FelicityShot Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Is love unconditional? Having given some thought to this over the decades (yikes) I have come up with a 'new' (what really? well only to me) idea. And I thought that love and any conditions one puts on it is much like looking at Matter and Anti-matter. (I did think this after reading some sci-fi, so feel free to laugh). Anyway, I kind of realised that love is unconditional. And all the boundaries and demands and needs, co-dependency or 'work' is anti-matter, and destroys it utterly. The actual love is incommensurate with any boundaries - and pain occurs when we put those in place. There is a ka-boom when conditions are encountered. And these thinkings made me question the way we say 'well is this love?' and wonder 'well are these conditions love?' I know there is fickleness and fear and needs in our actions and hearts, but deep down, all the people I have loved I love. It really doesn't matter to me if they are in my life now, or not, what circumstances or boundaries came into play or changed or stayed. I just thought that recently. I thought all this relevant to a recent closed thread.
2sure Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I agree with you in that... I love. I don't stop. But the conditions may be such that someone I love is too toxic to have in my life in a healthy way. 2
carhill Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Is love unconditional? Relevant to babies (later children) and pets, sure. Amongst adults, no, IMO. There's always a balance and a bargain struck in the process. If/one believes one can love another adult unconditionally, something goes, whether that be sense of self or boundaries. BTDT, got the emotional scars to prove it. A life lesson worth the price paid but not one I'd wish on another. So, hence, now, I love unconditionally only with a strong sense of self and within clearly defined boundaries. Hit the boundaries and feel the concrete of consequences. Prior, I was too long on love and too short on boundaries. Marriage taught many lessons but I think that was the best of them. So, if boundaries mean 'Le Boom', OK, I'll co-sign that. I'd rather be alone than the way things were before. 2
Author FelicityShot Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 I agree with you in that... I love. I don't stop. But the conditions may be such that someone I love is too toxic to have in my life in a healthy way. I am glad this was said here. I agree.
Author FelicityShot Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Relevant to babies (later children) and pets, sure. Amongst adults, no, IMO. There's always a balance and a bargain struck in the process. If/one believes one can love another adult unconditionally, something goes, whether that be sense of self or boundaries. BTDT, got the emotional scars to prove it. A life lesson worth the price paid but not one I'd wish on another. So, hence, now, I love unconditionally only with a strong sense of self and within clearly defined boundaries. Hit the boundaries and feel the concrete of consequences. Prior, I was too long on love and too short on boundaries. Marriage taught many lessons but I think that was the best of them. So, if boundaries mean 'Le Boom', OK, I'll co-sign that. I'd rather be alone than the way things were before. Yes it does cause scars, if we expect certain things. Pain will happen anyway, unless we close ourselves off. But if we have that strong sense of self you mentioned, if it is in place truly, we won't get that hurt. Feeling it helps us know the boundary of our own capacity for hurt, rather than anything about others.
2sure Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 It's a subject that has been discussed here before, and with a lot of disputes. Unconditional love ...without acknowledgement that it doesn't mean one will keep you in their lives no matter what...comes down to door mat. On the other hand, I am most happy when I love even those I can't stand...for their faults and all. I will always love my ex husband. I tell anyone who asks. Spitefully, hoping it gets back to him & hurts him. But it's true, I do.
Author FelicityShot Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Unconditional love ...without acknowledgement that it doesn't mean one will keep you in their lives no matter what...comes down to door mat. [/quote/] Door mat treatment in my mind is anti-matter - ka-boom love is gone. It's like magic. It's one of the few things which will actually destroy a love. It's an everyday thing though. Edited July 25, 2012 by FelicityShot
Author FelicityShot Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 I will always love my ex husband. I tell anyone who asks. Spitefully, hoping it gets back to him & hurts him. But it's true, I do. Why do you want to get back at him?
carhill Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 When one loves unconditionally, it's hard to discern where and when becoming a doormat occurs, simply because of the psychological and emotional process of loving without condition. Under such circumstances, it becomes easy to 'let' someone love one, simply by facilitating that unconditional love and accepting it, without any real actions, words or feelings of love being shown in response and/or proactively. With the other focused so proactively on loving without condition, the process simply sustains itself. All one has to do is 'be there'. I worked some of this with our psychologist in MC, getting down to the nitty-gritty of why I would have an EA and what the emotional/psychological process was. Eye-opening stuff.
2sure Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Thats ideal, that's healthy. It took me awhile to learn that I could walk away from someone I loved, and still love them. I think that's healthy too. The kaboom. The change. Has a name in physics...
2sure Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Why do you want to get back at him? Oh, I'm just still angry at him. He was awful. I have to get past it.
carhill Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 It took me awhile to learn that I could walk away from someone I loved, and still love them. I think that's healthy too. Yeah, I had this experience, post counseling, and agree. The clarity and positive decision of letting go and saying 'I love this person but it's just not healthy for me to love them now'. The cool thing it wasn't my exW or former affair partner. Fresh experience, fresh perspective. Glad I had it.
Author FelicityShot Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Oh, I'm just still angry at him. He was awful. I have to get past it. I am not nearly angry enough, if what carries for emotional health is what it seems. But while I don't mind at all (ever) I am sure I must be really angry. I can't see why though. I am glad you are in touch with your anger - that sounds good. I suspect I will shout at a shopkeeper soon - yet I do believe what I say about this.
