Author RedRobin Posted July 24, 2012 Author Posted July 24, 2012 Yep, this is where an assessment of their relationship and marital history is important, along with observing their familial relations. Each person has a particular and unique style of managing their relationships and making choices within them. Your example, a person having casual sex during their 'single' time between LTR's or M's and then 'switching' to complete monogamy within them is definitely possible and could be considered a style of interaction. Does it match up in a healthy way with their relationships and with their prospective partner's style of conducting relationships? What I'm hearing from the OP is that she has concerns about these style differences and how they are manifested in actions which she perceives. Part of that equation is the actions themselves and part is her perception, the latter of which is a function of her own style of interaction. IMO, if she wishes to progress with a careful and deliberate man, one who doesn't engage in casual sex while single and wishes to 'go slow' with her, that will limit her dating pool significantly, as such behaviors are increasingly outlier in modern society. Heck, they were even outlier when I was young. If she can accept that and dismiss incompatible potentials without prejudice, meaning without negative feelings and thoughts regarding the interactions, then I think the style could have traction within a larger demographic of potentials. Hence, IMO she'll need to expand her dating horizons to societal/social circles which tend to embrace the style she is seeking. OP, my apologies if already answered...if you were to poll your male friends regarding this particular dynamic, the 'styles' discussed in my post, where would your male friends fall, more to the 'crazy' side, or more to the careful and deliberate side? Would you find their styles to be more, or less, synergistic with your own? Good question. Most of my male friends have been married for years. Decades even. They did some messing around in their early years before they met their wives... but that period was relatively short-lived. Their history is dominated by LTR's... as is their style. The 'messing around' seemed to be more about learning what their style was... and having a few failed attempts at relationships perhaps. The single (and younger) ones are also somewhat deliberate. They don't multi-date. They haven't made a habit of sleeping with women they aren't interested in having a LTR with. Like my older friends, the 'messing around' came about in a period of their lives when they were still experimenting and trying to understand relationships. This is probably why I have no tolerance for the 3 date rule and those who are still messing around with casual sex. I personally view it as a sign of immaturity (if done thoughtlessly). If done deliberately, then I view them as someone who has bonding issues when it comes to sex and separates love and sex too well. I wouldn't trust them. TBH, I don't ask alot of questions about what they do in between relationships. The casual sex thing came up because I was considering making a lifestyle choice for myself that involved ONLY casual sex... not casual sex while I'm looking for a relationship. If I were to go down the casual sex path as a lifestyle, it would seal the deal on forever dividing sex and 'love'... and ending any ability for me to feel truly intimate with a man that way again.... But that is just because I know how I am... and I know that it is possible for me... so it is a decision I wouldn't take lightly. Regarding a man's past, I'm more concerned about how past relationships started (was it monkey-branching, gained by pilfering/cheating/dishonesty), what they do while in a relationship, and how the relationship ended. These are not things I expect to be able to sort out on or before the 3rd date Although, I can get a sense of their style and how they conducted things fairly soon. Hopefully that clears things up...
Woggle Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 I understand the restraint thing in men and women for that matter. You want somebody that understands self control because that is the person much less likely to cheat down the road when temptation rears it's head. 2
Author RedRobin Posted July 24, 2012 Author Posted July 24, 2012 I understand the restraint thing in men and women for that matter. You want somebody that understands self control because that is the person much less likely to cheat down the road when temptation rears it's head. Exactly!!!!
