BW and OW Meeting in Person - More detailed update.

[GettingTired09]

Hello all. I am back to try to give more details about the events that occured this weekend. I am a wreck right now, I am completely crushed. While I lay down on my bed at night I cry, I’m at work and I burst into tears, the pain is immeasurable and all I think is, here I am ALONE, trying to heal on my own, while he is nurturing his wife’s healing. This is sad, I know this is what I deserve for getting into a relationship with a MM but he did offer the sky and the stars to me, of course, all words, no actions. I BELIEVED HIM. I really hope the days get better because I am not able to function right now. I feel like a zombie, just going through the motions.

 

By me forcing DDay, MM definitely felt betrayed. We exchanged a few texts on Saturday saying this:

MM: “you betrayed me OW, that is not fair, when in love one does not hurt the other"

OW: “When truly in love, one does not do what you did to me”

MM: “Thank you very much for lifting a weight off my shoulders, God bless you and take care of you in your path”

OW: “I will contact you later to get the cell phone” (he had a cell phone we used to communicate that is under my name)

MM: “I prefer not to see you. You have hurt my family, my two oldest (19 and 16) were there”.

OW: “I want the cell phone today”

MM: “**** your mother!”

 

Then on Sunday and after I tried to call him a few times and sent a few more texts being very polite about requesting the cell phone, this is what was exchanged:

 

MM: “you are so cheap”

OW: “even at that, you still need to return the cell phone, you are the one insulting and being disrespectful, thank you for opening my eyes, you are showing your true colors”

MM: “I pity you OW"OW: “I just want the cell phone and no more"

MM: “Good bye and God Bless You. :-D ”

OW: “You very well know that I will not stop until you return the cell phone, after that I will be able to wish a good life to you as well, give a date and time for the cell phone MM”.

MM: :-)

OW: “I’ve been asking you very nicely, I need the cell phone please”.

 

Thirty minutes after, he calls me and says “Hey, I just took a gun away from BW, if something happens to her I will be coming after you dumb ass” and I replied “you know where to find me”.

 

I sent a text telling him he killed me already and he would be doing me a favor.

 

At this point I thought he was trying to intimidate me and made up that story so I would stop asking for the cell phone.

 

So I drove to his area, parked at a retail center near his house and I asked him to drop off the cell phone at a designated spot and I would retrieve it from there. He then said he did not have it, he had it at work, he was lying about this since he always kept that cell phone hidden in his truck. By the way, you guys are probably asking yourselves why so much insistence with the freaking cell phone??, it turns out we exchanged private pictures and he threatened me saying that if I ever showed evidence of our A, he would open a facebook account under my name and post those pictures!! So even though at the end of the day I don’t really care if he does that, I still wanted the cell phone since it is under my account.

 

He finally answered one of my calls and the way he talked to me, UNBELIEVABLE, I do not know how I made it past this weekend, by Sunday night I felt like I was going to die, he told me “**** your mother” again, he called me a bastard, a piece of ****, he told me “take the cell phone out of your ass”, and throughout the call I kept calm, I never insulted him, the closest I came to insulting him after taking all his insults was to say “you are not a real man MM”. We hung up and he called me to tell me he would be taking his W to the hospital the next day due to the gun incident and that he would be giving the hospital my name and number because I made that call on Saturday and I was the one responsible for his W’s mental condition. No ownership from his part whatsoever. He told me she already knew everything about our A (untrue since the next morning he called me to ask me to cover his lies and as I mention on my post from yesterday). So I told him “go ahead, give them my info, go ahead”. I have kept a firm attitude with him even though I feel like dying, he needs to know that he will not be messing with me anymore. He said he would not be going to work on Monday so he could take her to the hospital.

 

So later that evening Sunday his wife called me. She asked him for my number and I mentioned how our conversation went on my previous post.

