We Both cheated...Now What?

[lucy Reynolds]

Married over 15 years 2 kids. My husband (H) found out I was having an affair with his best friend for the past 18 months by reading emails. I confessed all. Many hurtful emails..he read one which was nvr sent but said, “I have such difficulty having sex, especially kissing cause i just don’t want to...I’d rather be with myself... do u have the same issue? Is it difficult for u to have sex? and if so what do u do to deal with it?” Beyond hurtful I know.

 

OM (the other man) & I talked all the time..started slowly and 10 months in we had sex…6 times. The words love & a future were discussed. We had unsuccessful breakups. In fact, if I didn’t get caught I probably would’ve continued even though it was killing me although it would’ve eventually died a natural death.

 

I feel awful for hurting my H, had an “aha” moment realizing that I do really love him, learning it’s easy to tell someone u love them when ur H is secure. My affair was a symptom of something wrong in our marriage.

 

6 months ago I told H I wasn’t happy & went to counseling..helpful on certain levels but I didn’t tell him about the affair. He asked me if I was having an emo/full blown affair with someone, and I said no. My H and I had a lot of sex during this time and I only had a little email contact with OM. However, I did sleep with OM in June as I took the day off..it would be the last time & then we would try to break it off. Before this always the good wife.

 

I don’t feel emo secure with my H. He has cut ppl out of his life. He & mom didn’t speak for 5 years over something trivial. He is a great person, but he expects perfection from himself and those around him.

 

After my affair was out, my H told me about his ownphilandering… 4[sIZE=3]th[/sIZE] year of marriage had an affair.. more than just physical, but he didn’t speak of love. She got too close he ended it. We had just bought a house, getting prego with first child. Years later another affair w/ a woman half his age. Also physical…she developed feelings, but he didn’t for her.

 

My H & OM become friends & cheated together. H had about 6 affairs..2 before OM and 4 while w/OM. OM was far worse than my H. OM was a bad influence on my husband. My H felt guilty and did it because he wanted to feel like “the man.” He is insecure due to a HS/college relationship. He met with her the other day to resolve some issues with ..it was helpful.

 

He said I never made him feel like I lusted for him. He didn’t want to hurt me by telling me but said what you do sexually with your wife is different than with your girlfriend. We had a good sex life he admits. This was to build his ego. He went to a priest who said not to tell me due to the pain it would cause. He stopped but tried 2 times to meet up with women while w/ OM.

 

At the same time my relationship was beginning with OM. We both agree that if my relationship with OM never began, my H may have continued. Before my affair with OM, H denied an affair when I found viagara/trogan in jacket. Since January my H’s relationship with OM has dwindled for 2 reasons: 1) OM’s wife felt that her husband and my husband spent too much time together 2) OM was secretly seeing me. My H is upset with himself for letting this man get close to me.

 

We are in counseling. We love each other. We talk more openly now than ever. He thinks my affair was worse than what he did and I agree because it was his friend. H is very angry with me. We can get past this and try really hard, and put egos aside. He feels he can’t yet still talks to me about it and has agreed to counseling. We’ve had a HUGE communication problem..we went elsewhere instead of to each other. OM’s wife doesn’t know. My H and OM spoke since this happened/friendship is over. OM and I haven’t had any contact. Is there any hope?

[eeyore1981]

Your affair is worse because it was with his friend? Well, he had six and you had one, so that should more than balance it out.

 

If you guys want to work it out, great, but don't continue to allow him to manipulate you into being the bad guy, what you both did was wrong, equally wrong, and should be treated as such.

[lucy Reynolds]

Thank you Eeyore for responding. My husband thinks mine is worse not only because it was his very good friend, but because mine was a "love" affair as I stated. My H's affairs were very physical. 3 of his 6 affairs include multiple sex with that person. He developed a frienship or a sexual frienship with the women and as soon as the women used the "love" word, he moved on. My biggest issue with my H's affairs is the 1st one 4 years into the marriage just bought a house building our dream together and trying to get pregnant. That one hurts the most also because it was so early. My H has been saying that he didn't have to tell me about the affairs, but he did..so now they are out there. For the moment, I've put his affairs on the back burner while I help him deal with my affair and betrayal. He said that it is my affair that might cause us to get a divorce as it has brought us to our D-Day 3 weeks ago. So we are both betrayed...and I only found out about his affairs the day after I was caught. I think we can get through it, but he isn't so sure. He is still very angry. BTW he contacted his ex-fiance from 25 years ago and they have now seen each other several times...there are feelings there he says on both ends. I think he's too numb to know what he wants right now. What do you think???

[eeyore1981]

Thank you Eeyore for responding. My husband thinks mine is worse not only because it was his very good friend, but because mine was a "love" affair as I stated. My H's affairs were very physical. 3 of his 6 affairs include multiple sex with that person. He developed a frienship or a sexual frienship with the women and as soon as the women used the "love" word, he moved on. My biggest issue with my H's affairs is the 1st one 4 years into the marriage just bought a house building our dream together and trying to get pregnant. That one hurts the most also because it was so early. My H has been saying that he didn't have to tell me about the affairs, but he did..so now they are out there. For the moment, I've put his affairs on the back burner while I help him deal with my affair and betrayal. He said that it is my affair that might cause us to get a divorce as it has brought us to our D-Day 3 weeks ago. So we are both betrayed...and I only found out about his affairs the day after I was caught. I think we can get through it, but he isn't so sure. He is still very angry. BTW he contacted his ex-fiance from 25 years ago and they have now seen each other several times...there are feelings there he says on both ends. I think he's too numb to know what he wants right now. What do you think???

