Authentic

[2sure]

I think the ability to be your authentic self is a wonderful thing. I think that often when love starts , it is in part because we have found someone who loves us for ourselves and we love them in return, faults and all.

 

Fast Forward Life. Kids, Bills, In Laws, Belly Fat, No surprises, etc. It's life, it's still beautiful, it's what you make it. But , many people take a look around and happy or not...kinda say: How'd I get here? I'm more exciting than this. I wanted more than this. I wanted to ...go to Machu Picchu or whatever the F.

Bored, insecure, midlife crisis, spoiled or neglected...

 

Enter Affair. I'm new. I'm exciting. I'm funny again. I'm hot. I like Tofu!

THIS is who I really am!

 

Yeah, NO.

 

I offer my take on this from when I was OW, more than once. I think the reasons are the same for WS and OW..Affairs are really really really easy to be your authentic self in because in the beginning at least, and always for me...Nobody really gives a sh:t. it isn't going anywhere, It is the ultimate no strings relationship, no pressure, no obligations, you can't tell anyone about that scar on my butt, You cant tell anyone about anything! zero inhibitions sexually because what the hell.

And if you stop turning me on or you stop being fun for me, or you annoy me..You're gone. just like that. Not so much as a conversation required...but that won't happen much because...

 

It's very freeing. Its almost honest....

Except I can actually be with you who No one is in real life, nearly perfect because that's what you need me to be...so you think I am. I'm the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Just my experience.

 

I'm not saying affairs are without reality or without real love or emotions...just that the whole Authentic thing...is not very complicated.

Edited July 31, 2012 by 2sure

[Silly_Girl]

Silly girl,

 

There will always be people we are more compatible with over others , as we travel life's long journey.

 

I have no problem with people who divorce because they want to live an authentic lifestyle.

 

The people I do have a problem with are the ones that deliberately waste their spouses lives after they realize this fact.

 

I really don't think there is such a thing as a perfect spouse with whom we are completely compatible.

 

We agree on all points...

[scatterd]

It must mean I have to be phony all the time the mate makes me feel bad about who I am. A reason to justify cheating maybe.

[angie2443]

Hmm....I think it is easy to be your true authentic self when their is NO expectations of a future together, only the here and now in these stolen hours away from our realities.

 

How great does that sound? There is nothing to disagree about; nothing to negotiate or compromise or self-sacrifice for: just me gazing into your adoring eyes as you gaze into mine as we wish for more time together.

 

No interruptions, crying kids, barking dogs, backed-up toilets, car repairs. Just candles, and sexy lingerie, and back rubs and telling your football injury story to a fascinated audience for the very first time.

 

There are no judgements, bill-paying, house chores, child-rearing, sick parents or the myriad of daily acts that can allow arguments, resentments, fatigue, or bickering.

 

I can be whatever I want to be and you can too in the affair.

 

We have no expectations of each other; hell, we do not really know each other, just what is presented when we see each other.

 

The perpetual perfect third date.

 

If no relied on me, had expectations of me, demanded I uphold my end of our responsibilities.....well, then no one can find any reason to be disappointed or annoyed with me.

 

I am free, free, free to be my always happy, charming, unfiltered, brilliant, and quintessentially perfect self mirroring back the adoration I see in my lover's eyes.

 

What a wonderful fantasy.

 

I think this is exactly it.

[GLDheart]

It must mean I have to be phony all the time the mate makes me feel bad about who I am. A reason to justify RE-EVALUATING BEING IN THE RELATIONSHIP ANY MORE maybe.

 

Fixed it for you.

[Summer Breeze]

People change and grow through their lives. Sometimes the individuals in a couple don't do so at the same rate.

 

Some people go into a R not being themselves. They can be so desperate to be in an R that they portray themselves as something they aren't and pretty soon they're in the R and it's only a matter of time till the real them comes shooting out.

 

Age differences or cultural differences can cause issues too. I was involved once with someone a few years older than me. It was great when we were first together but as time went he started being 'old' to me. I think 2 things happened. When we were first together he was trying to be what I was looking for and when he got comfortable in the R he became himself. I loved his company but was never comfortable with his kids being close to my age but figured I could cope with it. Neither did anything to hurt the other but I think we both found ourselves not being quite honest with ourselves or each other so that we could carry on the status quo. What would have happened if we'd gotten M and still had the issues? Could we have ended up with one of us having an A? No idea. I'm pretty sure I'd never cheat and I don't think he is but knowing him and his value on being M he may have eventually rather than D again.

