Uncertain

July 25, 2012

Hello, thanks for listening.

I'm a 32 year old married mother of two. I met my husband at age 19, started dating him at 20, married at 23, first child by 25. I hadn't been with anyone else. A couple of years ago I started to wonder if I had skipped out on an important part of my life, if I had settled down too soon. I loved my husband, but wondered about alternate courses my life could have taken, other people I could have met, paths I could have taken. I felt unfulfilled.

Last fall I met someone online. He was my age, had a long-term live-in girlfriend, no kids. We had such a similar childhood, history, interests, personalities, it was overwhelming. We emailed non-stop for a week before meeting in person. He lives about two hours away. I found him incredibly attractive even though I recognized that conventionally he was probably closer to average. His personality, his insights, his perceptions thrilled me. He was everything, made my heart melt, made me feel shaky and thrilled. He was attracted to me too. We exchanged lots of over the top feelings about love, if only we would have met each other sooner, no one understands me the way you do, etc. His emails became the center of my universe.

We started meeting each other once a week, talking for a while, then making out like teenagers. After about 6 weeks, we had sex for the first time. After we had sex, I felt like he started to distance himself from me a bit. Not responding right away to emails, cancelling dates to see each other. But then he would write me an email saying something like, "I'm overwhelmed by the intense feelings I have for you, feeling a lot of anxiety about the future of our relationship. Please don't interpret my lack of emails as a cooling off of the feelings I have for you. I love you." So, I decided to give him space. Things got very weird for a while, I broke things off, then came back, he expressed that he was worried I expected too much from him, I told him I needed space to think, we didn't talk much for a month.

Eventually he started emailing me saying that he missed me and we decided to meet in person to talk. In meeting him, I thought we were going to pursue a friendship from that point forward. He seemed to assume making out was the route to reconciliation. I was upset/confused. Apparently he still wanted a romantic relationship, even told me he was in love with me, he just, I think, was scared that I was thinking of leaving my husband for him or something. I've maintained a (fake) take it or leave it attitude for the last three months and we've been together about once a month.

I know he loves me. I don't think he wants to leave his girlfriend and he doesn't want me to leave my husband. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to help me raise my two kids. What he wants, I think, is to continue our relationship as-is indefinitely, to go through our lives with the special secret knowledge that we love each other and to see each other (make love) about once a month. I'm not sure this works for me. I'm missing something significant in my relationship with my husband because of the lack of honesty. I don't feel the intimacy with my husband that I felt before because I know I am keeping something from him.

I spend way too much time thinking and fantasizing about my AP. I feel like I'm living in the moment only when I'm with him, wishing away the time until I can see him again.

Where do I go from here? Continue to take what I can get from him? Break it off completely? He affects me in a way no one ever has before. I feel powerless. I forgive him anything, I let him call the shots. I think he's made me feel better and worse than anyone ever has.

July 25, 2012

You have a decision to make.

A very simple decision really.

Which man do you wish to pursue?

Because, at least for me anyways, I cannot help you have an A. It's akin to "helping" a drug addict by given him/her more drugs.

So...are you looking for help in ending your A or ending your M?

July 25, 2012

Where do I go from here? Continue to take what I can get from him? Break it off completely? He affects me in a way no one ever has before. I feel powerless. I forgive him anything, I let him call the shots. I think he's made me feel better and worse than anyone ever has.

What's to forgive? Never give your power away, huge mistake.

Where do you go from here? That's entirely up to you. Have you considered allowing your husband to be awarded the same happiness you are experiencing? I mean, fairs fair, right?

July 25, 2012

You have a decision to make.
A very simple decision really.

Which man do you wish to pursue?

Because, at least for me anyways, I cannot help you have an A. It's akin to "helping" a drug addict by given him/her more drugs.

So...are you looking for help in ending your A or ending your M?

Thanks for the response. I'd like to keep both, but am not sure it's a good idea.

July 25, 2012

I like your realisation that what you're getting isn't enough. That puts you in a strong position for trying to work a path forward.