 

Monday morning at 7:30 a.m. he called me, he did go to work, W said she was going to be okay and so off to work he went. We spent 30 minutes talking about the events over the weekend, he told me “I hope you are happy now”, he said he had to call her family over Sunday night because she started talking suicide again, he told them he would accept any decision she takes about their marriage but he won’t accept a decision to take her life. I told him I felt bad about DDay but he needs to try and understand how affected I am as well and my emotional and mental state are not 100% and thus forcing DDay. I told him I understand how pressured he must feel finding his wife with a gun in her hands and how aggressive he reacted (why do I justify him?). I told him I would be meeting his W for lunch and he was not aware of that. She did talk with him about our phone conversation, she told him I told her we have had a relationship for 2.5 years and he said no, that’s not true, it’s only been one year and she reached out to me after her father passed away and she was going through her divorce so she seek me out for support (yeah right!), he told her we would only meet for lunch and we have never been intimate. He asked me to back his story up and to say that I lied when I told her I had evidence, pictures, texts, e-mails because I was angry at him. When he suggested I do that, I did not feel right just thinking about it but I was considering not releasing any more info, I definitely knew I would not be putting the blame on myself. That is when I decided to post here to get some feedback and opinions and I would say 98% of all the responses and including my friends and family members that are aware of the situation and have been very supportive told me she should know the truth.

 

So off I went.

 

She kept calm throughout our meeting, no tears, no anger, no insults to me even though she could have done it, not one bad word, very nice lady. I can tell he controls and manipulates her a lot. She was surprised when I told her he had called me that morning. She looked very composed to me, she drove there by herself and she was desperate to get the truth. So this is MM version to her:

 

“OW looked for me one year ago when her father passed away and she was going through her divorce, she is obsessed with me, she goes to my job and waits for me to get off, she looks for me all the time, I would always tell her to go to her family but she just won’t leave me alone”

 

Also a little backstory: February 2010 when my then H found out MM and I were communicating he called BW to inform her and MM was livid. MM told BW this time around that since my BH had made that call in 2010 and BW suffered so much he said he would get back at my BH and what better way to do it than with me, he would get back at him for making that call and causing pain to BW by destroying my family, oh, what a noble story from MM to his BW!! I told her, “well, he did, he destroyed my family” and she said “but you fell for it, you really thought he was going to leave his family, leave his kids for you?”. That’s when I thought to myself: “oh BW, you really need to open your eyes, your H definitely is trying to play you for a fool”.

 

She said that MM and I have done enough damage already, what is done is done and she acknowledged that he has hurt both of us and now we just have to find strength to go on. I told her I was in a very tough situation because MM asked me to not disclose anything but the night before I had told her I would give her the truth if that’s what she wanted, she said “yes, I want the truth because he will not give it to me, I know him, he is not going to do it and I cannot live like this”, to tell you the truth, I felt sorry for her because she really was reaching to me for that truth and after she told me MM’s version of this A I said, “you know, for some reason I feel that I have loyalty to him and don’t want to betray him by giving you the truth but he is putting everything on me and that is not fair at all” and she agreed with me she said “no, that is not fair”. So I started. She did not look suicidal to me and she was strong enough to call me, to set a lunch date, to drive there by herself and to show composure so I decided to confess, she will not leave him, she will forgive him but she just wants confirmation of her suspicions. She said she knew all along but she never said anything. She said after my BH called her in 2010 she did not believe anything MM said anymore, that’s 2.5 years of gaslighting by him!!! She would ask him questions and tell him “come on, I am not dumb” but he would never admit to anything, of course.

 

We talked about specific events, she had questions, I had questions. He lied to me, he lied to her. He played us both. She asked me to see pictures and I showed her just four of them, I have tons though. At the end, I think she was surprised by what an intense relationship we shared. She said “I think I am going to tell him I need time”. I asked her if he has asked for her forgiveness and she said yes, I asked her if he has cried, she said yes.

