Thunderbolt Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 MM and I just got back in contact after being in NC for almost 8 months. We haven't seen each other in over a year. We talked for the first time earlier this week and so many emotions have come flooding back for both of us. We have been emailing for the last several months but have only begun speaking on the phone this week. A little background. We've been on and off for about 6 years. The first 2.5 years were long distance. About a year after he moved back, he left his wife and kids and the wheels fell off the bus. We fought big time due to the stress of him being out of the house and into his own place. He missed his kids so much and probably missed his W too, although he denies the W part. He moved back home about 4 months later and it totally devastated me. Ever since then we've mostly been off, but had a couple brief periods where we sort of got back together. This last round of NC (8 months and over a year of not seeing each other) has by far been the longest period of time apart. I've had a lot of self-improvement over the last year and feel like I'm more emotionally sound than I've ever been. I've missed him tons over the last year but have somehow managed to get by without him in my life. Life has treated me pretty good lately, but I've always had this twinge of missing him deeply -- I've just not been able to completely get over him. He's expressed the same to me. I've done some thinking this past week since we've come in contact. I know I'm going to catch some flack for what I'm about to say, but I'm willing to take it. I've made up my mind to resume a relationship with him. Here's the catch -- and I know you'll all roll your eyes and laugh -- but, I truly and honestly just want to remain the other woman. I don't want him to leave his wife again and I don't want him to divorce. The last time he left home, it was such a disaster and I never want to go through that again. I've simply missed his friendship, his sense of humor and the love we made. Like I mentioned earlier, my life has been quite rewarding the last year or so, but it always feels like something is missing because he hasn't been in my life. I got to the point where I no longer cried or became depressed over the breakup, but I've thought about him and missed him every day for the last year. I know this is getting long, so I'll try to wrap it up. Like I stated earler, I've made up my mind to resume the A with him. I do not want him to D his wife -- I don't want to deal with his kids, wife, family and friends hating me. I don't think I'd live a very rewarding life if he were to leave his wife and marry me. I know that I'm not cut out to withstand the abuse I'd receive from everyone who'd be affected by his departure. I got a taste of it a couple years ago and it really sucked. So, my question might be geared towards anyone out there who is content with just being the OW/OM and nothing more. I just want it to be like it was at the beginning -- laughs, friendship and amazing sex. Has anyone been able to sustain this arrangement? And if so, how do you do it? Despite not wanting him to leave, I still believe I'm going to feel a bit beat up when he goes home to the wife, goes on vacations, etc. How can I overcome these feelings that will inevitably creep back in with time? For now, I plan on continuing to date others like I have been for the last year. Perhaps this will help. Thanks to anyone who can find it in their hearts to understand this. I know what I'm venturing out to do is highly immoral and most of you won't be excited to support me, but I've made a decision and hope to find some insight and suggestions. Thanks again.
Emme Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 Congrats on making a final decision and I wish you the best. I truly do. You can sustain having an affair with him if you choose to have a life of your own. That is one of the ways to do it. You being committed to him won't work. You will need a diversion. Another relationship, not dating. Good luck. You'll need it.
Author Thunderbolt Posted July 20, 2012 Author Posted July 20, 2012 Thanks Emme. Like you said, having a life of my own will be key. I do believe that I revolved my life around him in the past -- I'd drop anything and everything to be available to him. This needs to be different this time around. I know you suggest not dating other men, but I think I'm going to continue being open to the idea of it -- if something comes up that I'm interested in, I'm not going to turn him down. I would like to settle down and possibly have kids in the future. If I were to be completely honest, MM and I just wouldn't be able to cut it as husband and wife. I still love him more than any man I've ever known, but I think the last year of being away from him has made me face reality. We're quite different in many ways and I don't think we'd be able to sustain a lifetime together with both of us being completely happy. I just want him in my life right now. Seems weird, but I think I can handle this. No expectations, I just want to hold on and keep the good parts that completely slipped away from us when we got too serious.
