Ready to call it quits after 17 years

[BrokenBike]

Hello. My first post here. I am upset and I apologize if this post rambles.

 

I am a 46 year old male and I am seriously contemplating leaving my spouse. She is three years older than me. We've had a good marriage throughout most of the early years, but I've become more and more detached from this relationship over the last five years. I am trying to do some soul searching right now - I have made an appointment to see a MC tomorrow (I am going alone and on my own volition) but I have also retained a family law attorney.

 

My spouse has declared she is not interested in seeing a counselor because she "doesn't feel comfortable talking to strangers about personal problems". I will attend the counseling - but my thoughts for the counselor are "I am coming to you for counsel to make sure I am thinking clearly here, have you ask me some hard questions, and prepare me for getting through this and put me on the best path for myself.

 

I recall my thoughts at the time I was engaged to her - that this was a life-long commitment and I really felt it should be for a "better or worse" proposition. Now I am feeling guilt for deciding years later that maybe I was wrong and that "life is too short". I am beginning to believe that our differences now outweigh our commonalities - that we are each now too set in our ways - and that the future no longer looks like one that holds any appeal to me.

 

I could give you a laundry list of all my complaints about her now - but that feels like unnecessary ranting at this moment. Nor do I think it would be fair to drag out all the dirty laundry without giving all of you the proper perspective of laying out my own faults as well. I could see this post getting huge if I were to start talking about it.

 

The abridged version of this is that I feel like things fell apart shortly after her father passed away five years ago. Her parents had a life-long, Catholic, but loveless marriage. During my time knowing her parents, I never saw them kiss nor hold hands. For that matter, my spouse has not seen them display any physical affection towards one another either. Soon after her father died, another woman approached my spouse at her place of employment and identified herself as her father's "friend" (You could read that as 'mistress' but I am not sure their relationship was a sexual one - he was ill with prostate cancer at the time). I think this revelation cut deeply into my spouse. I feel like these last few years, we've become very much like her parents - absent of physical affection - walking around resentful over one another - despite otherwise keeping up good outward appearances.

 

Me? I feel I "checked out" of this marriage emotionally a few years ago. There is more to it than what is listed above. I've become very introverted - she's lost me to the online world or video games - aside from the hobby of motorcycling we don't have very much in common we like to do together anymore. I am not leaving her for anyone - I will need to go setup camp on my own if we part ways. To some degree, we're better off than most in that respect - no children, no debts. I don't make great money, but she makes less than half what I do. Still, from what I can tell - financially divorce is horrible. I've oft heard the phrase "It's cheaper to keep her" and while that is probably true so is "there is more to life than money".

 

She knows I have talked to a lawyer. She knows I am going to see a counselor. She is not communicating much beyond the terse, civil exchanges and she is mostly staying out late and away with other friends most of the time. Her being out until midnight the other night should bother me, but I confess - it doesn't.

 

What I am hoping from the forum is this: You ask me the hard questions - force me to be sure I am thinking about what I need to be thinking about.

 

Any thoughts, anyone?

Thank you for reading....

[jmjacobs31]

It seems she has given up too. If she knows you've spoken to a lawyer and are going to are a counselor and that doesn't effect her then what does that say about how she feel abljt you and your marriage. I would have given anything for my ez to agree to counseling. You're doing the right thing by going to MC though. It Will help u get house thoughts together..

[dreamingoftigers]

Sounds like both of you left the building awhile ago.

 

No MC?

 

With her father's death, I assume there was a bunch lacking after that. She was emotional, you withdrew etc. They say to wait 18 months after the death of a parent if you want to divorce because the wheels often fall off the cart at that point.

 

But, if no MC, probably better to get it done quickly unless either one of you has a spiritual investment that you would like to keep and nurture.

 

A spiritual foundation can help restore a marriage to happiness.

[worldgonewrong]

A spiritual foundation can help restore a marriage to happiness.

 

I believe this with all my heart & soul.

That said, I also believe that my wife has become almost demonic. It's out of my hands and in God's.

[Forever Learning]

Good idea to go to the marriage counseling, or even individual counseling if she won't go. It's great to have a sounding board to talk through things and help sort out which way to go.

 

I divorced after 16 years. It's been the best thing I ever did!! Wish I hadn't stayed in a bad relationship the years I did!! But, that's in the past now. I was unhappy with the relationship, most of those 16 years. I stayed around for very dumb reasons, mostly low self esteem and low self confidence. And, I thought he might change and/or I could change him. But, that doesn't usually happen.

 

I went to marriage counseling for 2 years, by myself. He finally went a few times under threat of divorce. He used the same excuse your wife is using. It's a stall tactic. She doesn't want you to leave for financial reasons. She's going to have a tough road to hoe financially without you. The reason my ex stalled on the divorce and fed me more lies was he was wanting to avoid divorcing, having to find another place to live, and pay child support. That's all it was.

 

The reason I went to the marriage counseling for 2 years is, it was a Christian counselor who didn't believe in divorce.

