spiderowl Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 My expectations are VERY reasonable. Do what you say you're going to do. If anyone thinks that is a 'high high' expectation, then eff them. I agree w AlexCross. I didn't say your expectations weren't reasonable. It's what you do when someone doesn't meet them that needs thinking about. The guy I know who had expectations expected me to text him every day and read all the stuff he sent me. If I was tired and didn't, he'd get huffy and make pointed comments, he'd ignore me for a while, then have another go about what I hadn't done. He couldn't let anything drop. It was like being told off by a teacher. The fact is that while in a relationship, one keeps in touch but if you jump on your partner every time they are human and don't keep on top of everything, they are going to regret being your partner. Anger is scary - no-one wants to have someone angry with them. Why couldn't you just decide she's rubbish and walk away? If people don't meet your standards, leave them. Angry outbursts are an attempt to engage or seek revenge.
ja123 Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I should have known something was up when she didn't return my text the next day after our last phone call--about 9 days ago. Then I called her Monday night and no call back. You have every right to be angry; however, at the point quoted above, I would've just texted back a day or two before the meeting to say "Hey, I didn't hear from you, so I assume we're off. Take care." Then, if she happened to contact me at a later point, then I'd have probably blown her off by ignoring her. P.S. I'm a woman and, yeah, there are a lot of flakes out there ... of both sexes.
SJC2008 Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 You're not psychotic you were annoyed because an ADULT didn't have the ovaries to tell you or text you "Imajerk17 I'm sorry I'm going to have to cancel and at this time it would be better if we looked elsewhere sorry good luck and thanks". Now the woman's "excuse" will be I've been cursed out, called this that and the other etc. Also what's funny is that from the little PUA stuff I've read online. It says never show disappointment at a canceled/flaked date because it will turn them off etc. LOL if it's to the point they flake it's over and no mater what say or don't say it's over anyway.
Author Imajerk17 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Posted July 29, 2012 Thanks everyone... Im not a control freak. I do get angry, maybe disproportionately so, when people don't keep their word.... that is something extremely important to me.
Star Gazer Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Not my finest moment perhaps, but the way she handled the situation from her end didn't seem any better. Actually, she did handle it a lot better than you did. A LOT.
Star Gazer Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Thanks everyone... Im not a control freak. I do get angry, maybe disproportionately so, when people don't keep their word.... that is something extremely important to me. Then when they cross that boundary, you move on. You don't freak out and chew them out via a VM. You'd never even met this person. Flakes like this are a dime a dozen on OLD.
Star Gazer Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Considering you've never met her, only spoken to her on the phone a few times, she hadn't contacted you for 9 days before your rescheduled date, and ignored your phone calls and text messages in the days leading up? I think any socially adept person would realize that date was never happening and move on accordingly. This, 100000000%.
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Your response to her behavior was completely out of proportion. It would probably be OK if you have dated for a while and she suddenly flaked, but given that you never even met You need to invest less into online situations, that way it will be easier to just move on silently. And if I got a VM like that from a guy I never even met, I would definitely think he is psychotic I would also feel like I dodged a bullet. 1
Star Gazer Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Yeah being a cowardly passive aggressive person is really doing things the right way. She handled it like a 15 yr old would. Yup she did the right thing (rolling eyes) No one said she handled it appropriately. She's not the one who started this thread. Imajerk is asking whether HE acted appropriately given the facts. He didn't. He really, really didn't.
SJC2008 Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 When you are dating someone they had/have a life of their own before you came along so it is likely he/she put something aside to go on a date. Knowing that and ignoring them is the epitome of rude and inconsiderate. That being said she did you a favor because she showed her true colors BEFORE you met OP so look at it that way!