Author Thunderbolt Posted July 20, 2012 Author Posted July 20, 2012 Hi, Lady Grey. Thanks for the response. It is true that I was in a relationship with an unattached man and was happy with him at the time. Unfortunately, we are no longer together. At the time, and several times throughout the last year, I had felt like the affair had been a mistake -- perhaps I've had a change of heart? I have been in a better place and I feel stronger than I have in years. But, the truth is, I'd rather have MM in my life in some capacity than not at all. In reality, it was a mistake to have ever started it in the first place -- 6 years ago. This I'm sure of. But I made the decision back then and I can't take it back. I know that it is rare for an OW/OM to be okay simply being the OW/OM and nothing more, which is why I started this thread. I've made the decision to try and have a relationship with him for now. I'm looking for ideas on how to make this work.
Emme Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 Speaking from experience, even if you have other relations it won't make you immune. I just want you to understand that. We are all looking out for you and I want you to know in advance... it's not easy. We can warn you all we want but in life I find that some people learn best by living. If you have to live to learn, so be it. Always remember to put yourself first. Why did you not choose a friendship? Why head straight back into the affair?
Author Thunderbolt Posted July 20, 2012 Author Posted July 20, 2012 I understand that there is a very high probability that I'm heading straight into a pit full of mud. Emme, I guess there's no reason to not believe that we will just start off as friends. I'd prefer it to start this way. He wanted to dive right back in, come to my house to spend the day with me, etc. I did put the brakes on a bit and suggested simply meeting for a drink to start out. People can change a lot in a year. Who's to say he hasn't gained a ton of weight, lost his charm and just doesn't make me laugh the way he used to? The physical and/or emotional spark just may not be there anymore. I guess this would solve a lot of potential heartbreak. I know you're both looking out for me, thank you. I've just missed this man so much in the last year. I've been able to suppress the pain as best as I could. But, I've still lived with the pain every day of not having him in my life. I've asked myself many times, "if I'm going to live everyday with a sense of loss and pain anyway, why not endure this same feeling and actually have him in my life?" It hurts bad when we're in NC -- I can suppress the pain for periods of time, but it always creeps back in when I'm least expecting it.
Tenacity Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 Well, I certainly understand how you feel, from way too much personal experience. My initial intent was to pose a question to you and ask if you were thinking that this would be basically a 'friends with benefits' sort of A (because of your stating that you simply missed his friendship, his making you laugh, and the sex) or if there would be emotional involvement. I think though, based on your last couple of posts, that you are still emotionally involved. I think (all moral arguments aside - it's no one's place to judge others here) that an A can work if both parties are okay with not being emotionally involved and it is basically a 'friends with benefits' type scenario. Another way it can work (and I use the word 'work' here loosely - but, another way that it can remain a long-term A) when one person is married and the other is not, is if the single person accepts the limitations of the A. And to do that, I think it means that you have to give up any hope that you will have a future with someone else. I think that being emotionally involved and in a relationship with a married man long-term is going to preclude your being able to be emotionally available to anyone else. Meaning, you won't likely be interested in dating, and you won't be falling in love with anyone else while still in love and in a relationship with this man. So I think you can make it work if you are ready to accept either of those limitations (no emotional involvement, or giving up plans for a future husband/family while involved in this A). I don't see how you can have it all. I would also suggest that if you do date other men while in this A, that you be honest with them about your being in another relationship. It is only fair. I understand your feelings totally. I just see a lot of emotion still involved with this guy on your part, and I hope that you don't end up back where you were before. I do know how terribly hard it is.
scatterd Posted July 20, 2012 Posted July 20, 2012 if this happens again to you wont you feel like a fool.His wife will be watching for signs more then ever. which means you will most likely get caught. If you think they were mad then just wait you might get the whole thing and be on the other side wishing you listened.