 

BBM

 

Why are you buying into this bs? He has you convinced what you did was more wrong than what he did, you fell for it, and now he gets to ream you whenever the mood hits and play martyr while you take the blame, show the remorse, and do all the hard work. He, on the other hand, skates. Let's look at this...

 

He cheated four years into the marriage. That means he has spent the last 11 years lying to you. You spent 18 months lying to him. Yet he has you believing he is some kind of saint for coming clean.

 

He had sex with six different women multiple times, you had sex with one man six times. He tells you that as soon as they started talking 'love', he bailed, which just means he didn't want complications in his life, but he's got you believing, again, those actions are somehow good and saintly or something, while your actions are awful and terrible.

 

You say yours was a 'love' affair. So what. He cheated with six, go ahead and say it out loud, one two three four five six, different women, and they weren't one night stands. That's horrible, no matter what spin is put on it.

 

I don't condone affairs for the most part, but did it ever occur to you that maybe his non-stop cheating on you for most of your marriage caused the void that you looked to another man to fill, even if you didn't actually know he was being unfaithful? And don't ever forget, whether you were aware of it or not, HE cheated first. And second, and third and fourth at least before you cheated once.

 

And now it appears that he is going to have another affair right under your nose, and you're going to let him because he has you convinced it's just what you deserve. Please. He has you right where he wants you. He can just threaten divorce to keep you in line while he does whatever he pleases, and you will be there to grovel at his feet when he comes home from whatever woman he's screwing this week. Is that really okay with you?

 

He's angry? Fine, but you should be, too. YOUR affair might cause the divorce? His multiple affairs with multiple women should be a contender as well.

 

IMO, if your marriage stands a chance in hell, you need to stand up for yourself as well as have remorse for your affair. If you don't, be prepared to have this thrown in your face for the rest of your marriage while he walks scot free and continues to cheat on you with every opportunity that arises.

[eeyore1981]

And btw, I don't even think your husband is remorseful at all for what he's done. He might even be glad you cheated, because now he can get all his affairs off his chest and not have to make any kind of amends whatsoever, and every time he chases another skirt, he doesn't even have to hide it, because he can just blame it all on you.

[road]

Say your WH/BH had 6 OW and did them once each and you the WW/BW did your OM 6 times. Does that make it even?

 

How many ONS equals a long term FB equals a long term PA/EA with one OP?

 

The point of saying who was worse is point less. Though you should of found someone other then a friend, coworker or relative of your WH/BH. Can't pick lower then you did for an affair partner.

 

Did the OM tell you that your WH/BH cheating on you?

 

What did the OM say to convince you that it was ok to have a PA with him?

 

Did the OM hint at how your WH/BH was chatting up the girls when they were hanging out?

 

I have seen your story happened all too often. Where a predator is out banging everything he can. He gets his friend to follow his lead. When he knows his friend is tied up with his OW the predator then knows it's safe to make moves on the friends wife.

 

Any way your marriage can be recovered. It will take 2 to 5 years of work.

 

First thing is that you will need NC, no contact with the OM for you and WH.

 

If either one of you work with the OM then that job will have to be replaced. The OM lives close, then move far away.

 

Get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. Both of you need to read it.

 

The OMW must be told of your affair with the OM.

 

If you are not wiling to do those things chances are you will not be able to recovery your marriage.

[BetrayedH]

You and your husband are in the position of being "madhatters," meaning that you are both a betrayed spouse and a wayward spouse.

 

Initially it would seem you could be "even" but it simply doesn't work that way. Surviving one affair is an amazingly difficult proposition. The wayward spouse has to be truly remorseful. This means full transparency with your whereabouts, methods of communication (full access to email, texts, phone calls, facebook, etc) - your life must be an open book. You must initiate a "no contact" letter to your affair partner, NEVER contact them again, and immediately report any "fishing" attempts by your AP immediately to your betrayed spouse. You must be willing to bare your soul, share every detail of your affair that your spouse wants. You must rebuild trust and never lie to your spouse. You must institute new boundaries for any future relationships. You must go to individual counseling to figure out why you made such a damaging decision (rather than fixing your marriage or divorcing) so you can help your spouse feel that you would never do this again. You must do all of this proactively, without defensiveness, and you have to do it for as long as it takes for your betrayed spouse to heal. 2-5 years is sadly quite realistic and you have to withstand many stages of grief that your spouse will suffer, including incredible anger. On top of this, you have to have an amazingly forgiving betrayed spouse on the other end.

 

For madhatters, you have to make the commitment to do the work of a wayward spouse and you have to do it for someone whom you don't trust because you are dealing with your own feelings of betrayal. All the while, your spouse is dealing with the exact same problem. It is exponentially more difficult. I can tell you that it's rare to find one truly remorseful wayward spouse (that can do everything I described above) coupled with a betrayed spouse that can ultimately forgive and move on. For two madhatters to make it work is intimidating.

 

Obviously, you're just starting out. It seems to me that you genuinely want to reconcile your marriage and you're looking for hope. Good. Unfortunately, your H seems to not remotely get it, at all. Don't think that you can somehow sweep his affairs under the rug. It doesn't work. He must be held accountable just as you must be held accountable. You cannot put his affairs on the backburner for all of the reasons that have been mentioned by the other posters. There is one very narrow path you can travel and there are landmines on both sides. It your husband wants to go on his own path, don't follow him.