 

We talked a lot more but I really don’t know what else to tell you guys other than I am TIRED. I am now doubting if I should have ever prompted DDay, I feel guilty that I betrayed him, but why?????????? Why????? Even after I confirmed he lied to me as well on some specific questions I had for her. Why do I feel like this??? Why do I feel like I really screwed any small chance I could have had with him??? Why??? Even though his priority is his family, to make sure he is there for them during this difficult time and he not once asked how I am doing. He has not contacted me and even if he tries which will probably be to insult me even further if BW tells him all the details I told her about the A. I do fear for my safety because to him it was so important to keep that image of a good father and perfect person and always feared that I would do something like this and I told him I would never do it and here I am, I did it and I feel that I disappointed him in that respect. I am starting to regret it but then I tell myself “girl, please, after the way he treated you and how he is throwing you under the bus he doesn’t deserve anything from you”. I should not care but I do and I feel so horrible. I love him, I do. I want him to be okay, I want him to be happy. I did not want to cause so much hurt by forcing DDay but at the end of our meeting she thanked me for giving her the truth, she really thanked me. I asked her to forgive me and she said “I forgive you”. I told her she should not worry about me contacting him because I WILL NOT, I told her he is not worthy of me or her. They will stay together, she is not going anywhere and he just got a free pass. I hope he is really regretful and appreciates what he has at home and changes his ways, if he doesn’t, I am glad he is not my problem. I was not going to continue to let him treat me poorly, hot and cold, I could not take it anymore and deep inside of me I know the only way he will stay away is by his BW finding out.

 

He told her I would tell him “MM leave your W, your kids are older, leave her” and I told her, no!!, it was the other way around!! He would tell me “OW, my kids are older and I would not be leaving her with a huge load”!!! He turned everything around!!

 

She also asked if we used protection, I told her no but that she should not worry about me because in my life I only had one other sex partner and it was my husband. She said that MM would look for her every night, so he had it made, having constant sex with the both of us!

 

I am sorry for the long post, like I said, we talked a lot more but I am TIRED. She has my number and even though I hope not to hear from either of them again, I had to tell her she can contact me anytime. She knows my number by memory now!

 

Please wish me luck and I need to accept this reality and I need to forgive him even though in his mind he did not do anything wrong and I am the one to blame for causing all this pain to his family. This is a very painful lesson.

Edited July 25, 2012 by GettingTired09

[MissBee]

Wow...painful lesson indeed.

 

Prepare yourself for the roller coaster of emotions. Many of your feelings won't be rational, but you should allow yourself to feel them and then allow them to pass.

 

What's done is done...but having unprotected sex with a man who is cheating on another woman with you, not wise. Having unprotected sex with anyone who you're not monogamous with and have never gotten tested with is not wise, further a man who is cheating. As as you've seen, this person could be lying through their teeth about who they're sleeping with. How sick...he is sleeping with his wife and you with no condom and probably even others. That is so selfish and irresponsible!

 

As for all the horrible things he said to you...replay them over and over when you feel like you love him and want him and that he's great. If you aren't 100% turned off, it is safe to say that there is some part of you that feels like you're the bad person and this person is worth more than you are. He really really isn't. Be grateful that unlike his wife, you have no kids or other obligations and can make a CLEAN break and heal yourself and find out why you attracted such a situation and why you wanted to love and be loved by such an asshat!

 

Doing the right thing doesn't always feel good, trust me. Just like NC, it almost always feels wrong and like you shouldn't, but once you let those feelings pass you become stronger and you slowly start seeing how it was actually right and worth it. Don't waste your time worried about him being happy or okay...sorry, but he doesn't give one shyyt about whether or not you're okay. He only cared about you keeping his secret and being there at his disposal...when you tried to do right by yourself and his wife you saw who he was really worried about. He will be A-OK and even if he isn't...so what??? He is not sitting around crying about you or worried that you'll be okay. He has his wife who will stay with him and they will work their situation out, yet again. You told the truth, now break away from them and run as far away as possible.