2sunny Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 I think your lying to yourself. There's no reason to sell yourself short... Yet you are. You will never be open to an available man as long as the MM is distracting you - he knows this. 20 or 30 years from now - come back and let us know how it feels to shortchange your youth. 1
MissBee Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Just like I don't believe FWB works...I have to be honest and say that there is little way to do this and not get hurt. Is he THAT great? I mean really...there is no other man in life that you can possibly be with, except this one who has a limited capacity to be there for you? You made your choice and I won't dissuade you. It's familiar to me. The bargaining with self until you settle for something because you feel it's better than nothing. You do it until your own wheels fall off...i.e. until you yourself get super tired or hurt by it and learn from the burn. I don't wish you hurt at all by the way, I'm just saying that sometimes I do think it is futile to warn people, and experience works better. So what if his wife finds out? Even if you don't want him to leave her right...if she finds out and demands he stop talking to you and he abruptly cuts you off, then what? Your relationship will always be mediated by others. His wife and family, mediate your relationship, and if they find out or it starts to threaten that...under the bus you go. That's a very unsteady dynamic IMO.It just seems like there is a no win, because you'll be attached to his friendship, sex and everything----you already are, as if you weren't you'd not go back to him after 8 months of NC. So sorry you're already attached and resuming a relationship will only give that attachment more hold. I suppose you can diversify your dating portfolio to provide buffer..but in my experience, when I did that, it was superficial. Even though I dated other people, I was more emotionally invested in my AP, so if things broke up with us it would hurt me way more than anything with the others. I truly didn't care for and wasnt attached to any of the other people I dated and although I never wanted him to leave either...it didn't change my feelings and I eventually would get frustrated hurt and ended it for good. 4
whichwayisup Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Why not be alone? Why go backwards and start up the affair again when you've been in NC? Being alone means you get to heal. Being alone means you don't go on the rollercoaster ride and emotions of an affair..Again. You're going to do what you're going to do, but my suggestion for you is not to be with any man for a while just to catch your breath and enjoy life.
jwi71 Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Well, what's going to be different this time around? What changes have YOU made internally to allow your to now succeed as only the OW whereas before you failed? Based on all your posts in this thread...its a disaster waiting to happen - you even have a sense of that. Yet you go anyway. Nothing really to be said...its just history repeating itself and you are bound and determined to again be the OW.
2sunny Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 My wish for you is that you would value yourself not to settle for so little. 2
MissBee Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Maybe it's loneliness post-breakup speaking.... Maybe you're drawing for a rebound...and Lord knows rebounds always seem like they will make your life better---until they don't
Author Thunderbolt Posted July 21, 2012 Author Posted July 21, 2012 Ladies, I know that what I've proposed sounds so ridiculous. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson from being in this tug of war for the last 6 years. I'm not going to try and defend myself in any way because everything you've all said is valid and true. I know that just because I don't want him to leave again won't protect me from heartbreak. But, almost from the beginning, the plan was for him to leave his W this time it's not. Scattered, you are so right -- if I'm not careful I just might end up with what I don't want -- him by default. The first day we talked on the phone, he called me a second time later on right before I went to bed proclaiming that he wanted to make this work and that he needed to find a way to get divorced and marry me. It kind of sent a shock through my body and a part of me was scared that he was going to march inside and tell his wife. I could tell that he had been drinking and I was so scared he was going to do something we'd both regret. Luckily, he hasn't really gone back to that conversation. I don't plan on ever bringing it up. I will never ask him to leave his W. I know that best thing for me is to leave him behind. But, I guess I'll have to learn the hard way. I want to see him and see what's still there. While I really appreciate all the advice, right now I'm looking for advice on how I can be happy simply being the other woman. I've dated a lot of men in the last year and just haven't found anything that makes me feel even close to how I felt with MM. I've even had a couple semi long term relationships and they just didn't do it for me.