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 It all depends on their style. A lot of men are also unfaithful. While women may *feel* less impulse to indulge when in a relationship due to abundance of offers within and without, men *feel* in a different way than women do, especially men who have abundance. Many public examples can be cited. If their fear of consequences of indulgence overrides their desire for it, then a balance of sorts can be struck. That said...good question for the OP.... what kind of 'dance' do *you* find attractive? The men I'm interested in typically have 'abundance'... and therefore, a need for virtue. To the extent they have learned to manage it, and find their own inner compass... I'm interested in that. Perfection there isn't even required. They just need to demonstrate it to me. As they say, "with great freedom, comes great responsibility" My dance? I don't have a timetable... but I'd appreciate men who took some effort to investigate and validate compatibility before I'm being pressured for sex. I've posted in other threads that I love affection. When I'm interested in a man, he knows it. I'm not shy that way. I'm also not pornographic about it either. Confession?? I still have doubts about him, his lifestyle, and the group he hangs out with. I haven't had sex in over a year... I've had plenty of offers, but I know what I'm looking for. TBH, I don't trust MYSELF to go over to his house. I KNOW he wants sex... but I can't do it. Can't go over there... Can't trust myself or him. ... and yes... it annoys me to be put in this position!!! The position where I even need to worry about this. I WISH for once I could spend time with a man where we are enjoying each other's company and not feel like *I* am the only person that has to exercise restraint. GRRRR! 1
ThaWholigan Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 The men I'm interested in typically have 'abundance'... and therefore, a need for virtue. To the extent they have learned to manage it, and find their own inner compass... I'm interested in that. Perfection there isn't even required. They just need to demonstrate it to me. As they say, "with great freedom, comes great responsibility" My dance? I don't have a timetable... but I'd appreciate men who took some effort to investigate and validate compatibility before I'm being pressured for sex. I've posted in other threads that I love affection. When I'm interested in a man, he knows it. I'm not shy that way. I'm also not pornographic about it either. Confession?? I still have doubts about him, his lifestyle, and the group he hangs out with. I haven't had sex in over a year... I've had plenty of offers, but I know what I'm looking for. TBH, I don't trust MYSELF to go over to his house. I KNOW he wants sex... but I can't do it. Can't go over there... Can't trust myself or him. ... and yes... it annoys me to be put in this position!!! The position where I even need to worry about this. I WISH for once I could spend time with a man where we are enjoying each other's company and not feel like *I* am the only person that has to exercise restraint. GRRRR! This post I empathize with, not because I have experienced it, but because I understand it and why you do what you do. For what it's worth, I reckon that way can be just as passionate and all-encompassing as the more lustful, swift encounters, and it appeals to me, being the versatile character I pride myself on being. I think the misconception that people may have is that this indicates a dislike of sex but I don't get that from what you have posted. I have an understanding of the men and why they push for things quickly, but I also get where you're coming from about restraint. Honestly, whenever I have spoken about such things briefly, it's often been dismissed as "gay" . Nonetheless, it still appeals to me. I think you should continue to do what you do. Perhaps not be so terse about things, but I reiterate that you should stick to your guns. 1
Lonely Ronin Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 TBH, I don't trust MYSELF to go over to his house. I KNOW he wants sex... but I can't do it. Can't go over there... Can't trust myself or him. This makes a lot more sense.
xxoo Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I understand the restraint thing in men and women for that matter. You want somebody that understands self control because that is the person much less likely to cheat down the road when temptation rears it's head. Haven't you posted about your "player" stage, Wog? Before marriage, and after divorce, some people want and need to sow wild oats. Doesn't make the any less trustworthy in a relationship. Robin, why do you feel you need to exercise restraint? I'm sure the people you respect, in solid marriages, had moments of weakness and casual pleasure when single, too. They just didn't make a life of it, and you don't need to, either. Saints are uncommon among adults
StrangeBehaviors Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 The men I'm interested in typically have 'abundance'... and therefore, a need for virtue. To the extent they have learned to manage it, and find their own inner compass... I'm interested in that. Perfection there isn't even required. They just need to demonstrate it to me. As they say, "with great freedom, comes great responsibility" My dance? I don't have a timetable... but I'd appreciate men who took some effort to investigate and validate compatibility before I'm being pressured for sex. I've posted in other threads that I love affection. When I'm interested in a man, he knows it. I'm not shy that way. I'm also not pornographic about it either. Confession?? I still have doubts about him, his lifestyle, and the group he hangs out with. I haven't had sex in over a year... I've had plenty of offers, but I know what I'm looking for. TBH, I don't trust MYSELF to go over to his house. I KNOW he wants sex... but I can't do it. Can't go over there... Can't trust myself or him. ... and yes... it annoys me to be put in this position!!! The position where I even need to worry about this. I WISH for once I could spend time with a man where we are enjoying each other's company and not feel like *I* am the only person that has to exercise restraint. GRRRR! I didn't read much of the responses. From this post alone though- You don't seem like you're living at all. Now I'm gonna' put you in an unfair position. If your reaction is to defend what you call "living" by saying you do this or don't wan to do that, it just continues to feed the cycle. Unfair, I know. We're all dying every second. Wanna' keep analyzing and finding something wrong, putting it in the categories that you understand and make you comfortable? Or do you want to live?