 

He sold you lies and promises that weren't true. It sucks really bad, but now you won't waste another 2.5 years with a dead-end relationship. The silver lining is that after you cry and hurt and feel like a zombie, there is an end to it, trust me. You'll be renewed, esp. if you focus on addressing your own issues, and you'll be able to move on to a much much better situation and this MM and this whole drama will be a HUGE lesson but thing of the past (((hugs)))

[Got it]

Deflecting and turning the blame is pretty standard when someone is backed into the corner. You are upset and feel guilt that you betrayed his trust but let me ask, do you feel he honored the trust you had in him?

 

I am very sorry for your pain. I would stop trying to get the phone right now, go to your provider and see if there is a way to remotely wipe it and turn it off. Stop engaging about getting the phone, it is only opening the door for him to say hurtful things to you.

 

((((((gettingtired))))))

 

I would recommend, if you aren't already, please get some IC. It will help you process your feelings through all of this.

[sleepie]

I understand that you're feeling pain, and you probably will for quite some time.

 

Give up on the cell phone. To him and his W, it looks like just another attempt to contact him/see him.

 

Give up on your MM. From what you've written, he's an extremely selfish, self-involved man.

 

The days will get better, trust me. Early on you'll be in a wave of emotions and they'll feel extremely intense. Over time, they'll ease. All of them. And one day, you'll feel only the slightest twinge at the thought of him. It takes time, patience, and introspection.

[jwi71]

Sometimes what we NEED to hear and what we WANT to hear don't align.

 

This is one of those times.

 

This will come off as harsh. However, if you can read/process it as intended it might help you in both the short term and the long term. And I say this because you aren't done with your MM yet. So here we go:

 

Your MM doesn't want a future with you.

Here's how we know this. He is fighting for "his family". He did so when your presumably now xH contacted him. He responds now in the same vein.

Now, after "everyone" knows...what did he do?

 

Well, he lashed out at you, blamed you, for the trauma his family faces. He didn't leave. Now was the PERFECT opportunity for him to make good on his promises (I presume he promised life forever after with you). Yet he does not. He stays. He covers his azz at home. He tells more lies.

 

All of life is a choice. What has your MM chosen? You? His M and his family?

 

I know that's not what many consider as "support". It's not bouncing bunnies or hugs or virtual commiseration.

 

I intend for your rational self to read and hold on to it. Because its all too easy to be "sucked back in".

 

When the time came for him to choose, he didn't pick you.

 

I know it hurts.

 

It also has NOTHING to do with you or your self worth. Absolutely nothing.

 

You've taken string and decisive action. Actions he clearly had no intention of taking.

 

Remember that.

 

I don't know what tomorrow brings. If I did I would be filthy rich and on a beach be served some fruity beverage by a scantily clad beauty with a coconut bikini top. Minus the coconuts. My W reads this post I'm dead. I digress. What I do know is tomorrow is imperceptibly better than today (big whoop being imperceptible and all right). Funnily enough , after a great many tomorrows that better IS perceptible. You can and will be happy again. But not with MM. He has chosen his path. I urge you to abandon hopes of that tomorrow. Find a new one.

 

(it's there, that I DO promise)

 

Keep posting. Venting.

 

The only way to fail is to stop.

[skywriter]

Miss Bee, "Doing the right thing doesn't always feel good, trust me. Just like NC, it almost always feels wrong and like you shouldn't, but once you let those feelings pass you become stronger and you slowly start seeing how it was actually right and worth it."

 

 

Oh yes, definitly worth it, moving on from the A, is freeing and like a burden being lifted.

[sleepie]

Although it's probably not easy to hear or accept, jwi71 is spot-on here. (And based on his responses to some of my stuff, I'd say he's handling you with kid gloves. )

 

But I agree particularly about two things:

 

When his time came to choose, his didn't pick you.

 

And tomorrow will be imperceptibly better than today, until eventually the better-ness is perceptible.

