Now I am no psycho but what do you think

[murphy pee]

There are many ways of skinning a cat. In this case, the woman is not advised to ask a man out directly. Hints are better. Some need strong hints, others get going on smaller, less obvious ones. For example, if a female workmate, here in Africa, asked for my number or my res address, I would take that hint. And if I like her, its all systems GO!

 

If she brushed her body against mine in a seductive manner (breasts, butt, etc), that would be stronger, implying she wants more than just to hang out . Again, if I like, HELL YEAH, USHER, I WILL TAKE HER HOME!

 

Just do what comes naturally. Personally, I hate living life thinking 'what if'.

[HoldOn]

Hey guys, don't be so harsh!

 

I never said that it's impossible to find a nice guy by asking him out. I just said that it wouldn't work for me. But you are saying that it is impossible for me to find a man by waiting for him to call. Which is just wrong. My best friend is married to man who asked her out first. In fact, she accidently gave him a completely wrong phone number, but he looked her up anyway. (He knew she was interested, because she flirted with him.) Also, I NEVER said that a girl shouldn't show INTEREST in a man!

 

Another one of my girlfriends is planning on marrying a man who asked her out first.

 

Similarly, a man who may be somewhat insecure can be a complete gem and well worth having in your life

Maybe your life.

 

If you really loved me, you would (insert symbolic act here)" belief. These can be big pitfalls because they often don't take human failings into account. So, for instance, a person here was getting furious with her husband because her symbol was taking out the trash and the guy consistently forgot to do it. The assumption behind the symbol is that people will always behave a certain way because of certain feelings, which is isn't the case. Man in question is a chronic forgetter; his love for his wife will not improve his impaired memory function no matter how much he'd wish it to.

 

That is not at all how I feel. The only specific thing a man has to do is call me. I don't have any other specifications, except he must show me that he loves me in his own way. My bf bought me a jar of pickles (which I love!) and that shows his love for me, IMO. I think that calling someone is a pretty universal sign of interest and guys know that.

 

but if you wouldn't mind having a wonderful, loving man who is, for all his wonderfulness, absent-minded, then you would have to shed the idea that his forgetting the trash means he doesn't care.

 

I HAVE a wonderful man! I don't care if he takes out the trash, but he love have to love and respect me.

And I AM really easy going. I call my bf when I want to talk to him and he calls me. I don't expect much, except for the first phone call and respect.

 

All I am asking for is LOVE and RESPECT. There is no checklist or mandatory tasks he must do. I only love those who love me. That's just smart, not manipulative.

 

Moimeme, are you telling me that you would pursue a relationship where you don't feel loved or cherished?? That's not my cup of tea.

[HoldOn]

And Clia, you are sooo right. Letting the man take the lead doesn't mean we're wilting flowers!

 

. I like it when the man takes control, plans a wonderful date, calls me, asks me out, sends me flowers, etc.

Hell yeah!

 

Expect no less than you deserve.

[clia]

Some women who still have these old-fashioned ideas about relationships could do well to change; they would notice that if they show an interest, they would have better luck in such areas of life.

 

And perhaps men who don't have these old-fashioned ideas could do well to change; they would notice that if they show an interest, they would have better luck in such areas of life.

 

I've had great luck with my approach -- I've dated wonderful guys who were right for me, and I have a fabulous boyfriend.

 

So, tell me why I'm doing something wrong? I don't see how my luck could get any better!

 

We don't all have to agree, here. I'm not saying my way is better than your way. I'm saying my way works for me.

 

So I'm hearing here the belief that 'if man X really loves me, that will be sufficient to motivate him to pursue me and therefore his failure to pursue me means he doesn't care'.

 

This is how I feel: If man X is really interested in me, that will be sufficient to motivate him to pursue (i.e. call) me and therefore his failure to pursue me means he is not interested.

 

I've been through it -- I've tried many types of approaches to dating. For me, 9/10 if the man does not show interest in my by calling and asking me out, he is simply not that interested. I don't want to settle for that. I want a guy who is very, very interested. And for that remaining guy, if he is too afraid to step up and ask me out, he is not a good match for me.

 

If your tolerance for frailties and failings is low, then it's probably wise to live in those assumptions, but if you wouldn't mind having a wonderful, loving man who is, for all his wonderfulness, absent-minded, then you would have to shed the idea that his forgetting the trash means he doesn't care.

 

Actually, I'm very easy going and have a lot of tolerance for human frailty and failings. I would not blow through the roof and think my man didn't love me if he failed to take out the garbage. That's just silly.

[moimeme]

But you are saying that it is impossible for me to find a man by waiting for him to call

 

Nobody said that.

[HoldOn]

Sorry!

