, as we all know, humans can only have sexual intercourse with one other person every decade. I mean it's not like one attractive guy could service multiple women, how absurd.

 

 

 

I agree but there aren't any more women servicing multiple men than there are men servicing multiple women

 

 

 

it all evens out

[verhrzn]

I agree with the overall premise of the article, i.e. that women as a whole do not have more "power" in dating/relationships than men do. However, they DO typically have more dating, NSA sex, and relationship OPTIONS than men do at any given time.

 

Yeah. Tell that to any of my exes. Maybe guys just don't realize they have options because they aren't willing to lower their physical standards. Or willing to put themselves out there. Or maybe you're just assuming women have more options. Do you have any evidence to suggest that women have more dating, NSA sex and relationship options than men?

 

It doesn't even make statistically sense... how can single women have all these options but not men, if there are an equal number of men and women at any given time?

[TheBigQuestion]

Somebody please explain to me how in the world this is possible. It takes two to tango

 

 

 

How can women have more options than men when women's options ARE men?

 

 

Do yourself a favor. Over the past few years, there have been a few threads here the topic of which were "how long was your longest dry spell?" Search for them. You want to know what the responses were?

 

There was a comical imbalance between the male and female posters. Even the men who are "successful" with women had ridiculously long dry spells. We're talking 8-12 months. Most of the women who responded, save for the ones who are (by their own admission) obese, never had a dry spell longer than 5-6 months. The ones who did deprived themselves of sex willingly. Most of the women on LS in their 20s have never gone more than 4-5 months between relationships.

 

Don't believe me? Don't take my word for it! Search for the threads and see for yourself. Then try the same on any other message board and see what guys have to say. Do a wide cross section, everything from bodybuilding forums to nerdy forums. Do the same in real life. If you have honest, straightforward male and female acquaintances, I'm willing to bet my left nut (it's my bigger one, mind you, so this is a big f**king deal, as Joe Biden would say) that you would notice a discrepancy as well.

 

A man who can honestly say that the shortest amount of time he went between sexual experiences is a mere two months is a rare creature indeed. A woman? Not so much.

 

Again, I don't infer a "power imbalance" or any such nonsense from these findings.

[ThaWholigan]

Except for the part where there are more men servicing multiple women than the other way around. That's how it was thousands of years ago and that's how it is today.

Ah, it's good to know you're thousands of years old then, Methuselah .

 

 

Hypergamy doesn't exist.

[proseandpassion]

The guys I know who have a lot of sex with a lot of different women will almost always f@#& anything that moves. Fat, thin, old, young. So maybe y'all should just lower your standards. Then your numbers will skyrocket!

[fortyninethousand322]

Hypergamy doesn't exist.

 

It doesn't have to be hypergamy though. I mean what about a girl who is totally head over heels for some guy (to the point where she won't consider dating anyone else) and that same guy is dating/in a relationship with/married to somebody else? I think that is something that happens way more often with women than it does with men.

[Andy_K]

It doesn't even make statistically sense... how can single women have all these options but not men, if there are an equal number of men and women at any given time?

 

A woman has an option every time a man makes his interest known.

 

A man has an option every time a women makes her interest known.

 

Since men make a LOT more approaches/advances, women have a LOT more options.

[iris219]

A big issue that men have, which I'm sure you've seen first hand, is that some men simply believe that women don't have problems with dating.

 

Talking more about women's issues would help to humanize them.

 

We aren't a different species, Somedude. :roll eyes:

 

What we want you to understand is that women aren’t beating quality guys off with a stick. There is no line of relationship minded men trying to date us. It is very hard to sift through the men trying to use us for sex and those who have so many issues it’s scary. Normal is not easy to find. Compatible is even harder to find. If the girl is lucky enough to find a compatible man, she has to hope the guy feels the same way about her.

 

Then women turn 30 and have almost no options whatsoever. Men still have lots of options over 30 because they are willing to date much younger women.