 

Survivinginfidelity.com has an "I Can Relate" forum for people in unique situations and then have an open thread there for madhatters. I suggest you and your husband BOTH go there.

 

Good luck.

[lucy Reynolds]

Ty All...BetrayedH ty for the link and your insight. I think we can get through this if we love each other and if we are strong.

 

Road..No the OM didn't tell me about my husband's affairs even though I asked. And my H never told me of OM's. And thank you for the book recommendation.

 

Just-a-Poster/Eeyore...For the record, my H is a really good husband/father who also made a lot of mistakes...I'm most upset and hurt as I didn't think I married that man and the earliness of his affairs. He said his heart was always with me, and I believe that, but you can't be 100% happy if you're cheating. He has been the kind of husband who gives me a lot of attention. I don't think his affairs led to mine. How he treated me over the years as discussed in the original post made me feel bad and instead of sticking up for myself I took it and it built resentment and I felt emotionally distant from him. I should have went to my husband, but I was vulnerable and an easy target for an affair. The OM knew us well so he knew all the right things to say. I was faithful for 15 years..I wasn't cut out for an affair...it was very uncharacteristic of me and difficult to continue.

 

As for my affair, the biggest blow is the fact that it was his very good friend. Women need an emotional connection to cheat and my H is having a very hard time with the fact that I told OM that I loved him, and I can understand that, but it wasn't real love...it was a fantasy. My affair is so hard to get over especially since my H and the OM went out together and all and did their thing with other women.

 

Anyway, my H and I are in counseling and trying, and for that I'm grateful. I hope he doesn't continue to see the exgirlfriend, but I think he is going to. He has been honest about her and said he will continue to be honest and I beleive him.

 

QUESTIONS: Do you think we should tell the OM's wife? My H and I feel like the OM is getting away with murder while we are in hell. Does she have a right to know who she is married to? Also, my H wants the OM to be "free" to see if I go to the OM...I have made it very clear to my H that I love my H and that I made a mistake and that I don't want OM...and that OM was a "bandaid" for the issues I was having, and that OM brought out the worst in both of us.

[nofool4u]

QUESTIONS: Do you think we should tell the OM's wife?

 

Yes, because she deserves to know she is married to a scumbag.

 

 

My H and I feel like the OM is getting away with murder while we are in hell.

 

That too, he shouldn't be able to get away with it.

 

 

Does she have a right to know who she is married to? Also, my H wants the OM to be "free" to see if I go to the OM...I have made it very clear to my H that I love my H and that I made a mistake and that I don't want OM...and that OM was a "bandaid" for the issues I was having, and that OM brought out the worst in both of us.

 

Well now that you both know each other cheated, question is, do both of you, or just even one of you, think that you can completely block out the vision of the other having sex with someone else? I don't know about you, and women seem to be different in this regard, but your H will, from time to time, play a porn movie in his head of you and his x-friend. And he won't be happy. Those thoughts, as long as you two stay together, will never go away. So if you think the both of you can handle that, then there is hope for you two staying together, I suppose.

[lucy Reynolds]

Ty no fool4u....I agree about the movies in the mind for both of us. He showed me pictures of 3 of the women that he had an ongoing physical affair with. But my AP was his friend who he knows who he himself saw have sex in the same room with another women. So my H mind movies might be harder to recover from, but I too have great difficulty with the fact that my H had A LOT of sex with these 6 women. It's a lot to digest but I love him and I feel he still loves me. I think we can eventually have a stronger marriage after this without all the secrets. My husband and I have a good marriage and we are good friends too, but we fell off the wagon for different reasons.

My H doesn't think he can survive this...He wants an easy fix..and he just wants to be happy, and I understand that as I feel the same way, but I'm trying to CONVINCE him that we can be even happier than we were before if we put ALL our energy into each other. I told him we should at least try and if in 6 months or so he still feels he can't do this, then he would have to evaluate the situation at this point. For the record he is trying and we are in counseling, but he's very up and down, and I'm fearful that he will just throw up his hands and say I can't do this..and that will be it.

[nofool4u]

My H doesn't think he can survive this...He wants an easy fix..and he just wants to be happy, and I understand that as I feel the same way, but I'm trying to CONVINCE him that we can be even happier than we were before if we put ALL our energy into each other. I told him we should at least try and if in 6 months or so he still feels he can't do this, then he would have to evaluate the situation at this point. For the record he is trying and we are in counseling, but he's very up and down, and I'm fearful that he will just throw up his hands and say I can't do this..and that will be it.

 

And your husband may very well not be able to survive this. With my x-wife, the only thing that would have made me certain she would never cheat again is to basically be on house arrest. And trust me, I had thought about staying and telling her that she screwed up any chance at a social life because she proved to me she couldn't handle it.

 

But I didn't want that for myself, so I divorced her instead.

 

Honestly, and it depends on your H, but if he is like me he will stay in a mind frame of looking at you and seeing you and his friend screwing all the time. My thinking is if you two do not divorce, then he will just be angry alot and probably cheat again. And this sucks because both of you cheated. He is no better than you. I'm thinking after some time this marriage will be over, but that depends on you two and if you can at least not let the "visions" eat away at you on a daily basis.

