Is There An Age To 'Throw In the Towel' for Women?

[Eclypse]

I don't think there is an age cutoff. People's tastes change as they age. As a 21 year old guy currently, my age range that I'm interested in are 17-24ish. I don't have much interest in 30+ year old women at the moment (even if I do find them hot) and I am sure they have 0 interest in me. When I'm in my 30s I'll be interested in women in their 30s, but I probably won't have all that much interest in 18 year old girls (hopefully lol). Anyway everyone has their own tastes.

[Star Gazer]

I feel much sexier now at 34 than I did at 28, which is actually when I first met my SO!

 

It's time to throw in the towel when your heart stops beating. Literally, not figuratively.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I feel much sexier now at 34 than I did at 28, which is actually when I first met my SO!

 

I can look back over ALL of it from my current (elderly) perspective, and say with 100% certainty that I was way, way sexier and better overall after 30 than I was before.

 

Honestly, I don't think my body started to suddenly decline after 30, but even if it did, I was so much more confident in myself, and in my own skin, and okay with the body I had, that I was simply living in a whole different world than I was in my 20's.

 

I think it took my entire 20's decade to get pretty much past some lingering teenage and high school related self esteem crap.

 

Anyway, 30 is the new 20. And I guess 60 is the new 39. Just because I think it should be!

[zengirl]

Posting helps me because it helps get it out of my head. The more things sit in my head, the worse it gets. Expressing it helps relieve the pressure.

 

I am like this. It stresses Hubby out, but he has learned to deal. I need to vent sometimes. I fix the problem, I find a more positive mindset, but venting does help. I've read loads of books on how venting increases unhappiness, and I think that's true - after a point - so I try to find a balance. I don't think there's anything wrong with a good vent, though, no matter how positive or negative you are: especially if you're actually getting something OUT of your head and seeing it outside. I'd question whether you're always open to doing that, V, and maybe advise some of that. Actually LET IT OUT and release it for a bit. Not a request because I mind your threads; just some advice for you.

 

Really, all I want is some sympathy and validation.

 

You want validation of invalidation though, which is kind of a complex social mechanism you're looking for there. For instance: I can't call you ugly because I don't think you're ugly. So I can't validate your opinion, which is additionally an opinion that can't validate you. I get why saying, "Yes, it sucks to be ugly like you" would soothe and validate you (but honestly it's a hard concept to understand if you don't have a mindset of self-invalidation or some experience working with people with that mindset) by validating your worldview. But at the end of the day, would that help you? It would also be a lie in the case of many people who claim vehemently that you're not ugly - pretty sure they really mean it and know I do - and another thing you really feel strongly about is being realistic and honest, right?

 

Just some goddamn understanding, even. "Yep, being ugly sucks." Yay! "Yeah, dating for women over 30 is really tough."

 

You've never been a woman over 30, so how would that last one validate your experiences? How do you know your dating life won't be kickass, amazing, the best it's ever been at 31? There are people who experience that. Truly. And there are people who experience all kinds of other things.

 

I think your experiences are real and valid. I also think that everyone views their own experiences emotionally and misses things (you do, I do, we all do) and needs to step out of their heads. But, in the case of age, you don't have ANY experiences with this. You're still in your 20s. You're not in those dreaded 30s (neither am I, so what do I know).

[todreaminblue]

Explain this to me. If someone is not a manipulator, how would they respond to being accused of being emotionally manipulative? Cause it seems to be a double-bind: no matter how you play it, you look guilty.

 

Please, give examples of how I am being emotionally manipulative. I am interested in this, because I can't conceive of how someone could be both as socially awkward and confused as I am, AND also the emotionally manipulative mastermind you paint me as. How do those two things work together?

 

Moreover, if I was emotionally manipulative, would I not be able to manipulate to get what I want (a boyfriend, friends who like me, sympathy?) If anything, doesn't this thread prove how inept I am at "manipulating," since I can't even get most posters to give me sympathy and validation?

 

Now maybe you're going to claim I want attention. Sure. We're on an advice forum... everyone who posts wants attention. DreamingofTigers and McGuffin wondered if I was ignoring them when I didn't directly respond to their posts. Would you accuse them of manipulating me for attention? Probably not. What exactly is the line between "expressing oneself on a forum" and "attention-whoring"?