 

Had it been any other counselor, they would have told me to file divorce much sooner!! And, I should have!! So, bad idea to go to the Christian marriage counselor. He just milked me for my money for 2 years, in my opinion. He didn't help alot, but at least it was someone to talk to at the time. Better than nothing.

 

Let's see. My parents have been together 50 years, for religious reasons I suppose and/or financial reasons, like your wife's parents. And like your wife's parents, it's an unhappy marriage. No touching (I saw them touch once in the 1970's, either a kiss or hug, can't recall - I was in 3rd grade, and I don't remember what that was all about), separate bedrooms for decades, terse communication, rudeness, sullenness, unhappiness.

 

Brother, life is too short for all that. If she won't go to counseling and your unhappy, get a divorce. I just can't express to you how much happier my life is since I divorced and moved on. And guess what? Being single is awesome too! So is dating! It's alot of fun. Don't be scared of it. You will meet wonderful folks and have a great life. Don't be afraid of that. All the best to you.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Forever Learning

[BrokenBike]

Thank you kindly for all your replies.

 

What if I said "I don't hate her"? There isn't any one thing that occurred that brought this on - it is the cumulative collection of a lot of the little things. Many of them things that I have spoken up about - and yet those things just don't ever change and I have lost faith that they ever will. Things like trying to have a meaningful conversation with her - I will begin speaking and then she will interrupt me and go on a five minute monologue that may start on the topic at hand, but then it drifts off into a discussion about something else, and the way information gets explained is never in summary form but instead a quoted replay of the conversation in the form of "So I said....xxxxx....and she was like....xxxxxxxx....and then I said....xxxxxxx". Or what about house cleaning? Trust me, I am NOT a neat freak - but my spouse is overkill in the accumulated possessions department. I realize guys will never understand the shoes thing - but it is my position that if you buy the shoes and clothes, it is your responsibility to wash, fold, and put them away. Granted, she buys me things too - but it is always because "It looked cool and it was such a good price." Well, fine, thank you - but we don't have enough storage space to actually put away all the clothes you've purchased now. I know that when she's gone away on vacations I have had these marathon laundry sessions to try and get everything clean and put away - I get it done - but it goes back to how things were before in about a week. I like to cook - but gosh it is nice if I can start with a clean place to work and not have to shove away this weeks latest bargains from the discount food place. Cupboards and refrigerator with really no room to put anything, only two people in the house and "there is nothing to eat in here?" OK....I am done venting for now....but those are things that I would really want resolved - and is it too much to ask for that? To expect someone to sit down and discuss the responsibilities of "having stuff" or at least a strategy to get rid of it? The solution is NOT a bigger home. That would just result in a bigger pile of stuff. I would be more than happy to call a disposal service and fill a dumpster all by myself - but then she'll flip. Oddly, one place I've had at least some success is letting her either donate the items or have a garage sale - and I am thinking it is because those avenues at least allow (in her mind) the items to still have value - where when I toss them, I am declaring them as junk and/or worthless. No idea why that matters, but it seems to.

 

So, I just spouted off about her - but I ask replies to point back at me - am I out of line? Am I being unreasonable? Is this trivial stuff?

[Forever Learning]

Thank you kindly for all your replies.

 

What if I said "I don't hate her"? There isn't any one thing that occurred that brought this on - it is the cumulative collection of a lot of the little things. Many of them things that I have spoken up about - and yet those things just don't ever change and I have lost faith that they ever will. Things like trying to have a meaningful conversation with her - I will begin speaking and then she will interrupt me and go on a five minute monologue that may start on the topic at hand, but then it drifts off into a discussion about something else, and the way information gets explained is never in summary form but instead a quoted replay of the conversation in the form of "So I said....xxxxx....and she was like....xxxxxxxx....and then I said....xxxxxxx". Or what about house cleaning? Trust me, I am NOT a neat freak - but my spouse is overkill in the accumulated possessions department. I realize guys will never understand the shoes thing - but it is my position that if you buy the shoes and clothes, it is your responsibility to wash, fold, and put them away. Granted, she buys me things too - but it is always because "It looked cool and it was such a good price." Well, fine, thank you - but we don't have enough storage space to actually put away all the clothes you've purchased now. I know that when she's gone away on vacations I have had these marathon laundry sessions to try and get everything clean and put away - I get it done - but it goes back to how things were before in about a week. I like to cook - but gosh it is nice if I can start with a clean place to work and not have to shove away this weeks latest bargains from the discount food place. Cupboards and refrigerator with really no room to put anything, only two people in the house and "there is nothing to eat in here?" OK....I am done venting for now....but those are things that I would really want resolved - and is it too much to ask for that? To expect someone to sit down and discuss the responsibilities of "having stuff" or at least a strategy to get rid of it? The solution is NOT a bigger home. That would just result in a bigger pile of stuff. I would be more than happy to call a disposal service and fill a dumpster all by myself - but then she'll flip. Oddly, one place I've had at least some success is letting her either donate the items or have a garage sale - and I am thinking it is because those avenues at least allow (in her mind) the items to still have value - where when I toss them, I am declaring them as junk and/or worthless. No idea why that matters, but it seems to.