 

I'm not excusing anyone cheating because they've gotten themselves into the situation, or grown into the situation, but as far as not being authentic in their M I can see how it can happen.

[mercy]

It was rude of me to change your post, sorry.

 

Fixed it for you.

[GLDheart]

Fixed it for you.

 

[ver13]

Great topic,

 

If only it were true that they are hindered in some way from expressing their true self- From where I'm standing they are truly showing there partner who and what they all about. Selfish, Dishonest, untrustworthy and immature... Why else would you attempt to minimalize your defects of character by claiming you just can't be yourself with your partner if you never have truly tried to be.

[Radagast]

I have read several posts by WS that have said one reason they cheated on their spouse was that they couldn't be their authentic self in their marriage.

 

What exactly does the spouse or marriage have to do with you not being your authentic self around them?

 

It has to do with the compromises you make living with someone and sharing space. Someone smokes, the other doesn't, so the smoker goes and smokes outside.

 

In my first marriage, my then-wife made it abundantly clear what she did and didn't consider acceptable about me. My music was not allowed - it was "noise" and "hurt her head", so the only music that could be played in the house was her limited range of classical choral music. Which, over the years, I grew to hate. But that didn't count because "it was good for you". My laughter was not allowed - it was too loud. If I suppressed it, it was "giggling like a girl", which was not allowed either. Even smiling was frowned on, "what's so funny? Life isn't a circus!" But then, grumpiness other than her own was also not allowed. "What have you got to be miserable about?" followed by list of her, far more serious, woes. So basically any mood or any emotion had to be suppressed because it was just wrong.

 

And then opinions, they weren't allowed either, unless you expressed full agreement with whatever she said, even if she'd expressed the exact opposite five minutes earlier. She was allowed to change her mind, but you weren't. Your opinion was always ill-informed, or plain wrong, even if you were the world expert. She knew better, through common sense and logic.

 

Food was another matter. Anything spicy was "too rich" and anything healthy was "too bland" and anything vaguely foreign was "too exotic". Yet if you produced anything that met her criteria you'd be blamed for making her fat. It became a lot easier to feed myself and the kids before she got in, and cook separately for her (she ate in front of the TV anyway).

 

Spare time. Her interests shrunk to choral singing, knitting and gardening. And watching TV. She'd complain we never spent time together as a family (what teenage kids enjoy knitting, or watching choral singing on TV?) which meant, taking her to knitting shops all over the country. If we complained or refused, we were selfish. If we suggested something else we might all enjoy (an arty film, or visiting a coffee shop) we were selfish, we knew she hated that cinema / didn't want to get fat / had other important things to do.

 

Holidays. She often travelled alone, to choral festivals or exotic places "far too expensive to take the whole family" yet would expect me to take (and pay for) everyone on holiday when I travelled to exotic locations for work. I did try that early on but it did not work out, as she complained incessantly that I was working all the time instead of entertaining her and the kids. Her ideal holiday was expensive Mediterranean hotel in peak season with all you can eat and drink thrown in with a package of entertainment in some plush purpose built resort for English people who don't want to interact with locals, sample local cuisine, get to see the place (aside from a coach trip) etc. I hated that. I preferred staying in small local places, getting to know how people lived and getting a sense of the place instead of spending days sailing, playing tennis and getting drunk and fat with rich Brits.

 

My friends hated her, though most were too polite to say so until I spoke to them about leaving her. So they never came to visit, and only invited me over when they knew she couldn't or wouldn't come. My family barely tolerated her, and excusing her behaviour and explaining away her rudeness became so tiresome that eventually it was just easier to phone instead of visiting, even for big events. She considered them provincial, would sit in another room when we visited them reading the newspaper, expecting to be waited on and not ever helping with meals or cleaning up. She hated her own family and expected me to do likewise with mine, and considered it "infantile" and "unresolved" that I still loved them and enjoyed their company and considered it an act of war that I refused to sever all ties with them and swear allegiance only to her.