carhill Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 TBH, I don't trust MYSELF to go over to his house. I KNOW he wants sex... but I can't do it. Can't go over there... Can't trust myself or him. Why not have an honest conversation about that? 1
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Why not have an honest conversation about that? ... because I still have things I need to check out about his lifestyle and group. It is my experience that this is best done discreetly. Most people tend to be their most authentic selves when they are not under scrutiny. Hence my regret at not taking more time to observe him. Granted, some of my misgivings came about because of things he told me... and the way he drew me into the group drama. At this point, I think it might be best to share my real concern first... and that is the concern I had in the beginning... about perceptions regarding lifestyle. I'd rather do so in a neutral environment... funny side note though... I asked one of my male friends about the 3rd date movie at the house and what did he think... (ok, full-disclosure, he is technically my EX... but don't get started on that!) He suggested the DRIVE IN movie! How funny is that?! A choice of make-out fans since the beginning of time. But being public, it does tend to discourage the full-on... which is my point here. I told him what I mentioned above... that I'm sex-starved and would probably screw a hunch-back as long as his teeth were still intact. he laughed and said "In that case, I have lots of suggestions for you!" hilarious.... He also reminded me that this is how he and I got started way back when... and we never did finish watching "It's a Wonderful Life" See? I know how I am. (note: he is in a relationship with a very nice woman for over a year now... They are talking marriage). Edited July 25, 2012 by RedRobin
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 I didn't read much of the responses. From this post alone though- You don't seem like you're living at all. Now I'm gonna' put you in an unfair position. If your reaction is to defend what you call "living" by saying you do this or don't wan to do that, it just continues to feed the cycle. Unfair, I know. We're all dying every second. Wanna' keep analyzing and finding something wrong, putting it in the categories that you understand and make you comfortable? Or do you want to live? ah... yes... I've had this same optimism at times. consequences ARE a b*tch though. One imagines they can manage all challenges, and it is easy to feel invincible... until one actually has to go through them. There is a danger if one leans towards risk taking as a somewhat crippled death wish. Balance is the key.
carhill Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 You still have drive-ins around? Cool. I'm still a bit nonplussed about the sleuthing. How about.... 'At this point, I don't feel I know you well enough to come over to your house at night to watch a movie. I'd prefer to not leave any impression that I'm interested in sex at this point in getting to know you and my agreeing to this might leave such an impression. How do you feel about that?' See how the response matches up with his comments about his group as well as with your boundaries and sensibilities regarding the interaction. With what I recall of his prior comments he doesn't appear to be a 'smooth talker', so you just might get an transparent discourse going. Is your style to talk about sex before engaging in sex? I don't mean breathy words in the moment, but rather frank talk about STD's, feelings, etc. This opinion presumes LTR-centric focus. If I missed something in that regard, apologies.
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 This post I empathize with, not because I have experienced it, but because I understand it and why you do what you do. For what it's worth, I reckon that way can be just as passionate and all-encompassing as the more lustful, swift encounters, and it appeals to me, being the versatile character I pride myself on being. I think the misconception that people may have is that this indicates a dislike of sex but I don't get that from what you have posted. I have an understanding of the men and why they push for things quickly, but I also get where you're coming from about restraint. Honestly, whenever I have spoken about such things briefly, it's often been dismissed as "gay" . Nonetheless, it still appeals to me. I think you should continue to do what you do. Perhaps not be so terse about things, but I reiterate that you should stick to your guns. Hey... if women can deal with being called a 'slut' for acting on their impulses... Men can deal with being called 'gay' for NOT acting on them.
xxoo Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 He also reminded me that this is how he and I got started way back when... and we never did finish watching "It's a Wonderful Life" See? I know how I am. And much like how my H and I got started way back when But doesn't that fact serve to show the better side of men, that they can want early sex and still be good men interested in relationships? 1
Woggle Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Haven't you posted about your "player" stage, Wog? Before marriage, and after divorce, some people want and need to sow wild oats. Doesn't make the any less trustworthy in a relationship. Robin, why do you feel you need to exercise restraint? I'm sure the people you respect, in solid marriages, had moments of weakness and casual pleasure when single, too. They just didn't make a life of it, and you don't need to, either. Saints are uncommon among adults True but I was still able to say no. Going a little wild after an awful relationship and simply not being able to control yourself are two different things. The fact of the matter is that opportunities will present themselves and people should have the strength to say no. A woman should know that a man has self control to resist the women who like to go after married men and a woman should be able to resist the smooth talking players who love to get inside a married woman's head. If a person can't say no to this it spells trouble.
xxoo Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 True but I was still able to say no. Going a little wild after an awful relationship and simply not being able to control yourself are two different things. The fact of the matter is that opportunities will present themselves and people should have the strength to say no. Sure, but do you judge a single man dating a single woman for going for it?