gaius Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Not everyone has a straightforward method of communication, just something you have to get used to. She told you she wasn't into it by not answering your messages and you ignored her. Just call it a day if you don't get a reply to 2 messages in a row and you will keep your dignity, not feel the need to explode. I used to put way more effort in than I should. Now if I start getting ignored that's it, even if it's a girl I really dig and could see myself marrying one day. 1
RedRobin Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Thanks. I've come to be a big believer in expressing anger. It was cathartic leaving her that voicemail. Don't tread on me! Seriously, I just want basic respect. ...but... take it from someone who (in my youth) stuffed all of my anger and became anorexic and depressed... Then swung the other way in the 'let it all hang out' and expressing my anger... I came to the conclusion that neither was healthy. Ultimately is a very bad habit to routinely become unhinged on people. Why? Because sometimes you are wrong. And then you have no chance to make amends. Learning how to responsibly feel, then process, then communicate anger (legitimate or not) is a VERY important life skill. Man or woman. Unfortunately, too many men are given a free pass to express anger irresponsibly... just as too many women are given a free pass to cry when we feel frustrated. Culturally... what it does is reinforce negative coping and communication strategies waaay too long into adulthood and dating situations. That said, I do agree with you that cancelling at the last minute is rude. In the past, I might have done what you did. These days I just don't accept any requests for future get togethers. It tends to reduce/eliminate the drama and emotional fallout for everyone.
thatone Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) I didn't say your expectations weren't reasonable. It's what you do when someone doesn't meet them that needs thinking about. The guy I know who had expectations expected me to text him every day and read all the stuff he sent me. If I was tired and didn't, he'd get huffy and make pointed comments, he'd ignore me for a while, then have another go about what I hadn't done. He couldn't let anything drop. It was like being told off by a teacher. The fact is that while in a relationship, one keeps in touch but if you jump on your partner every time they are human and don't keep on top of everything, they are going to regret being your partner. Anger is scary - no-one wants to have someone angry with them. Why couldn't you just decide she's rubbish and walk away? If people don't meet your standards, leave them. Angry outbursts are an attempt to engage or seek revenge. no, your flaky nature is not ok. no matter how much you try to rationalize it, it's still not ok. it is your fault. as for the OP, there's a common thread in all of these posts... it goes something like... "yeah she flaked on me once but for a legit reason" no it wasn't a legit reason. it was a lie the first time around too. now you've wasted more time, once dealing with her and once posting about it here. the only thing you did that was rational was call her and yell at her, honestly. of course the women will line up to defend the flake, because they've all done the same thing. but the proper response when dealing with a selfish person is not to try to appease them, but to be selfish as well. if yelling at her voice mail makes you feel better, go for it. when she flaked on you she forfeited any expectation of being treated with respect. Edited July 29, 2012 by thatone
RedRobin Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Nobody has defended flaking. They are advising the OP on better communication methods. an eye-for-an-eye type behavior does not tend to increase one's chances of finding or keeping a relationship. Justifying these raging moments does increase the OP's chances of finding a woman who has been abused in the past and hasn't broken that habit though... and puts up with it from him. Good luck with the flip side of THAT dynamic...
ThaWholigan Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I don't know about this. Personally, I would have just cut her off without saying anything. But then again, it probably wouldn't have angered me much. Probably would have been better to just forget about it IMHO. 1
thatone Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Nobody has defended flaking. They are advising the OP on better communication methods. an eye-for-an-eye type behavior does not tend to increase one's chances of finding or keeping a relationship. Justifying these raging moments does increase the OP's chances of finding a woman who has been abused in the past and hasn't broken that habit though... and puts up with it from him. Good luck with the flip side of THAT dynamic... he doesn't need any advice if what he's telling us is true, the girl needed advice. nor does him yelling at her voice mail decrease his chances, his chances were zero. she was obviously just looking for email/phone attention and had no intent of ever meeeting. who said anything about abuse? 1
RedRobin Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Yelling is a bad habit. He admits to having a temper. He has every reason to be angry. We are suggesting he has other ways to manage it besides yelling. It isn't even about immediate consequences with this particular woman. He's going to lose it at the wrong time and at the wrong place if he doesn't find other ways to manage his temper. He will lose opportunities (both business and personal), and disable or end friendships/relationships. He probably already has many times... There is a book I highly recommend. It is called "Fierce Conversations" Amazon.com: fierce conversations: Books It is all about ways to have open, honest conversations that get to the truth of things while respecting others. Now that I mention it... it has been awhile since I cracked this book. I could afford to look at it again.