 

Writing it down makes it clear to me we should never have stayed together as long as we did, if we should ever have been together at all, but at the time I'd felt that I needed to keep my promise of staying with her and "being on her side" against the rest of the world, and trying to fix her, made as a naive young man who really believed that with love and loyalty I could make her happy. Since my counselling I read a fair bit about co-dependence and co-narcissism and recognise in my former self the strong need I had to be needed, to misplaced belief I had that I could make a difference to her and that hope that one day all would be well, she'd love me for who I was as well as what I'd done for her, and that we could be happy. It took falling in love with a strong, happy, healthy woman to realise just how distorted my view was, and how suppressed and inauthentic I'd become in my marriage, and how much potential I had for love and happiness in a proper, healthy relationship.

[Radagast]

Hmm....I think it is easy to be your true authentic self when their is NO expectations of a future together, only the here and now in these stolen hours away from our realities.

 

How great does that sound? There is nothing to disagree about; nothing to negotiate or compromise or self-sacrifice for: just me gazing into your adoring eyes as you gaze into mine as we wish for more time together.

 

No interruptions, crying kids, barking dogs, backed-up toilets, car repairs. Just candles, and sexy lingerie, and back rubs and telling your football injury story to a fascinated audience for the very first time.

 

There are no judgements, bill-paying, house chores, child-rearing, sick parents or the myriad of daily acts that can allow arguments, resentments, fatigue, or bickering.

 

I can be whatever I want to be and you can too in the affair.

 

We have no expectations of each other; hell, we do not really know each other, just what is presented when we see each other.

 

The perpetual perfect third date.

 

If no relied on me, had expectations of me, demanded I uphold my end of our responsibilities.....well, then no one can find any reason to be disappointed or annoyed with me.

 

I am free, free, free to be my always happy, charming, unfiltered, brilliant, and quintessentially perfect self mirroring back the adoration I see in my lover's eyes.

 

What a wonderful fantasy.

 

Actually, the converse was true for me. While I had been reduced to a role / responsibility in my marriage, I yearned to be able to share those things with a partner, to have someone I could sit down and discuss my dying parent's condition with that I know loved him as much as I did, or to share my concerns about my kids' failing school marks, or to shop for paint and dance around like maniacs to loud funky music as we redecorated the house. I felt so lonely in my marriage, I yearned for someone to share the adult stuff with, as well as fun times and physical intimacy. I did not like being reduced to a one-dimensional man leading a life of quiet desperation, I wanted a future with someone I could dream with, debate with, plan with, execute with, review with, and live fully and authentically with. I wanted to share, not simply provide.

 

And in my affair I had all that. We had plenty of challenges, plenty of bill-paying, household chores, sick parent caring, working, parenting issues, all sorts of domestic and other circumstances to deal with but the satisfaction came from facing and overcoming challenges together, working as a team, finding how similar our values were and living by our principles instead of compromising them away to keep the peace.

 

It was everything I'd ever imagined a marriage should be, and I resented that I couldn't have that in my marriage and had to find it somewhere else.

[Owl]

Radagast...I don't mean this as any kind of personal attack, but an observation that you might consider.

 

You're every bit as much to blame for the state and condition of your first marriage as your wife was.

 

You gave her all that power. You were the one who ALLOWED her to dictate all of these things to you.

 

You accepted it, embraced it in the beginning, and remained in that state for as long as you did.

 

You're right...you never should have married this woman to begin with.

 

But the fact that you couldn't be your "authentic self" was in no way her fault...but yours. You got into a relationship you shouldn't have to begin with (your first marriage) with someone you shouldn't have (your first wife), and surrendered everything "authentic" about yourself willingly and voluntarily.

 

You weren't "authentic" because you chose not to be.

 

It's sad that you and your first wife had to suffer as long as you did to learn this lesson.

[whichwayisup]

^^^^

 

SO many reasons to NOT get married in the first place!

 

Very true.

 

Sounds like you and your wife were NOT compatible from the get go. It's sad it took so long for the marriag to end and both of you suffer so much strife and pain.

[Radagast]

Of course! And their projections too!

 

And many a person brings their messed up family of origin with them.

 

So, if my wife asks me to take out the garbage, do I hear the voice of my nagging mother or the same tone as my father's disapproval?