 

So, I just spouted off about her - but I ask replies to point back at me - am I out of line? Am I being unreasonable? Is this trivial stuff?

 

If it's mostly about these type issues, I think you need to insist that you guys seek marriage counseling, so there is a person to act as a mediator and guide you through these issues, and so you can vent AND BE HEARD BY HER. Good luck!

[BrokenBike]

There are more issues than that - and I suppose I need to put them out there to really get the advice I seek. Like everyone else, we came to our marriage with the baggage of our lives from before.

 

In my case, I grew up with my mother and grandfather. I was raised thinking my father had been killed in the Viet Nam war. It wasn't until I was going through treatment at age 20 that I learned that this story was fabricated. My father was in fact not a good man. I was conceived in an instance of date rape and my mother never really reconnected with any men. A few dates, but no real relationships. Grandfather died when I was 11 - as far as male role models, that was it I guess.

 

My spouse's first "sexual" encounter was also rape. It was an instance where she was drugged with a muscle relaxant and taken advantage of. I spoke before of her parent's relationship. In the staunch way they deal with things, she never ever spoke to either parent about this event happening to her. An even sadder part I hate mentioning, but this is a product of a household where sex is not discussed openly is that she throughout the first several years of our marriage had me believing that she had become pregnant as a result of this encounter and had an abortion - this being strictly against her Catholic upbringing of course. Please don't make fun of her in any replies, but it was not until I was questioning her about some health issues that I had asked her which hospital she had the abortion performed in. She explained to me in all sincerity that "they did it at the police station." I had to explain to her that it doesn't work that way.

 

The health issues that brought that question up were when we were seeing a fertility specialist. We've been through three miscarriages together. She did nothing wrong during any of the pregnancies, taking good care of herself and even being very good about staying on bed rest for several weeks when the doctor ordered it. Despite her best efforts, we lost three. The last one happened the latest, I think around 14 weeks. It happened at home very quickly - those of you that have been through such an event are the ones that probably understand it best. The reason offered for these events is that she has a bicorneate "Y shaped" uterus. It is one of those things that just "is" and I don't blame her for it, obviously. And truth be told I am OK with not having children - I was always pretty ambivalent about it. But after the third loss, considering both the probabilities of miscarriage again coupled with her age and risk of Down's - I became wary of sex and for the last two years now the marriage has been sexless.

 

Candidly speaking, I also became more withdrawn and less affectionate towards her. I guess I have to lay more of the blame for that on me.

 

Anyway, I wanted to put these down here because after reading my previous post - I felt like it was trivial things (even though trivial things have a tendency to add up over time too) that I was complaining about. But there are deeper things in play here. I doubt anyone's advice would change - MC likely a good idea for facing such issues. Still, I am not convinced she would be willing to endure the "work" part of that sort of healing. I am very scared that trying to work through this would be exactly as described in Forever's reply - a few more years trying to save something only to still have it fold.

 

*side note* I don't know how I blew it - but I got confused about the appointment date for my individual counseling - now I am rescheduled for a week from now. I will make it for sure next time - but man - I have done that twice in the last month, also forgetting a dental appointment. Emotions? I hope so...worried I am losing my mind.

[Gunny376]

From what you posted it would seem to me that your basically dealing with the sundry issues that affect any and all marriages ~ at some point in time and / or the other. That is to say ~ to coin a phrase ~ marital atrophy where in a couple's relationship has become stale, boring, routine, and the day-to-day holdrum is accepted as the status quo.

 

That this is all there is to marriage ~ life and this is all that there ever will be. Just more of the same day-to-day "ho-hum"

 

It also sounds as though neither of you have yet to achieved individual actualizatoin ~ a common thing when you marry young, not having the necessary time to fully mature as individuals. Its not an easy thing to do when your part of a couple and as I said married so young.

 

Part of self actualzation aka "finding yourself" envolves going through the list of things that you've been exposed to through out the course of your life. It could be simple things such as family cliches, lessons from one's parents, grandparents, siblings, extended families, cultural, societial and religious influences.

 

People are predisposed to err to their family, societial, cultural, religious "up-bringing ~ when the simple fact of the matter is that much of it may no longer be applicable at the current stage of life that you find yourself in your day to day.

 

There seems to be a great deal of guilt, depression and anxiety in your relationship. There also seems to be a lot of adherence to rigority and routine ~ especially the DW. And there's no doubt that there are un-resolived issues from the past.

 

People tend to dwell in the past or in the future. Doing so creates depression (dwelling in the past ~ vents as pented up anger in most men) and anxiety in dwelling in the future. Few people actually ground themselves in the present. Which is exactally where we need to be.

 

Yesteday is a canceled check. Tomorrow is nothing more than a promissary note ~ while the present is cash in hand!

