"There isn't going to be a next time, sorry"

July 29, 2012

She wasn't "freaky and crazy" and it's nOt because "you are a guy."

It's just she put the signals out there despite the odd communication pattern and she thinks you dropped the ball. Then you pop back up again.

It just looks like too much putting herself out there and too much work for a casual sex thing.

July 29, 2012

She certainly put signals out alright. On her profile she said that she was looking for " fun ". Then she gave the impression that she wanted more. Then she said that it was ok that I wanted sex and seemed ok with it. Then she got upset while chatting (before we met) because she said that she really likes me and hinted that she wanted more. Then she started sending me sexually suggestive texts. At one point I explained the situation thoroughly, saying that I don't mind what happens and I'm open to whatever but let's not define anything yet, and she agreed. Then when we met she gradually became very flirty. Then she ended it. There was a lot of inconsistency. The only reason I'm not particularly inclined to think that she simply loves winding people up is the fact that she seems like a very nice person.

I on the other hand made my position clear, which was that yes I want sex but I'd like to get to know her aswell and see how it goes, but without deciding on anything. In other words, let's have, to quote her own words, " fun ". And during our meeting I behaved according to that, ie I flirted but I also chatted a lot and asked her a lot of things about herself and told her about myself.

I think she's mixed up and confused. Nice girl though.

July 29, 2012

I think that being upfront about his desire for sex, Stiles was being noble. I don't see a contradiction there. He was being honest about his intentions = noble.

I think she's mixed up and confused. Nice girl though.

JS, glad you seem to have come to terms with whatever happened.

July 29, 2012

I think that being upfront about his desire for sex, Stiles was being noble. I don't see a contradiction there. He was being honest about his intentions = noble.

JS, glad you seem to have come to terms with whatever happened.

Thanks. There seems to be a massive bias going on here. The default position seems to be that it has to be the guy who did something wrong. It's not always that way. Wanting to enjoy the company of nice girls and have sex with them until I figure out whether or not they're suitable is a noble pursuit. And dating a few girls is fine aswell. There's no point in falling for any old girl just for the sake of it, and there's no point in not creating attraction, which I did.

I was honest, consistent, and I was extremely nice to her when we met. I spent days tidying up my flat (trust me, it was necessary) to make it nice. I even spent ages picking out music to play, based on what I thought she might like. I bought 2 throws for my sofas and some cushions. I cleaned parts of my flat that haven't been cleaned in years. I was going to cook some things for her to eat for when she came round the 2nd time, and I was going to make her a sandwich to take with her on the way home. I did a lot of preparation and I made a huge effort. I even went as far as literally writing down what I should and shouldn't do in order to make her feel good around me, while teasing her and being playfully cocky (not to be confused with being a p r i c k), which I do anyway but I wanted to solidify those ideas in my mind in order not to forget to do them. She doesn't know any of this but it had to be done. But my flat wasn't ready and there was no way I was going to get carried away and just let her come over. The bus stop that we went to was literally seconds from my front door, but I had the self control to just let her go and hopefully see her again. Even when I kissed her I didn't get carried away and I gave her space. Jeez, I even walked on the outside of the pavement, and I would have opened doors for her if only all the pub doors weren't already open.

I'm not a nasty player, I just like women's company and I wanted to make the best of it. No pressure, and lots of honesty. And I don't think she did anything wrong either. I think she got carried away and excited and when she finally realised that nope, I wasn't going to take her home, she asked herself why. Maybe it's a self esteem thing for her, maybe she really liked me a lot and wasn't used to a guy not needily taking her home.

Edited July 29, 2012 by John Stiles

July 29, 2012

I don't think there was anything majorly wrong with how you behaved but I do think you're misusing the word 'noble'.

July 29, 2012

I don't think there was anything majorly wrong with how you behaved but I do think you're misusing the word 'noble'.

Ok but let's not nitpick.

What I really want to focus on is psychology. What could lead a girl to have such a sudden change of mind despite having so obviously enjoyed literally every minute of it? The issue about my comments on her pictures was resolved even before we met so I don't think that has snything to do with it. If it were a problem she probably wouldn't have met me at all.

