M30USA Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Let's just face it. You see it on TV. In small chat everyone knows it's the truth. Women run the show in modern marriages. Why is it like this? You know...if equality is what women want, why not have equality then in marriages? But it's gone beyond that. In the majority of marriages I've seen the wife bosses the husband around, she says do this or do that and he up and gets to it without a word--because he knows what will happen if he doesn't. Meanwhile if most husbands dare tell their wife to do something, it's up for debate and he will probably get an argument in return. What is the deal?
todreaminblue Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Let's just face it. You see it on TV. In small chat everyone knows it's the truth. Women run the show in modern marriages. Why is it like this? You know...if equality is what women want, why not have equality then in marriages? But it's gone beyond that. In the majority of marriages I've seen the wife bosses the husband around, she says do this or do that and he up and gets to it without a word--because he knows what will happen if he doesn't. Meanwhile if most husbands dare tell their wife to do something, it's up for debate and he will probably get an argument in return. What is the deal? a relationship isn't a show its an extended death sentence for the male.I s that what you wanted to hear.Marriages are ending in divorce more frequently , men walk away from families and that is in the stream of life.the person left behind either swims against the stream like salmon and gets burnt out and big black bears pick them out of the water like fresh sushi ,or you die and just float away.I guess it is your choice....you convinced me in no love there.So you choose..
Author M30USA Posted July 30, 2012 Author Posted July 30, 2012 Don't you think viewing women as being the boss from what you see on tv is a little warped? It's TV........not life. Perhaps you've been watching a bit too much reality (cough, cough) tv. I hardly watch any TV at all. I'm just going off the real marriages that I've seen with family and friends.
Author M30USA Posted July 30, 2012 Author Posted July 30, 2012 a relationship isn't a show its an extended death sentence for the male.I s that what you wanted to hear.Marriages are ending in divorce more frequently , men walk away from families and that is in the stream of life.the person left behind either swims against the stream like salmon and gets burnt out and big black bears pick them out of the water like fresh sushi ,or you die and just float away.I guess it is your choice....you convinced me in no love there.So you choose.. Men are leaving families? 70% of divorces are initiated by women. 1
todreaminblue Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Men are leaving families? 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Who told you that..... did I say marriage? I give up yep blame the women I agree one purr cent you are correct...Happy now....deb
Radu Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Don't you think viewing women as being the boss from what you see on tv is a little warped? It's TV........not life. Perhaps you've been watching a bit too much reality (cough, cough) tv. Like it or not, TV is educating new generations, so that 'warped' stuff will eventually become reality. Oh, and in 70% or more of cases, women initiate divorces, not to mention that in also 70% of cases divorces are unilateral ...
dreamingoftigers Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Honestly I was conforted by the filing statistic. It let me know last year that even though my husband had been completely divorce-worthy, he was unlikely to file. Often at the end of a relationship, men want to get everything organized to the last inkling before filing, including the new gf. Women file as soon as they can't take anymore. My husband screamed divorce a whole bunch of times. Where was he? Not St the courthouse filing for it. Many days came and went where I had to practically hold myself back from doing so. Honestly, I'm surprised I didn't. But, it wasn't because I was the more disgruntled and off the walk paricipant in our marriage at the time. Ironically even tonight my husband asked me what happened to a piece of pottery I made as a girl that had been with us since we moved in together. I shyly reminded him that it was broken last year. He knew when - he's what happened to it. Oh well.... Truly it isn't "the husband" or "the wife" who is in charge or even the sanest one. It's mostly the one who lets the other one affect them less. When my husband acted as though he didn't give a crap, he held all of the cards with me sobbing over how I just wanted my family. I called a divorce-busting coach and he asked me about his addictions more. He then asked me "would you give him the keys to your car?" I said "hell, no. I haven't all summer (thank god)." then said to me, "why would you give him the keys to your relationship?" That's when I realized I have just as much say in this marriage as he did. He didn't control the vows I made or the plans of us being a family. He could make other plans, but he wasn't anywhere near stable. I wrote myself goals and just stayed focussed on building myself up for my family. I didn't let him push me around or manipulate me or guilt