 

Divorcing isn't the solution ~ especially when you already have the history that you have with the DW. I'm not sure that MC is the answer. Personally I believe that when it comes to MC, that the DH should pay for the first session, while the DW should pay for the second session ~ or that the DH should pay for the first half of the MC sessions and the DW should pay for the second half.

 

In doing so you will come to the realization that MC is pretty damned expensive, a complete and total waste of time, effort, energy, and money ~ accomplishes little if anything.

 

And that what is truly needed is for both of you to quit being so damned silly about all of this nonesense, sit down and for the first damned time in a long time communicate and actually discuss the issues at hand.

 

Before you can do that you need to learn how to communicate. And learn to understanding and appreciate the differences between how men and women communicate differently. Men communicate in and for the most part directly while women tend to communicate indirectly and to be very long and drawn out ~ very graphic.

 

And excellent reference source, (Currently on sale in the August 2012 edition) is Scientific America's "His Brain, Her Brain ~ How We're Different"

I believe that you will find it a true eye opener. Another source is the book, "Brain Sex"

 

In learning to understand and appreciate the differences in how men and women communicate differently ~ I would suggest you read GenderSpeak", "You Just Don't Understand" and "Why Men Don't Have A Clue And Women Nee0d Another Pair of Shoes."

 

Ten to twenty thousand years ago ~ we were pretty much "Hunters and Gathers" with men being the hunters and women the gathers. When your a hunter? You don't tend to speak to much less you scare away the prey your hunting, you rely on spacial perception, stealthiness, etc. Many of the traits that are attributed to your atypical male.

 

While the gathers have to have a different skill/tool set. Vision is important as is a sense of smell, (Women atypically tend to have 10,000 ofactory cells in their nostrials than men ~ which women typically have a greater sense and appreciation of smells and aromas). Much mosre graphic and detailed conversation is necessiated ~ so as to pick and choose the best, ripest, most ediblie (and less deadly) fruits and vegetbales.

 

These traits are pretty much hard-wired into men and women. Flash forward 10 or 20 thousand years later into 2012 and you can see the modern day co-relation to that of 10 or 20 thousand years ago. Women just love to shop, buy clothes, shoes, etc when they don't even need them. Most "Hoarders" tend to be women more so than men.

 

Men typcially are drawn toward Sports, which if you think about it? In watching a face paced ~ fast moving ball game, (football, soccer, basketball) is much akin to what one would do in watching a fast moving deer, gazelle, antelope, etc. Ditto with men's draw and even addiction toward video games. Much like a domesticated cats fascination with fast moving and darting images.

 

For a greater appreciation read "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex, and Women Don't Get Enough Love" and again "Why Men Don't Have A Clue And Women Need Another Pair of Shoes"

 

Love that is to say rommantic love is a cultural and social construct which as we know it in this day and age only came about since the middle ages and mostly during the Renissance. Prior to that most marriages (also pretty much a social and cultrual construct) was a relationship of necessity and co-dependence for day-to-day survival. Offspring ~ children ~ especially males ~ were then the equivalent of modern day Social Security. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

A couple being in love ~ really is nothing more than a temporary influx of bio-chemicals in the brain, which doesn't last more than a couple of years at best. About the time that it takes to concieve a child, and for that child to become moderately self sufficent in learning how to walk, talk, feed itself, clean itself etc. After that? You'd best have something solid and concerete to replace "true love" Brain scans of couples "in love" are almost identical to people who suffer from obessive-compulive disorders. (February 2006 edition of National Geographic Magazine "Love ~ The Chemical Reaction"

 

With the above information in hand ~ you can then begin to "retrain your brain" and set to the task of discarding old myths, fallacies, cliches, etc that simple don't work and are no longer applicable in your life. You can then set to the task of turing your attention to acquiring the necessary tools and skill set to accentuate the positive rather than the negative. You will begin to be able turn the negative into a postive by stopping and redirecting yourself from your old perspective and attitude to one that is born in the light of your new found knowledge and wisdom that you simply didn't have before.

 

If you do divorce your wife? Without going through the pain of re-training your brain, without acquiring a new perpective, attitude, and necessary tools and skills? Your only destined to repeat with someone else that which you currently find yourself.

 

ONE of the definitions of insanity is to repeatedly doing the same thing over and over and over ~ all the while expecting different results.

 

Happiness is relative and its not the responsiblity of someone else to make you happy~ that's your job and responsibility. The simple truth of the matter is? Most people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be.

 

You can't change someone else ~ just not possible. But you can change yourself ~ and when you do? You will find that others, not just your wife will change. Its NOT your wife that needs changing its YOU! And when you change, when you change your attitude, when you change your perspective, when you choose to see things in a different light, it is then when you will see changes in her.

 

Rather than being a optimist that sees the glass as half full? Or a pestimist that sees the glass as half empty? Concentrate and focus on how you can fill the damned glass up ~ and when you do that? Your cup will run over with plenty for you and her!