July 29, 2012

It sounds like you're making things more complicated than they need to be.

Decide what you want - just sex, or dating with the goal of meeting a real match for a relationship. Then go for that. You can get either, but you'll bring out different parts of yourself depending on what you want.

If you just want sex, be respectful but up front about what you're looking for. When I got back into dating earlier this year, I went out with a guy for a while who clearly had nothing more to offer than sex and fun. We had sex, we had fun, and it was great. We both knew it would be temporary, and it was.

If you want to date with the goal of meeting a match for a relationship, then go for that, and be consistent in your communication about it - online and off. Don't talk about sex before you've even met or imply it's what you're after. Go on some dates and see if there's potential.

I think if you get clear about what you want, and then are consistent with yourself and women about that, you'll get it - much more efficiently and pleasantly.

July 29, 2012

It sounds like you're making things more complicated than they need to be.

Decide what you want - just sex, or dating with the goal of meeting a real match for a relationship. Then go for that. You can get either, but you'll bring out different parts of yourself depending on what you want.

If you just want sex, be respectful but up front about what you're looking for. When I got back into dating earlier this year, I went out with a guy for a while who clearly had nothing more to offer than sex and fun. We had sex, we had fun, and it was great. We both knew it would be temporary, and it was.

If you want to date with the goal of meeting a match for a relationship, then go for that, and be consistent in your communication about it - online and off. Don't talk about sex before you've even met or imply it's what you're after. Go on some dates and see if there's potential.

I think if you get clear about what you want, and then are consistent with yourself and women about that, you'll get it - much more efficiently and pleasantly.

Thanks, and I appreciate that, but I did make it clear. I do know what I want. What I want is to not make any assumptions about compatibility etc and just have fun while figuring it out. If it works it works, and if not, maybe we can carry on having fun, or maybe not. Effectively that's what she seemed to want too, although she expressed it differently (ie not emphasising the sex). She's a girl, it's not considered right to be so explicit about it, but I can be, and I should be, because someone has to clarify what's going on. The problem is that she wasn't consistent, because of the inner conflict of wanting it while not being able to talk about it.

July 29, 2012

Well, I've already given you my opinion, and others have given theirs, but the bottom line is: you had one date with this girl - you will NEVER know. Check out the Break Up section. There are people on there who have been dumped after 20-year relationships and, after playing it out over 30-page threads, they're still left wondering 'why?'

You were only looking for a hook-up, why does this bother you so much? Accept that closure is an internal process and focus on the next lady.

July 29, 2012

Yeah it sounds a little like you were both trying to "people-please" without a sure solid goal. Kinda like a hot-cold game to see where the other is going. Then she got the "cold" vibe from you for the last time and probably talked to a friend about it who said "what's up with this guy?" and them she thought, "I don't know. I font even know what's up with me meeting a strange guy and trying to get him to take me back to his place when he didn't even want to."

Just a series of misfires on both parts.

I think it's cute that you were going to give her a sandwich to take home. Half the guys in casual encounters won't even give her an orgasm.

At least you flat got cleaned, sounds like it needed it

July 29, 2012

I just reread the OP and I don't see where it says that you two kissed. Did you two kiss?

If I get it correctly, the signals you think mean she was interested were: she smiled, she suggested you two go to another pub, she started making sexual comments after having a drink. That really isn't much to go on. What else was there? I still maintain the easiest explanation is that you read more into the signals during the date than was actually there.

It happens to all of us. To put it simply: she's just not that into you.

(And to the person who asked, here is a link to a Psychology Today article on the topic). Other studies have been done that suggest the same findings.

July 29, 2012

Well, I've already given you my opinion, and others have given theirs, but the bottom line is: you had one date with this girl - you will NEVER know. Check out the Break Up section. There are people on there who have been dumped after 20-year relationships and, after playing it out over 30-page threads, they're still left wondering 'why?'

You were only looking for a hook-up, why does this bother you so much? Accept that closure is an internal process and focus on the next lady.

It bothers me because it is a question that I don't know the answer to. I like to learn from experiences. I like to know why things happen. She's a nice enough girl but I'm not sad about it, just curious.