trip me because I didn't want manipulation, guilt trips or being pushed around to be part of my family. So many times I just wanted to thunder at him and chew him out for what he put us through but I knew that wouldn't get any of us to a better place. I backed right off a respected that he could choose to do whatever he wanted with his life and I couldn't force him or guilt him to be a good Dad or husband. I held my line. I refuse to be "in control" of this marriage. I live my life and contribute into this marriage. I wouldn't accept a partner that does less, but I wouldn't abandon one either. I stuck to my 180 for about nine months and the tide rose slowly and then grew into large waves. My partner is now a responsible part of this marriage and family. Btw, one of the nights he shouted at me that he wanted a divorce, I just had enough and said "well you know my stance on that. If you want one, go get the kit and I'll pay you back half but I'll be damned if you'll pressure me to file. That's right honey, if you want a divorce go get one, no one is stopping you." And he says to me "I'd never hear the end of it.":laugh: interesting logic. 2
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 she says do this or do that and he up and gets to it without a word--because he knows what will happen if he doesn't. Yikes! WHAT will happen if he doesn't? Will it be like that Stephen King book where the scary lady keeps the guy chained up in a room? "Misery"? YIKES! 3
frozensprouts Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 I think that divorce is becoming more common for any number of reasons, but perhaps the greatest one isn't purely a 'female" thing or a "male' thing... it's more a thing of people ( both men and women) thinking that marriage is romance all the time, that everything is sunshine and roses, and that "love" is enough to keep it going through thick and thin... that you'll always get along, that you'll never disagree. It's not. It really seems like some people hit their first rough patch, and just decide to chuck the whole thing... too bad people spent as much time and effort on their marriage as they do on their wedding... 1
stillafool Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Well I have to admit I've seen it in quite a few marriages where the wife bosses the husband around or says things to him or about him that would never be acceptable if it were the other way around. I don't think it is fair at all.
maybealone Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 This is not a new thing. I think to some extent, women have "run the show" in marriages for decades. Maybe centuries. They have often been the ones to decide how the money is spent/saved, what the family does on weekends/vacations, and so on. I do not, however, remember seeing women treat their husbands like crap decades ago. Maybe it didn't exist, or maybe it was just better hidden. But it does seem that in recent years, I do see women belittling and bossing around their husbands in public. I see men treating wives that way too, it just seems more socially acceptable (for lack of a better term) for women to treat husbands like that. And more likely that men just sit there and accept that behavior from their wives. Fortunately it is not all that common, but it still bothers me. As for women filing the majority of divorces, that is because men do not want to be the bad guy. Plain and simple. They want to be able to say their wives left them. As for couples thinking marriages have to be all romance and sunshine, that might be something a younger generation needs. Personally, I have not seen marriages end for any other reasons than cheating, alcoholism, or neglect. And by neglect, I don't mean lack of flowers and ass kissing. I mean actual, hurtful neglect. 1
todreaminblue Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Im pretty sure by men walk away from families you mean women drive men away by initiating the vast majority of divorces and making contact with the children contingent on cash money payments. Not in my case....I pay half the fares for them to visit their dad I let him off some if he wants to go on holiday, i have a private flexible agreement.I actually pay for a hell of a lot more I pay the medical bills, schooling weekend sport. 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Which is nice and all but we both know this isn't about you specifically. The way the family court system is set up coupled with the fact that there's a tried and true saying regarding pissed off women getting married is an incredibly bad decision for men. Except in my case, where my husband is certainly one of the luckiest men who ever trod the Earth. My first one was, too. By the way, I initiated the divorce. After he destroyed everything we'd built together pursuing his ravenous drug addiction. I'm so mean.
Eclypse Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Dreaming of Tigers I want to ask you a question. Youve made many similar posts over the last few years and this one is no exception. So can I ask why haven't you divorced this man? It's obvious that there is no love left in this marriage. He seems like an abuser who treats you horribly. Not to mention he sounds like a worthless sack of ****. Why do you put up with it? And how do you feel this environment will acfect your child as they grow up?