 

Hold onto those two things. They'll help get you through.

[Owl]

I'd like to make a comment about your 'self worth' here...

 

Sure...you've made a pretty awful mess of things by getting involved with MM.

 

BUT...for what it's worth from one of us evil BS posters here...I personally think you've got a ton of style and class.

 

When push came to shove...you kept your head, kept your wits, kept your cool, and remained a lady throughout your interactions with both of them.

 

You were honest, up front, even when it wasn't clear to you if you should be or not.

 

When the stuff hit the fan...you did the right thing.

 

Counts for a hell of a lot, in my book anyway.

 

I am sorry that you're hurting. All I can offer to you is that you WILL heal, whether or not you feel that you can right now.

 

And you can (and SHOULD!) hold your head up just a little bit. You've demonstrated a character and class that very few women nowadays could have.

[scatterd]

Sounds like so much has happened while I was gone.

He threw you under the bus which is a common thing.

I know you are hurt but you seen the true person now.

Now that this has happened and you know its over is

when you can start healing time cures all. What a slap in the face that was I am sorry you are in pain, Big Hugs.

[canuckprincess]

Omg getting tired 09, I feel I can totally relate to you on so many levels. Is there a private messaging option on this site. You said about the cell phone did he at least pay you for his bills every month? The difference is my bf would never harm me or threaten to but on all other levels I can relate. I don't want to post too much detail on here but I could use your advise. If there is no PM is there any other site I could PM you on?

My heart truly goes out to you, he sounds like a greedy selfish SOB! I wish you all the best hun and big hugs to you, stay strong.

[beenburned]

GT,

 

Your XMM proved himself as bad as my D's STBXH!

 

They are selfish users that never take responsibility for any of their actions!

 

I'm proud that you had the courage to do the right thing!

[GettingTired09]

Canuckprincess, I ready your post and 6.5 years is way too long, I do not know how you have been able to manage. 2.5 were too many for me. He did start paying the cell phone every month only after I asked him to take responsibility of that cell phone like it was his even though it was under my account. I did pay the darn thing for a couple of months but I did not feel comfortable about it. I wanted him to give me his portion every month, be responsible for it.

 

I opened a yahoo address, if you'd like to contact me: [email protected]. Please feel free to write to me.

 

Thank you for the encouragement, I really need it.

[GettingTired09]

Thank you LadyGrey for checking up on me. I am still in shock about everything that went on this weekend. I am trying to do my best not to think about them, how they must be doing, if she confronted him, how he is doing, I am really trying to focus on myself. Asking myself why is she so forgiving? After our meeting she said "I believe I will tell him I need time". I know we are all different but if something like that was done to me, gaslighting for 2.5 years, the consequences would have been serious.

 

I know we cannot turn back time but I feel I should not have betrayed him and backstabbed him like that. Too late now.

 

Why is it that even though after comparing notes, obviously he was being dishonest with both of us, I still feel guilty. I should not because he should have let me go a long time ago when we tried before, things would have ended peacefully and I would have had respected him for making a decision to stay at home but instead he would come back the following day saying he could not go on without me, that he was not well, that he needed me and we went through this a few times so I could not take it anymore, I knew that something else had to happen in order for him to really stay away and of course that was his wife knowing all, which she knew all along but she just wanted confirmation, she was not getting it from him, she sought that info from me.

 

Yes, I planted the seed when I made the phone call but she asked him for my number, made the call and asked to see me in person.

 

He betrayed me way before I did. He lied to me about different things (things I asked during meeting with W) so I should not care about him feeling that I back stabbed him. On top of everything, he insulted me, threatened me, that is definitely not loving behavior.

 

I don't have any updates, everything remains the same, I am doing the best I can to recover from this. I am a strong person so I know I will make it. I thought I was an intelligent woman and I cannot believe I trusted him with my heart and he failed me.

 

My thoughts are all over the place as you can see. I am taking your advice regarding resting, I am sleeping a lot once I am able to fall asleep.

