Frank discussion with my guy friends

July 26, 2012

... one more time...

By choosing to only date men I've observed in groups or through friends, I am developing a more nuanced view of his personality than I have the opportunity to do when we are one-on-one.

I think that's a good idea in general. I do not think that will avoid the behavior in you your friend's noted or what seems to trigger it (not just sex - but probably all kinds of things you take a critical eye to). In fact, I think it will increase the likelihood of it. Here's why: The behavior your guy friend's notice is, to me, essentially from you observing men, assessing men, and then cutting them off when you see something that bothers you. This is not necessarily a bad thing - some people need to get better at this even! However, like most things, it's probably about balance. Apparently you do so abruptly and coldly, according to their observations.

I suppose your theory is you can cut them off before you ever let them in, but really, you're doing that anyway. Maybe the behavior will look different, but I seriously doubt you'll stop assessing the same way after Date #1 and you won't be able to pre-screen everyone to your satisfaction levels. Your expectations are just too high for that to be sorted in pre-screen. That is not in and of itself a bad thing.

The only criticisms of your expectations I'd really make have nothing to do with the expectations themselves; it has to do with the way they are delivered. For one, you don't seem very interested in making your expectations clear. Probably because you're worried people will lie to you if you do and you want to assess them differently. Lots of people do this. IMO, it's a terrible idea. It's not so hard to spot a liar that it's worth what you get out of hiding your expectations. And, really, when you are the one hiding, you (general you) get close to lying yourself. It's reminiscent of kaylan's 'hide your profession' thread, though hiding your expectations is much easier. For two, when an expectation is not met, you have a less than graceful way of reacting and exiting. There are more graceful exits available - you have to find some of that yin energy to really take them. A lot of people think how one exits a potential R dynamic doesn't really matter --- after all, it's over --- but I think it's actually the most essential attitude to R success.

Just some thoughts. Pre-screening is good, but you're already great at screening. I don't think screening will ever get you to the point where you can really predict who will meet expectations, though. I think if you have expectations that sex doesn't come up at all early on or people don't multi-date or whatever that it's simply best to be as honest as you can (without vomiting honesty all over people) with what you want, expect, and will accept.

I don't have any problem with you losing interest in him - you're free to do that at any time, for any reason. I still think the word "push" is extreme. I also think that expecting someone to follow your rubric to the letter without ever publishing it is difficult and a defense mechanism.

The trait my friends commented on IS addressed quite well... by setting up situations where I have a chance to get to know men without feeling I have to f*cking put-out with strangers in order to get to know them.

Situations that set you up for sleeping with people has little to do with the first pages of the thread or the trait of cutting people off, without explanation. There are also a myriad of other ways to avoid those situations.

I won't interpret it as anything but a missed opportunity and one less man I need to 'school' or train up.

On the other hand... he might decide not to take it personally... to take me at my word that I need to get to know him better and do just that. We shall see.

Is your word really true though? Earlier, you said you shut down and lost all interest because of his actions. How does that jive with what you say here.

I will say that if you have any feeling that a guy needs to be 'trained up' then it's probably no use engaging in any kind of dynamic with that guy - where could that possibly lead?

It's all so clear now... Why I'm so annoyed with the race to the bedroom and guys who push early... even indirectly.

They are making ME do all the emotional work (I'm supposed to 'trust' they are a good guy without them proving it).

This is an interesting view, RR. Your sentiments around sex certainly seem very complex. I'm glad you found some peace with this idea. I will say that I've never experienced that feeling, nor have I generally experienced being the only one interested in discussing potential STDs. Perhaps men of different generations are different, or perhaps there's a segment of men you're not seeing. We all only see segments of the available population.

I want to note again that my comments aren't designed at encouraging you to change the kind of man or dynamic you want - only at holding you accountable (that word you like!) for expressing your own expectations if you wish to have them met. Though perhaps you consider asserting and expressing boundaries to be part of the heavy emotional lifting you don't wish to engage in. To that end, cutting men off without notice or reason will probably continue. And, honestly, that's not the worst thing in the world - I've just approached all my speech in this thread as though you wanted to change that, since that's how you started the thread.