 

You don't want a divorce if you did? You wouldn't be posting here, and you wouldn't be pissing good money, time, effort and energy away on seeing an IC or MC.

 

Get Ellen Kreidman's "Light Your Fire" "Light Her Fire (For you) and "Light His Fire" (For her) audio programs. And I would strongly suggest you get the MidWest Center's "Attacking Anxiety And Depression" audo program. These programs are about re-training your brain, your thinkinkg, your attitude, your persepctive. They will give you the tools and the skills sets to communicating , arguing constructively, getting back to the basics of being in a relationship, a marriage.

 

You can eiether quit running, not learn the lessons at hand? Are you can keep on doing what you've been doing, gettng the same results. Years from now instead of enjoying your "Golden Years" with your Best Friend, your Mate, Your Wife, Your................................

 

You can sit around at the Old Folks home in the rocker on the front porch talking about your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and even your 6th x-wife. Old, mad, bitter, resntfull, filled with hate.

[BrokenBike]

 

It also sounds as though neither of you have yet to achieved individual actualizatoin ~ a common thing when you marry young, not having the necessary time to fully mature as individuals. Its not an easy thing to do when your part of a couple and as I said married so young.

 

Epic reply Gunny, thank you. Though I do wish to clarify that I was 28 and she was 31 when we married. Not thinking that is terribly young. That aside, you leave me many good points to contemplate. Again, thank you.

[Gunny376]

Epic reply Gunny, thank you. Though I do wish to clarify that I was 28 and she was 31 when we married. Not thinking that is terribly young. That aside, you leave me many good points to contemplate. Again, thank you.

 

:laugh: :laugh: You will be amazed in the yeasrs lying ahead in looking back at just HOW YOUNG being 28 and 31 is relative to being in your say age 55 por so.........

 

Especially when your 55 and you look at all of the "teenagers" in thie twenties ~ thirties. As in most things? Its all releative! Its all a matter of persepctive and one's attitude toward any given situation.

 

Take two stay-at-home mom's? One has been a stay a stay-at-home mom for all of her life, and when the last of her children leave the nest she suffers terribly from "empty-nest" syndrone, is literally lost. She's lost her idenity of who she is as a person, an individual, a woman, a Mom,.....................

 

While her next door neighbor, also a SAHM, is over the moon with the prospect of her last child leaving. Now she has the freedom and time to pursue all of her interest, hobbies, etc. Now she can pursue her dreams, go back to school, take flower arranging classes, join this club or that. All of the things in and of her life.

 

A job lost is another example. While many would find such devasting and ruinious, another looks upon it as an opportunity to leave a job that was low-paying, dead-end, going no where, etc. Now he can pursue his dream job, having been freed from working as a slave wage.

 

Its all a matter of perspecitive, attitude ~ and key to that is recognizing that your perspective and attitude maybe ~ could be ~ just possibly be the wrong perspective and attitude (Hint ~ if it accentuates the negative? Its probally the wrong perspectiv and attitude! And you need to pull back and re-group.

 

Pride is a big relationship killer. There are actually three entities in most relationship. (For discussion purpores I will contain this to "marriage-type" relationships) There's you, her, and the enitity of "US"

 

Pride is a "mother-trucker" when it comes to the "us" entity, because we have a natural tendency to put "I" before "us" If and when we concentrate on being a team ~ the "Us" of a relatonship, then it solves the "I" part of the equation.

 

Interestingly if you may or may not have noticed? But there's no 'I' in the word "Team"

 

Is all of this easy? Absolutely not, and it most often necessitates "Re-training" your brain, getting rid of silly notions and concepts as to how things are suppose to be and how we were raised.

 

It can be scary and more than a little intimidating when trying something new. Your out there on your own in un-chartered terrority ~ waters without a safety net.

 

The task(s) at hand can seem overwhelming. In the course of human endevors, there's the equation of 'E = r" In which E equals a tremendous amount of effort in the beginning which nets r , that is say very little if any results.

 

With some time, practice, and effort? The equation flips and becomes "e = R" in which it takes very little effort that yields hugh results.

 

In looking at relationships ~ in pointing fingers? You need to always look back at the three fingers that you have pointing back at you to the one that your pointing back at someone else.

 

When you tell your spouse that they're boring? Go look in the mirror and take a good long hard look at the boroing SOB you've become! :eek:

 

People say that they're splitting up because they're just too different" from one another. In your case you like things neat and orderly ~ a place for everything and everything in its place, while she's the oppossite. You're always on time ~ fifteen minutes before you have to be somewhere? She's always fashoinably late?

 

The reason we get with someone that's on the surface so dramatically oppossite than oursleves? The reason "oppossitites attract" one another, is because they bring something that is lacking in our own lives, our own personalities

 

Rather than accentuate on one's differences ~ accentuate them, focus on them, look upon them as learning opportunties, room for personal growth, a new and different perspective, a way of complimenting rather than limiting oneself.