[BetrayedH]

Ty no fool4u....I agree about the movies in the mind for both of us. He showed me pictures of 3 of the women that he had an ongoing physical affair with. But my AP was his friend who he knows who he himself saw have sex in the same room with another women. So my H mind movies might be harder to recover from, but I too have great difficulty with the fact that my H had A LOT of sex with these 6 women. It's a lot to digest but I love him and I feel he still loves me. I think we can eventually have a stronger marriage after this without all the secrets. My husband and I have a good marriage and we are good friends too, but we fell off the wagon for different reasons.

My H doesn't think he can survive this...He wants an easy fix..and he just wants to be happy, and I understand that as I feel the same way, but I'm trying to CONVINCE him that we can be even happier than we were before if we put ALL our energy into each other. I told him we should at least try and if in 6 months or so he still feels he can't do this, then he would have to evaluate the situation at this point. For the record he is trying and we are in counseling, but he's very up and down, and I'm fearful that he will just throw up his hands and say I can't do this..and that will be it.

 

The OMW does deserve to know. For the sake of your own marriage, it should probably come from you. While it will be amazingly difficult for you to do, it may gain you some credit with your H. Of course, be apologetic with the OMW but most of all, be honest. Her H will try to gaslight her and probably try to paint both you and your H as "crazy." Bring proof with you. Answer what questions she asks. Don't proactively share painful details but be completely honest and open when she does ask. In other words, if she asks if you had sex, say yes. Don't say, yes, he said it was the best he ever had. She can ask for details later if she needs them (and she might since he is going to lie his face off to her). But at some point, you have to go no contact with both of them and focus on your marriage. Just do right by the OMW first. She deserves to be able to make an informed decision about how to move forward with her life.

 

As for your husband, you cannot change him or manipulate him into forgiving you. If you are afraid that he won't be able to get over it, keep that fear to yourself. The single most offensive thing you can suggest to a betrayed spouse is that they need to get over it at any kind of pace. If they are even tryin to reconcile, that is a gift and that is all you can ask.

 

As for his old girlfriend, your acceptance of that situation is one step too far in terms of sacrifices made for the sake of your marriage and to make up for your affair. After my wife's affair, I felt an urgent need to have my own (to balance things and to let go of my anger). It does NOT work. The fact is that if you want to be married, you must be faithful. This is the most basic part of the agreement. You should NOT accept any kind of continued infidelity on his part. He needs to be remorseful for his affairs rather than vengeful for yours. If he wants to divorce, he has that right and you will have to accept that this is exactly wht you risked. But you need a healthy boundary, too. That includes not allowing your wayward husband to have girlfriends. If necessary, you file for the divorce yourself to make it clear that this is NOT acceptable. If he wants to remain married, he doesn't get to act like he is single.

[lucy Reynolds]

Ty BetrayedH for good advice...

To Nofool4u...My husband says he always trusted me but even before my affair he always knew where I was 24 hrs a day..he was always like that...checking up on me even if I came home from work a half hour late. Maybe he was always like because he had cheated. So my affair lasted 18 months which isn't that difficult since he was freinds with us..it was a lot of emailing and it wasn't the typical sex once a week for 18 months. We had sex 6 times late in the relationship and yes that is horrible and I take full responsibility for that. Also, I don't have a social life outside of our friends and my job. I don't go out with work friends unless it's an xmas party, retirement party..I don't go out with the "girls"...never did. We have 2 children and a hbouse and all so I'm busy with all that. And if my H and I can continue which i hope we can, I too have trust issues with him. We would have to be an open book with each other including technology..email accounts, FB, phones, etc. The world of technology made his affairs and my affair more accessible. I'm totally ok with us being open with that. After what we did to each other, we owe it to each other. Also, after all the damage we have done, I can't imagine either one of us doing this again. We are both good people who went to others instead of each other. We can grow and learn from it. But it is true I have to give him time. I don't expect him to "get over it." I can't just get over what he did, but I will take any means to try to get over all this in due time. I just hope he can bring himself NOT to see the exgirlfriend that he says he still has feelings for. Now that everything is on the table...all the details..all the raw hoensty, his exgirlfriend from 25 years ago is a real threat to us. He thinks maybe it's "meant to be" with her since she just happened to recently move back here which he didn't know until he reached out to her. What do you think?

[eeyore1981]

Ty BetrayedH for good advice...

To Nofool4u...My husband says he always trusted me but even before my affair he always knew where I was 24 hrs a day..he was always like that...checking up on me even if I came home from work a half hour late. Maybe he was always like because he had cheated. So my affair lasted 18 months which isn't that difficult since he was freinds with us..it was a lot of emailing and it wasn't the typical sex once a week for 18 months. We had sex 6 times late in the relationship and yes that is horrible and I take full responsibility for that. Also, I don't have a social life outside of our friends and my job. I don't go out with work friends unless it's an xmas party, retirement party..I don't go out with the "girls"...never did. We have 2 children and a hbouse and all so I'm busy with all that. And if my H and I can continue which i hope we can, I too have trust issues with him. We would have to be an open book with each other including technology..email accounts, FB, phones, etc. The world of technology made his affairs and my affair more accessible. I'm totally ok with us being open with that. After what we did to each other, we owe it to each other. Also, after all the damage we have done, I can't imagine either one of us doing this again. We are both good people who went to others instead of each other. We can grow and learn from it. But it is true I have to give him time. I don't expect him to "get over it." I can't just get over what he did, but I will take any means to try to get over all this in due time. I just hope he can bring himself NOT to see the exgirlfriend that he says he still has feelings for. Now that everything is on the table...all the details..all the raw hoensty, his exgirlfriend from 25 years ago is a real threat to us. He thinks maybe it's "meant to be" with her since she just happened to recently move back here which he didn't know until he reached out to her. What do you think?

