Buck Turgidson Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 Okay so what exactly is the point of words if we can all just MAKE UP OUR OWN DEFINITIONS OF THEM? Surrounded by our friends and family, in the presence of witnesses, as officiated by a cleric of our denomination, we exchanged vows with one another in a ceremony whose roots go back thousands of years, just as thousands of years worth of married people have done before us. And you think we're not married because we didn't have a permission slip? I'm not the one making up definitions.
veggirl Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 Surrounded by our friends and family, in the presence of witnesses, as officiated by a cleric of our denomination, we exchanged vows with one another in a ceremony whose roots go back thousands of years, just as thousands of years worth of married people have done before us. And you think we're not married because we didn't have a permission slip? I'm not the one making up definitions. Permission slip? What? Look I'm not questioning you and your wife's committment to one another. But at the end of the day, legally are you married? I guess not. I assume you file taxes as single not married? Obviously we are coming from different perspectives here. I am talking about a legal, government recognized marriage. The "institution" of marriage if you will.
pink_sugar Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 Yeah, I once was talking to a real cutie that worked at the gym, was actually on a reality show as a Coyote Ugly contestant. The creepy thing was, her fiance' was around almost 20 years older than her, she was 21, and his son was only 2 years younger than her. LOL She said she was engaged, and I go, "Oh really, when?" Her: "Meh, we're in no rush." So what's the point of an engagement, if you're never going to have a date set? Usually, some men do this to use the engagement ring as a "branding iron" of sorts to tell other men to back off. I definitely agree with this. I see it on facebook all the time. People claiming they are "engaged" when they really have no marriage plans in the works. To me, a real engagement is when you have announced it to everyone, date set and wedding planning in the works. You are not "engaged" if you don't plan to marry anytime soon.
zengirl Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 I only know one couple that does this that can legally get married (I know some gay couples that do it for obvious reasons). It is because the 'wife's' brother is gay, and she refuses to get married until everyone is allowed to under the law. The 'husband' shares the sentiment. They own a house together, have a kid together, and look forward to a day of marriage-equality where they can be married and so can their gay friends. I get the notion of holding out till an institution is fair to be a part of it. Personally, I respect and love that mindset, though I'm too selfish to hold myself to it, sadly. So . . . I guess it depends on the reason. I had no idea this was a common thing, but hell, I never ask to see a marriage certificate and just take people at their word. For all I know, half the married people I know aren't legally married!
Buck Turgidson Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 Permission slip? What? The marriage license, of course, where "license" means "permission," which is the one and only thing that makes a marriage legally recognized in most jurisdictions today. But at the end of the day, legally are you married? I guess not. I assume you file taxes as single not married? You mean, does the government recognize our marriage. The answer is no, it does not, but that is of no consequence and is irrelevant to the question of whether we are indeed married. When marriage was forbidden to slaves, but they married anyway, are you saying that they weren't really married? When marriage was forbidden to interracial couples, but they married anyway, were they not really married? When marriage is forbidden to same-sex couples, but they marry anyway, are they not really married? No one has the right to tell a couple that they are married or not, including governments. That is for the couple to decide. Obviously we are coming from different perspectives here. I am talking about a legal, government recognized marriage. The "institution" of marriage if you will. The government didn't invent the institution of marriage. What we're talking about is cohabiting couples who refer to themselves as married when they aren't legally wed, a category into which I happen to fall. And yet I'm pretty certain that I also fall into the category of married people. I definitely recall someone saying "man and wife," and then paying out the wazoo for the reception. A legal marriage, the one you think is the only one that gives the couple the right to call each other man and wife, is absolutely nothing but the signed marriage license. That is all it is. Two strangers can go to a courthouse one day, go up to the registrar's desk, sign it, and then file taxes as married, and no one would bat an eye. All legal and stuff. That's not what people generally mean when they say that they are married. There's being married, and then there's having one's marriage recognized by the powers that be. So I wonder why you have such a hard time with people referring to themselves as married, without the license. You talk about the meanings of words, but I'm pretty sure that to most people the word "marriage" contains meanings of love, partnership, and commitment. The government doesn't ask you about any of these things when you sign the form. It's just a form that says you agree to be married. So why are you using a signature on a form like that (which is all legal marriage is) as your basis for who is allowed to call themselves husband and wife?
Buck Turgidson Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) I only know one couple that does this that can legally get married (I know some gay couples that do it for obvious reasons). It is because the 'wife's' brother is gay, and she refuses to get married until everyone is allowed to under the law. More or less our reasons as well. In the runup to the wedding, we realized that we were inviting our wonderful gay and lesbian friends who weren't allowed to get legally married. We talked to them and learned how emotionally hard it was for them to attend, when they aren't afforded the same rights. In solidarity with them, we tore up our marriage license. EDIT: actually, that's not true. We didn't actually tear it up. We used it as a shim under our dining room table. It was wobbly. Our marriage is not. Edited July 27, 2012 by Buck Turgidson
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