 

Do I then project that emotion onto my spouse and harbor resentment?

 

Could be.

 

When I see my AP and we have no responsibilities to manage with each other; when all we have is uninterrupted interludes of undivided attention with no expectations or obligations, HOW could that not be....perfection.

 

There is NO basis of actions by which to assess true character.

 

An affair seems to me to be ALL idealization, with no daily grit thrown in to muddy the fantasy.

 

So I can connect with a co-worker over some stupid topic and be absolutely charming and scintillating and fabulous. Truly authentic and impressive.

 

But if that same co-worker woke me up at 2 a.m to take care of a sick baby, well.....I'm sure his opinion of my perceived perfection would change very rapidly.

 

Interesting notions.

 

My family of origin was pretty idyllic, in the main. My parents split when I was small but my mother and stepfather have a strong, loving and very respectful relationship that to this day I would struggle to find any fault with. I was raised in love and generosity, and even though I went through adolescent difficulties with my stepdad I never doubted that I was loved and cared for. There were no voices raised in anger, no harsh words, no physical violence. There were no resonances in my first marriage with my family of origin, no nagging parent's voice resonating in my nagging ex-wife's - it was just her. She was broken, she had not known love as I'd known, and I owed it to her to fix her.

 

And it was precisely seeing how my love responded so very differently to my wife when faced with domestic crises, or other challenges, that won my heart. They way she bore real illness so cheerfully, compared to my then-wife's malingering. The way she pitched in and helped, instead of balking or flinching when effort was required to fix something. The way she sat with my dying father, nursing him, laughing with him, caring for him, loving him, and supporting me through it all, while my then-wife shied away, dissing him to me and complaining about how he'd never liked her, and making it all about her when he was the one dying.

[Radagast]

Radagast...I don't mean this as any kind of personal attack, but an observation that you might consider.

 

You're every bit as much to blame for the state and condition of your first marriage as your wife was.

 

You gave her all that power. You were the one who ALLOWED her to dictate all of these things to you.

 

You accepted it, embraced it in the beginning, and remained in that state for as long as you did.

 

You're right...you never should have married this woman to begin with.

 

But the fact that you couldn't be your "authentic self" was in no way her fault...but yours. You got into a relationship you shouldn't have to begin with (your first marriage) with someone you shouldn't have (your first wife), and surrendered everything "authentic" about yourself willingly and voluntarily.

 

You weren't "authentic" because you chose not to be.

 

It's sad that you and your first wife had to suffer as long as you did to learn this lesson.

 

It's true. Even as a teenager I should have known better than to allow myself to be seduced by a sophisticated older woman. I should have stood my ground and left her, drunk and being harassed, in the pub, and walked away, letting her become someone else's problem, not picking up a problem I could then not get rid of easily. I should have phoned a cop, her "abusive" husband, anyone, instead of trying to help her myself. I did not have the skills, the life experience, the resources. I was a kid. I thought I knew better and could fix the world, including her, but I couldn't. It took me my entire adult life to figure that out, but I should have known it back then and walked away.

[Radagast]

What if they didn't feel that when they got married? Thought that being dutiful was the full extent of life?

 

I think especially for us, English men of a certain generation, this is true. I think it may be very different for Americans, if media portrayals are accurate and life really is more focused on self-fulfillment and individuality, but back here in sodden Blighty it really is all about Doing One's Bit for King and Country. Or at least, it was. Seems to be different for kids these days, thank god.

[Radagast]

It must mean I have to be phony all the time the mate makes me feel bad about who I am. A reason to justify cheating maybe.

 

My ex-wife certainly did make me feel bad about who I am, all the time. I came to internalise that and I did feel I was a failure, and loser, with no prospects, etc. Being told the same thing consistently for more than 30 years can start to sound like the truth.

 

Does that "justify cheating"? I wouldn't say justify, but perhaps explain. If I'd had more self-confidence, healthier self-esteem, a sense of self untainted by thirty years of sustained abuse, I'd have been able to walk away very easily. I'd have walked away years before, decades before, and found a better match. But, in as much as I was focused on fixing her brokenness, I failed to recognise that I was in the process becoming broken myself, and that the longer I stayed in that toxic relationship the more broken I became.