 

All that said, it's apparent you can't read very well, since William had a post not that long enough stressing that calling out someone else's credibility is strictly against forum rules. Troll, attention-whore, manipulator... whatever label you give me, it still destroys my credibility and turns this thread into me fruitlessly trying to defend myself against an armchair psychologist, who won't even give specific examples of HOW I'm manipulating people.

 

 

For the first time in quite while i read from first post in the thread to the last post in the thread normally I like to post from the opening post so I don't get bias from another's opinion... this thread has made me feel retarded and unintelligent

{quote}What exactly is the line between "expressing oneself on a forum" and "attention-whoring"?

you..... are expressing yourself and that you are unhappy with your life in a thread that you started.....you reached out... you feel that as you drag yourself through the days that no one will care if you are gone so you are trying to validate the life that you live..and that no one will care if you pass on.....ill validate yours because i know how you feel only mine is reversed.......you feel ugly and alone, confused......you are confused about what you want, you feel worthless you want to feel the support of others who feel like you and you reached out in here......for sympathy and validation ...you have that now do i think you should have hope that you will make it.i can guarantee it..you can feel supported even though you feel like crap...why?

 

I have nearly succeeded in it being over

 

because when its nearly there.....you dont need to ask advice or ask for sympathy......you dont care what people are saying to you....you agree with everything they say..

you smile...theres a cold pit in your centre that doesnt budge..you go on as normal but you are debating you still have spark i can read it in your posts so hold on to that....you are not dead inside yet..... i tak medication its like life support i am dead inside i try to help people to bring some feeling back........i cant do this anymore if you havent got me on ignore verhzn....you arent close to giving up yet take it from someone who has been there before good luck and I know how you feel....goodbye

[verhrzn]

I am like this. It stresses Hubby out, but he has learned to deal. I need to vent sometimes. I fix the problem, I find a more positive mindset, but venting does help. I've read loads of books on how venting increases unhappiness, and I think that's true - after a point - so I try to find a balance. I don't think there's anything wrong with a good vent, though, no matter how positive or negative you are: especially if you're actually getting something OUT of your head and seeing it outside. I'd question whether you're always open to doing that, V, and maybe advise some of that. Actually LET IT OUT and release it for a bit. Not a request because I mind your threads; just some advice for you.

 

I think this forum is a bit of a trap, in that way... I get to express myself, but that usually results in defending myself to some extension, so instead of examining, I get more trapped in my thinking (defending something will automatically make you relate to it more.) For example, in this thread, I didn't feel like I could really dig into all the "issues" posters were laying at my doorstep until I felt like someone understood where I was coming from. Hearing posters like McGuffin, DreamingofTigers, and Pioruette say that they relate and have felt similar really helped me calm down. Sad it took lots and lots of pages to get there. Not sure how to circumvent that process. Ideas?

 

You want validation of invalidation though, which is kind of a complex social mechanism you're looking for there. For instance: I can't call you ugly because I don't think you're ugly. So I can't validate your opinion, which is additionally an opinion that can't validate you. I get why saying, "Yes, it sucks to be ugly like you" would soothe and validate you (but honestly it's a hard concept to understand if you don't have a mindset of self-invalidation or some experience working with people with that mindset) by validating your worldview. But at the end of the day, would that help you? It would also be a lie in the case of many people who claim vehemently that you're not ugly - pretty sure they really mean it and know I do - and another thing you really feel strongly about is being realistic and honest, right?

 

Out of curiosity, when have you worked with people with that sort of mindset? Or do you/did you have that mindset?

 

I.... think the validation would help, because similar to what I said earlier in the post, it would calm me down enough emotionally that I could cut through to actually dealing with things logically. When I have a head full of steam about something that is emotional (feeling ugly), it's impossible to argue out of; it's like wax on clothes, the harder you scrub the worse it gets. But having people agree with my emotional argument means it would calm down enough for me to take away the tunnel vision.

 

That said, no idea how that can work with a forum. I use this forum as a way to self-soothe and bounce ideas, emotions, "social skills" off people... but I come here and post when I'm already in a high emotional state, which seems to make other posters anxious and frustrated, which heightens my emotional state more.

 

Any ideas or suggestions on how to handle that complex problem?