Author FelicityShot Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 When one loves unconditionally, it's hard to discern where and when becoming a doormat occurs, simply because of the psychological and emotional process of loving without condition. Under such circumstances, it becomes easy to 'let' someone love one, simply by facilitating that unconditional love and accepting it, without any real actions, words or feelings of love being shown in response and/or proactively. With the other focused so proactively on loving without condition, the process simply sustains itself. All one has to do is 'be there'. I worked some of this with our psychologist in MC, getting down to the nitty-gritty of why I would have an EA and what the emotional/psychological process was. Eye-opening stuff. I liked this post. But it is what you said - strong in yourself = no door mat. But I don't think unconditional love has anything to do with that tbh. It's another type of thing.
Author FelicityShot Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Thanks 2sure and CH You have reminded me of the tension between unconditional and doormat. I was just somehow reminded in the process of the conversation. It's healthy.
SoMovinOn Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Is love unconditional? If love were unconditional, there'd be no need to choose whom we love. There would be no desirable traits we'd see in another person ... we'd just love them, unconditionally. We love whom we love for some reason or reasons. That's why relationships, and love, die ... because those things change. One could say a mother's love for her child is unconditional, but, even that love is based on at least one condition - it's her child. 2
Happyface Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Unconditional love is a fairy tale. It is unrealistic and totally unselfish. Human beings are neither. Really, are you going to love some monster who beats the **** out of you forever and ever? THAT would be unconditional, bloody stupid love. Happyface. 1
cocorico Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Unconditional love is a fairy tale. It is unrealistic and totally unselfish. Human beings are neither. Really, are you going to love some monster who beats the **** out of you forever and ever? THAT would be unconditional, bloody stupid love. Happyface. I learned as a child that love is not unconditional. There are always strings attached. If the other is sufficiently "in your own image" you can love them, otherwise not.
Author FelicityShot Posted July 26, 2012 Author Posted July 26, 2012 If love were unconditional, there'd be no need to choose whom we love. There would be no desirable traits we'd see in another person ... we'd just love them, unconditionally. We love whom we love for some reason or reasons. That's why relationships, and love, die ... because those things change. One could say a mother's love for her child is unconditional, but, even that love is based on at least one condition - it's her child. I didn't choose my sisters, parents, etc, yet I love them. At least not in this life Where I have felt love, choice doesn't seem to have been the prime requisite. Love dies - if it does - because someone bashes it with a sledgehammer repeatedly. They do this for their own good, or for someone else's. Or more commonly, because they can't hack love. But it doesn't die IME. It just becomes not talked about or replaced. I don't think love is about desirable traits.
SoMovinOn Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 I didn't choose my sisters, parents, etc, yet I love them. At least not in this life There are many people who don't love, or even talk to their parents, siblings or other relatives. They choose not to. If you do love them then, it would seem to follow the same logic - you do so because you choose to. I don't think love is about desirable traits. Then how do couples select each other?
pureinheart Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 I learned as a child that love is not unconditional. There are always strings attached. If the other is sufficiently "in your own image" you can love them, otherwise not. I learned this also. Mostly in my adult life have seen this also, from many. I think there can be unconditional love, but mostly there is an agenda.
Silly_Girl Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 There are many people who don't love, or even talk to their parents, siblings or other relatives. They choose not to. If you do love them then, it would seem to follow the same logic - you do so because you choose to. I disagree. I think with family, usually, because of the growing process, we love them by default but events etc happen that changes that love. At 3 or at 15 for example I wasn't making a conscious choice to love or not love my parents.
cocorico Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 I disagree. I think with family, usually, because of the growing process, we love them by default but events etc happen that changes that love. At 3 or at 15 for example I wasn't making a conscious choice to love or not love my parents. I don't remember 3, but I do remover hating my family at 7. And 8. And since then, until early adulthood when I made the choice to let it go. 1
Owl Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 I didn't choose my sisters, parents, etc, yet I love them. Would you still love them if they started every morning by walking into your bedroom and breaking one of your fingers? If they laughed at your pain, treated you like human garbage, and did everything in their power to hurt you? If they felt that this was all that you deserved, if they hated your guts and made it their life's work to humiliate you? Would you still love them then...or would your FEELINGS of love for them fade, turn to anger, or hate, or desires for revenge? IMHO...love is ALWAYS conditional. You can't love someone who hates/desires to hurt you with all of their being. That love is conditional on the idea of that love being returned. 3
alexandria35 Posted July 27, 2012 Posted July 27, 2012 Would you still love them if they started every morning by walking into your bedroom and breaking one of your fingers? If they laughed at your pain, treated you like human garbage, and did everything in their power to hurt you? If they felt that this was all that you deserved, if they hated your guts and made it their life's work to humiliate you? Would you still love them then...or would your FEELINGS of love for them fade, turn to anger, or hate, or desires for revenge? IMHO...love is ALWAYS conditional. You can't love someone who hates/desires to hurt you with all of their being. That love is conditional on the idea of that love being returned. I agree. I didn't get to pick my family as a child but I do as an adult. Most of my family are quite loveable in spite of their quirks and flaws, but there is one close member of my family who I never see and I never want to see. He is a nasty abusive user who will take advantage of anyone who will let him.
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