July 29, 2012

Here's a link to another study, again in psych today: The Beauty Factor | Psychology Today

July 29, 2012

I just reread the OP and I don't see where it says that you two kissed. Did you two kiss?

If I get it correctly, the signals you think mean she was interested were: she smiled, she suggested you two go to another pub, she started making sexual comments after having a drink. That really isn't much to go on. What else was there? I still maintain the easiest explanation is that you read more into the signals during the date than was actually there.

It happens to all of us. To put it simply: she's just not that into you.

(And to the person who asked, here is a link to a Psychology Today article on the topic). Other studies have been done that suggest the same findings.

From my OP : "From about halfway into the first pub until the very end we were kissing from time to time. Like I say it went well.".

Yes, we did. A lot.

With all due respect I've made it very clear in my OP that she had a brilliant time. She was smiling and laughing a hell of a lot. If you had been there you would have witnessed a very interested girl. Her body language, the way she looked at me, talked to me, responded to me, everything. Either she's the best actor in the world or she was into me. A lot.

Her text cannot be explained by the theory that she wasn't into me. If you had seen us you would have said get a room you two.

July 29, 2012

It bothers me because it is a question that I don't know the answer to. I like to learn from experiences. I like to know why things happen. She's a nice enough girl but I'm not sad about it, just curious.

Yes, I get that - we all feel like that after a rejection. Basically, our egos attempt to gain a little control over how we feel. But then we learn: some questions are unanswerable.

You'll probably get your 'Eureka!' moment at some point down the line. Could happen anywhere, and that will be sufficient explanation for you to be able to put this to bed. It might be as far from the truth as it's possible to be, but if it works for you, that's all that matters. All we can do is give you some food for thought whilst your brain is working overtime on this. That just helps you not to go down the rabbit hole, alone in your bed at night.

It was only one little date in your whole lifetime, so it's probably best to give it a rest for tonight, at least, eh Alice?

July 29, 2012

I think everything you did was fine, and that you sound like a nice enough guy.

If you want to see her again text or email her:

I'd like to see you again and not just for sex.

That's it, that all.

It promises nothing, presents no pressure or obligation and let's her know that you enjoyed yourself.

July 29, 2012

Yes, I get that - we all feel like that after a rejection. Basically, our egos attempt to gain a little control over how we feel. But then we learn: some questions are unanswerable.

You'll probably get your 'Eureka!' moment at some point down the line. Could happen anywhere, and that will be sufficient explanation for you to be able to put this to bed. It might be as far from the truth as it's possible to be, but if it works for you, that's all that matters. All we can do is give you some food for thought whilst your brain is working overtime on this. That just helps you not to go down the rabbit hole, alone in your bed at night.

It was only one little date in your whole lifetime, so it's probably best to give it a rest for tonight, at least, eh Alice?

Agreed. But hey, I'm a scorpio. I'm very intense. I like to dig and dig, but trust me, there will come a time (maybe in a week) when I'll let it go. I always do, I just take my time.

Anyway I've just decided that it's best not to contact her and ask her why she sent that text. And I came up with 2 very compelling reasons, reasons that whenever I think of them will make the idea unappealing.

1) If she changes her mind, I don't want there to be any baggage about this. I want to keep it light, as it has been so far. I don't want to create the vibe that we have history / drama.

2) She obviously gave it plenty of thought (seeing as she sent it the next day). So for her, whatever the reason is, it's very compelling for her. If I try to twist her arm not only will she on some deep level resent giving away her power over her own decision making processes, but I'll always be wondering just how into it she'll be. I'll be wondering why I even needed to twist her arm. If she's destined to change her mind, she will, and in the meantime it's best to not come off as needy, although I really am dying to know.

So what I intend to do is leave it. That doesn't mean not talking about it here, but leave it as in not contact her. And maybe in a few weeks I'll send a playful email or flirt on the dating site. Something light, just to let her know that I've still got my eye on her.

And I should emphasise that I don't hold any of this against her. She's a nice girl. It's just that having such a good time and then saying no thanks is so weird. When I read the text I actually laughed. I took it seriously and believed it, but I laughed. I laughed because I was very aware that I didn't care too much, I felt pretty liberated. It's not her that I'm bothered about, it's just the confusion. Lately I've become very interested in female psychology and dating psychology, that's why it intrigues me.