 

 

You've never been a woman over 30, so how would that last one validate your experiences? How do you know your dating life won't be kickass, amazing, the best it's ever been at 31? There are people who experience that. Truly. And there are people who experience all kinds of other things.

 

You're still in your 20s. You're not in those dreaded 30s (neither am I, so what do I know).

 

Haha, a good point. I guess I just assume, given everything I've read on this forum and elsewhere, especially from the guys' perspective. The funny thing in this thread is, most of the women say they felt much better in their 30's... but all the guys say women over 30 are only good if they look young (have taken care of themselves.) So maybe the conclusion is I'll feel better after 30 but guys still won't find me attractive?

[McGuffin]

Hey, V! Hope you're doing well today.

 

I was doing some searching for you. I wonder if you've ever done Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I know you've tried a lot of stuff but I didn't see you mention it in particular.

 

I know you can't afford therapy. (It's crazy expensive.) So I looked for free resources. I found a site that I looks like it has a lot of good stuff. I didn't go to formal therapy, so I didn't know it was called CBT, but these are pretty much the techniques I used to get rid of that fear of embarrassment.

 

GET.gg Cognitive Behaviour Therapy Self-Help Resources

 

Don't look at the "Positive Steps to Mental Health" page though. I think that one will just annoy you. That page is a little simplistic and that's the stuff you've already tried. It seems to me more like an end-goal than steps to get there.

 

The other pages have good stuff about how to train yourself to look at things. The downloads page has some things about thinking habits and different perspectives that I thought were interesting. I think "helicopter view" and "court case" might be helpful tools.

 

Also check out the "Poisoned Parrot" page. I think it's a pretty good metaphor for that internal voice that keeps saying people will make fun of you if you dress nicer or stand out. What do you think?

Edited July 27, 2012 by McGuffin

[verhrzn]

Hey, V! Hope you're doing well today.

 

I was doing some searching for you. I wonder if you've ever done Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I know you've tried a lot of stuff but I didn't see you mention it in particular.

 

I know you can't afford therapy. (It's crazy expensive.) So I looked for free resources. I found a site that I looks like it has a lot of good stuff. I didn't go to formal therapy, so I didn't know it was called CBT, but these are pretty much the techniques I used to get rid of that fear of embarrassment.

 

GET.gg Cognitive Behaviour Therapy Self-Help Resources

 

Don't look at the "Positive Steps to Mental Health page though. I think that one will just annoy you. That page is a little simplistic and that's the stuff you've already tried. The other pages have good stuff about how to train yourself to look at things. The downloads page has some things about thinking habits and different perspectives that I thought were interesting. I think "helicopter view" and "court case" might be helpful tools.

 

Also check out the "Poisoned Parrot" page. I think it's a pretty good metaphor for that internal voice that keeps saying people will make fun of you if you dress nicer or stand out. What do you think?

 

I will definitely check it out, thank you!

 

I... I think the other thing is, there IS a very major issue I've been dealing with for a month or two that I think has thrown me into a tailspin, thus my Annoying-"Trolling" recent thread increase. But I'm not sure if I can talk about it, but I need to, and URGH.

 

In other words, I'd just like to thank everyone for dealing with me in my very weakened emotional state, in which I am actually tip-toeing around the main problem that's eating me up right now.*

 

*Sorry if it's emotional manipulation and all attention-whorey to say that without actually telling people the issue. I want to come clean but I don't know if I safely can. Blargity. Sorry.

[Els]

Hey, we've all been there. Come clean when you feel it's comfortable. PM people you feel comfortable talking to if you don't think you'll feel comfortable in public. If you do post it, I suggest a good and hearty lengthening of your ignore list before doing so, because you already know some trolls are going to respond.

[ThaWholigan]

Hey, we've all been there. Come clean when you feel it's comfortable. PM people you feel comfortable talking to if you don't think you'll feel comfortable in public. If you do post it, I suggest a good and hearty lengthening of your ignore list before doing so, because you already know some trolls are going to respond.

Agreed. I'm always available for PM from anyone who needs help

[McGuffin]

I will definitely check it out, thank you!

 

I... I think the other thing is, there IS a very major issue I've been dealing with for a month or two that I think has thrown me into a tailspin, thus my Annoying-"Trolling" recent thread increase. But I'm not sure if I can talk about it, but I need to, and URGH.

