2sunny Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Agreed. After extended gaslighting, a person is doubting their own perceptions, and judgments (which is a horrible place to be psychologically---been there, done that) Proof IS important to someone who's been through extended gaslighting. It can help to restore his/her faith in his/her own perceptions. In an odd way, it can help the BS to heal. Knowing for sure what happened, is far better than being in the dark. When a person is being honest - they don't gaslight. So just having the gas lighting in the mix tells you he's not being honest.
freestyle Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 When a person is being honest - they don't gaslight. So just having the gas lighting in the mix tells you he's not being honest. But sometimes the person who's actually being gas lighted doesn't KNOW they're being gas lighted, until they have proof. So they don't KNOW that they're dealing with dishonesty. In my story---I had trust issues about being cheated on before I entered my R with my SO. (because I'd been cheated on before) I was honest with him about this from the beginning of our R, and I told him that if he ever wished to look elsewhere, to simply let me know, and I'd step aside graciously.No harm, no foul. I made it clear that I couldn't go through infidelity again. So, when my SO began an EA with one of his long-standing female friends, I spent a LOT of time second-guessing myself, before I confronted him. I thought there was a chance it was my baggage--but he WAS displaying all the red flag behaviors, of someone trying to hide something. When I met her for the first time, and she was hostile to me as soon as he was out of earshot, my radar started flashing. He became more & more distant, & less available. He stopped talking about her, even though he was spending more & more time with her. After a few months of wondering, & examining my own reactions/perceptions, I finally asked him if there was any reason for me to be concerned about their "friendship". He insisted it was "all in my mind" ,that I was, "making a mountain out of a molehill", "imagining things" etc. And I believed him for a long time. I thought it was possible that I was "imagining things.." I beat myself up for not being trusting him enough, and actually apologized for questioning his loyalty to me. Until I saw hardcore proof. That proof, in an odd way, helped to restore my self-esteem. I WASN'T crazy. I WASN'T imagining things. I WASN'T *overreacting*. At the time this happened, I'd never even heard of gaslighting, and I knew very little about the psychology of infidelity. I expect the same is true for a lot of BS's who get blindsided---they would never even venture to guess that their spouse/partner would be deliberately manipulating them. 5
2sunny Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Let's look specifically at THIS situation (not necessarily YOUR assigned meaning). Looking at any situation - its most useful to assess a persons actions (not their words). Actions tell everything a person will never tell. It wouldn't matter IF her H IS gas lighting or not - mainly because he is exhibiting suspicious behavior - by NOT telling the OP where he is and lies about when he may come home - them stays out all night long - and doesn't even act like its anything out of the ordinary - and then mentions. Eing with random friends - without ever trying to include his wife with his "activities throughout the night (but CAUSES MORE SUSPICION by having his phone OFF and avoiding CONTACT with his WIFE)... There nothing gas lighting about THAT - it's very simply a husband who's NOT acting like a husband! It's a guy acting like a $hitty husband = ONE WHO'S CHEATING! Take all words away = this husband's actions show evidence that he's cheating! His wife isn't HIS first priority - someone or something outside the home keeps him away for a bigger reason than staying in with his wife = that's ALL I would need to understand! I'd want a husband that REALLY WANTS TO BE WITH ME AS MUCH AS HE POSSIBLY CAN!!!
dreamingoftigers Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Jeez, some people need far more than circumstantials. For all you know your husband could have been sucked into a secret government mission where if he told you the details, they'd kill you both. Some of us need the proof like emails and phone etc.
2sunny Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Jeez, some people need far more than circumstantials. For all you know your husband could have been sucked into a secret government mission where if he told you the details, they'd kill you both. Some of us need the proof like emails and phone etc. Yep - you're right - many people NEED a MOUNTAIN of evidence to admit it to themselves that an affair is REAL! But from my own experience - MY GUT has never lead me in the wrong direction... My gut KNEW my truth of the situation way before I ever realized what was really happening.
freestyle Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Let's look specifically at THIS situation (not necessarily YOUR assigned meaning). Looking at any situation - its most useful to assess a persons actions (not their words). Actions tell everything a person will never tell. It wouldn't matter IF her H IS gas lighting or not - mainly because he is exhibiting suspicious behavior - by NOT telling the OP where he is and lies about when he may come home - them stays out all night long - and doesn't even act like its anything out of the ordinary - and then mentions. Eing with random friends - without ever trying to include his wife with his "activities throughout the night (but CAUSES MORE SUSPICION by having his phone OFF and avoiding CONTACT with his WIFE)... There nothing gas lighting about THAT - it's very simply a husband who's NOT acting like a husband! It's a guy acting like a $hitty husband = ONE WHO'S CHEATING! Take all words away = this husband's actions show evidence that he's cheating! His wife isn't HIS first priority - someone or something outside the home keeps him away for a bigger reason than staying in with his wife = that's ALL I would need to understand! I'd want a husband that REALLY WANTS TO BE WITH ME AS MUCH AS HE POSSIBLY CAN!!! Actually, I agree with you regarding words/actions. I just think it's easier to have that perspective from the outside, looking in. My previous post was defending/explaining WHY proof can matter to a BS. Ideally---we should be able to trust a spouse/partner enough to take them at their word. (and shouldn't have to be skeptical about their words and actions matching in the first place) So, a trusting spouse/partner can easily be in a state of denial, or making excuses for a partner who starts behaving out of character. They make think their partner is just stressed out from work, or family issues---they may even jump through bigger and bigger hoops, out of compassion for the WS (not realizing that he/she is wayward) People often refer to the WS being in an affair fog, I believe the same thing can happen to a BS. The only suspicion of cheating may be a niggling little doubt on the periphery of their awareness. As the erratic behavior increases, the voice of that doubt may get louder slowly---but the last thing a BS wants to believe is that they're being betrayed. So, that hard evidence/proof can be the catalyst to help blow all of that fog from the BS's mind. Some BS's need to know for sure, before they know what step to take next. I saw a great quote in an article I read about infidelity.......... "It's easy to plant a bomb in a peaceful, trusting place."