She must know that I'm very confused, and actually I can use that to my advantage by not contacting her about it. Hopefully she'll respect my non-neediness.

July 29, 2012

I think everything you did was fine, and that you sound like a nice enough guy.
If you want to see her again text or email her:

I'd like to see you again and not just for sex.

That's it, that all.

It promises nothing, presents no pressure or obligation and let's her know that you enjoyed yourself.

Possibly a good idea and that did cross my mind, however, it hints that I want more. I don't want to lead her on.

I have to say that I do mildly resent her for not giving any explanation. It makes me feel like I always have to fix things. If I did ever go out with her properly I'd hate to think that every time there's a problem she's just going to go silent. During our meeting she did say (and emphasised) that she doesn't fight (which I took to mean argue). I don't like it when someone doesn't believe in resolving issues, and sometimes that does require an argument, even a mild one. Not a good sign. She does tick a lot of boxes but that is one that she doesn't appear to tick, among a few others.

July 29, 2012

You have no idea what was going through her mind. You don't seem to have even considered the possibility that she had a better option pop up. You can't send her a message on the website - you've blocked each other! You had one date; she owes you nothing. But you owe it to yourself to drop this mission impossible. Accept that you can't control everything you'd like to, or know all that intrigues you: it's truly liberating! Put your passion into a more productive project - a woman who will be more straight-forward, stable and fun!

Or keep chasing that poisonous tail of yours.

July 29, 2012

You have no idea what was going through her mind. You don't seem to have even considered the possibility that she had a better option pop up. You can't send her a message on the website - you've blocked each other! You had one date; she owes you nothing. But you owe it to yourself to drop this mission impossible. Accept that you can't control everything you'd like to, or know all that intrigues you: it's truly liberating! Put your passion into a more productive project - a woman who will be more straight-forward, stable and fun!

Or keep chasing that poisonous tail of yours.

Dude I understand. But let me just play out my personality, I need to get this out of my system by exhausting it. I'm 36 years old, I know how my mind works. I'm not bothering anyone (except you lot). Yes actually I'm now focussing on something else, I'm thinking about my list of criteria / standards.

By the way please don't misread my tone. I'm being friendly, and I do get what you're saying, but everyone's different.

July 30, 2012

I think that she probably liked you (until you commented negatively about her weight and became arrogant) and decided she would meet you to see whether you really were only looking for sex. She met you and maybe go the impression you were only looking for a body and not a person. In retrospect, she decided it wasn't what she wanted.

You were pretty much only concerned about the physical - sex and the way she looked - and that came across. You'd had a few 'misunderstandings' along the way which suggests she was upset about what you said at different points. Overall, the impression of meeting you didn't overcome any doubts she had at the back of her mind.

Women want sex just as much as guys. What they don't usually want is sex with a guy who only sees them as a body and cares nothing for them as a person.

July 30, 2012

Thanks, and I appreciate that, but I did make it clear. I do know what I want. What I want is to not make any assumptions about compatibility etc and just have fun while figuring it out. If it works it works, and if not, maybe we can carry on having fun, or maybe not. Effectively that's what she seemed to want too, although she expressed it differently (ie not emphasising the sex). She's a girl, it's not considered right to be so explicit about it, but I can be, and I should be, because someone has to clarify what's going on. The problem is that she wasn't consistent, because of the inner conflict of wanting it while not being able to talk about it.

Look, you wanted sex up front, and she did, too. Then she showed you her heavier pictures and you were critical. This was probably pretty crushing for her.

So then she expresses hesitation about you just using her for sex, and basically admits she can't feel good about herself if she does this, because she kind of likes you already.

The next day, she's like **** it, I'm horny and he's cute and not crazy, and texts you to tell you she wants you. Her sense of your arrogance is probably overblown because she's insecure and not feeling great about her overweight self.

Then she has second (third?) thoughts for whatever reason, and blocks you.