 

 

 

 

GT, I hope things are calming down for you now a bit and I wanted to caution you about separating yourself from their drama. As hard as it is, you need to step away because it's their mess now, you need to put your energy on healing yourself and learning how you got in that mess. I know from experience it's hard to back off, because you are spinning in what feels like a crazy out of control non reality.

 

 

Hoping you will update us and let us know how you are.

[canuckprincess]

GT09 I sent you a email.

[BetrayedH]

For what it's worth, I'm with Owl on this. You didn't betray him. He was deceiving and betraying both of you. You brought some authenticity to the situation and now two women are able to at least start healing.

 

As for the BS, it's common for us to have our own fog where we still want to retain our vision of our spouse and to think that it is an aberration that can be fixed. We don't immediately fall out of love with our spouse and we want the world to at least stop crashing. We take some responsibility for the state of the marriage and figure it is on us to work on forgiveness to pull our family out of this mess. She has many stages of grief to go thru and it will take her years whether she stays with him or not. At least she can begin to heal now and she isn't living a lie anymore. You may have made mistakes before but this isn't one of them.

[SoMovinOn]

For what it's worth, I'm with Owl on this. You didn't betray him. He was deceiving and betraying both of you.

 

Doesn't work like that. He betrayed them both AND she betrayed him. One doesn't cancel the other, it's not a matter of "Who started it".

[cocorico]

He lied to me about different things (things I asked during meeting with W)

 

How do you know it was him lying to you and not her? She is the one with the motive to lie to you, after all.

[woinlove]

It always amazes me how any OW or fOW can trust the BS.

 

I understand your's and cocorico's point - the BS is acting from a position of pain and hurt and may want to save her M. But I gained truth from the BS and learned from her that MM had lied to me because he later admitted it.

 

In this case, there are some obvious lies the MM told the OP since he first said his W knew everything and then asked GettingTired to lie to cover for him because his W didn't know much at all. Also, his abusive behavior toward the GettingTired and his blatant lies to his W, show he is not a trustworthy person, whereas one does not have the same indicators for the BW.

 

Still, deceptive affairs are messy situations and it can be very tricky for either the BS or AP to get the truth, so I do think one has to be cautious in thinking one has the truth. When one is leaving the R behind (either the A or the M) what matters is if one feels one has enough of the truth the move forward. The fact that MM was abusive, did lie about some things, and is still there with his W, seems to be enough.

[BetrayedH]

Doesn't work like that. He betrayed them both AND she betrayed him. One doesn't cancel the other, it's not a matter of "Who started it".

 

Personally, I don't see what she did as betrayal. She had knowledge that someone was being hurt and betrayed and told them. She broke a confidence about something that was wrong and never should have been held in confidence. Perhaps if his betrayal was old, discontinued, and his current actions were noble/repentent, you can expect a friend to keep your secret in confidence. This was still an active, ongoing betrayal of the wife. From an ethical standpoint, this is a correction to a previously unethical position. That's not betrayal.

[frozensprouts]

It always amazes me how any OW or fOW can trust the BS.

 

there are people in the world who value honesty and integrity...there are some people who don't think it's okay to lie and hurt others just to satisfy themselves...

 

the vast majority of people in the world are like that, and both women in this situation sound like that...sometimes, all you have left is your own sense of honesty and integrity...at the end of the day, all the rationalizations and half truths that one may tell themselves won't change a damned thing

 

besides...it sounds like what this betrayed wife said meshed up very well with what the OP already knew deep down...

 

Now the OP has the knowledge she needs to be able to move on in her life and not be dragged down into his "drama" any more...she can have some peace of mind in her life, learn from this situation, and go on to bigger and better things...she won't be stuck with a guy who'd lie to her face just to cover his own rear...

 

as for his wife, i don't think she should stay with him either, but that's between the two of them...he's not the OP's problem anymore

[Radagast]

No more motive than the one getting his jollies from two women.