 

BBM#1

BBM#2

BBM#3

 

Please read #1, then #2 and #3 together. As many times as it takes for you to get what you yourself wrote.

[BetrayedH]

Ty BetrayedH for good advice...

To Nofool4u...My husband says he always trusted me but even before my affair he always knew where I was 24 hrs a day..he was always like that...checking up on me even if I came home from work a half hour late. Maybe he was always like because he had cheated. So my affair lasted 18 months which isn't that difficult since he was freinds with us..it was a lot of emailing and it wasn't the typical sex once a week for 18 months. We had sex 6 times late in the relationship and yes that is horrible and I take full responsibility for that. Also, I don't have a social life outside of our friends and my job. I don't go out with work friends unless it's an xmas party, retirement party..I don't go out with the "girls"...never did. We have 2 children and a hbouse and all so I'm busy with all that. And if my H and I can continue which i hope we can, I too have trust issues with him. We would have to be an open book with each other including technology..email accounts, FB, phones, etc. The world of technology made his affairs and my affair more accessible. I'm totally ok with us being open with that. After what we did to each other, we owe it to each other. Also, after all the damage we have done, I can't imagine either one of us doing this again. We are both good people who went to others instead of each other. We can grow and learn from it. But it is true I have to give him time. I don't expect him to "get over it." I can't just get over what he did, but I will take any means to try to get over all this in due time. I just hope he can bring himself NOT to see the exgirlfriend that he says he still has feelings for. Now that everything is on the table...all the details..all the raw hoensty, his exgirlfriend from 25 years ago is a real threat to us. He thinks maybe it's "meant to be" with her since she just happened to recently move back here which he didn't know until he reached out to her. What do you think?

 

Regardless of the guilt you carry over your affair, I think you have to put your damn foot down that it is either her or you. If he pursues her, you are gone. It is impossible to work on your marriage and explore another relationship at the same time. You have to make it clear that you are NOT willing to accept this. I am becoming convinced that about the only way to wake up a wayward spouse is to show them in a very hard fashion exactly what they are risking/losing and that it's real and right now. You force a decision. Divorce papers landing in his lap may be that wake-up call. One thing is for certain, he will then choose one or the other. You cannot reconcile from one side. It had to come from both sides. If he will not choose, it is very unhealthy for you to remain committed. You will simply be a doormat that he will walk on because he has no motivation for change.

 

Some would say that it's not remotely your job to "force" him in any way since you are not his mommy. If he chooses someone else, see ya. I hope you will not put up with this. I think an ultimatum about her is absolutely in order. No contact with her or get your pen ready.

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh jeez.

 

The "your affair was worse" scenario.

 

It DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE TO TREAT IT THAT WAY.

 

If you run a business and you go bankrupt on a debt of $100. You are bankrupt.

 

If you run a business and you go bankrupt on a debt of $1,000,000. You are bankrupt.

 

See the difference? NO. The results are still the same.

 

You both bankrupted a marriage. Only one of you is willing to work off the debt though.

 

Hello? That's a HUGE PROBLEM. PLUS he's bankrupted the marriage HOW MANY TIMES?

 

Both of you have huge attachment issues. I hope you spend at least a year in independent counselling sorting this mess out.

[lucy Reynolds]

Eeyore...I get what you are saying, but I have hurt him so deeply that he needs to feel like a man again...I took that away from him especially since it was his bestfriend. He thinks he's my 2nd choice even though he isn't. I don't know if i said this in the original post, but the OM got a tattoo symbolizing his love for me very early in the relationship. Just recently about 2 /3 months ago I told my H that I wanted a tattoo...like a heart on the lower abdomen. The tattoo was suppossed to symbolize my love for the OM. Thank God I didn't do it...also in the original post I quoted an email that I never sent to the OM but it was in my drafts. Very hurtful words. Additionally, on our D-Day we had sex and some time later that day I emailed OM saying that I hope we can meet up again like we did 3 weeks ago. My husband read that. My H doesn't believe that a person can have an "aha" moment when faced with their life on the line. I tried to explain it to my husband that it's easy to say I love you to another person when you know your spouse is secure and isn't aware of the affair. But sometimes when an affair is exposed, it's a wake up call. My husband doesn't understand how my feelings for the OM have disappeared. I've tried to explain that the feelings are gone in that they never were really real. I've tried to tell him that the OM was just an escape from my own issues with myself and my marriage. I truly don't have any feelings for the OM. So what do you think now?