[Ladydrib]

I've only read the first few posts on this, but I get a very clear impression that you are done with the marriage but scared to let go, so you are looking for encouragement to give yourself the approval to leave. Just think about that. If you agree, maybe you just need to close your eyes, trust, and jump.

[Ami1uwant]

 

 

 

 

You can't change someone else ~ just not possible. But you can change yourself ~ and when you do? You will find that others, not just your wife will change. Its NOT your wife that needs changing its YOU! And when you change, when you change your attitude, when you change your perspective, when you choose to see things in a different light, it is then when you will see changes in her.

 

The part I underlined/bolded/italicized is a fallacy....

 

If the reason you are having these marital problems is because say she cheated---then how is that your fault--how does that mean you need to change?

 

You need to address what the core problems are...if its cheating...it isnt cheating...cheating is the byproduct of other problems in the relationship.

 

I was married ...now divorced. The problems were 90% on her.

 

She came from a very conservative background just like the OPs wife...

 

She had a medical problem which caused her to stop working I fully supported her with doctors et all. When she got better she didnt want to go back to work. This caused the biggest problem in my marriage. There were other issues as well....but by far it was her not working--how does that have anything to do with me.

 

 

OP:

 

It sounds to me she pulled away after her Dads death.

 

The question you need to ask her is why she refuses counseling? If she says its a stranger---then how is it any different than her seeing her doctor? The other option would be to go to some sort of large group thing with other couples with problems.

[Gunny376]

The part I underlined/bolded/italicized is a fallacy....

 

If the reason you are having these marital problems is because say she cheated---then how is that your fault--how does that mean you need to change?

 

You need to address what the core problems are...if its cheating...it isnt cheating...cheating is the byproduct of other problems in the relationship.

 

I was married ...now divorced. The problems were 90% on her.

 

She came from a very conservative background just like the OPs wife...

 

She had a medical problem which caused her to stop working I fully supported her with doctors et all. When she got better she didnt want to go back to work. This caused the biggest problem in my marriage. There were other issues as well....but by far it was her not working--how does that have anything to do with me.

 

 

OP:

 

It sounds to me she pulled away after her Dads death.

 

The question you need to ask her is why she refuses counseling? If she says its a stranger---then how is it any different than her seeing her doctor? The other option would be to go to some sort of large group thing with other couples with problems.

 

Hands down ~ no questions asked! The absolute best advice that I can give you? Is to not necessaryly follow ANY advice that I may offer up to you nor anyone else.

 

Genius don't need it ~ and fools won't heed it! Just that plain! Just that simple. Anything I post here is not posted in the absolute ~ but rather in the fluid and I woud hope that those that read my posts? Would take away a fraction of that which may serve them, and leave the rest.

 

Per the experience of Life? I'm better than I was? And not near the person that I'm yet to be.

 

In my twenties! I though I had Life by the horns. I was full of piss and vineger and thought that I had Life all figured out! Only to find out in my thirties that I didn't! Then I got into my forties, and realized that I still didn't have all of the answers to the questions ~ nor the solutions to the problems of Life.

 

Now I'm in my fifities ~ only to realize that I NEVER had it figured out, none of the solutions to the problems, nor answers to the questions.

 

In fifty something years of living ~ this I know to be true!

 

WHEN YOU SHUT DOWN TO LIVING AND LEARNING? IS THE DAY YOU START DYING!

[BrokenBike]

A lot of time spent talking to friends this weekend on the phone or in person....

 

One suggestion offered was that I extend the invitation to her to attend counseling session as a passive listener only - and not be expected to talk. I offered that last night, not really sure about it but extended it anyway, and it was immediately refused.

 

I've only read the first few posts on this, but I get a very clear impression that you are done with the marriage but scared to let go, so you are looking for encouragement to give yourself the approval to leave. Just think about that. If you agree, maybe you just need to close your eyes, trust, and jump.

Ladydrib, you may be dead-on here. A friend yesterday said something similar - "You are talking like you are going to go in and see this counselor and he is going to say 'Ahhh, I am listening to you describe your relationship and it sounds to me like you are 100% right and she is 100% wrong. Therefore, here is my rubber stamp approval for you to go ahead and get divorced....here is who you need to make the check out to....thank you' and quite likely it isn't going to happen that way."

 

Gunny & Ami, as far as changing goes...I found this on another forum....it strikes a responsive chord within me....but I would say it applies to both my spouse and I; both of us are too stubborn to take that first step:

 

We exist in relation to one another. People that claim that people can't change clearly must never change themselves, so why should they expect others to change in relation to them? If they changed, maybe they would see that everyone changes along with them. When we change, we redefine the relationship and force everyone else to change in relation to the new us. People do change, but not unless they have to. If you want someone to change how they interact with you, then you need to change how you interact with them first.