 

The affair literally "rescued" me in that it provided me with an alternative future, a glimpse of a different possibility, for the first time. Instead of feeling bound by duty and obligation to stick it out with a broken partner in a toxic relationship trying to raise to increasingly damaged kids, refusing to recognise the damage because it was in me too, I suddenly had a picture of what a healthy relationship looked like, and even more - an healthy relationship involving me. I realised that I was capable of a healthy, loving relationship. That a healthy, strong, beautiful woman loved me, that I was lovable, and that I loved her, and was capable of loving such a person. To those who've never been in abusive relationships that probably sounds daft, but those who have will recognise how big a deal such a realisation is. It's a very important first step to allowing yourself to grow, to heal, and to leave.

[Radagast]

Very true.

 

Sounds like you and your wife were NOT compatible from the get go. It's sad it took so long for the marriag to end and both of you suffer so much strife and pain.

 

I often wonder about this.

 

If I hadn't tried to save her, had left her with her "abusive" husband, would things have been better for her in the long run? Would she have faced up to her problems and gotten the help she needs? Or, if not me, would she have found some other kid to "save" her and dragged them both down into a living hell for decades, too?

 

Certainly I wish that when she begged and pleaded for me to take her back after the first separation that I'd put self before duty back then, and said no. I had the chance, and I blew it.

[whichwayisup]

But if you two were never compatible from the get-go, someone else could've been a better match. Some people bring out the worst in one another and can't see that until it's too late.

 

Do yourself a favour though, don't reach back and wonder the what if's of the past. your experience made you who are you today, good/bad and the ugly.

[Spark1111]

Agree. And I think when those imperfections, or real life as I like to say, intrude on the fantasy the bubble bursts and the WS is left with 2 relationships that aren't working. At that point I think those WS's that are confident their spouse is a reliable back-up plan are willing to risk coming clean to the BS to reestablish their base of emotional and sexual security. Those that fear their spouse will divorce them continue to hide things and probably take up with another AP. Either way, I don't think that the psychological issues that motivated the cheater are ever "cured". At best the WS can remain abstinent from screwing other people, but they are who they are. Total conjecture on my part, but it feels right or at least plausible.

 

P.S. I don't think you meant "flagellant". Autocorrect strikes again!

 

In my case, I was sooooo angry I refused to be his default choice, or consider reconciliation, or even talk of any future with us. Threw him out and wished them well.

 

He moved in with her, and it went pssssst in three weeks of day in and day out living.

 

Hence, for my sitch.....their perpetual third date was over for good when every day reality intruded.

 

GD that autocorrect! Those flatulant cheaters SHOULD BE self-flagellating!

[Radagast]

But if you two were never compatible from the get-go, someone else could've been a better match. Some people bring out the worst in one another and can't see that until it's too late.

 

Were we incompatible from the outset? Certainly back then it wasn't obvious. She listened to my music - she wanted me to teach her about what I enjoyed, since it was so different to her own interests. She went out with me to see my friends, who were very impressed with this sophisticated older lady and acted in complete awe of her as I guess adolescent boys do. She shared books with me and we read together. She claimed political views and religious views that resonated with my own, and voiced principles that I still hold today. Much of that changed over time, though. Her avowed atheism gave way to religious fervour. Her socialist views became increasingly right wing. Having sworn never to want children she started to view motherhood as women's true calling. Her feminism shifted into misandry.

 

Some changes were sharp, triggered by events such as her miscarriage. Others were gradual, becoming apparent only with time and sometimes hotly denied, or even subverted, as though she'd always been religious and I was lying claiming she'd ever expressed atheist views although I still have the letters stating such. Thinking about it, I think at the time we got together she claimed many views that were the diametric opposite of those her parents had held, because she hated her parents so. But over time she shifted and reverted to those views she'd been raised with, becoming more and more like the parents she'd hated, and hating me for continuing to hold the views she'd once held but had ceded over time. It was as though she expected me to have changed in synch with her, and could not conceive of my not having done so, and saw my "refusal" to do so as some kind of indictment on her. She really could not understand that someone could hold an opinion that differed from hers, in any way.

 

Do yourself a favour though, don't reach back and wonder the what if's of the past. your experience made you who are you today, good/bad and the ugly.