GLDheart Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 ...it's very simply a husband who's NOT acting like a husband! It's a guy acting like a $hitty husband... THAT. That right there is MORE than enough of a boundary in normal healthy relationships. I also agree that the husband is most likely cheating on top of it all. But since there is no evidence on that yet, it is just an assumption. A very probable "icing on the cake" assumption.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 5, 2012 Posted August 5, 2012 Most of us are completely blindsided by an affair and it's about the last thing we'll believe is happening. We'll hold out hope that it's anything else. Because affairs crack the foundations in most of our worlds. I think my h's infidelities woke me up to a great deal more of human nature. 2
losingtheplot Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 I don't think there is anything wrong with needing as much proof as possible. It's perfectly natural to be stuck with this feeling of 'surely he wouldn't do that to me'. I'm going through a similar thing at the moment and, although there are warning signs (not being where she says she is, possessive over her phone, etc.), I feel that I need hard evidence before I can accuse her. I made that mistake before and she turned it around into my violation of her privacy by snooping, which has now made it even harder to prove, because she has started deleting her texts. I'm currently trying to install an SMS tracker on her phone, but difficult as she never leaves it long enough for me to do so. If your partner has an iPhone, you could try using the find my iPhone app to track his movements (that's how I discovered she was lying about where she had been), although not sure I other phones have similar functionality. I feel your pain and hope that you get through it okay, whatever the outcome. 1
StarChick Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 Yes, losing, there is nothing wrong with gathering proof. It can be very practical to do so. Not only does it make any potential gaslighting difficult, but if one lives in a fault state (if he or she chooses to pursue divorce and use the fault status) the proof can be turned over, as well. It sounds like you're doing pretty great, under the circumstances.The snooping accusation is crap, as far as I can see. If she is stepping out on you and possibly endangering your health, she is in no position to cry fowl or make demands. You gotta do what you need to in order to protect yourself. OP: I'm so very sorry you are going through this hell. You sound like you have a great head on your shoulders. It is definitely his loss. Keep gathering evidence if it helps you get your ducks in a row, but keep a copy of it in a safe place in case you can/want to use it to help you someday. Whatta jerk. Again, I'm sorry. Take care. PS: Sorry if this has been addressed. I admit I skimmed some posts. 1
Author UCTD Posted August 9, 2012 Author Posted August 9, 2012 I've been staying as busy as i can b/c quite honestly, i was beginning to think i was going to lose my mind. All i could think about was "where is he, what's he doing, is he, isn't he".... So i decided to get busy, stay busy, just kind of "ignore" his comings and goings and see what happened.... btw, why do i need/want proof? b/c my first husband accused me more than once of having an affair, AND I NEVER HAD ONE. And the constant UNFOUNDED suspicion and accusations caused irreparable damage. I don't want to accuse him unjustly. 2
turnera Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 People who constantly accuse their spouse are usually either abusive, severely insecure, or cheating themselves. What your first husband did has nothing to do with this marriage.
2sunny Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 I've been staying as busy as i can b/c quite honestly, i was beginning to think i was going to lose my mind. All i could think about was "where is he, what's he doing, is he, isn't he".... So i decided to get busy, stay busy, just kind of "ignore" his comings and goings and see what happened.... btw, why do i need/want proof? b/c my first husband accused me more than once of having an affair, AND I NEVER HAD ONE. And the constant UNFOUNDED suspicion and accusations caused irreparable damage. I don't want to accuse him unjustly. Since he's acting odd and uncaring about YOUR feelings - is there any reason to stay?
Author UCTD Posted August 10, 2012 Author Posted August 10, 2012 People who constantly accuse their spouse are usually either abusive, severely insecure, or cheating themselves. What your first husband did has nothing to do with this marriage. He was abusive. And how he treated me has a lot to do with this marriage.... it's baggage i'm still trying to shed. Not much, but a piece or two, and the unjustified accusations were probably the most hurtful. Since he's acting odd and uncaring about YOUR feelings - is there any reason to stay? Actually, he's been home a lot more, no disappearing for hours, stays in touch when he's out... his demeanor is changing, too. He's paying more attention to me, being more affectionate. i'm still here b/c he hasn't always been this way, and i am still hopeful that whatever this is/was will be an isolated incident. yes, i'm just that naive. i love him, and if we can fix it, that's what i want to do. go ahead, bash away
2sunny Posted August 10, 2012 Posted August 10, 2012 He was abusive. And how he treated me has a lot to do with this marriage.... it's baggage i'm still trying to shed. Not much, but a piece or two, and the unjustified accusations were probably the most hurtful. Actually, he's been home a lot more, no disappearing for hours, stays in touch when he's out... his demeanor is changing, too. He's paying more attention to me, being more affectionate. i'm still here b/c he hasn't always been this way, and i am still hopeful that whatever this is/was will be an isolated incident. yes, i'm just that naive. i love him, and if we can fix it, that's what i want to do. go ahead, bash away Have you gotten the reason he was acting so odd? Why aren't you asking HIM for answers?
Recommended Posts