dreamingoftigers Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Dreaming of Tigers I want to ask you a question. Youve made many similar posts over the last few years and this one is no exception. So can I ask why haven't you divorced this man? It's obvious that there is no love left in this marriage. He seems like an abuser who treats you horribly. Not to mention he sounds like a worthless sack of ****. Why do you put up with it? And how do you feel this environment will acfect your child as they grow up? Yes, 3 years of our marriage were an unstable Hell and my husband could be described as a piece of "Shiitte." However, I believed both him and I to have communication issues and him to have a mental illness that I needed to protect my daughter from BUT that without exhausting all options, did not make him a fully-worthy object of divorce. I won't get into justhow far I went, but I managed to pull enough together to provide treatment et al for him. He was always willing to try it, just so caught in his own crap that he wouldn't have been able to straighten it out for himself. (I mean he would have died first). His family, including his mother who died quite young, had similar issues. When we were younger and we married it appeared that those issues had escaped humans that he was quite fine despite all of the factors he had in his background. We simply were wrong. I didn't believe that abandoning him was the proper way to deal with the situation despite the pain it was putting mr through. I made my "exit strategy" and then delved into the issues at hand. It's pretty hard watching a spouse flip from monster to child and back again. When he became abusive, I couldn't live with it anymore and it wasn't fair to my daughter or myself. I booted him out and redoubled my efforts to get him help. One physician he went to see gave him Dexedrine which he got hooked on and the guy more then tripled he dose in under two months. It was just one more thing he had to quit. That was brutal to watch him struggle with that. He took it. One attempt provided more of a band-aid approach to help him deal with the underlying issues. It was an unmitigated disaster. He didn't follow-through and went, well, I would describe it as "completely cloudy." he had to leave again. This time he turned to alcohol. I refused to deal with that. Mental illness is one thing, but mixing booze with it is a no-win scenario (re: my father). I backed off until he hit rock-bottom and sobered up. At this point he was more desperate than ever for help and realizing they he was going to (not maybe) lose everything, He quit drinking and took every available option he was recommended to or offered. Including a domestic violence "pathways to change" course where he got a lot out of it. He received a proper diagnosis from a new physician and took proper medication. He went for recovery and relapse. (ironically my father was placed in the same group, the exact same group). And we began marital counseling and he has been reading communication and relationship books. His mind is much more clear now, more like when we were first married. It's been about nine months and I don't see the monster anymore, and not the child (well, not very often). He is an excellent (!) Dad. Him and T are very close and every day she is excited to see him come hone or pick her up. They go to the park a few times a week and the swimming pool. We read books every night. With the courses he had, he is great with relating to her, and better with me. At this point, with the medication plus the help he has been receiving, he is in pretty good shape and started back to school this semester. (we actually attend the same school and class, it's nice. I'll be done about a year before him.) he has been very focussed, which has also been nice. To say that there is no live left on our marriage, is a very large assumption. I've learned from this whole experience that you love more what you put effort into. I've put a lot of effort into my marriage. You see it all the times on these boards, whoever doesn't need to put the effort into maintaining a relationship, ends up cheating. They have nothing to lose because they haven't invested anything. In my case, I needed to back off give my husband space to make his own efforts. I do love my husband, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to go to the mattresses for him these last 3 years. I love my child more and when issues came up regarding her (due to the situation) I chose to put everything she needed far beyond him and his issues. He's 34, she's 3 no matter how screwed up he's been. I believe that in the long run, with my husband having gotten (and continuing to get) the help he needs, he is an asset to her. A great one. My husband sane and sober: well, he shines. If ever he decides to go back to that (which I really can't forsee at this point, he's come REALLY far) I will let him go completely because he can see how dark and miserable that path is and knows it very well. I believe that now he can be her functioning Dad and teach her proper ways to behave in a relationship as well as providing a template for a future mate. At this point I would only be chucking my marriage out of resent, instead of for any practical or sensical reason. I resented having to go through all of it, but I could see it was beyond him "being selfish." it was like sometimes he couldn't see more than two feet in front of him or that he believed that the consequences just didn't apply to him. I also should mention that I had EMDR therapy a few years back (and since) and that mental illness and trauma is like the thinking difference between day and night, so I could really tell what he was dealing with, it was really "all about him and his inner demons." the ONLY way he could make a sane and rational decision was for him to have help first. It's hard watching someone do that to themselves. I'm rambling a bit here but anyways to sum up: yes he was a turd. I knew that there were options that he couldn't get or see by himself. I was his wife, even though it was tough and hard to see at times my respinsibility as someone who is his life-partner was to do what could before giving up without having it define my own life. My daughter, he and I have benefitted from it and I'm glad I stuck it out. I refuse to go through it again and my daughter is older now so I won't risk her memory of these types of things. I stick by my stance of having seen a bigger picture. He worked substantially to regain my trust