[eeyore1981]

Eeyore...I get what you are saying, but I have hurt him so deeply that he needs to feel like a man again...I took that away from him especially since it was his bestfriend. He thinks he's my 2nd choice even though he isn't. I don't know if i said this in the original post, but the OM got a tattoo symbolizing his love for me very early in the relationship. Just recently about 2 /3 months ago I told my H that I wanted a tattoo...like a heart on the lower abdomen. The tattoo was suppossed to symbolize my love for the OM. Thank God I didn't do it...also in the original post I quoted an email that I never sent to the OM but it was in my drafts. Very hurtful words. Additionally, on our D-Day we had sex and some time later that day I emailed OM saying that I hope we can meet up again like we did 3 weeks ago. My husband read that. My H doesn't believe that a person can have an "aha" moment when faced with their life on the line. I tried to explain it to my husband that it's easy to say I love you to another person when you know your spouse is secure and isn't aware of the affair. But sometimes when an affair is exposed, it's a wake up call. My husband doesn't understand how my feelings for the OM have disappeared. I've tried to explain that the feelings are gone in that they never were really real. I've tried to tell him that the OM was just an escape from my own issues with myself and my marriage. I truly don't have any feelings for the OM. So what do you think now?

 

I think exactly what I have thought from the beginning of this thread.

 

He needs to feel like a man again? How many women will he have to have sex with while married to you to have that feeling again? Let's not forget, he's already had six, and that was before he caught you cheating. What were those women he was having sex with for?

 

Look, Lucy, this is your life and your marriage. If you want to stretch yourself out on a cross and be crucified by a man who has done just as much damage to your marriage as you have, then by all means, don't let me stand in your way. I just do not believe for a flat second this is the way to get back to a good and meaningful marriage, but hey, different strokes for different folks.

 

Let me ask you this, though. While he's exploring his feelings for his long lost love, is he okay with you going out and having meaningless sex with multitudes of men? He should be, because apparently that's okay, as long as there aren't 'feelings' involved. If not, then will you at least be able to see what a hypocrite this guy is? I mean, he is currently, right now, in present time, doing EXACTLY what he is bashing you for doing.

 

Here's my advice to you, leave, stay, do whatever you want, but at least have the decency to yourself to open your eyes and see things as they are. If this marriage has a chance in hell, it's going to take both parties actively working on the marriage, not one being a submissive doormat for the other to wipe their feet on.

[eeyore1981]

So, lucy, let me see if I understand--

 

1) You're upset with your husband because he's a serial cheater;

 

so you decide to hook up with

 

2) an OM who is an even worse serial cheater?

 

Forget about the fact that the OM was your husband's best friend, the OM sounds like he was just playing both you and your husband.

 

Do you realize the OM targeted you especially because he's getting an extra thrill by screwing his best friend's wife behind his back?

 

Of course that's why you picked the OM too I'm sure.

 

I think you two should just accept the fact that you are in an "open" marriage and go forward on that basis.

 

No, Abe, apparently you do not understand. As is clearly stated in the OP, and has been brought up a few times since, Lucy was unaware her H had cheated at all until she herself was caught by H cheating on him. She was unaware her H was a serial cheater, and she was unaware the OM was a worse serial cheater, and she was unaware the two of them were hooking up with women together, apparently having sex with women not their wives together in the same room.

 

So it seems little to none of your response applies here.

[syz]

I think exactly what I have thought from the beginning of this thread.

 

He needs to feel like a man again? How many women will he have to have sex with while married to you to have that feeling again? Let's not forget, he's already had six, and that was before he caught you cheating. What were those women he was having sex with for?

 

Look, Lucy, this is your life and your marriage. If you want to stretch yourself out on a cross and be crucified by a man who has done just as much damage to your marriage as you have, then by all means, don't let me stand in your way. I just do not believe for a flat second this is the way to get back to a good and meaningful marriage, but hey, different strokes for different folks.

 

Let me ask you this, though. While he's exploring his feelings for his long lost love, is he okay with you going out and having meaningless sex with multitudes of men? He should be, because apparently that's okay, as long as there aren't 'feelings' involved. If not, then will you at least be able to see what a hypocrite this guy is? I mean, he is currently, right now, in present time, doing EXACTLY what he is bashing you for doing.

 

Here's my advice to you, leave, stay, do whatever you want, but at least have the decency to yourself to open your eyes and see things as they are. If this marriage has a chance in hell, it's going to take both parties actively working on the marriage, not one being a submissive doormat for the other to wipe their feet on.

 

 

Bingo. And your affair isn't worse.. its only worse to him because it.. well.. happened to HIM. Being a MadHatter (both cheated) doesn't make things even it makes it even messier.. you both have to deal now with the pain AND your flawed characters. And it just makes it harder to process the different pieces.. ultimately cheating (as bad as it feels to be betrayed) is a violation of your own integrity and promises you made during your wedding to hold yourself to a certain standard.

 

You don't have to stand around while he recoups his manhood by sticking his **** into other women. In fact that is a pathetic and stupid thing for him to even say. You can have cheated and have to face that while still asking for healthy boundaries to be adhered to.

[lucy Reynolds]

Thanks again to all...it does help to hear what other people who don't know us think...objective opinions that is. We are in counseling but he doesn't see a positive end for us, yet we talk a lot and he wants to stay in counseling. He is sorry he ever contacted the exgirlfriend and opened that can of worms but he did. He said he needs to pursue that...he doesn't want to be alone...nobody does, but he is afraid that in a year I will leave him and go to the OM. He said he needs to see if he can love someone else...and he said he wants me to see that I might lose him. Also, he said I can do whatever I want even though we are married. I WILL NOT BE DOING ANYTHING OF THE SORT. I HAVE BEEN VERY SELFISH WITH MY AFFAIR, AND I HAVE LEARNED FROM MY ACTIONS. I told him that I have no intentions of dating anyone, and that I need to concentrate on me, our marriage, children, house, job, etc. Before this affair as big as it was, I was the good wife, mommy, etc. NEVER did anything wrong so it is hard for me to accept that I even did this. Anyway, I have NO desire to meet anyone new. I only want to work things out with my H, but he needs time because he doesn't believe a word I say so I'm going to give him the time that he needs. I know that sounds crazy...I don't want him with the other woman, but if that is what he needs to do to bring him back to me then it might just be worth it.