July 26, 2012

Sort of a discussion about when to have sex in the sense that it's not really worth putting it on such a high pedestal. You should have sex with him when you are ready but I think you would do yourself a favour if you didn't attach such huge importance to it. I think you view it as some kind of submission on your part.

I wonder about the bolded as well. I think you attach a lot of power to sex, RR, in your own way. Might be something to explore in your own mind. Many people do. It's the kind of idea that if you release, it could be very freeing - if in fact you are shackled by it.

July 26, 2012

Sort of a discussion about when to have sex in the sense that it's not really worth putting it on such a high pedestal. You should have sex with him when you are ready but I think you would do yourself a favour if you didn't attach such huge importance to it. I think you view it as some kind of submission on your part.

Sure doing something you don't want is stupid. I do get the impression however that it is more to do with what you think people will say about you

It is other people who used the term 'put out' and who view it as a kind of submission.

I don't really care about the labels.

FYI... If I really cared about what people thought about my dating choices... I wouldn't be dating blue-collar guys with little or no college education. I don't believe that love comes with a price tag or a diploma.

All I care about is not getting wrapped up with jerks and pointless drama... at any level.

.. and finding a man who really cares about me and is looking for a relationship as efficiently as possible.

One thing that came up in my original post is how different our lifestyles appear to be. I already mentioned that I should not have expressed interest before observing him and his group a bit more.

Lesson learned.

July 26, 2012

I wonder about the bolded as well. I think you attach a lot of power to sex, RR, in your own way. Might be something to explore in your own mind. Many people do. It's the kind of idea that if you release, it could be very freeing - if in fact you are shackled by it.

Please refrain from letting the opinions of others and how they feel about sex bleed over onto me.

All I said is I need to get to know the guy... And that his pushing and suggestions shows lack of care, discretion, and consideration given the conversations we had.

You'll have to just take my word for that.

July 26, 2012

.. and finding a man who really cares about me and is looking for a relationship as efficiently as possible.

One thing that came up in my original post is how different our lifestyles appear to be. I already mentioned that I should not have expressed interest before observing him and his group a bit more.

Lesson learned.

Do you trust your judgement of character in general? I think you are so hung up on this perhaps because you don't maybe? You don't sufficiently feel you are able to judge whether a man wants you for you or not so you want him to prove it.

July 26, 2012

Please refrain from letting the opinions of others and how they feel about sex bleed over onto me.

It's not a reference to how I feel about sex, it's a reference to how I feel about men. Zengirl's and my comment are a reference to how you view men, ie that they are the aggressor/dominant partner and that angers you

July 26, 2012

RR -

I respect/and understand your reasoning for not wanting to move forward with a man who invited you over to his house for a second date, but, if it had no emotional bearing on you, it would not be a big deal ---> you'd roll your eyes and be done with it/him. Or, you'd have nookie, and be on your merry way.

Yet, there are over 280 posts as a result. What is it that you're so conflicted over? For what it is worth, a few years ago, a guy did the same thing. It didn't bother me in the least, because I had no *romantic feelings* towards him.

Let me also add, that an ex (who I was with for 6 years) courted/pursued for three months before becoming physically intimate. He stepped outside of the relationship, if you catch my drift. A friend of mine, slept with her now husband on the 1st date, and they've been married for 11 years and he is a terrific man.

There's no right/wrong way. The most important thing, is that you are comfortable with whatever decision you end up making. You don't seem comfortable with this guy, so, it's good that you are paying attention to it.

All I care about is not getting wrapped up with jerks and pointless drama... at any level.

Good. Now move past it.