frozensprouts Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Sometimes you can marry a great guy/girl and due to circumstances that person can change...mental illness, addiction, physical illness, and any number of other things can come up that can change a person and test your marriage and what it's tipping point is... I suppose marriage is like anything else in life...there are no guarantees, but one way you can hedge your bets is to put in as least as much as you want to get out of it... as for mass media's representation of women in marriage...whether that is a reflection of reality or whether it is driving reality is kind of hard to say...I don't know, and don't really watch TV anyway, as I don't tend to like very much of what's on today ( I prefer documentaries)... but one thing to remember ( especially with mass media) if you are looking for a certain attitude to prove your point or rationalize your own, you're sure to find it...whether it's an accurate portrayal of reality is another story 2
TaraMaiden Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Women run the show in modern marriages? Trust me, women have always run the show, regardless....We just let you guys think you can have the odd say now and then, but on the whole, with the occasional exception, you guys are your mothers' sons.... 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Because, as we all know, drug fiends have substantial assets to take. It's very generous of you to allow him to keep his half of the crack pipe though. I don't get it. There were no crack pipes. It was more like syringes. We also had a beautiful home, a thriving and challenging business with faithful and beloved employees, a family, etc … He had 14 years of clean and sober life behind him when he "went out." Yes, I filed for the divorce. 1
Radu Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 This is not a new thing. I think to some extent, women have "run the show" in marriages for decades. Maybe centuries. They have often been the ones to decide how the money is spent/saved, what the family does on weekends/vacations, and so on. Try millenia. I hear western feminists who think what an abusive system patriarchy is. What they don't realise is that those systems are generally a mix of patriarchy and matriarchy. Meaning, generally the woman has run of the household, she makes the decisions in raising the kids and how the money is best spent for the kids. Men have the duty to make the money and fight wars. Feminists focus on just the aspect of 'who is in charge' on a political level, but conveninently forget that most men who accomplished something in life did it because of a powerfull woman who supported them, powerfull in her own way. Their view is that women are equals only if they challenge men on what they do, they conveniently forget that feminism is about choice. I do not, however, remember seeing women treat their husbands like crap decades ago. Maybe it didn't exist, or maybe it was just better hidden. But it does seem that in recent years, I do see women belittling and bossing around their husbands in public. I see men treating wives that way too, it just seems more socially acceptable (for lack of a better term) for women to treat husbands like that. And more likely that men just sit there and accept that behavior from their wives. Fortunately it is not all that common, but it still bothers me.I witnessed such a discussion between my cousin's wife, her sister, her mother and 2 other women. Because of the layout of the room, they didn't see me. In my personal opinion these ppl badmouth, nay ... betray, the one person they should count on the most in life. I have also witnessed a few discussions of this sort coming from men, but the frequency is much higher with women badmouthing, and quite frankly ... it's quite vicious. As for women filing the majority of divorces, that is because men do not want to be the bad guy. Plain and simple. They want to be able to say their wives left them.Bull****. In most western influenced societies, men are punished for the divorce. They lose full time acces to kids, in quite a few countries they have to pay alimony and child support [mandatory], and most men have been conditioned to believe that they can't care for children. On a serious guy's record, a divorce is a blotch. Women will wonder why didn't she want you. Your ex will probably play the damsel in distress card to victimise herself, and will alienate your kids if need be. The thought that some abusive ******* will enter your kid's life and start being called 'daddy' tears you apart. For men, divorce is a very bad deal, he is expected to give up their house to the mother, for the kids, as it's the 'man thing to do'. We are qualified as the 'provider' by many women, weather they admit it or not. Once that is taken away we have a crisis of identity, what are we ? We are still fathers, we still pay for the kids, why can't we seem them that often ? On the other hand i've seen quite a few females play the sympathy card, bat the eyelashes, let a tear drop and be considered a damsel in need of rescue. As for couples thinking marriages have to be all romance and sunshine, that might be something a younger generation needs. Personally, I have not seen marriages end for any other reasons than cheating, alcoholism, or neglect. And by neglect, I don't mean lack of flowers and ass kissing. I mean actual, hurtful neglect.Really. I have a friend, his wife just blurted out one morning 'i want a divorce'. No reason given, she was just passing 30. I have my cousin, divorcing just 1.5yrs after marriage, under 1yr from the white dress wedding [religious service separate]. She can't control him fully, he works, takes care of the baby, she is out in clubs up to the mornings. She has huge debts, her stated reason ? He didn't bring her flowers when she gave birth. This woman works in the medical field and refused to give her baby normal milk, only non-fat one. 1yr old baby I can go on with more examples. Suffice to say, i had 4 such examples in just 1yr who scared me off marriage something fierce. One of the reasons i joined LS in fact. Maybe you should go on dates as a man. See how it is. Date the princesses who text constantly during your date. The ones who date you eventhough you have no chance because 'well, you asked for my company, i don't have to do anything'. The ones who have insane lists and will next you for the tiniest infraction. The ones flake on you. It's gotten so bad that i give props to girls who contact you and say 'not interested, gl'. The ones who play games with you, every freaking time. But you are right, these women were probably neglected. Bad Radu !
