Question for WS/fWS...third date syndrome?

[Owl]

A topic that was originally posted on the OW/OM forum was the question to the validity of the thought that an affair often remains in a "perpetual third date" like state.

 

Where there is a lot of the warm/fuzzy feelings WITHOUT the intrusion of day to day stressors or negatives like you might expect to find in a marriage type relationship.

 

I read many responses on that forum from OW...but I'm curious if the "perspective" from WS/fWS's may have been the same or different from that of the affair partner?

 

Thoughts on the "third date syndrome" concept from that WS/fWS perspective?

[Radagast]

A topic that was originally posted on the OW/OM forum was the question to the validity of the thought that an affair often remains in a "perpetual third date" like state.

 

Where there is a lot of the warm/fuzzy feelings WITHOUT the intrusion of day to day stressors or negatives like you might expect to find in a marriage type relationship.

 

I read many responses on that forum from OW...but I'm curious if the "perspective" from WS/fWS's may have been the same or different from that of the affair partner?

 

Thoughts on the "third date syndrome" concept from that WS/fWS perspective?

 

I commented on this in another thread on this forum, but essentially that is the complete opposite of my experience.

 

There were stressors from the outset, and certainly nothing like what you describe as "third date syndrome". Nor would I have wanted that. I wasn't looking for superficial fluff, I wanted something meaningful, someone I could share adult concerns with as a partner, someone I could have an adult to adult relationship with.

 

We had many challenges from the start, but the beauty was having shared values and being able to work as a team to face and overcome the challenges, and bonding in a very deep way through the process.

 

It was really satisfying to have someone to share concerns with, someone who I could talk to about professional, domestic and personal issues whose response wasn't simply to blame and shame, but to approach things empathetically and constructively and to allow a dialogical finding of solutions or to provide support. It really mattered to me that I had someone I could share issues with, mine, hers, and ours.

 

Which is not to say we did not have good times too, but they were very much grounded in normality. I learned from her that positivity is not about fun and frivolity, but about attitude even in challenging and stressful times.

 

I think for me the most important thing was the comprehensiveness of our relationship. We had it all, good, bad, brilliant and difficult. And daily humdrum. We could be ourselves completely with each other, instead of having to be a certain way only like the inauthentic self I had to adopt with my then-wife. We were just ourselves, and we knew that the other would accept us for who we were, completely, without blame or judgment or retribution or abuse. Who we were was good enough.

[SoMovinOn]

Having been a WS, a BS and an OM, I can tell you that some A's are like this and some are like that and some are like something else.

 

I've been in A's where I made it clear from the beginning the only purpose was for fun and sex. However, even then, day to day life exists. There is no way to eliminate it. Add to that, the reality that the A couple is usually dealing with the day to day realities of both their lives, as well as the added difficulties encountered in keeping the A secret.

 

All in all, the perpetual "Third date syndrome" concept of A's is a myth.

[beenburned]

Does it make a difference if you were having an exit affair vs cake eating?

[seren]

Owl, I read the other thread and the replies to this one and while I could say what H told me, when I asked sort of the same question, I am aware it would be tinged with H's want to say what he thought I might want to hear. So, tonight I asked my friend whose 20+ yr marriage has ended because her H discovered she has been having a 5 yr A. The A was a huge surprise to me, I had no idea, neither did her H.

 

I didn't ask specifically if it was like a third date, but why have the A if she loved her H, which she maintains she did/does and if it was for the thrill. I figured that after 5 yrs the A relationship must have developed more than a third date basis. Sue (let's call her that), said that her marriage was her 'normal' life, that it had grown samey and that while she loved her H, the A was exciting, the meetings which took place on average twice a week, weren't long enough for there to be any real issues, sort of like the honeymoon years in a marriage.

Of course there were issues, but that they were different from the marriage. The marriage being a separate entity from the relationship she had with her H. The marriage had shared responsibilities, children, financial issues, day to day niggles, just everyday stuff which cropped up, as they do in any relationship when you live and share a life with someone. These were not enough to make her not love her H, but she often felt it wasn't enough and that she wanted to feel like she did in the early years. This, she says, is what the OM relationship did for her.

 

To be more specific, she said that when she met the OM, she prepared for it, dressed for it and mentally left the day to day behind. At home when she came home from work, she changed into comfy clothes, took off the make up, put on her slippers and relaxed, in the A, she dressed up, wanted to look her best, present her best face and that it felt she was going out somewhere. In the A relationship there were issues, but they did not have the drip, drip effect as she then left and went back home to a different sort of life, one where she was 'wife', 'mother' etc and all that went with that, in the A, she was just Sue. I asked if it was ever 'normal', she said that of course it wasn't normal in the same way it was in her marriage, it couldn't be, it was fulfilling a different need, but, she also said that she couldn't see her with the OM on a permanent, long term basis as the excitement would fade, much the same as it does when married.