July 26, 2012

I think that's a good idea in general. I do not think that will avoid the behavior in you your friend's noted or what seems to trigger it (not just sex - but probably all kinds of things you take a critical eye to). In fact, I think it will increase the likelihood of it. Here's why: The behavior your guy friend's notice is, to me, essentially from you observing men, assessing men, and then cutting them off when you see something that bothers you. This is not necessarily a bad thing - some people need to get better at this even! However, like most things, it's probably about balance. Apparently you do so abruptly and coldly, according to their observations.

I've already taken measures to be more considerate with how I put things aside.

I've already stated (how many times now) that I've done nothing disrespectful or inconsiderate AT ALL to this man.

If you read my OP again, you should also note that many of my friends wonder why I even give these guys a chance... my ex commented the other day that I'm TOO nice about it. I don't think there is such a thing as being 'too nice' necessarily... as long as boundaries aren't crossed.

Although, I 'get it' that you wouldn't believe me because I don't apply those filters on LS. It's the one place I don't apply those filters.

I suppose your theory is you can cut them off before you ever let them in, but really, you're doing that anyway. Maybe the behavior will look different, but I seriously doubt you'll stop assessing the same way after Date #1 and you won't be able to pre-screen everyone to your satisfaction levels. Your expectations are just too high for that to be sorted in pre-screen. That is not in and of itself a bad thing.

The only criticisms of your expectations I'd really make have nothing to do with the expectations themselves; it has to do with the way they are delivered. For one, you don't seem very interested in making your expectations clear.

I have. Not sure how many times I need to say "I need to take some time"... and sharing my thoughts about sex and commitment.

Please read the thread over again.

I said it more than once. Guys who push are disrespectful and are showing with their actions and suggestions that they don't care about what a woman is saying.

Lots of guys here on LS push anyway, and get away with it. That's because they are dealing with little girls who don't know what they want. I'm not a little girl. If the guy in question (or any guy) wants to attempt to treat me like one, then he's not the man for me.

Now, you think it is my job and the woman's job (maybe) to smooth things over and work it out of him to do the right thing? and take some personal responsibility? Sorry, I have other projects to manage.

Probably because you're worried people will lie to you if you do and you want to assess them differently. Lots of people do this. IMO, it's a terrible idea. It's not so hard to spot a liar that it's worth what you get out of hiding your expectations. And, really, when you are the one hiding, you (general you) get close to lying yourself. It's reminiscent of kaylan's 'hide your profession' thread, though hiding your expectations is much easier. For two, when an expectation is not met, you have a less than graceful way of reacting and exiting. There are more graceful exits available - you have to find some of that yin energy to really take them. A lot of people think how one exits a potential R dynamic doesn't really matter --- after all, it's over --- but I think it's actually the most essential attitude to R success.

I haven't hidden anything. He isn't listening. Not my job to make him or any guy listen.

... and no, it's not a terrible idea. It is the primary value of social networks. Sure, at the end of the day, I make my own decisions. But there is a whole lot to learn from observing people when you are NOT dating them. I recommend it to anyone... especially women.

I don't have any problem with you losing interest in him - you're free to do that at any time, for any reason. I still think the word "push" is extreme. I also think that expecting someone to follow your rubric to the letter without ever publishing it is difficult and a defense mechanism.

naah. I published it. Quit making up excuses for men. They aren't little babies.

Ninja said it correctly. The guy is a grown @ss man.

Is your word really true though? Earlier, you said you shut down and lost all interest because of his actions. How does that jive with what you say here.

I have lost interest... I'm holding open a teeny-tiny shred of opportunity should he cool it a bit. But I'm not holding my breath.

Like I said.... My mistake for showing interest before I observed him and his group a bit more.

I will say that if you have any feeling that a guy needs to be 'trained up' then it's probably no use engaging in any kind of dynamic with that guy - where could that possibly lead?

No kidding. So much for the 'sharing what I need' lecture, eh? If I'm starting from square one with someone who is this clueless, there is really nowhere to go.

I want to note again that my comments aren't designed at encouraging you to change the kind of man or dynamic you want - only at holding you accountable (that word you like!) for expressing your own expectations if you wish to have them met. Though perhaps you consider asserting and expressing boundaries to be part of the heavy emotional lifting you don't wish to engage in.