whichwayisup Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 My wish for you is that you would value yourself not to settle for so little. I agree. You think you need this man and can't live without him. You seem afraid of the pain, afraid of going on with your life and truly letting go. As long as he's in your life, you will NEVER get close to another man, let alone fall in love with someone else. You can say you'll 'date' other men while being the OW, keeping things casual but that won't last long. You must know this. Why are you OK settling and being second fiddle? Sure right now you say you're okay with that, but your emotions, your heart will want more. It'll just happen as time goes along, you'll have hopes and expectations, ones he can never ever meet because he has no plans on divorcing his wife. Also, be prepared for a possible dday, then how are you going to feel when he throws you under the bus, ends things with you? 1
2sunny Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Ladies, I know that what I've proposed sounds so ridiculous. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson from being in this tug of war for the last 6 years. I'm not going to try and defend myself in any way because everything you've all said is valid and true. I know that just because I don't want him to leave again won't protect me from heartbreak. But, almost from the beginning, the plan was for him to leave his W this time it's not. Scattered, you are so right -- if I'm not careful I just might end up with what I don't want -- him by default. The first day we talked on the phone, he called me a second time later on right before I went to bed proclaiming that he wanted to make this work and that he needed to find a way to get divorced and marry me. It kind of sent a shock through my body and a part of me was scared that he was going to march inside and tell his wife. I could tell that he had been drinking and I was so scared he was going to do something we'd both regret. Luckily, he hasn't really gone back to that conversation. I don't plan on ever bringing it up. I will never ask him to leave his W. I know that best thing for me is to leave him behind. But, I guess I'll have to learn the hard way. I want to see him and see what's still there. While I really appreciate all the advice, right now I'm looking for advice on how I can be happy simply being the other woman. I've dated a lot of men in the last year and just haven't found anything that makes me feel even close to how I felt with MM. I've even had a couple semi long term relationships and they just didn't do it for me. You are making so many justifications for such little decency - for a man who loves you, this would never be necessary to YOU to compromise yourself.
whichwayisup Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 I know that best thing for me is to leave him behind. But, I guess I'll have to learn the hard way. I want to see him and see what's still there. While I really appreciate all the advice, right now I'm looking for advice on how I can be happy simply being the other woman. I've dated a lot of men in the last year and just haven't found anything that makes me feel even close to how I felt with MM. I've even had a couple semi long term relationships and they just didn't do it for me. I hope you change your mind but it seems like your mind is made up to continue the affair with him. Accept your role as the OW. Nothing more, nothing less. Enjoy it for what it is and don't rely on him for much. Don't put him first and do not put your own life on hold (waiting by the phone, cancelling plans if he calls you and wants to see you - Say no and go ahead with your own plans!) don't bail on your friends and family because he may call and want to spend the weekend with you. He certainly won't put you first above his wife and kids. Believe that!! Do your best to not let your emotions and heart take over. 1
2sure Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 I thought about this post for hours while I was out and about today. I don't feel lately that I'm qualified to give advice about much ...and over the years because Ive stuck around (or because I'm stuck) I've come to see and say the same things over and over again. You only need to read the forums to know the answers , especially regarding OW. But anyway....you seem so...You need advice. You need to be here. And clearly you know that. You're asking. So, I. Going to give you my thoughts. I used to be OW, several times. You're asking if you can be happy with being OW and not wishing for more. The answer is Yes, of course, sure. I did it for years. at the time I didn't feel ready for a full time relationship, I didn't want the commitment, I wasn't ready to trust. I did want affection, a good friend, and to feel wonderful when I had the chance. MM did that for me. I never became attached. I moved from one to another very easily because I liked them a lot, enjoyed them very much, maybe loved one a bit, but never wanted any of them for keeps. You can't do that. You are already emotionally invested. Period. You can't have a FWB situation with someone you are more than friends with. You can't be OW to someone that you wish, when you're alone, was with you. When I was OW as I described above I thought I was empowered, I thought I was in control, I thought actually that I was keeping myself safe. In fact, I was robbing myself in some ways because I became comfortable with that distance, that disassociation, the non expectation of a future beyond a vacation. Plus, I learned to have a general mistrust of the world as far as intimate relationships. If I could do it, fake it, anyone could. If MM could do it, as wonderful as I found him...then, what does integrity look like? I still don't know. My man picker is Broken. But back to you...you are stronger and happier now than you were when you with him....because you haven't been with him. If I knew you, if I were you friend, I would stop you from hurting yourself this way. Some OW can do it. You can't. And please believe me, you don't want to. 4
whichwayisup Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 I wish Lizzie was here to help guide you with this. She actually is the perfect person to give you advice.