 

It seems to me she wants the excitement of being Sue, without the responsibilities of being a wife or mother and all the humdrum that can exist in a long term marriage. Which, while maybe not third date syndrome, is similar. I had asked H something similar and he said that they met for a few hours here and there, text messages and sext messages, which were exciting, but was not real. he said that if you toted the time spent with the OW up, it wouldn't amount to a fortnight of the time we spent together and so it was natural that the same issues and problems wouldn't arise. While he shared some of the problems he was going through with the OW, her response was consoling and understanding whereas mine would have been more sorting out and addressing and that I wouldn't have put up with some of his crap behaviour.

 

Of course all A's are different and everyone might want to believe that the A relationship is not just sparkly dust, I am sure some aren't, equally I am sure that for some, the excitement, the being able to put on hold the problems in the marriage (as opposed to the relationship in the marriage) and ordinary life is a factor. I often wonder if the intensity of reconciliation is akin to third date syndrome, the rediscovering of each other, not the wife or mother and the reconciled relationship, which becomes changed, is as a result of not taking the person or relationship for granted.

[wayward 99]

In my case I can see how that was the case for quite some time, and the A was really an escape from reality for me. A huge stressor and ongoing source of pain for H and me was our finances, which I didn't have to deal with in my r with OM. Over time though I think that changed. I relied on him for emotional needs, and he on me and we walked through quite a few big (outside the affair) life stressors supporting each other. The deceptive and illicit nature of the affair made it extremely stressful and tortuous rather than exciting, IMO. OM opened up to me and I feel like I knew him better than my H, who is a closed book.

[seren]

Are you still married Wayward, still in the A or have you left and with the OM?

 

Living with a closed book must, I would imagine, be difficult, I hope things are better now.

[wayward 99]

Thank you Seren. I did end things with OM as I discovered in IC that I'm not in a healthy place in be in a relationship. H and I are in mediation prepping for divorce.

[anne1707]

I am pretty sure I have already posted this somewhere on LS in the past but in some ways I have equated my 3 year affair to 3 months of dating. The time spent together was not that often in spite of us working together, there was never any "routine" about the time together - i.e. no routine or mundane tasks of life, there was an absolute lack of reality in terms of how that would typically build steadily in a "normal" relationship. The way Seren has described her friends's affair is very similar to mine - it never really got out of the honeymoon stage.

 

Although I can remember that one lunchtime I had to go shopping and he joined me. I knew what I wanted to get and so just wanted to go, buy, leave as quickly as possible. He just walked so fkg slowly - it was driving me mad. I can remember thinking how annoying he was and I could never put up with somebody like that - he really irritated me. That was in the final weeks of the affair so maybe we had got into the 4th month/date

[wayward 99]

Hmm..the more I think about this the more I realize my affair existed in the everyday, mundane. I did a lot of things for OM that a wife would do- I redecorated a few rooms in his home, folded his wash, took shopping trips at walmart with him (not in our town), etc. We did a lot of everyday stuff just because we liked each others company. All that time though I was caring for him I was betraying my family.

[beenburned]

Owl,

 

I would think the biggest difference in perspective would come from one AP being married, and the other AP being not married. If the single AP has never been married at all, then they can't realistically compare.

 

Where, if both APs are married, they are more likely to see things from a common viewpoint.

[Silly_Girl]

I think there are potentially 'day to day stressors' in an A not present in a marriage also though.

 

There were for me. No fantasyland magical fairy dust

[beenburned]

SG,

 

Like what?

[Owl]

Hmm..the more I think about this the more I realize my affair existed in the everyday, mundane. I did a lot of things for OM that a wife would do- I redecorated a few rooms in his home, folded his wash, took shopping trips at walmart with him (not in our town), etc. We did a lot of everyday stuff just because we liked each others company. All that time though I was caring for him I was betraying my family.

 

And I could see that you might not be doing these things for someone you were "just dating" I guess.

 

But...where these things that you felt that you HAD to do...or things that you WANTED to do.

 

I think that's a key difference that gets overlooked here. Everything you do when dating...or when in an affair...is a CHOICE.

 

When you're married...it's no longer optional...it's expected.

 

What about doing the really 'drudge' chores? Did you clean his bathrooms? Clean out his fridge?

 

Those are the kinds of things that I personally feel are totally lacking in an affair environment that exist in a 'day to day' marriage environment.

 

And while the term used is "third date syndrome"...the intent is basically to indicate that the relationship never truly progresses beyond a dating level relationship into a more marriage like one.

 

And that allows both parties to focus on the POSITIVE aspects of the relationship a lot more than is typically possible in a "non-affair" relationship.

 

My opinion...other mileage may vary.

[cocorico]

.

 

What about doing the really 'drudge' chores? Did you clean his bathrooms? Clean out his fridge?

 

Those are the kinds of things that I personally feel are totally lacking in an affair environment that exist in a 'day to day' marriage environment.