 

In other words, I'd just like to thank everyone for dealing with me in my very weakened emotional state, in which I am actually tip-toeing around the main problem that's eating me up right now.*

 

*Sorry if it's emotional manipulation and all attention-whorey to say that without actually telling people the issue. I want to come clean but I don't know if I safely can. Blargity. Sorry.

 

I can't blame you for not wanting to share a major issue. This forum seems like it can be a little too much when you're emotionally vulnerable. Most people mean well but some are just mean and it can be hard to separate the two and not feel like you have to defend yourself when it's something very personal.

 

It's important to talk about things that are bothering you though and not to bottle them up. If you have people you trust that you can talk to, you should. I'd offer to let you PM me, but I don't think I have that option yet. If I'm wrong and I do, then you're welcome to do so.

[somedude81]

I will definitely check it out, thank you!

 

I... I think the other thing is, there IS a very major issue I've been dealing with for a month or two that I think has thrown me into a tailspin, thus my Annoying-"Trolling" recent thread increase. But I'm not sure if I can talk about it, but I need to, and URGH.

 

In other words, I'd just like to thank everyone for dealing with me in my very weakened emotional state, in which I am actually tip-toeing around the main problem that's eating me up right now.*

 

*Sorry if it's emotional manipulation and all attention-whorey to say that without actually telling people the issue. I want to come clean but I don't know if I safely can. Blargity. Sorry.

Hmm, main problem? What could it be?

 

You got pregnant

You killed somebody using your martial arts skillz

Had a fling with a guy but you wanted more while he didn't

You caught some disease after you were bitten by a raccoon you were trying to save

Something happened at your job

Got blasted by gamma radiation and turn green when you get angry

 

Any of those close?

[Negative Nancy]

If that were true, no men would ever stay with their women above ages 40 - 50. Good men and women are attracted to their partners for more than just their looks and will not leave for something as insignificant as a prettier face.

 

They all lust after the 20somethings, though, and would cheat in a heartbeat if they had the opportunity, no two ways about it.

[Woggle]

They all lust after the 20somethings, though, and would cheat in a heartbeat if they had the opportunity, no two ways about it.

 

You know I like you but trust me when I say letting go of this negativity would do you a world of good. It sure is doing good for me.

[SushiX]

Women over 30+ boobs will start to sag. Avoid them unless you care about their personality.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Women over 30+ boobs will start to sag. Avoid them unless you care about their personality.

 

Saggy boobs might even have more personality!

[KungFuJoe]

My wife is 36 and I've been with her since she was 23 and I also sort of knew her in high school (we had some brief encounters but ran in different circles). I can honestly say, without a doubt, that she looks better now than back then. She always been very pretty (she was one of the best, if not the best, looking girls in our school at the time). But she had a bit of a chubby face, didn't really know what to do with her hair, or how to dress, etc. Now, she's gorgeous, classy, elegant, sexy...and still very very cute.

 

And her boobs don't sag. In fact, since she's been on Mirena (IUD) she went from a B cup to a C cup. So it's all good.

 

Oh...and she's had three kids.

[threebyfate]

At 25.00000000001 years old, women should throw in the towel. Nunneries need new nuns. Convents are dying all over the world. Do your share 25.0000000001 year old women!

[LittlePrince]

I was reading an article today about how, according to a national survey, women feel the most sexy at 28, and most confident at 32, and then confidence/sense of attraction for self begins to slide after that.

 

I hear very often-on forums, from comments said in the media and by guys around me (coworkers, friends, strangers)-that women are at "their best" in their early 20's, and by 30 have reached their peak and are no longer viable in the dating world.

 

I'm curious if this article changes any perspectives. I'm also curious to hear from other female posters... what age do you think you "peaked" at, in terms of feeling sexy and confident?

 

Do you also think there's an age where, if a woman has never been married, there's a good chance she won't be? Is there an age for women where dating becomes pointless? (For example, any woman over 30 might as well not bother according to the guys on this forum.)

 

Here's the article if you're curious: Women feel most attractive at 28 - Telegraph

By 60, women should probably start thinking about throwing in the baby making towel. It is just not that likely such a woman will have another child.

[LittlePrince]

At 25.00000000001 years old, women should throw in the towel. Nunneries need new nuns. Convents are dying all over the world. Do your share 25.0000000001 year old women!

Yes, who wants a nanosecond old Christmas cake? Not I.