 

This weekend has already been exhaustive for me - the talking session with a couple I know started at 8:00pm in a Mexican restaurant and ended at 3:00am in the parking lot. Another session on the phone for an hour and then another evening with a friend going through similar situation. I came home last night and she was there to tell me she did not approve of me discussing our issues with others - that whatever our problems were should be resolved solely between ourselves - that she would not attend counseling as a passive listener - but then she went off talking about some of the good things we did together. I felt it odd that the highlights of our marriage to her were vacations and other forms of paid entertainment. I too love to travel, but trips to me are highlights of life not highlights of a relationship. After that she spoke to me 'normally', as if we simply acted 'OK', then things would be. I wasn't quite prepared for that. I told her I was tired and did not want to talk.

 

I bring that up because I am thinking about change. I don't find much value in assessing who is more to blame about something - but instead prefer to keep my eye on what is the solution. The passage I quoted implies that if one changes, so will the other. The impasse here is that neither one of us wants to be the first to do it.

[Gunny376]

We exist in relation to one another. People that claim that people can't change clearly must never change themselves, so why should they expect others to change in relation to them? If they changed, maybe they would see that everyone changes along with them. When we change, we redefine the relationship and force everyone else to change in relation to the new us. People do change, but not unless they have to. If you want someone to change how they interact with you, then you need to change how you interact with them first.

 

This weekend has already been exhaustive for me - the talking session with a couple I know started at 8:00pm in a Mexican restaurant and ended at 3:00am in the parking lot. Another session on the phone for an hour and then another evening with a friend going through similar situation. I came home last night and she was there to tell me she did not approve of me discussing our issues with others - that whatever our problems were should be resolved solely between ourselves - that she would not attend counseling as a passive listener - but then she went off talking about some of the good things we did together. I felt it odd that the highlights of our marriage to her were vacations and other forms of paid entertainment. I too love to travel, but trips to me are highlights of life not highlights of a relationship. After that she spoke to me 'normally', as if we simply acted 'OK', then things would be. I wasn't quite prepared for that. I told her I was tired and did not want to talk.

 

I bring that up because I am thinking about change. I don't find much value in assessing who is more to blame about something - but instead prefer to keep my eye on what is the solution. The passage I quoted implies that if one changes, so will the other. The impasse here is that neither one of us wants to be the first to do it.

 

To quote Bruce Willis in Men's Health Magazine ~ Paraphased

 

"When I was in my twenties, I thought I had it ALL figured out! Only to find out in my thirties? I didn't! Then when I was in my forties? I thought for sure I had it all figured out!

 

Now that I'm in my fifties! I realize that I NEVER HAD A F**KING CLUE!

[Gunny376]

We exist in relation to one another. People that claim that people can't change clearly must never change themselves, so why should they expect others to change in relation to them? If they changed, maybe they would see that everyone changes along with them. When we change, we redefine the relationship and force everyone else to change in relation to the new us. People do change, but not unless they have to. If you want someone to change how they interact with you, then you need to change how you interact with them first.

When we stop learning and growing? Is the day we start truly start dying!

[Gunny376]

"I'm better than I was and not near as half as I'm going to be!"

[evryrozhasitsthorn]

I also think some of the comments here about change are incorrect. When someone cheats on you, it changes you for the worse. It physically changes your brain. So you can't just use the power of positive thinking or religion or any other snap-your-finger type of bunk to spin that kind of trauma into good change. All the other crap about change yourself goes out the f&$&$ window when that happens. AND if you don't have a mentally healthy spouse on top of that, you can forget healthy reconciliation. Yes, I'm a little bitter, but when someone talks about changing yourself, I get irritated. It's a myth. Yes everyone should be concerned with self improvement, being more selfless, being more loving, but saying someone can just choose to be happy is bull!

[BrokenBike]

OP, you're 46, your wife is 50, so if she's not already menopausal she soon will be.

Hit a nerve there Abe....she comments on menopause with an "I can't wait" attitude. I am sure it has its advantages, but her comments don't make me feel all that great.

 

 

Think about what your life is like NOW and compare that with waking up next to a hot, passionate, sexy 32 year old woman who actually enjoys sex.

On first pass I interpreted this as "go out and re-marry a hot, passionate 32 year old" but upon closer inspection you did not say that. That sounds really awesome too at the moment - but I still won't ditch the idea that marriage isn't about growing old together. Don't get me wrong - sex is important too - but I need the emotional and intellectual stimulation and the sense of connectedness to have it be fulfilling. I'd be lying if I told you there wasn't a real fear of leaving and then never finding anyone again - even if I am not really in the mood of late as to think about such things.

[NWDesigningWoman]

Thank you for posting this. It's not easy to put yourself out there to strangers.

 

I registered just so I could reply to your post because what you said really spoke to me. I am also replying without reading the others' replies so my mind remains unclouded by further input.

 

My husband left our fifteen-year marriage eight months ago. Your story sounds a lot like ours. At the time I cried, begged, threatened - anything to get him to change his mind. We had been in MC for the six months preceding the split and it was clear that he was becoming more and more resolved to the separation and removed from the marriage. We barely spoke, other than terse statements about our schedules or short exchanges about our thirteen year-old daughter (who we both adore more than anything else in the world). We slept in the same bed but never touched. Life together became almost unbearable and I would cry every day as he left for work without so much as a goodbye - forget about a kiss!