Nope. I've asserted and expressed my boundaries plenty.

You (and others here) need to stop making excuses for men. They aren't little babies. They should be exercising and demonstrating care for their own selves. I'm not about to be so condescending as to assume they are just brainless, leg humping puppies who can't possibly be expected to pull their heads out of their @ss... as Ninja so aptly put it.

Seriously... all your coddling is more disrespectful to men than I could ever be.

To that end, cutting men off without notice or reason will probably continue. And, honestly, that's not the worst thing in the world - I've just approached all my speech in this thread as though you wanted to change that, since that's how you started the thread.

If the man feels cut off when I let him go after I tell him my goals, thoughts, and concerns... and he ignores it... then I guess that is not my problem.

I'll shortly stop worrying about it... now that I've figured out the missing piece of the puzzle... which was the STD/sex discussions... or lack of... before I guy tries to push for that. It was mostly me in the past.... I can see that now.

July 26, 2012

What is it that you're so conflicted over?

There was something else nagging at me. Something not related to just this guy... there was a pattern here I was failing to see.

I think I've figured it out now though.

We had to go around the maypole here on LS a few times before I did... but I think I've got it now.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I do realize there are no guarantees.

July 26, 2012

It's not a reference to how I feel about sex, it's a reference to how I feel about men. Zengirl's and my comment are a reference to how you view men, ie that they are the aggressor/dominant partner and that angers you

It has nothing to do with men vs women.

It has everything to do with basic respect and demonstrating care and responsibility... for their own selves and for what I'd like to think is some concern about how intimacy is established.

To simply push and make the woman do the work... or just thoughtlessly dive in without a care in a world and expect me to go along with it?

No, both seem retarded to me.

July 26, 2012

Do you trust your judgement of character in general? I think you are so hung up on this perhaps because you don't maybe? You don't sufficiently feel you are able to judge whether a man wants you for you or not so you want him to prove it.

I do... but I'm learning that there is definately an overabundance of men in this area where I'm living who have some major issues.

Since it is rather a small town with a funky, bi-polar demographic... I really am obliged to take an extra level of care that probably many others don't need to.

July 26, 2012

Zengirl, Emilia... I really appreciate your insights and your concern...

I am a bit exhausted from this effort... and just need some peace for awhile to let things trickle down.

Thanks again.

July 26, 2012

FTR, I think Thatone's girlfriend is stupid for having sex with him on their first weekend together... if that is truly when they first met.

Now, if there are other things he is conveniently leaving out of the picture for the sake of making an argument for early sex, then let's hear it.

Like, how long did he know her and talk to her before he met her in person? Do they have a shared past of any kind? Friends, family, hometown, college... anything?

Because my last BF and I had many long phone discussions... and a number of dates where we assessed compatibility... and had a shared history (he knew a good friend of mine).

We'd already had the STD talks... talked about goals and values... had covered many of those things before becoming intimate... and I knew he was telling the truth because he'd demonstrated consistency in words and actions... not only with me... but with people I knew. I also had observed him around other people too, by then. And observed him to be a person others respected and cared about.

it was ME who invited him over to MY house... and yea... we got 'carried away' and it was great. All things considered. And while he and I were not suited for marriage (that is why we broke up), he has been one of my best friends.

These other guys I'm talking about? Not so. They don't want to put in the effort to get to know me... obviously...

so, this is NOT a discussion about when to have sex... It is a discussion about how people manage responsibility and what information they need about someone prior to becoming intimate with them.

If you care to jump off of buildings without a parachute, that is your choice.

I'd rather not. Nor do I want some guy standing down on the ground shouting 'JUMP!!!" or daring me to just so I can prove how 'liberated' and open minded I am about sex.