 

Why would a married man ever have to lie to his lover? I can understand him having to lie to his wife but if he and his lover have agreed on the terms of the relationship and they both keep to them, there would be no need to lie. Of course some people are just pathological and no doubt some amongst those have affairs, but I'm talking about normal men having normal affairs rather than the pathological extremes. In most cases, especially the normal ones, it is not in the married man's interest to lie to his lover. It is in his interest to have at least one relationship where he can be completely honest and authentic in a way that his marriage denies him.

 

The betrayed spouse, on the other hand, would have every reason to present a false picture to the affair partner since her interests are threatened. She wants to drive a wedge between the affair partners and threaten the relationship which is threatening her marriage, and she wants to exact revenge for her own humiliation by trying in turn to humiliate the other woman. Her interests are threatened, it is a very logical act on her part. She is trying to save her marriage.

 

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that had my wife and my ex-wife ever interacted during the affair (or perhaps even now) that my ex-wife would have lied to my wife, probably maliciously but at the very least through delusion. Luckily my wife would have had the views of many others to allow her to see who was telling the truth and who was seeking to mislead, but not every affair partner is that fortunate.

[frozensprouts]

Why would a married man ever have to lie to his lover? I can understand him having to lie to his wife but if he and his lover have agreed on the terms of the relationship and they both keep to them, there would be no need to lie. Of course some people are just pathological and no doubt some amongst those have affairs, but I'm talking about normal men having normal affairs rather than the pathological extremes. In most cases, especially the normal ones, it is not in the married man's interest to lie to his lover. It is in his interest to have at least one relationship where he can be completely honest and authentic in a way that his marriage denies him.

 

The betrayed spouse, on the other hand, would have every reason to present a false picture to the affair partner since her interests are threatened. She wants to drive a wedge between the affair partners and threaten the relationship which is threatening her marriage, and she wants to exact revenge for her own humiliation by trying in turn to humiliate the other woman. Her interests are threatened, it is a very logical act on her part. She is trying to save her marriage.

 

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that had my wife and my ex-wife ever interacted during the affair (or perhaps even now) that my ex-wife would have lied to my wife, probably maliciously but at the very least through delusion. Luckily my wife would have had the views of many others to allow her to see who was telling the truth and who was seeking to mislead, but not every affair partner is that fortunate.

 

wow...

how many times have you read on here about married man/women using lines like " we stay together for the kids', "we are separated", " I can't leave because of finances", " we never have sex", " he/she is too controlling ( funnily enough, not controlling enough that the married person can't cheat without arousing suspicions) , " I'm getting a divorce when the kids are grown, when I save enough money, when she gets a better job, when my house is paid for, when my dog isn't sick, when my plants no longer need watering every few days, etc., etc., etc."....

 

The cheating spouse has every reason to lie to their affair partner...an awful lot of other men/women wouldn't hang around very long if they knew the truth" my life isn't so bad, I may not be totally happy, but I'm not totally unhappy either and I'm too chickensh@t to leave...but if you stay with me, i don't have to...I have the comfort and stability of a marriage, and the thrill of the chase with you. I may love you, but it will never be enough to make me leave or make any changes in myself. I'll string you along, giving you just enough hope for the future that you'll stay, if you ever get sick of it all and want it to end- I won't respect that- I'll keep trying to contact you over and over even though I know it hurts you terribly- you'll be hurting, but my own needs come first, and If you start to threaten my comfy life at home , I'll drop you like a hot stone and vilify you in the process...if I ever do work up the courage to leave, my bad marriage will be because of my spouse and not me, I will have learned little from it beyond a heightened ability to blame others when things go bad. So, sound like something you'd be up for?"

 

besides , the greatest lies we tell are to ourselves, and cheating married people do that in spades...

[Owl]

Here's my thoughts on the "BS 'lying' or not".

 

It's simple enough to compare stories...and come to your own conclusions.

