Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Yep. And you of course recognize that the scene is one of the most memorable in the world. All those people have that memory & experience, good and bad....by taking chances and opportunities. Whereas your way you will have none to look back on. Dare you? If you were in my presence I would put you in the position of living life before you could get your analyzation machine going. Now I'm done dancing with you. I'm going to go kiss the girl that wants to live and take a chance.... and you recognize that I have nothing to prove here. Taking a chance or not taking a chance. It's just another choice on the road of life. Jumping off a cliff with a parachute is 'fun'. Jumping without a parachute is suicidal. Calculated risk = balance Edited July 25, 2012 by RedRobin
MrNate 2.0 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 and you recognize that I have nothing to prove here. Taking a chance or not taking a chance. It's just another choice on the road of life. Jumping off a cliff with a parachute is 'fun'. Jumping without a parachute is suicidal. Calculated risk = balance Ah, and I am a stranger you who doesn't know your last name. I'll just call you Robin. I'm a short pm away.
thatone Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) I'm not opposed to 'making moves'. I want and need affection and want the progression of intimacy (both physical and emotional) as well. This has come up in other threads... but I get the impression that anytime sex doesn't happen by the 3rd-5th date that you assume you are in the friendzone. It is just as likely that they saw something that indicated you two weren't compatible. I get it that guys wanna 'get some' before the icky parts of their personalities come shining through. Can't blame them. But a truly high character guy knows he is... and has standards of his own. Doncha think? Why would a high character guy want to jump in the sack with a woman HE hardly knows... or be in a position to. Are they really that foolish? Or are the consequences for making a poor decision just not that terrible for guys? I think the latter. They go for quick sex because they can (no matter who they are), and the consequences are minimal no matter how it turns out. Lucky men.... ...but this is why I am not flattered or impressed one bit by a guy wanting to have sex with me before we've established any real intimacy. It says nothing about me or his feelings about me... all it does is put sex on a 'timer' and kills that feeling of specialness and caring. That's how it feels. because sex doesn't mean anything to men, it means a lot more to you, clearly (and other women as well). the only thing sex 'means' to men is also all about you, and not them. if you're willing and ready to have sex with us it means you are not trying to find an excuse to disappear and go find some other dude (you clearly are, look at your pattern with this guy). that's why sex is the litmus test men use. there will be no commitment until sex, no exceptions. because if the girl isn't having sex with me she can have one foot in the door the entire time and leave at any time. she has no investment until then. the act of sex itself is nothing really, sex is easy to find, after all. it's not men who are scared of committing to you, it's you who are scared of committing to them. and if they haven't given you anything to be afraid of, that isn't fair to them and no one likes being treated unfairly. Now I get it. But you are wrong. Hoping for sex early on while dating is completely different from remaining faithful while in a committed relationship. Many adults see nothing wrong with some casual sex when single, but very much wrong with cheating while in a relationship. Delaying sex does not necessarily mean more virtuous. i agree completely. i've never cheated on a girl while in a relationship. right before i met my current gf i have left one girl sleeping in my bed, moved her car out of my way, and gone to meet another one at her place in the same night, though, for an example. and both of them knew i was not going to have a relationship with either of them. my gf and i have been together for 6 months, have met all of each other's friends/family, i do things alone with her teenage daughter all the time, and we're planning on moving in together in the next few months when i get my current house sold. we had sex for the first time the weekend we first met. /shrug if anything, denying men sex early in a relationship makes the entire relationship about sex until sex is out of the way. saying no gets the exact situation you DON'T want. Edited July 25, 2012 by thatone
Emilia Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 if anything, denying men sex early in a relationship makes the entire relationship about sex until sex is out of the way. Paradoxically this is true in my experience.
ThaWholigan Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Paradoxically this is true in my experience. And which is probably why RedRobin is still searching for a man who doesn't want it early, where it doesn't feel like he's just "waiting". I understand that she wishes not to compromise in a way. It's a very extremist way of looking at it though, in the sense that there's no middle ground, and if she gives it up early, she doesn't respect the man. Which is why she talks about switching completely to a casual lifestyle for good. Again, extreme......but if she really feels that way and wishes not to alter that viewpoint, then it's probably better all-round if she continues to search.