Now THAT is stupid.

other than phone/text for the couple weeks leading up to that first weekend, no, we had not met. i was travelling to the city she lives in, had spare concert tickets, mutual friends told me to call her cause she'd want to go, that was it. i lived in the city she lives in many years ago but had not been there in a long time. after we had so much in common on the phone and shared facebook info, she actaully was the one who pitched to me the idea that i didn't need to stay at a hotel, i was welcome to stay at her place (although it was initially 'sleep on the couch').

we did meet up with a couple she was friends with on the first night so she wouldn't be meeting some random dude alone, but that was out the window in a couple hours.

she tells me all the time to this day that i'm the guy who changed her mind that there are actually good people left in the world. which is true, i don't lie, i don't break promises, i'm completely honest about who i am.

she spent years with a therapist after the father of her daughter left her and surprise surprise, as a result thinks more like a man about relationships.

that's why i liked her from the get go, she isn't driven by fear and insecurity, she's confident in who she is and what she wants. just so happens that we want the same things. it really is that simple.

Edited July 26, 2012 by thatone

July 26, 2012

Zengirl, Emilia... I really appreciate your insights and your concern...

I am a bit exhausted from this effort... and just need some peace for awhile to let things trickle down.

Thanks again.

ok no worries. just make sure you understand your own motives that's all

July 26, 2012

Zengirl, Emilia... I really appreciate your insights and your concern...

I am a bit exhausted from this effort... and just need some peace for awhile to let things trickle down.

Thanks again.

If this is all you'd said, I'd leave it at that, but you made some pretty baseless assumptions that I need to address:

I've already taken measures to be more considerate with how I put things aside.

RR, I don't doubt that you are a polite person. What I wonder about is your openness, not your courtesy.

You keep telling me to re-read the thread, but you've not said anywhere in this thread how this man in particular (and when you talk about this situation you seem to bleed it into a larger thing that bleeds into your view of men in general, at least in a dating context, or else you'd just shrug him off as NBD and not even worry about it in the context of the general issue) 'pushed' for sexual intimacy. I am 100% against people who push for anything, ever, ftr. Wanting and expressing desire for something and pushing must be distinguished is all.

I'm not "making excuses for" or "coddling" men. I'm treating them like human beings with their own desires (individually). If those desires don't align with yours, I think it's fine to "next" them. I just think it's odd if there's a need to disparage desires that may differ from yours as poor character. ETA: Of course the way they react to boundaries or express those desires shows character.

I expect men to be "grown *** men" too. We just expect different things. I definitely take umbrage to your assertion that I expect less of men. I think I merely expect more of them and more of myself, in terms of nurturing communication and maintaining our own boundaries, rather than expecting it to be about attitudes about sex at all.

Edited July 26, 2012 by zengirl

July 26, 2012

If this is all you'd said, I'd leave it at that, but you made some pretty baseless assumptions that I need to address:

RR, I don't doubt that you are a polite person. What I wonder about is your openness, not your courtesy.

You keep telling me to re-read the thread, but you've not said anywhere in this thread how this man in particular (and when you talk about this situation you seem to bleed it into a larger thing that bleeds into your view of men in general, at least in a dating context, or else you'd just shrug him off as NBD and not even worry about it in the context of the general issue) 'pushed' for sexual intimacy. I am 100% against people who push for anything, ever, ftr. Wanting and expressing desire for something and pushing must be distinguished is all.

I'm not "making excuses for" or "coddling" men. I'm treating them like human beings with their own desires (individually). If those desires don't align with yours, I think it's fine to "next" them. I just think it's odd if there's a need to disparage desires that may differ from yours as poor character. ETA: Of course the way they react to boundaries or express those desires shows character.

I expect men to be "grown *** men" too. We just expect different things. I definitely take umbrage to your assertion that I expect less of men. I think I merely expect more of them and more of myself, in terms of nurturing communication and maintaining our own boundaries, rather than expecting it to be about attitudes about sex at all.

Great, thanks for clearing that up...

Hope you feel better now you got that off your chest... now if you'd care to stop piling on... that'd be awesome (squeezes cheeks).