 

 

I didn't clean his, he did. And he cleaned mine. He did chores around my house, though not as many as around his where he did everything, because I and my kids were used to doing our own chores and not just leaving it all to him. He enjoyed chores around my house a lot more as we all pitched in, and made it into a fun shared activity which is how I brought my kids up. She didn't do chores - that was for servants.

[Summer Breeze]

When reading the responses from many of the OW on the thread in the OM/OW forum the consensus is exactly what you're saying Owl. There are daily stressors, they aren't the same as in a M, and that there are limitations so it will never be quite the same.

 

The point I was trying to make clear with the thread over there was that As don't stagnate in some mythical and magical state. They have their own stressors and problems that can put the whole R in very difficult circumstances. The concept that it never goes beyond the glory of losing the shine of a third date is, for most As, not a reality at all. While the pressures and issues may not be the same as in an M, they are real and they cast a very real light on both parties.

[Summer Breeze]

And I could see that you might not be doing these things for someone you were "just dating" I guess.

 

But...where these things that you felt that you HAD to do...or things that you WANTED to do.

 

I think that's a key difference that gets overlooked here. Everything you do when dating...or when in an affair...is a CHOICE.

 

When you're married...it's no longer optional...it's expected.

 

What about doing the really 'drudge' chores? Did you clean his bathrooms? Clean out his fridge?

 

Those are the kinds of things that I personally feel are totally lacking in an affair environment that exist in a 'day to day' marriage environment.

 

And while the term used is "third date syndrome"...the intent is basically to indicate that the relationship never truly progresses beyond a dating level relationship into a more marriage like one.

 

And that allows both parties to focus on the POSITIVE aspects of the relationship a lot more than is typically possible in a "non-affair" relationship.

 

My opinion...other mileage may vary.

 

When I'm in any sort of R I do things because I choose to. When I was M and we remodeled the house I did all of the wallpapering and sewing of the soft furninshings. I cooked, cleaned, and gardened. I did it all out of choice. I wanted to be M and I wanted to have pride in my home and family. I didn't 'have' to do anything. I chose to be there. One of the recurring (and correct) statements on the infidelity and OM/OW forums is the fact that people are where they choose to be. With that logic (which I agree with) the things I do in ANY R are the things I choose to do. I don't HAVE to do anything, expected or not.

 

I didn't clean his fridge or his bathroom, but when I was M those were things I did anyway so I saw it as 'ours' not his. We did lose our tempers at each other at times. We had arguments and we dealt with family and business issues. We shared a bank account and we often fought over money -- he was lavish and I was frugal and it caused a lot of issues between us at different times. There were some very mundane things that we just did because we enjoyed them, just as Wayward mentioned.

 

As I've always said it had limitations and when it wasn't enough I ended it. It was past the honeymoon phase about 2 months in for me.

[Summer Breeze]

I didn't clean his, he did. And he cleaned mine. He did chores around my house, though not as many as around his where he did everything, because I and my kids were used to doing our own chores and not just leaving it all to him. He enjoyed chores around my house a lot more as we all pitched in, and made it into a fun shared activity which is how I brought my kids up. She didn't do chores - that was for servants.

 

It's funny you say that. He had gardeners and a daily housekeeper at their home. He loved doing the mundane things that weren't part of their lives anymore. That's me -- mundane and boring!

[Radagast]

I think that's a key difference that gets overlooked here. Everything you do when dating...or when in an affair...is a CHOICE.

 

When you're married...it's no longer optional...it's expected.

 

Expected or not, many married partners choose not to do certain things.

 

My ex-wife chose not to do chores in or around the house.

She chose not to be physically intimate with me. Both in terms of sex, and in terms of holding hands or sitting close or hugging or any display of affection.

She chose not to spend time with me sharing things that interested me.

She chose not to eat meals with me at home.

She chose not to speak kindly to me, or to compliment me, or to treat me with respect.

 

By contrast, my then-lover chose to do all of those things, even though there was no expectation.

 

Both were exercising choice. Is it any wonder I exercised a choice too, and chose to be with the one who wanted to share the mundane and the exciting with me, and the one who treated me with respect?

 

My wife and I now share chores and mundane aspects, just as we did during the affair. And although it may now be "expected" because we share our homes and our lives, it does not stop us acknowledging each other's contribution or thanking each other for things like if one does the other's laundry as well as their own, or making a tasty meal, because for us part of our relationship involves being aware of the good things the other brings to our lives, and being thankful for that, and letting the other know, and not taking each other for granted or feeling entitled. I am thankful for her every day in my life and I choose to let her know (and she me). Expected or not, it's still a choice.

[FitChick]

There is a Cheating Forum as a subforum under Dating. I don't understand why threads like these are suddenly ending up here.

[anne1707]

There is a Cheating Forum as a subforum under Dating. I don't understand why threads like these are suddenly ending up here.

 

It's been moved here by the Mods from the OW/OM forum so they must be of the opinion that this is the right place.

 

It is rather confusing though, I agree