Emilia Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 And which is probably why RedRobin is still searching for a man who doesn't want it early, where it doesn't feel like he's just "waiting". I understand that she wishes not to compromise in a way. It's a very extremist way of looking at it though, in the sense that there's no middle ground, and if she gives it up early, she doesn't respect the man. Which is why she talks about switching completely to a casual lifestyle for good. Again, extreme......but if she really feels that way and wishes not to alter that viewpoint, then it's probably better all-round if she continues to search. It's not waiting as such though in a sense that she is 'giving it up' (I really hate that term, makes women sound like we are pawns in chess or something), it's more waiting as in both anticipating it and knowing that for a lot of people it's an issue. It is also a big step, I agree. There is also a lot of curiousity. It's not waiting in a negative sense that the guy gets what he wants when the woman FINALLY gives in. Sex and respect should not be related to each other as concepts this way. It's nothing but self-repression. Almost a religious attitude
Drseussgrrl Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I also had sex with my dude the second night we hung out (same weekend). It was then that we felt that there was something pretty special between us worth exploring more. Don't regret it for a minute. And while we have a very active and adventurous sex life, it has only served to enhance all of the other wonderful facets of our relationship that we are uncovering. 1
Emilia Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Have to say I'm also a great believer in early sex partly because I'm comfortable with intimacy and partly because to me sexual compatibility is as important as any other kind. To me it's inseparable from the relationship I have with the other person, it's as part of it as caring about his lifestyle meshing with mine or having similar values. Values come into sex very strongly too by the way. I don't get the animosity towards it all. 1
Emilia Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 ... and yes, I do think waiting (if looking for a LTR) is the best choice for long term happiness... For both men and women. Not even close 1
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Good for both of you... Sex without intimacy... the kind of intimacy you get from knowing someone outside the bedroom... is boring for me. It isn't a value judgement. I know that when I've done it (had sex early) I stopped caring about the guy practically immediately. Nothing he did made a difference after that. The guy becomes little more than a walking dildo... with the guy ending up feeling hurt and confused... and me dealing with his drama and BS from his friends. So, boring... for me. Bad for the guys who push it with me. If you want to write a treatise about the value of early sex, start your own damn thread. This isn't about YOU.
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 we had sex for the first time the weekend we first met. Good for her... and the way you talk about her and how proud you are of your ability to lie... I'd say she made a poor decision and is in for a world of hurt someday when you decide to pull the plug and move on to the next town. ... but that is her choice.
Drseussgrrl Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Here we go with the crazy assumptions again. Just because a relationship starts out with hot sex does NOT mean I feel the need to move on once it inevitably slows down. In fact, that chemistry is like glue that keeps things together when the going gets rough. And actually, I'm not the one who "stopped caring about the guy practically immediately. Nothing he did made a difference after that."
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Here we go with the crazy assumptions again. Just because a relationship starts out with hot sex does NOT mean I feel the need to move on once it inevitably slows down. In fact, that chemistry is like glue that keeps things together when the going gets rough. And actually, I'm not the one who "stopped caring about the guy practically immediately. Nothing he did made a difference after that." Good. Then we agree then. You do what works for you... I'll do what works for me.
Lonely Ronin Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 You do what works for you... I'll do what works for me. If your method works so well for you, why are you here complaining about it? This entire thread pretty much seems like you getting grumpy because the world doesn't work the way you want it to. Or more specifically the guys you are/where interested in don't act the way you want them to. I know that when I've done it (had sex early) I stopped caring about the guy practically immediately. Nothing he did made a difference after that. The guy becomes little more than a walking dildo... with the guy ending up feeling hurt and confused... and me dealing with his drama and BS from his friends. You realize you sound exactly like the PUA guys that some women here complain about right? 2
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) because sex doesn't mean anything to men, it means a lot more to you, clearly (and other women as well). That is where you are wrong. Sex means nothing to me. I can be just as cruel and heartless about it as any man. I've (so far) chosen not to be... for a number of reasons. First of all, I don't enjoy hurting people and second... I find it boring. Third, it is just stupid, risky behavior. I have other outlets for that. the only thing sex 'means' to men is also all about you, and not them. if you're willing and ready to have sex with us it means you are not trying to find an excuse to disappear and go find some other dude (you clearly are, look at your pattern with this guy). You contradict your first statement right here. You think that having sex with a woman means she's locked in with you... when there are plenty of women who don't bond that way. That, and you've never suffered the negative consequences of having sex with a near stranger and having it turn out very negatively. Most men haven't. A few here have... They've gotten stalked, or had