July 26, 2012

It has nothing to do with men vs women.

It has everything to do with basic respect and demonstrating care and responsibility... for their own selves and for what I'd like to think is some concern about how intimacy is established.

To simply push and make the woman do the work... or just thoughtlessly dive in without a care in a world and expect me to go along with it?

No, both seem retarded to me.

Red, did you get picked on as a child or anything traumatic like that?

If you set aside the men vs. women thing and relationships in general, your responses here show a general rage/anger/distane towards anyone who you perceive is saying or suggesting you do something you don't want or think you shouldn't do. Instead of ignoring it, you seem almost compelled to snap back at certain people. I've only seen this a few times before, and it's always been a person who had a rough time before becoming an adult.

July 26, 2012

I think people are reading a little too much into RedRobin's words, or she's coming across more harshly than she is trying to be. I understand her viewpoint - I was raised by a woman and have been around women who embrace her viewpoint. Also, encountered vast amounts of the opposite view too!

July 26, 2012

"Hope you feel better now you got that off your chest... now if you'd care to stop piling on... that'd be awesome (squeezes cheeks)."

RR, you are so condescending.

July 26, 2012

I really appreciate your insights and your concern...

I am a bit exhausted from this effort... and just need some peace for awhile to let things trickle down.

Thanks again.

Reposted for emphasis.

Now kindly get off my thread if you don't have anything considerate to say.

July 27, 2012

I think people are reading a little too much into RedRobin's words, or she's coming across more harshly than she is trying to be. I understand her viewpoint - I was raised by a woman and have been around women who embrace her viewpoint. Also, encountered vast amounts of the opposite view too!

Your mum is on her own though. I don't mean to have a dig at her, what I'm saying is that in general one needs to relate to the opposite sex in a better way if one wants a successful relationship.

July 27, 2012

Another poster created this response in another thread...

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/337569-whats-appeal-being-player-11.html

Rather than continue to derail the other thread, I figured it would be best to discuss this here.

Normally, I would not continue this exchange... but it has relevance to the interaction with the man I've been seeing recently...

... First... The person who originated the response... someone I had some phone discussions with and we exchanged pictures. We talked about meeting, but never did, for whatever reason. I offered a number of options to meet that seemed to steer towards his interests, but there was always some reason why he didn't want to meet just yet.

Paired with my reluctance to have a long-distance relationship... it seemed to me as just another interaction where there was a mismatch in compatibility.

I had some other doubts... I suspected he was multi-dating but didn't tell me... There were other things that didn't line up either. But I was willing to TRY and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Beyond that, there were no hurtful words on either side and I was under the impression that we parted on friendly terms. I suggested we try to be friends, since the distance was far enough to make routine travel difficult and a relationship unlikely. But I guess he passed. That's fine. I considered our interaction to be courteous and pleasant. No hard feelings.

We dropped phone conversation without drama (or so it seemed).

alright... so that is the backround.

The relevance to my current situation is this... this person's public outburst regarding what I consider a private and personal interaction is an example of WHY I get to know someone through observation before becoming physically intimate with someone or being in a position to become so.

These are not things I care to sort out AFTER the fact.

Or as I mentioned in another post to Joystickd...

"I'm not afraid of 'dick'... I'm afraid of dating DICKS..."

Taking care like I do greatly minimizes the odds of dating DICKS... and a process I highly recommend.

________________________________________________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedRobin

Hey, what can I say? I'm HAWT!!

No, actually you're not. Amongst your biker guy admires perhaps. Not everyone wants to get in your pants. Seriously, stop kidding yourself. You'd probably be happy if you weren't so full of yourself. The only thing that reeks worse than desperation is bitterness, the air is thick with both. For someone that claims to know "men" so well, you come off quite clueless.

Quote:

... but seriously... I'm not an idiot. Guys really have gotten lazy.

actually the only one who has gotten lazy is you. You're broken, you should fix yourself. Take some of the advice you've been given and work on a little introspection. Stop trying to find a relationship without having to date someone first.That's your biggest problem. Not everything in life can be engineered the way we what it to be. And perhaps the latest guy was intending on getting sex when inviting you over on the third date, IDK. But that's neither here nor there.