You also seem grounded enough to see that some of the relationship is affair chemistry, you're getting excitement you've been lacking at home, as opposed to you're blown away by a man so wonderful and amazing...

A word of caution... If your affair partner said 'come on then, let's build a life together!' would you leave your husband?

*I* read your post like this: "I want more in my life, ideally with my husband, how do I do that?"

Would that sound right to you?

July 25, 2012

What's to forgive? Never give your power away, huge mistake.

Where do you go from here? That's entirely up to you. Have you considered allowing your husband to be awarded the same happiness you are experiencing? I mean, fairs fair, right?

Thanks for your response. I have suggested to my husband that we pursue an open relationship. I would not be bothered by him sleeping with someone else as long as it was done safely. He said he's not interested. His sex drive has been pretty low lately, I don't think he's yearning for a new romantic interest.

"Never give your power away" made me think. Over my adult life, I've been pretty confident, pretty self-assured. I'm not happy with the person I've become lately.

Anyway, thanks.

July 25, 2012

I like your realisation that what you're getting isn't enough. That puts you in a strong position for trying to work a path forward.

You also seem grounded enough to see that some of the relationship is affair chemistry, you're getting excitement you've been lacking at home, as opposed to you're blown away by a man so wonderful and amazing...

A word of caution... If your affair partner said 'come on then, let's build a life together!' would you leave your husband?

*I* read your post like this: "I want more in my life, ideally with my husband, how do I do that?"

Would that sound right to you?

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Yes, I think you got it right.

I don't think I'd leave my husband if my AP asked me to. I love my husband and we have a good life together. I also don't think my AP represents a better life for me.

I guess my question boils down to this - "Is there any way to rebuild a close, intimate relationship with my husband while continuing a sporadic relationship with my AP?" Has this ever worked for anyone? I don't want to let him go, but think I might need to in order to move forward.

July 25, 2012

Thanks for your response. I have suggested to my husband that we pursue an open relationship. I would not be bothered by him sleeping with someone else as long as it was done safely. He said he's not interested. His sex drive has been pretty low lately, I don't think he's yearning for a new romantic interest.

"Never give your power away" made me think. Over my adult life, I've been pretty confident, pretty self-assured. I'm not happy with the person I've become lately.

Anyway, thanks.

Did you make that suggestion while hiding your affair from your H? I am in an open M, know others in open M, and I think they require even more openness and honesty to succeed than a more conventional M. Starting an open M based on lies and deception would be one of the messiest ways to move toward divorce, imo. I think trying to maintain deception over years, in any case, is likely a move toward divorce but it could take a decade or more, and for all that time one has a less than satisfying M. Have you thought about divorcing and is there some reason you don't think that would be preferable than having to maintain the deception at home? Or does the deception not bother you?

July 25, 2012

I guess my question boils down to this - "Is there any way to rebuild a close, intimate relationship with my husband while continuing a sporadic relationship with my AP?"

Yes. This IS possible.

However, for an open to exist the M must have impeccable communication, openness and honesty. An A is possessive of none of those.

Which means....you need to inform your H of your intent and desire to seek sexual partners outside the M. And that he is free to do the same.

Ground rules need to be established and adhered to.

And yes, people in open M's can and sometimes do cheat.

Has this ever worked for anyone? I don't want to let him go, but think I might need to in order to move forward.

We have posters here on LS who practice polyamory.

And I think my above is accurate.

Yes, open M's CAN and DO work.

So, I guess it's time for you to have a conversation with your H...

July 25, 2012

Here is the visual.

You're on top of a cliff and at the edge holding two people, one in each hand. You try hard to save the both of them but you can't. You start to slide and fall yourself. In your left hand is your AP, in your right hand is your husband. Both of them begin to slip, you must let one of them go to save one. Who do you let go of?

Note: You cannot use the factor of having children with your husband be a part in your decision. Start there.