 

You said:

 

"If your tolerance for frailties and failings is low, then it's probably wise to live in those assumptions, but if you wouldn't mind having a wonderful, loving man who is, for all his wonderfulness, absent-minded, then you would have to shed the idea that his forgetting the trash means he doesn't care. "

 

Sorry if I misinterpreted. I thought that's what you meant. I might have been thinking of faux, who said "Some women who still have these old-fashioned ideas about relationships could do well to change; they would notice that if they show an interest, they would have better luck in such areas of life. "

 

OK, let's get back to the original questions:

 

I was planning on going out for dinner with this guy from work, that I had asked out on a date. We had chatted for about 2 hours on the phone and he suggested that we go out for dinner and he said that he would call me, as he was busy at work for a week. Well that was the 5/6th July and no phone call yet. Now I do not pretend to understand men, but I like to think that when a 38 single guy says that he is going to call then he will, unless of course he never planned on doing so.

 

let's review. She called him. She asked him out. They talked for two hours on the phone until he finally suggested that they go out. He said he would call. He did not call.

 

She already showed a lot of interest by calling him and asking him out. I don't think he is afraid of rejection here! Also, I guess he *could* have lost the number. this guy's a doctor, think he could be more organized if he was head over heels for her. Also, being a smart man, I think he could learn to use a phone book. Also, most people have caller id, and he would have her number.

 

How much pursuing should she do before realizing that it's not going to work?

 

Sorry this guy didn't work out, Brit. You'll find a better man soon. He was probably not meant for you anyway!

[Goldmund2004]

I've been around the block a few times and I will tell you that there is no rule of thumb about whether a girl should ask a guy out or play cool and cold, icy wench and ignore him unless he comes after her. Quite frankly, I think that game is lame. If you want to go out with a guy and are attracted to him, then invite him to do something and be cool. If he likes you, he will call you. I've had plenty of girls ask me out and the track record of it being either a) fun or b) a prelude to a decent if not long-term relationship is no better or worse than those cases I had done the asking. I am divorced, and with my first wife I did the pursuing so from my perspective I think sometimes I will just play coy, cold, and icy and make her chase me instead, but as is the case when the roles are reversed this doesn't work very well. If I think a girl is attractive and she plays cool and cold and expects me to work and put on a monkey-show then I assume she isn't interested and move on.

 

That having been said, when a girl asks a guy out and it goes okay but he never calls the same thing is true when a girl never calls after a guy asks a girl out--she didn't like him that much to waste time on a second date. If there isn't any chemistry, or the timing's not right, then they won't call.

 

As for your situation, he probably doesn't want to get involved with someone from work. If he really is serious about his career then he won't make the damn fool mistake of dating much less sleeping with women from work. Most guys in their '30's who have professional careers have made that mistake in their '20's and learned the hard way that it is stupid and never works. So, if you work together which is what it sounds like then it doesn't surprise me that he's not calling. Given that he's a doctor he might just be busy, and no one likes to go on a date if they are rushed or consumed with work issues b/c it's not fun and too hard to relax.

 

Or, he may just not want to start dating as usually this means having to decide if you want to be in a relationship viz a viz a 2nd, 3rd, 4th date and so on and generally guys won't even pursue it with a girl (especially after they are older and professional) unless she is relationship material.

[BritRN]

To me, there is no excuse for a guy not calling when he said that he would. but that of course is a womens perspective, and we always expect people to be polite. Now at the dating at work thing goes, I know and have been in that situation before, but he has left that particular job and I will never see him again. To me it is simple.

 

I emailed him out on a date, he emailed me with his number. I called him, we chatted, it was a nice chat. He suggested dinner, I saw him at work and he smiled at me, and then he never called. To me, that is showing no interest.

 

But what I don't understand is why go to all that trouble, emailing and chatting for two hours and being smiley at work, only to not bother in the end. I wasn't asking for marriage or anything, just friendship.

 

I remember this actal quote (lets go out to dinner and see where it leads). To me he was giving me lots of signals, and then just changed his mind. Which is ok I guess, but hard to understand. I try to stick to my word, but it helps being divorced, as it has given me a better perspective on relationships, rather than never having been in one.

 

Time to move on I say.

 

Thanks for your kind words of advice.

[HoldOn]

whether a girl should ask a guy out or play cool and cold, icy wench and ignore him unless he comes after her.

 

Goldmund2004, bitter much?

 

I never said that I don't flirt, laugh and joke around. I just don't call for the first date, jeez. relax.

 

BritRN, Glad you're moving on. He can't keep his word, anyway.

[Curt]

Brit,

 

I'm so sorry that it didn't work out in this case.

 

Thanks though, on behalf of the decent guys out here who want to find him now and give him a swift kick in the rear.

 

You gave it a real shot. Don't take this as confirmation that such a thing doesn't work though. One guy doesn't mean everyone.

 

Crap! I'm more ticked than you are!