 

In this case...in this situation...look at the REACTIONS of the two people that GT has interacted with here.

 

MM threw her under the bus. Treated her like tee-total shyte when she went to his wife. Horrible comments, absolutely disgusting behavior, etc...

 

BW asked for more information. Was polite, calm, and dealt with GT in an adult fashion.

 

Who is more likely telling the lie here...the guy who's now furious he's caught, and trying to run damage control on the situation...or the person who's actively "comparing notes" with GT?

 

Please...it amazes me how far some people will go to try to make the MM look good in these situations.

 

Perhaps what GT did was against MM's wishes (but I would NOT in any way consider it a betrayal)...but what HE was doing was against her expressed wishes as well. And...clearly against the wishes of his wife as well. I don't know about "two wrongs don't make a right"...in this case...I don't see the 'second wrong'. GT knew that there was an imbalance, and she knew that she didn't want to continue on with the situation the way it was...so she took positive action to correct the imbalance and change the situation.

 

Why should he lie to his lover? Because he's a cake-eating jerk who wants to keep the situation precisely as it has been, and telling her the truth would have ended the affair long before. Occams razor.

[woinlove]

Why would a married man ever have to lie to his lover? I can understand him having to lie to his wife but if he and his lover have agreed on the terms of the relationship and they both keep to them, there would be no need to lie. Of course some people are just pathological and no doubt some amongst those have affairs, but I'm talking about normal men having normal affairs rather than the pathological extremes. In most cases, especially the normal ones, it is not in the married man's interest to lie to his lover. It is in his interest to have at least one relationship where he can be completely honest and authentic in a way that his marriage denies him.

 

The betrayed spouse, on the other hand, would have every reason to present a false picture to the affair partner since her interests are threatened. She wants to drive a wedge between the affair partners and threaten the relationship which is threatening her marriage, and she wants to exact revenge for her own humiliation by trying in turn to humiliate the other woman. Her interests are threatened, it is a very logical act on her part. She is trying to save her marriage.

 

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that had my wife and my ex-wife ever interacted during the affair (or perhaps even now) that my ex-wife would have lied to my wife, probably maliciously but at the very least through delusion. Luckily my wife would have had the views of many others to allow her to see who was telling the truth and who was seeking to mislead, but not every affair partner is that fortunate.

 

Not sure what you mean about "normal". Some people may think normal means lying other people may think normal means not lying and hence not having deceptive affairs to start with.

 

There are lots of reasons a MM may lie. He may lie in order to get a woman to be with him while he stays married. He may lie in order to get an OW to stay involved with him while he stays married. He may lie because that is how he deals with intimate relationships. He may lie because he thinks or knows the OW does not want him having sex with both her and his W. He may lie because he doesn't want to use condoms. He may lie because he has more than one OW. Bottom line, usually MM lie to get what they want -- for example, in this case, the MM lied and said his W already knew everything so that the OP would not talk to her and that would allow him to stay married and presumably continue to carry on the affair. It isn't rocket science figuring out why MM lie. It almost always is for selfish reasons.

Edited July 27, 2012 by woinlove

[woinlove]

Why would a married man ever have to lie to his lover? I can understand him having to lie to his wife but if he and his lover have agreed on the terms of the relationship and they both keep to them, there would be no need to lie. Of course some people are just pathological and no doubt some amongst those have affairs, but I'm talking about normal men having normal affairs rather than the pathological extremes. In most cases, especially the normal ones, it is not in the married man's interest to lie to his lover. It is in his interest to have at least one relationship where he can be completely honest and authentic in a way that his marriage denies him.

 

 

The MM was abusive to GettingTired and made her fear for her safety. Is that a "normal affair"? It certainly happens way too often here on LS. Are you trying to argue that this particular MM would not lie or are you making arguments about yourself or some other MM, in which case another thread might be more appropriate. For this particular thread, I think there is every reason to think the MM would lie.