[lucy Reynolds]

Bentnotbroken..This is messed up, and to think my life was normal 18 months ago. My life was really normal. Married for over 15 years to a great man with beautiful children, careers for each of us, and a great house. Both his family and my family good friends. My H and I have been together for 21 years...we are good people who made some bad mistakes that just recently came to the surface. Hopefully, we will stay together and come out stronger and really be that couple that we and everyone else thought we were. I love my husband more today than ever because he's still listening at our very worst time ever as a couple..that says something about him. I'm not giving up on him..on us...or our family. We are not perfect..we made mistakes...I just pray to God we can get through them.

[GLDheart]

So if you still love him, let him sew his wild oats. Just be patient with what he is going through. When he gets it out of his system, I'm sure he'll come back to you.

 

Hmmm............

 

Bent, Abe is like the Bizarro Yoda of LoveShack... His statements are actually wise once you realize he simply says everything backwards and opposite of his true message.

[whatamess11]

Hello, W (Lucy R) told me she posted here and I have listened to the abuse that I have been receiving. I must say that the events ported have been skewed somewhat by by W, that said, I have listened to all the responses and hope you all can have somewhat of an open mind. Before I go into the events that led up to me finding out that my wife had an 18 month love affair with my best friend, i will tell a little about me. I love my wife, always have, and always will.

 

Whatever issues i had, i realize were with me. The only real problemm me and the W had was a lack of communication. Other than that, we truly had a great marriage, as hard as it is for all of you to see. If you choose to call me a serial cheater, and all the other choice words, I get it. I don't see it that way, but I get it. Based on what the W wrote about, I can see why you would say that. My cheating was as such: after about 4 yrs in marriage I met someone and we had a brief affair. I felt such guilt and disgrace through this. I was raised Catholic, very involved in the church and cannot begin to describe how i felt about this affair. Why did I cheat? no reason is good, but it had to do with my faults, my own lack of self confidence.

 

I always felt that while my W loved me, she never really was in love with me. she didn't want me. Wasn't passionate for me. I felt ugly, thought my body wasn't enough, maybe i was a poor lover, etc, etc...these were my issues, and i know that now. Anyway, I ended the affair, and despite what W wrote, there were no emotions, it was a sexual relationship. Please understand that men and women view this differently. women tend to think there is no difference between a f@$k and a long term LOVE affair....men tend to see it differently. I would much prefer that my wife had several meaningless sexual encounters to 1 long term love affair.

 

Anyway, this affair ended after a short time and my wife and i had our kids, and were a happy couple raising the kids....after many years, i once again started to feel those same insecurities and rather then talk to my W about it, as i should have...i sought another woman. Around this time, i met my soon to be best friend, the one who winds up being the OM for my W. We became a##hole buddies. A friendship that was wrong on so many levels. I knew of his affairs....many. the neighbor across the street, his W's cousin, the real estate agent, the woman from Karate who was friends with his W...all of them. usually there were several who he was seeing at the same time.

 

Now, instead of running from this man, which i should have...we began to hang out and do things that i am totally ashamed of. Many times i would talk to him and would say, " i love my wife, this isn't for me. Why am i doing this, i am depressed, i dont want this, i am an a#$^ole." he would say in reply, "thats the difference between you and I, i know who i am and i am okay with it". anyway, after some time, i went to see a priest for guidance. In our meeting, he said to me, you cannot ask for forgiveness for something if you continue to do it. I said, yes, and i have no desire to do it. additionally, he said that to tell my W of my affairs would do nothing but hurt her deeply and only would benefit me by relieving me of my guilt. He said, why would u want to crush this woman, just treat her right, u live with the guilt of what you have done. and i did.

 

 

Fastforward to my wires affair. sometime during 2011 i began to notice there were issues at home, emotional, not sexual. I would ask her, whats wrong, lets talk, etc...she never said a word. after many months around January 2012, she said there were problems, she "wasn't as happy as she should be"...and sought to go to a counselor. I reached out to my best friend, the OM for advice and for help picking a counselor....Yes, thats right, the OM was the one who referred my W and I to our counselor. in counseling, i would say, " somethings not right. i am not sure if she is having an affair, but i truly feel she has an emotional attachment to someone" she said, " I'm untrusting, and this is a huge problem, etc" never addressing our issue, her affair. Counselling clearly didn't work as she wasn't honest. then D Day hit, and i found out everything. What did i find out? that for 18 months my best friend wooed my W and had a long term love affair with her. i found emails which told of her love for him. emails which said" i don't want to be with my H sexually, especially kissing, how do you do it when your W wants sex from you?" she said to him, you are the man of my dreams, the love of my life, i cannot live without you. she had this man and his family come on our family vacation last year, where they had there discreet meetings while both me and my children and the OM's wife and her children were present. the W and I were training for a marathon, we ran together all the time, we bonded, it was special to us...im sorry, special to me that we did this together....Well, she had sex with him for the 1st time right b4 the race, another memory shattered. they had intimate moments in our home while his son, who is best friends with my son, were in the other room.