 

This is true, and thank you for this. I should just let go, but I do sometimes feel guilty for having made a promise (to fix her, and stay with her) that I could not keep. My wife says I can't be held to promises I made in good faith without knowing all the facts, as a child, but it's still difficult for me to accept that I failed in what I'd taken on as my duty.

[Radagast]

^^^^

 

SO many reasons to NOT get married in the first place!

 

I missed this post.

 

Yes, if she'd been like that / honest about that from the outset, fair enough. But back then she expressed views like mine, claimed to enjoy (or wanted to learn about) things that interested me, and seemed genuinely interested in me. Perhaps she simply outgrew those things and expected me to do the same. Perhaps she'd exaggerated her interest initially to seduce me. Perhaps it was simply the inevitable changes that people go through over so many decades. If I met her today, I would certainly never marry her, nor fall for her seduction. Oh the benefits of hindsight.

[Spark1111]

It's true. Even as a teenager I should have known better than to allow myself to be seduced by a sophisticated older woman. I should have stood my ground and left her, drunk and being harassed, in the pub, and walked away, letting her become someone else's problem, not picking up a problem I could then not get rid of easily. I should have phoned a cop, her "abusive" husband, anyone, instead of trying to help her myself. I did not have the skills, the life experience, the resources. I was a kid. I thought I knew better and could fix the world, including her, but I couldn't. It took me my entire adult life to figure that out, but I should have known it back then and walked away.

 

Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20.

 

At some point, we alone are responsible for our happiness, our authenticity, our self-actualization, either with ourselves and our relationships.

 

No one can give us that. We can only give it to ourselves and hope we find a person worthy to share it with.

[Spark1111]

I think the ability to be your authentic self is a wonderful thing. I think that often when love starts , it is in part because we have found someone who loves us for ourselves and we love them in return, faults and all.

 

Fast Forward Life. Kids, Bills, In Laws, Belly Fat, No surprises, etc. It's life, it's still beautiful, it's what you make it. But , many people take a look around and happy or not...kinda say: How'd I get here? I'm more exciting than this. I wanted more than this. I wanted to ...go to Machu Picchu or whatever the F.

Bored, insecure, midlife crisis, spoiled or neglected...

 

Enter Affair. I'm new. I'm exciting. I'm funny again. I'm hot. I like Tofu!

THIS is who I really am!

 

Yeah, NO.

 

I offer my take on this from when I was OW, more than once. I think the reasons are the same for WS and OW..Affairs are really really really easy to be your authentic self in because in the beginning at least, and always for me...Nobody really gives a sh:t. it isn't going anywhere, It is the ultimate no strings relationship, no pressure, no obligations, you can't tell anyone about that scar on my butt, You cant tell anyone about anything! zero inhibitions sexually because what the hell.

And if you stop turning me on or you stop being fun for me, or you annoy me..You're gone. just like that. Not so much as a conversation required...but that won't happen much because...

 

It's very freeing. Its almost honest....

Except I can actually be with you who No one is in real life, nearly perfect because that's what you need me to be...so you think I am. I'm the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Just my experience.

 

I'm not saying affairs are without reality or without real love or emotions...just that the whole Authentic thing...is not very complicated.

 

I think this is brilliant and rings true for me and my sitch.

 

Where there are no real expectations or obligations, no public life or worry, how freeing it must be to be able to be anyone you want.

[skylarblue]

I have read several posts by WS that have said one reason they cheated on their spouse was that they couldn't be their authentic self in their marriage.

 

What exactly does the spouse or marriage have to do with you not being your authentic self around them?

 

At first, I didn't believe xMM when he'd say things like he's never felt free to be himself before me. Surely, he was his authentic self in the 3yrs he dated his W before proposing and in the 10yrs of M before we met. Of course he has, but I believe he's never felt as free to be his real self as with me. Let's see:

 

I never gave him any opposition to what he said or did. I played into every role and fantasy xMM could've wanted. Everything was about him and how could I make him feel happy and special and sexy and understood, etc. xMM was treated as if he could do no wrong. Of course he felt free, authentic, himself with me. It's easy to do when you have no boundaries, restrictions or consequences holding you back, and you can decide who your authentic self is as you go along.