fake harrassment charges filed against them... or ended up getting their *ss kicked by an angry ex... have that happen to you once. I bet you'd take more care than you do... or have. that's why sex is the litmus test men use. there will be no commitment until sex, no exceptions. because if the girl isn't having sex with me she can have one foot in the door the entire time and leave at any time. she has no investment until then. No. They use sex as a litmus test because they are selfish and insecure. the act of sex itself is nothing really, sex is easy to find, after all. Good, I'm glad you think so... then there should be no need for pressure, should there?? it's not men who are scared of committing to you, it's you who are scared of committing to them. and if they haven't given you anything to be afraid of, that isn't fair to them and no one likes being treated unfairly. Ah ha! But I don't know them well enough to know if I have a reason to be 'afraid' of them or not. Which is why I wait. F*cking them will certainly not do a thing to help me out there... if anything, denying men sex early in a relationship makes the entire relationship about sex until sex is out of the way. saying no gets the exact situation you DON'T want. Only for men who don't care about real intimacy. What it does get is them GONE if they can't tell the difference. Edited July 25, 2012 by RedRobin
ThaWholigan Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Do you hate men? I'm being serious here. I doubt it, probably just high standards. 1
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 If your method works so well for you, why are you here complaining about it? I'm not complaining about it. I'm disappointed in the guy I started seeing for pushing sex. I'm allowed to be disappointed. This entire thread pretty much seems like you getting grumpy because the world doesn't work the way you want it to. Or more specifically the guys you are/where interested in don't act the way you want them to. No. The thread evolved into one where people who enjoy having sex with people they hardly know trying to convince me that's the way to go. You realize you sound exactly like the PUA guys that some women here complain about right? If I were having casual sex, I'd agree with you. But I'm not. I'm just explaining why I wait. There is a big difference between explaining and complaining...
Drseussgrrl Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Nobody is trying to convince you it's the way to go if you're uncomfortable with it. Simply that you need to stop demonizing men who want to have sex with you early on. LOTS of great guys will want to have sex with you as you're still getting to know each other. There is nothing wrong with this. 3
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Do you hate men? I'm being serious here. If I hated men, I'd f*ck them carelessly... just like you do.... while also seeing other men too, and having other men take me out without telling them I'm seeing other men. yea... if I reeeallly hated men, I'd behave more like you. I'm being serious here.
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Nobody is trying to convince you it's the way to go if you're uncomfortable with it. Simply that you need to stop demonizing men who want to have sex with you early on. LOTS of great guys will want to have sex with you as you're still getting to know each other. There is nothing wrong with this. I'm not demonizing them. I'm just not interested in dating men who clearly are not listening to me and have some other agenda besides getting to know me... It's no big deal. We just aren't compatible.
Drseussgrrl Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Haha what? I f*ck men carelessly? Please reference. And yep, I did have a drink with another dude BEFORE my bf and I discussed exclusivity. And I was above board with everyone about it. Clearly, my dating style has worked for me because I'm in a committed relationship with a great guy. Which is more than you can say.
xxoo Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I'm not complaining about it. I'm disappointed in the guy I started seeing for pushing sex. I'm allowed to be disappointed. He invited you over for a movie. He didn't push for sex. If you'd declined, and offered a dinner date, and he enthusiastically accepted, would you still feel he was pushing sex? Is suggesting the same as pushing? I think that is the reason most of us are defending this guy. Also, you keep saying that sex without intimacy is boring (I agree), but also say that you are tired of being the one to show restraint. If it is so boring, why the need for restraint? If you need to exercise so much restraint--maybe it wouldn't be so boring 2
Lonely Ronin Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I'm disappointed in the guy I started seeing for pushing sex. I'm allowed to be disappointed. Perhaps I missed it, but from what I can tell you have no real proof of this. It seems like you are making assumptions about his intentions, based on who his friends are, who you think he is based on what you have learned about him on two dates, and your own personal history/issues with other men. If I were having casual sex, I'd agree with you. But I'm not. I'm just explaining why I wait. I know that when I've done it (had sex early) I stopped caring about the guy practically immediately. Nothing he did made a difference after that. The guy becomes little more than a walking dildo... I'm not suggesting, you not wait. I was trying to point out the fact that your way of reacting to have sex to early is not normal and kind of disturbing. It's not normal, because it's been proven physical closeness increases emotional bonding. This is why most people freak out when having sex to early. They had sex and started forming an emotional bond with someone, and then they worry what the other person thinks of them, because they don't want to lose that person. Your response is the extreme opposite. You're repulsed, and don't even see the person as a person anymore (the disturbing part). That's not a normal response for either gender. Some of your responses on this thread don't add up, hence the reason I think Drseussgrrl asked if you hate men.
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