MOST OF US AREN'T WALKING DILDOS, I had my new lady over on the third date and sex wasn't even on my mind. I was perfectly content just looking at her, yeah, she's stunning.

Stop being so mean to people. Nobody is piling on, you're the one dumping your holy than thou attitude.

I heard your clock ticking, I strongly suggest you start making some changes. I hope for your sake you do. Start by losing the attraction for the biker type guys. The vast majority are losers. Personally, I think a part time job a few nights a week would be the best thing you could do to expand your social circle. Try interacting with people rather than observing them. You should make new friends rather than try and emulate your mentors and married friends. The only thing preventing you from finding a relationship is yourself. Good luck finding what your looking for.

Edited July 27, 2012 by RedRobin

July 27, 2012

"Stop trying to find a relationship without having to date someone first. That's your biggest problem"

I don't plan on changing this... especially when meeting strangers.

"Stop being so mean to people. Nobody is piling on, you're the one dumping your holy than thou attitude."

People really need to take a look in the mirror. You don't have to take it personally when I disagree with you or are not taking your advice on something.

That said, I have a pretty good idea when someone is trying to help and is offering constructive criticism (even if done in a blunt way) and someone who IS just piling on.

I kindly asked for some time to BE introspective and let some of the information filter in... and yes... people DID pile on for (what I consider) their own selfish reasons.

Granted.. I've already mentioned that LS is where I drop my filters. So, I'll accept that it feels mean to them. It isn't personal though. Just so ya know.

"I heard your clock ticking"

No clock ticking here. I suspect some projection. Typical attitude from some men who believe a woman's value drops after a certain age though. Another bullet dodged.

"Start by losing the attraction for the biker type guys. The vast majority are losers.".

I make no apologies for opening myself up to dating men from a wide variety of backgrounds, income, education, hobbies, interests, etc. Without getting to know someone in some way, it seems premature to judge them simply based on their hobby.

"Personally, I think a part time job a few nights a week would be the best thing you could do to expand your social circle. Try interacting with people rather than observing them."

Not fair and not accurate. This person knows very well that I interact with people routinely in a variety of settings.

It is unprofessional to work a part time job and hit on customers or vice versa. Some jobs strictly prohibit it. Volunteer work is better for meeting people, TBH... and something I'm already doing and enjoy immensely.

You should make new friends rather than try and emulate your mentors and married friends.

I tried to make a new friend here. Not sure where the butt-hurt came from, but oh well. I was never disrespectful or dishonest.

As far as my mentors and friends go... Most of them have long-term relationships that are working and have stood the test of time. I can't imagine any better people to emulate.

I have no interest in emulating people who can't keep relationships or aren't interested in LTR's... which seems to be the majority of people on LS, unfortunately.

The only thing preventing you from finding a relationship is yourself.

Cliche, but thanks. If I didn't already acknowledge that, I wouldn't be here.

Edited July 27, 2012 by RedRobin

July 27, 2012

... update with the man I've been seeing...

We had a nice phone conversation last night after having texted back and forth a bit over the week.

We had some laughs about our mutual experience with braces and our orthodontists... Shared our day... good things. Talk wasn't sexual. It was just nice.

He wants to get together this weekend... we've left it open ended to see how the weather goes.

I'll open up the doors of communication about my thoughts/concerns when we meet and play it by ear.

If the weather isn't too bad, I might even suggest the DRIVE-IN movie, like my male friend suggested. Although, I may take a bit more time to check out his group and other things.

... so, there ya go...

Edited July 27, 2012 by RedRobin

July 27, 2012

Your mum is on her own though. I don't mean to have a dig at her, what I'm saying is that in general one needs to relate to the opposite sex in a better way if one wants a successful relationship.

Actually she's been in a long term relationship for the last 5 years!

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