July 25, 2012

Did you make that suggestion while hiding your affair from your H? I am in an open M, know others in open M, and I think they require even more openness and honesty to succeed than a more conventional M. Starting an open M based on lies and deception would be one of the messiest ways to move toward divorce, imo. I think trying to maintain deception over years, in any case, is likely a move toward divorce but it could take a decade or more, and for all that time one has a less than satisfying M. Have you thought about divorcing and is there some reason you don't think that would be preferable than having to maintain the deception at home? Or does the deception not bother you?

Yes, I did. I see what you are saying. I don't know a lot about open marriages to be honest. I just knew I loved two people and I was ok with my husband having sex with someone else. I think it was an attempt to not feel guilty.

I don't really want to get divorced. I love my husband. He's a wonderful father, he's a good friend. Even if I ended up with my AP, I'd miss my husband if we divorced. I guess what I really want is two lives - one to live with each of them. I'm frustrated with myself that I let myself get into this emotional position.

Thanks for your point of view.

July 25, 2012

Yes. This IS possible.
However, for an open to exist the M must have impeccable communication, openness and honesty. An A is possessive of none of those.

Which means....you need to inform your H of your intent and desire to seek sexual partners outside the M. And that he is free to do the same.

Ground rules need to be established and adhered to.

And yes, people in open M's can and sometimes do cheat.

We have posters here on LS who practice polyamory.
And I think my above is accurate.

Yes, open M's CAN and DO work.

So, I guess it's time for you to have a conversation with your H...

Thank you for your insight. I don't think my husband will be open to this idea, although I would be. Reading my own posts, reading the feedback, I am starting to see that my relationship with my AP is probably not healthy right now. And my marriage is good, but needs some work.

July 25, 2012

Here is the visual.

You're on top of a cliff and at the edge holding two people, one in each hand. You try hard to save the both of them but you can't. You start to slide and fall yourself. In your left hand is your AP, in your right hand is your husband. Both of them begin to slip, you must let one of them go to save one. Who do you let go of?

Note: You cannot use the factor of having children with your husband be a part in your decision. Start there.

Interesting idea. I can't imagine letting go of my husband.

July 25, 2012

I guess my question boils down to this - "Is there any way to rebuild a close, intimate relationship with my husband while continuing a sporadic relationship with my AP?" Has this ever worked for anyone? I don't want to let him go, but think I might need to in order to move forward.

I don't know of anyone who has done this with deception and haven't read any stories here or elsewhere that have been successful.

I have had a close emotional and physical relationship outside of my M while maintaining a close, intimate R with my H. But we agreed to this lifestyle before we married, it was part of our M vows, things are discussed in advance, during and after, with nothing hidden or minimized. Throw any deception into the mix and it is a whole different matter. I'm not sure how one could have full intimacy without exposing oneself fully.

I'd say to get from where you are now to even the beginning of an open M that might work would take several years, maybe more, and maybe you would divorce before you got there. If you don't want to ever tell your H the truth, I'd stay away from any idea of an open M, and see what you can do within the confines of a supposedly monogamous M. I think many (essentially all?) people who have cheated and don't confess, but stay married to the same person they cheated on, go on to cheat again. Overall, it is estimated that 2/3 of people who cheat will cheat again, and I think it is extremely difficult to be part of that 1/3 who don't cheat unless you either start telling the truth or divorce.

Of course, many people involved in secret affairs hope to one of a special few percent, so the fact that others don't succeed with staying married, being monogamous, being intimate, passionate and satisfied, while continuing to hide their past infidelity, may not deter you.

July 25, 2012

I don't know of anyone who has done this with deception and haven't read any stories here or elsewhere that have been successful.

I have had a close emotional and physical relationship outside of my M while maintaining a close, intimate R with my H. But we agreed to this lifestyle before we married, it was part of our M vows, things are discussed in advance, during and after, with nothing hidden or minimized. Throw any deception into the mix and it is a whole different matter. I'm not sure how one could have full intimacy without exposing oneself fully.