MissBee Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 I don't think anyone can give you tips on being happy though...that really is up to your own feelings and your own powers of compartmentalization etc. However, clearly I wasn't good at being an OW, so perhaps others can help in that regard. My true opinion though is if one has to ask for tips on being happy in their problematic relationship...that means they themselves feel it is a problem, so any advice would include them deluding themselves. Basically taking a shot of delusional tequila/vodka to lose all inhibitions so you can party now....and probably have a hangover later. I was involved with another committed guy once. That didn't amount in any pain for me because I wasn't emotionally attached to him, did not conduct it like a relationship (i.e. we did not spend hours texting or talking on the phone, didn't share deep feelings, basically we didn't have a friendship in the true sense) and basically...we flirted, had banter, went out and then had sex. Then I wouldn't really talk to him until the next time we both wanted to hook up. I didn't ever want to date him, didn't think about him romantically (only sexually) and I ended it when I didn't want that anymore and wanted a real boyfriend. The reason it worked was because it was only about sex and the casual hang out. I didn't ever get confused and treat him like a boyfriend. I didn't tell him sweet nothing, send morning texts, call him nicknames, fantasize about a life with him, I felt no jealousy about his gf or about any woman he possibly saw and could take or leave him. I just liked the sex. I didn't and don't even really consider that as being the OW. So those are ways to be happy and enjoy it for what it's worth. But I failed miserably in my actual A, where I acted like his gf, where I loved him, was attached to him, wanted more, got jealous, shared emotional intimacy etc. There was no way for me to be authentic and happy being in an A with a man I actually loved and it was very confusing to my psyche to act like a couple with the A as a dynamic blaring. With the other situation it was cut and dry. 1
2sunny Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 I wish Lizzie was here to help guide you with this. She actually is the perfect person to give you advice. Lizzie always suggested not compromising happiness for any man. She was also capable of keeping emotion out of it. This poster isn't in that position right now. Sacrificing your future for any man isn't healthy balance or a wise choice.
2sunny Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Would you encourage this situation on your sister or best girlfriend?
MissBee Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 With my exAP he was too much of someone that I was compatible with and would date if he were single, for us to have a casual A. I think he thought he could have a casual A with me too, but found that I was someone he could fall inlove with and did fall inlove with me. It is very difficult, if not impossible to have a casual A and be happy, with a person you can fall inlove with. Likewise with a FWB, if that friend is someone you can fall inlove with, you almost always do. Then when you're inlove, you inevitably want more. So my advice is only have an A with a man you aren't in love with and don't feel strongly for, but can enjoy casually and sexually, with very little other strong emotions attached.
Author Thunderbolt Posted July 21, 2012 Author Posted July 21, 2012 There's nothing I can say here, short of, "I'll take everyone's advice and completely cut him out of my life forever," that will be acceptable to you all. It's hard to just flip the switch off. I can't just read a few responses and finally "see the light." I came here to get some suggestions on how to lead a happy life as the OW. Obviously, nobody has succeeded at that on this forum thus far tonight. I'm not really getting the answers I'm seeking. I know it's highly likely that I will crash and burn, come back here only to be told "I told you so." Thank you all for taking the time to write to me tonight. Your comments have not gone unnoticed and I will re-read them all and sleep on it tonight. I'm tired of defending myself and having every post shot down. I know I'm probably making the wrong choice with MM, but I guess I'll have to learn the hard way. Thanks again everyone...
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