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 You still have drive-ins around? Cool. I'm still a bit nonplussed about the sleuthing. How about.... 'At this point, I don't feel I know you well enough to come over to your house at night to watch a movie. I'd prefer to not leave any impression that I'm interested in sex at this point in getting to know you and my agreeing to this might leave such an impression. How do you feel about that?' See how the response matches up with his comments about his group as well as with your boundaries and sensibilities regarding the interaction. With what I recall of his prior comments he doesn't appear to be a 'smooth talker', so you just might get an transparent discourse going. Is your style to talk about sex before engaging in sex? I don't mean breathy words in the moment, but rather frank talk about STD's, feelings, etc. This opinion presumes LTR-centric focus. If I missed something in that regard, apologies. About the drive-ins... Yes, it is cool!! Thank you very much for the coaching on the discussion. I think I was just searching for the right words, and you helped alot with that. It is my style to talk about my beliefs about sex before engaging in sex... yes. And my concerns about going there early and the complications it can bring regarding hurt feelings, misunderstandings, and so forth. There might be some light banter and joking back and forth about sex. I shared a story with him about my ex's grandmother. A devout Catholic... she was very opposed to pre-marital sex... but she was quite the racy woman in matters AFTER marriage She joked around about his brother and new wife knocking the cross off the wall as newlyweds. So yea... things like that.. my belief in healthy and open sexuality after commitment. His family is also very Catholic. His parents were married for over 50 years when his dad died. His mom is still alive and he cares for her. Funny about the breathy words in the moment... lots of wiggle room there! That has become one of my screening methods. Just go ahead and mention joint testing at the local clinic before going all the way and see how THAT flies. Very informative
Woggle Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Sure, but do you judge a single man dating a single woman for going for it? No but if a person just can't say no when they find a person attractive it is a red flag. For a while I tried to have one FWB for the most part even though it turned into a disaster. I didn't just sleep with any women that had a thing for me and around my in the summer it is not hard for a guy to get laid.
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Sure, but do you judge a single man dating a single woman for going for it? (tapping fingers... waiting for response) That is the issue. Holding off is hard, if you are a healthy, functioning, fully engaged human being. It shouldn't be ALL on the woman's shoulders. ... and yes, I do think waiting (if looking for a LTR) is the best choice for long term happiness... For both men and women.
StrangeBehaviors Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 ah... yes... I've had this same optimism at times. consequences ARE a b*tch though. One imagines they can manage all challenges, and it is easy to feel invincible... until one actually has to go through them. There is a danger if one leans towards risk taking as a somewhat crippled death wish. Balance is the key. Wrong. Completely wrong. You know what that does? Leaves you very well balanced right in the middle of the tightrope, analyzing, and never doing anything.
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Wrong. Completely wrong. You know what that does? Leaves you very well balanced right in the middle of the tightrope, analyzing, and never doing anything. Also tempting.... I trust my instincts now... and that is the 'struggle' is part of the experience. Believing in effortlessness, and ultimate freedom... and... and... is empty. There is a reason I love ballet so much... the beauty and appearance of effortlessness of it belies the discipline and dedication underneath. It only comes from years of practice. I think alot of life is that way. To suffer and make it seem effortless. Not for 'fun'... but because that is how life is.
StrangeBehaviors Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Also tempting.... I trust my instincts now... and that is the 'struggle' is part of the experience. Believing in effortlessness, and ultimate freedom... and... and... is empty. There is a reason I love ballet so much... the beauty and appearance of effortlessness of it belies the discipline and dedication underneath. It only comes from years of practice. I think alot of life is that way. To suffer and make it seem effortless. Not for 'fun'... but because that is how life is. Talk, talk, talk. No action! Make a move coward or just keep looking at the chess board.
Author RedRobin Posted July 25, 2012 Author Posted July 25, 2012 Talk, talk, talk. No action! Make a move coward or just keep looking at the chess board. Famous last words.... "Watch this!!" .... this reminds me of another one of my favorite movies... "A Christmas Story" so, are you triple-dog-daring me? (you recall that the fire department had to remove his tongue from the flag pole, right?) 1
StrangeBehaviors Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Famous last words.... "Watch this!!" .... this reminds me of another one of my favorite movies... "A Christmas Story" so, are you triple-dog-daring me? (you recall that the fire department had to remove his tongue from the flag pole, right?) Yep. And you of course recognize that the scene is one of the most memorable in the world. All those people have that memory & experience, good and bad....by taking chances and opportunities. Whereas your way you will have none to look back on. Dare you? If you were in my presence I would put you in the position of living life before you could get your analyzation machine going. Now I'm done dancing with you. I'm going to go kiss the girl that wants to live and take a chance....
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