 

She picked out his tattoo which represents something to him, and there is a piece missing in the tattoo, this is to signify her, as she is missing in his life. She, someone who never ever wanted a tattoo, came to me saying she really wanted a heart tattoo in her bikini area. She had me looking for her tattoo which was to signify her love for him. she took me to counseling in Jan, and f##$%d him in Feb and again in June while we were in counseling. Once D Day came and she was found out. She was caught, she didn't give up this relationship....it would be ongoing at this very moment if i didn't catch her. She was ready to divorce me, ready to leave me, she would sleep next to me and know that she didn't want me but wanted another man.

 

I never felt that way, despite my indiscretions, i know where i wanted to be each and every night, with the W i married, the woman i loved. there were many lies, many more intimate moments that i don't mention here. to say it was devastating is an understatement. After she was found out, i spoke with her best friend, who said to me, " she never should have married you. there were so many times during your marriage that she questioned whether she ever loved you". I asked my W after she was caught...where do you see us in 10 yrs, her reply, I don't know. Theres a vote of confidence, but she loves me now...this man, the OM, who has bedded half our town apparently, had been tested for a sexually transmitted disease, and i knew he had something, and was afraid about his W, etc....Well, i asked my W if they used something (protection), never.....not once.

 

 

The times i fooled around, i always had protection,, as f45ked up as it may sound, i knew what i was doing, but god forbid i brought something home to my beautiful wife, i could never live with myself. i worried about my well being, but was more concerned about her catching something because of my completely selfish act. Her??? when i asked her how she could do that without using protection, her reply? " i wasn't even thinking about myself, why would i think about you?" in other words....i worry about me 1st, you are an afterthought. Oh, sooo much more to talk about, but this is already a novel.. Lets say, we await her medical results come Wed. I came clean about my affairs for many reasons, one was to tell her about the man of her dreams, how while he was professing his love for her, he was out sleeping with other women, and i knew. another was to tell her, i know what happens in these relationships, as i was there too....and maybe, the fact that i had my indiscretions, makes it earlier for me to understand her mine frame.

 

 

But tell me how is it that you go from being madly in love with your soul mate, to not wanting anything to do with him??? in an instant? remember, she wasn't giving this up, she was caught, her last text she sent said, hey lets do what we did 3 weeks ago real soon...What they did 3 weeks ago was spend the day together in a hotel room. Not someone who wanted out. she lied through counseling. Wanted to mark her body permanently, and now this guy means nothing, all of a sudden???? there are sooo many issues for us to overcome. this man is walking around thinking the only reason he isn't with my W is because of family commitments, and u know what...maybe he's right. do i want to be 2nd choice and stay with a W that doesn't want me there? clearly there are issues there. As for my ex girlfriend from 25 yrs ago.....That came out of the blue. i had contacted her seeking to talk about issues i had dating back 25 yrs ago. there was no interest in her in any other way. I believed she was living in another state 2000 miles away.

 

As fate would have it she recently moved back home to our area and we met up, not to hook up, we met up to talk about my issues. after time, i can see that at some point there could be something between us, not now, but in the future. what does my future hold. i am very afraid. i don't want to be looking for love at 50, i truly love my wife, despite my faults, i wish i could go back and change what has happened, but i can't, nor can she. i cannot get over the emotional, loving bond between my W and my best friend. it is brutal. i don't sleep, don't eat, my life is a disaster. sure, I'm sure those out here that have been cheated on will say, well thats karma...and that may be so, but we aren't out here to hear that, we seek advice, helpful advice from people who have had this experience, in a way to help us heal. there is a very big part of me that feels my W and this OM need to be together, for real, not in fantasy affair land. see if there really is a connection, and once she sees there isn't one, then she can truly come to me and we can try to get together, until that time, i will always be 2nd choice. nobody, even me, deserves that. there is zoo much more, but i need to stop typing.

Edited July 31, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Spark1111]

What a mess, welcome to LS.

 

My H also had a long term emotional affair with a co-worker and I threw him out. It took a while, like detoxing from a drug, for all contact to end between them. I know how confusing that can be for the betrayed spouse.

 

Today he loathes what he did. It takes time. For it to have been your friend, is doubly hurtful and will take more time.

 

But that does not exonerate you from all your sextracurricular activities during the marriage. You certainly were no choir boy, and the priest's admonishing you to not tell your wife was poor, poor advice. You may have spared her pain, but you robbed her of knowing her partner fully.

 

Did you ever communicate to her how unwanted you felt? Did she ever communicate to you how lonely she was? Probably not.

 

And if you can contact your exGF from long ago, then it would be okay for your wife to do so? Don't think so. You people need boundaries around your marriage. You need to STOP turning to people outside you marriage for solace, comfort and attention.

 

I am happy you are both in therapy. The hardest part that I forsee for the both of you is that you are scorekeepers: Tit for tat, what he/she did was worse than what I did.

 

Relationships do not work that way. We are ALL responsible for the health and well-being of ourselves and our relationships. In MC, we learned that it is not what you are getting, but that you (and your spouse) may be GIVING too little to each other.

 

I know this OM, the one you ran wild with, became a friend. WHY?

 

I know you are devastated that she fell for him, but if you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas. You know this, yes? Only this was one mangy dog who came back to bite you in the azz.

 

A philanderer wants to conquest what he shouldn't have. This was your friend?

 

Sorry, you should not be so surprised. Hurt? Definitely. Surprised? No.