 

I went through eight months of hell convinced that I was done. He was my one and only and there would never be anyone else. I lost weight, I withdrew, I grieved. Every night going to bed was agony and waking up every morning felt like I was in a nightmare, only to discover that it was the reality that was my life. He was gone and not coming back. Still life went on. My daughter needed me, the pets needed to be fed and the house and yard needed to be cared for. I read every book I on divorce and healing I could get my hands on, started attending divorce support groups, gathered my friends... and little by little, day by day things started to feel a tiny bit better. Some days were definitely worse than others, but by him leaving, I think it forced me to "grow up". I couldn't be the passive, comfortable stay-at-home mom anymore. I had responsibilities, a divorce to negotiate, bills to pay - and tomorrow I start the first full-time job I've had in fifteen years, in the career I love.

 

My point is, I married for love. I believed in the "til death do you part", and yes, I still believe in marriage. But sometimes people aren't meant to be together forever. I still love my husband but I would never go back to the marriage we had. I cherish the years we had and the beautiful daughter he gave me, but now it's time for me to see where the next phase of my life is going to take me. I just hope you can look into your heart and make the best decision for both of you.

 

I wish you the best.

[2sunny]

If/since you aren't happy in the M and your wife is completely unwilling to change and get help - there's not much to say except to ACCEPT that it is likely to remain this way if you stay.

 

It may stand a chance for a better future if you end it.

 

Be the change you wish to see!

 

And since she hasn't been willing to be openly communicating with you about HOW to BETTER the M with CHANGES - tell her to mind her own business if it makes you find comfort in talking with friends. She shouldn't think she can tell you who to talk to.

 

Is she a controlling woman?

 

Sometimes once we know what doesn't make us happy anymore is the beginning of changes that can lead to finding a happier way. It doesn't need to be dependent on BEING with another person - in fact, that's very unhealthy.

 

Happy comes from within.

Edited August 1, 2012 by 2sunny

[thatone]

have you pointed out to her what the issues really are here?

 

i get checking out, it's a natural response. but from what you've told us...

 

a) she is still behaving like a college girlfriend, at 50. identifies happiness with shopping and you spending money on her.

b) she is, at 50, sexually repressed despite being in a 17 year marriage. i'm guessing the reason for the sexlessness is your not desiring her to get pregnant and her refusing birth control on religious grounds?

c) she is carrying half a century of catholic guilt around and refusing to accept that you might not agree with her. the fact that you don't share that catholic guilt/shame is incomprehensible to her for whatever reason, she assumes you should agree with her and if you don't it's your fault.

 

and when offered to see a counselor about these issues she refuses because that's a threat to the guilt trip.

 

correct any part that's wrong.

 

if the above is true, does she realize that she's leaving you no way but out?

[BrokenBike]

I registered just so I could reply to your post because what you said really spoke to me.

Flattering words NW. Reading your post gives me perspective from what things are like from her vantage point. I am sure she would relate to your feelings - and that is hard for me to read and know that I am the cause of those feelings. You conclusion has the right perspective, for whatever my opinion might be worth, and it is the place that I hope both myself and her reach. I too wish you the very best - congratulations on the new job - I hope it takes you to the place you rightfully belong.

 

Is she a controlling woman?

Yes, but in a passive sort of way. One of the big issues I have is her deciding on some purchases that I too should have some input in. I am not talking about controlling her spending - but just at least being asked about somethings BEFORE she goes ahead with the purchase. Two standouts right now are

 

1. A 'tramp stamp' tattoo she got a couple years back while vacationing without me after she quit a job. I gave her a couple hundred bucks as additional 'play money' to use while she went to Florida, figuring if she was out of work and needed to spend a little time re-thinking her job situation, fine. Here's a little so you don't feel like you need to scrimp while you should be relaxing - but then to come home with a tattoo (which I don't mind a tasteful artistic one carefully placed) without even asking me what I might think about it? WTF?

 

2. I went out and bought myself a smoker as a new hobby. I told her about it BEFORE I bought it. The first one I got was cheap and went back to the store because it did not assemble correctly. The second one I laid down the dough and got a quality one (About $300). I was pleased with it and for my birthday she asked what I might like. I asked for wood chips and charcoal for my new smoker. I got those things but then she also went out and bought this huge grill - probably also around another $300 I am guessing. We don't need that - you can grill things on my smoker. There are only two of us - again WTF? Why would we need this huge grill in addition to what I got and was happy with? Couldn't return it because she had some friend come over and assemble it - and then another friend come over and lay down lawn bricks to place it on. Completely upset me that I had no say in being able to explain that it wasn't a wise choice. May have been my gift - but I promise she gets to keep that grill.

[2sunny]

So - since YOU aren't happy with the way things are - what are YOU planning to DO to change things?