Star Gazer Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 In all due respect, I disagree. He was upset. He vented. He did not yell, curse, demean, was not abusive. I dont think he did anything wrong. I am all about communication regardless of the situation. Psychotic would be if he called her multiple times, cursed her out, demeaned her, etc. He let off some steam and he moved on. Please read what I wrote. I didn't say he was psychotic. I said he didn't handle it well, and he handled it far worse than she did.
Author Imajerk17 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Posted July 29, 2012 Please read what I wrote. I didn't say he was psychotic. I said he didn't handle it well, and he handled it far worse than she did. I disagree with this. If someone flakes on me I'm going to express my anger at them. If that makes me "too intense" so be it. I was put out A LOT more by her behavior than she was mine. Im not sure why I asked for advice. Maybe it was just to vent on this chick? I'm not going to change my ways of calling out someone when I'm upset though.
xxoo Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I was put out A LOT more by her behavior than she was mine. How were you put out? You invested more, but her behavior (ignoring your communications for 9 days prior to your plans) didn't encourage you to do so. 1
Author Imajerk17 Posted July 29, 2012 Author Posted July 29, 2012 RedRobin you wrote me some really thoughtful posts that deserve comment. I'm on my mobile now... I will respond to what you wrote when I get to my computer!
serial muse Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Sure, I think the absolute ideal way to handle it would've been to call and say, as another poster suggested, "since I haven't heard from you, I'll assume we're off - take care." That said - I don't see what the big deal is about what he said. The one bit that I'd have left out is the "classless" thing - that sort of comment never looks good in the cold light of day. But frankly I don't see anything wrong with telling her that what she did was rude. Ima, I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. It is true that there are lots of similarly flaky people online, so it's probably best for your own mental health, in the long run, not to take it personally. But I also don't think you should rewrite this in your head and wonder if you ought to have handled it differently. Just put it in the rearview mirror. 1
Star Gazer Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I disagree with this. If someone flakes on me I'm going to express my anger at them. If that makes me "too intense" so be it. I was put out A LOT more by her behavior than she was mine. Im not sure why I asked for advice. Maybe it was just to vent on this chick? I'm not going to change my ways of calling out someone when I'm upset though. You're right, "then, so be it." You are too intense. You are way too invested in someone you hadn't even met who'd outright ignored your repeated efforts to make contact for 9 days if you even get worked up as much as you did such that you cannot control your impulse to call her and leave her a yelling, scathing voicemail. 98.9% of the population would not have responded the way you did given the circumstances. Rather, they would have just realized she's not interested, and moved on, without the nasty rude voicemail.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I totally agree that it's healthy to express all emotions, including the negative ones, to get them out of your system and move on without them weighing you down. I was skimming the thread and totally on your side, Imajerk, till I read this post: Considering you've never met her, only spoken to her on the phone a few times, she hadn't contacted you for 9 days before your rescheduled date, and ignored your phone calls and text messages in the days leading up? I think any socially adept person would realize that date was never happening and move on accordingly. Yeah. She did not respond to your text 9 days ago, or your phone call 5 days ago. I think these are pretty big clues that your upcoming date was not on. If she wanted to see you, she would have gotten back to you both times. I'm very new to online dating, but if I'm in the process of getting to know a guy and we're setting up a date, communication had better be very clear and consistent during that time. If he's at all flaky, I'm out. I think she was showing her disinterest when she didn't respond to the text, and then it was cemented when she didn't return your call. But it's nothing personal. She could have another guy in the picture, ex is back around, she changed her mind for whatever reason, who knows what. 1
It's Just Me Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 I have certain friends that flake on me every now and then. I'm therefore used to people not living up to their promises and commitments, and take everything with a grain of salt, up until the last moment of planning. Given the statement of facts (as everyone has mentioned), I would have ceased 'confirmation communication' 9 days ago, after the ignored text, and gotten on with my life and other plans. Was it rude of her? Yes. Absolutely. Were you over the top in speaking your mind? No. As Ruby Slippers points out, she could have had other stuff going on. The onus is then on the girl to clearly point that out, and say, "You know what? Our meet isn't going to work, so my apologies for bailing," instead of being silent. Common courtesy really has gone out the window. While I may not have gone ballistic, I'd certainly have been feeling that way. 1
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