On your date, she was drinking and flirting with you. You not inviting her home she took as a rejection, a sign that you weren't that attracted. No man will use this excuse not to have sex. I once went home with a guy who had just moved and his entire apartment was a sea of moving boxes and crap. He warned me, but wasn't worried about it.

I'm guessing she shut you down because she's insecure, scared, and thinks you don't like her or aren't attracted to her.

So what I intend to do is leave it. That doesn't mean not talking about it here, but leave it as in not contact her. And maybe in a few weeks I'll send a playful email or flirt on the dating site. Something light, just to let her know that I've still got my eye on her.

I think this will fail. All it will do is make you look more like a player who doesn't give a **** about her. She'll assume you were just bored that day and trying to get an easy lay.

All the nonchalant, apathetic moves you're pulling and thinking up will get you nowhere with this girl. They'll just make her distrust you more.

I think the only way she'll go out with you again is if you reassure her wounded ego by pursuing her in a playful flirtatious way, tell her you really like her and want to get to know her, and reassure her that you aren't just after sex. Then you'll have to make a real effort to court her and romance her, because she will be skittish and suspicious. If you like her enough to deal with that, it's worth a shot. If not, then just move on and leave the poor girl be

July 30, 2012

I think that she probably liked you (until you commented negatively about her weight and became arrogant) and decided she would meet you to see whether you really were only looking for sex. She met you and maybe go the impression you were only looking for a body and not a person. In retrospect, she decided it wasn't what she wanted.

You were pretty much only concerned about the physical - sex and the way she looked - and that came across. You'd had a few 'misunderstandings' along the way which suggests she was upset about what you said at different points. Overall, the impression of meeting you didn't overcome any doubts she had at the back of her mind.

Women want sex just as much as guys. What they don't usually want is sex with a guy who only sees them as a body and cares nothing for them as a person.

I think you should either re read my OP or ask me questions so that you understand what actually happened. Sorry but your view is not based on what actually went on.

July 30, 2012

Look, you wanted sex up front, and she did, too. Then she showed you her heavier pictures and you were critical. This was probably pretty crushing for her.

So then she expresses hesitation about you just using her for sex, and basically admits she can't feel good about herself if she does this, because she kind of likes you already.

The next day, she's like **** it, I'm horny and he's cute and not crazy, and texts you to tell you she wants you. Her sense of your arrogance is probably overblown because she's insecure and not feeling great about her overweight self.

Then she has second (third?) thoughts for whatever reason, and blocks you.

On your date, she was drinking and flirting with you. You not inviting her home she took as a rejection, a sign that you weren't that attracted. No man will use this excuse not to have sex. I once went home with a guy who had just moved and his entire apartment was a sea of moving boxes and crap. He warned me, but wasn't worried about it.

I'm guessing she shut you down because she's insecure, scared, and thinks you don't like her or aren't attracted to her.

I think this will fail. All it will do is make you look more like a player who doesn't give a **** about her. She'll assume you were just bored that day and trying to get an easy lay.

All the nonchalant, apathetic moves you're pulling and thinking up will get you nowhere with this girl. They'll just make her distrust you more.

I think the only way she'll go out with you again is if you reassure her wounded ego by pursuing her in a playful flirtatious way, tell her you really like her and want to get to know her, and reassure her that you aren't just after sex. Then you'll have to make a real effort to court her and romance her, because she will be skittish and suspicious. If you like her enough to deal with that, it's worth a shot. If not, then just move on and leave the poor girl be

Your evaluation is pretty good. I can tell you have actually paid attention.

The problem is this, though. If this girl has self esteem issues, and if ultimately the reason for the text is because she felt weird about having sex with someone without knowing if she's liked as a person, then me telling her that I really like her is going to make it worse, because although I think she's nice, I don't want to lead her on and cause her greater self esteem issues.

Whatever the reason for her text, I have no doubt in my mind that she really likes me. And therefore the reason for the text is connected to that in some way.

And actually, during our time, I behaved in a way that made her feel very comfortable, and liked. I paid her lots of compliments, teased her in a way that made her laugh, listetend to what she said, and there was lots of rapport.

July 30, 2012

Props to the girl for not pulling a dissapearing act.

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