I'd say to get from where you are now to even the beginning of an open M that might work would take several years, maybe more, and maybe you would divorce before you got there. If you don't want to ever tell your H the truth, I'd stay away from any idea of an open M, and see what you can do within the confines of a supposedly monogamous M. I think many (essentially all?) people who have cheated and don't confess, but stay married to the same person they cheated on, go on to cheat again. Overall, it is estimated that 2/3 of people who cheat will cheat again, and I think it is extremely difficult to be part of that 1/3 who don't cheat unless you either start telling the truth or divorce.

Of course, many people involved in secret affairs hope to one of a special few percent, so the fact that others don't succeed with staying married, being monogamous, being intimate, passionate and satisfied, while continuing to hide their past infidelity, may not deter you.

I really appreciate your perspective.

I don't think I knew myself well when I married my husband. I came from a religious background and assumed I would have one sexual partner for life. I now feel that an honest non-monogamous relationship might be a good fit for me. My husband, on the other hand, signed up for monogamy and that's what he wants to stick with.

I don't have the idea that making my AP my new monogamous partner will finally make me "happy". I think I will always want to meet new people, possibly have new partners. My AP feels the same way.

I don't want to break up my family or hurt my husband.

I guess I'm just confused right now. I appreciate your time. Thanks.

July 26, 2012

Yes, I did. I see what you are saying. I don't know a lot about open marriages to be honest. I just knew I loved two people and I was ok with my husband having sex with someone else. I think it was an attempt to not feel guilty.

I don't really want to get divorced. I love my husband. He's a wonderful father, he's a good friend. Even if I ended up with my AP, I'd miss my husband if we divorced. I guess what I really want is two lives - one to live with each of them. I'm frustrated with myself that I let myself get into this emotional position.

Thanks for your point of view.

Obviously you know this, but it just doesn't work that way. You have to make a choice. It would be one thing if your H was up for an open marriage, but you say he's not.

The impression I get from reading your posts is that you're fond of your H and you care about him, but you don't really want to stay in your M as it currently stands. You're young -- do you really want to stay in something unfulfilling for decades to come? Always looking for something else? How is that fair to you, your H, or any future APs?

Or if I'm misreading you, and you really don't want to divorce because you're truly in love with him and that's the relationship you want to be in, then recommit to that. But you really need to decide and move past this "best of both worlds" idea...

July 26, 2012

Oh, please.

Poster is atypical cake eater.

Her H is her pillar and she loves him, but she wants a fresh piece of meat to have sex with.

She also needs external validation and OMs are very good at that.

If she was single she could ask H for a divorce, but i suspect she is not different than her OM with a GF. OM refuses to leave the GF.

These two are made for each other and have no spine.

Maybe you could start your own thread?

July 26, 2012

You are investigating every possible avenue in order to keep your OM.

Probably the most destructive thing would be to suggest an open marriage to your husband. The poor man would probably choke.

Instead of all this... would it not be easier to work on your marriage and make your husband the man in your life. I don't know what kind of marriage you have , but if you are not happy... leave. Don't try to put a bandaid on a massive wound and hurt other people in the process.

The MM I was involved investigated all those ideas with me, including me getting into a new relationship or marriage and keeping him on the side.

He called it working around his 'pile of **** , read marriage'. It was simply unapalatable and tacky. Needless to say, he is xMM.

July 26, 2012

I really appreciate your perspective.

I don't think I knew myself well when I married my husband. I came from a religious background and assumed I would have one sexual partner for life. I now feel that an honest non-monogamous relationship might be a good fit for me. My husband, on the other hand, signed up for monogamy and that's what he wants to stick with.

I don't have the idea that making my AP my new monogamous partner will finally make me "happy". I think I will always want to meet new people, possibly have new partners. My AP feels the same way.

I don't want to break up my family or hurt my husband.

I guess I'm just confused right now. I appreciate your time. Thanks.