dreamingoftigers Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Sometimes you can marry a great guy/girl and due to circumstances that person can change...mental illness, addiction, physical illness, and any number of other things can come up that can change a person and test your marriage and what it's tipping point is... I suppose marriage is like anything else in life...there are no guarantees, but one way you can hedge your bets is to put in as least as much as you want to get out of it... as for mass media's representation of women in marriage...whether that is a reflection of reality or whether it is driving reality is kind of hard to say...I don't know, and don't really watch TV anyway, as I don't tend to like very much of what's on today ( I prefer documentaries)... but one thing to remember ( especially with mass media) if you are looking for a certain attitude to prove your point or rationalize your own, you're sure to find it...whether it's an accurate portrayal of reality is another story Frankly, I expected MY mental history and family history to present the issues in our marriage since my husband seemed so well-adjusted. He was very very good about concealing things before they broke right down. They say that "you know" or that "there's signs" buy I've been over it and over it for a very long time and there just wasn't anything that suggested this aside from his family history and he has been away from them for 12 years and didn't seem to have any residual issues about it. In fact a large part of why I married him was because he didn't have "mommy issues." I accepted a long time ago that two people with our family history alone would encounter issues. A lot of people get married figuring that they are "normal" with a "normal" partner and that they will always love, respect and understand each other. I honestly believe that every couple will provide at least one dealing breaking moment to the other. The odds of one having an affair are 40%, there's so many stupid things to get addicted to out there, there's mental illness, and there is always the possibility that one of you will be dumb enough to get drunk and slug the other one time. Thanks to modern technology, many more possibilities are right at your fingertips. It's the rare couple that can marry young and smartly prepare to prevent all of these possibilities. I truly believe that a single incidence or phase can be overcome if partners are patient with each other for it to resolve in the one hand while protecting themselves from an onslaught of garbage on the other. Separation(s) should be exercised in these cases as long as reasonably needed. Did you know that 80% of couples that have lasted longer then 20 years have had a separation at one point. Going through short-term crap to settle into to a happier or more stable long-term just seems to be part and parcel.
Pyro Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Let's just face it. You see it on TV. In small chat everyone knows it's the truth. Women run the show in modern marriages. Why is it like this? You know...if equality is what women want, why not have equality then in marriages? But it's gone beyond that. In the majority of marriages I've seen the wife bosses the husband around, she says do this or do that and he up and gets to it without a word--because he knows what will happen if he doesn't. Meanwhile if most husbands dare tell their wife to do something, it's up for debate and he will probably get an argument in return. What is the deal? On TV? Because we all know that TV is real life and their is no acting involved on TV. I can agree that in some marriages women do run the show. Perhaps it is best that way. Perhaps those men are incapable of making rational and responsible decisions on his own. Some other men just need to grow a backbone and stand his ground. The rest of us have good marriages where both the husband and wife have their say and compromise is made. Marriages aren't perfect and you have to understand that sometimes in a marriage the wife will get her way and sometimes the husband will as well. 2
Kamille Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 *Wonders who in CE and Pyro's marriage runs the show. *Thinks no matter who, it's likely a very nice show. 1
Pyro Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 *Wonders who in CE and Pyro's marriage runs the show. *Thinks no matter who, it's likely a very nice show. Refer back to the last two lines of my previous post 1
Kamille Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Refer back to the last two lines of my previous post You mean CE and you aren't in a constant power struggle? But but but - what about the war of the sexes? 1
Author M30USA Posted July 30, 2012 Author Posted July 30, 2012 On TV? Because we all know that TV is real life and their is no acting involved on TV. I can agree that in some marriages women do run the show. Perhaps it is best that way. Perhaps those men are incapable of making rational and responsible decisions on his own. Some other men just need to grow a backbone and stand his ground. The rest of us have good marriages where both the husband and wife have their say and compromise is made. Marriages aren't perfect and you have to understand that sometimes in a marriage the wife will get her way and sometimes the husband will as well. I think the men who are most at risk in marriage are the ones who are generally laid back yet still responsible. We don't obsess and go frantic over routine things in life--yet this trait is mistaken for laziness. I think these men typically get steamrolled and bumrushed by their wives because, by nature, these men are not aggressive and are at peace with life.
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