Counselling can help you with your confusion and help you sort out the type of person you want to be and the life you want to live. As for the bolded - wanting an honest and non-monogamous R - I would suggest starting with the first part, that is honesty. Given the life you have been living, that part will be very difficult and will take some real internal work.

Do you really want to change? That is not a rhetorical question.

Dishonesty puts more power in your own hands, allows you to put your own needs above others, basically ignoring their needs if you choose, and sometimes to minimize or delay the consequences of that. Honesty allows you to share a deeper and more intimate connection, and if you care about how you treat others, it can allow you to love yourself more, which frees you to love others even more. Personally, I think the joy one finds in an honest life wins hands down, but many seem to choose dishonesty.

July 26, 2012

Instead of all this... would it not be easier to work on your marriage and make your husband the man in your life. I don't know what kind of marriage you have , but if you are not happy... leave. Don't try to put a bandaid on a massive wound and hurt other people in the process.

Yes, it probably would be and I've been trying to do that, just been unwilling to give up the other guy completely. I've gotten myself into a difficult emotional situation and will probably just have to buckle down, break up with my AP, and be sad for a while in order to get through it.

Part of me was hoping I could improve my marriage, but still keep this little secret for myself. Selfish, I know. It's not working.

There is nothing major wrong with my marriage. Just the stress of providing for two kids, parenting, keeping up a house, shopping for groceries, etc. With the other guy, we talk about literature and make love. I'm not so deluded as to think that's what my daily life would be like with him.

July 26, 2012

Obviously you know this, but it just doesn't work that way. You have to make a choice. It would be one thing if your H was up for an open marriage, but you say he's not.

The impression I get from reading your posts is that you're fond of your H and you care about him, but you don't really want to stay in your M as it currently stands. You're young -- do you really want to stay in something unfulfilling for decades to come? Always looking for something else? How is that fair to you, your H, or any future APs?

Or if I'm misreading you, and you really don't want to divorce because you're truly in love with him and that's the relationship you want to be in, then recommit to that. But you really need to decide and move past this "best of both worlds" idea...

I used to be truly in love with him, now he's more of a friend. I'd like to fall in love with my husband again. That would be ideal.

You're right, best of both worlds doesn't seem to work.

July 26, 2012

Counselling can help you with your confusion and help you sort out the type of person you want to be and the life you want to live. As for the bolded - wanting an honest and non-monogamous R - I would suggest starting with the first part, that is honesty. Given the life you have been living, that part will be very difficult and will take some real internal work.

Do you really want to change? That is not a rhetorical question.

Dishonesty puts more power in your own hands, allows you to put your own needs above others, basically ignoring their needs if you choose, and sometimes to minimize or delay the consequences of that. Honesty allows you to share a deeper and more intimate connection, and if you care about how you treat others, it can allow you to love yourself more, which frees you to love others even more. Personally, I think the joy one finds in an honest life wins hands down, but many seem to choose dishonesty.

I think I want to change. I have made a counselling appointment for next week. Hopefully I can get some of these issues worked out.

What I'm doing right now is not working and I think my husband and kids deserve better.

Thanks for taking the time to give your advice, I appreciate it.

July 26, 2012

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for your feedback on my situation. I appreciate your time and this venue. Have a nice day.

July 26, 2012

Here's my suggestion...since you're not sure which man to choose...why not tell your H the truth about the situation your marriage is in right now?

Give HIM that same choice option that you face.

He may ask you to recommit to the marriage.

Or he may end the marriage for you...freeing you to be with OM.

But...why deny him the same choice that you're facing? Why NOT tell him the truth and let him make his own choice?

July 26, 2012

Here's my suggestion...since you're not sure which man to choose...why not tell your H the truth about the situation your marriage is in right now?

Give HIM that same choice option that you face.

He may ask you to recommit to the marriage.

Or he may end the marriage for you...freeing you to be with OM.

But...why deny him the same choice that you're facing? Why NOT tell him the truth and let him make his own choice?

As much as I like this advice, I fear it will not be received well.....

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