GravityMan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I think many of these men that the OP is referring to may have been raised in a broken home or a single-parent household, where the parent is the mother. The men lacked a strong father figure while they were kids.
Author TheWatcher Posted July 18, 2012 Author Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) It's very simple. They would rather stay safe and silent in their suffering. They refuse to better themselves, and attempt become more attractive to the opposite sex. Getting their own ego bruised and "being hurt" matters more to them than having a fun conversation with a girl. It's alot easier to just whine and moan than put in the work required. Men like this rationalize rejection (and almost everything else in dating) WAY too much. Almost like they deserve to get something, without any effort. So to justify their failure they don't even try. I've heard women express this sentiment before that men feel entitled. Is that what you mean ? and how so ? A lot of men would love nothing more to have a fun conversation with a girl but do not know how to go about starting one;how do you break the ice ? Can you just go up to someone you find interesting and say "Hi,I'm X...what's your name ?" Is it that easy ? How do you keep things moving along, interesting,fun ? Not awkward ? I think that's what preoccupies a number of guys. Also, I think its the fear of being embarrassed & humiliated more than rejected that deters a number of guys. Most of them have divorced or never married parents with no father around to give them advice. There is no shame now, as there was in the past, if a man isn't working, lives with his parents and/or never dates. It's the result of the mindset that we're all perfect, we're all beautiful, and no one should judge (have an opinion) of anyone else. This phenomenon is especially interesting given that sex has never been so freely available in life or online. I also think given the GMO foods and estrogen in the environment, men have much lower testosterone than in the past. Just look at all the men with "moobs." Testosterone drives men to succeed in life as well as with women. Some interesting points FitChick..particularly about the lower testosterone. Although I do think that the preponderance of "moobs" has to do with poor diet and lack of exercise more than an increase in estrogen. I have to disagree somewhat about the sex being so freely available.I think that maybe your perception may be clouded by the fact that your a woman and sex is generally more available to you. Of course,there are men who sex comes to very easily but they are the exception more than the rule in my opinion. What do you think are the implications (for women) with this trend amongst men ? The lack of initiative,unwillingness to approach,pursue,etc... Edited July 18, 2012 by TheWatcher
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I don't know if it's a "growing trend". I have some friends (perhaps a lot to some people I guess), they seem like fairly average guys. I know two other guys who are similar to me in experience (or inexperience I should say). One is an immigrant from India who doesn't speak English very well and sometimes gets anxiety around women. The other is a rather large man who went into engineering. He's never had a girlfriend, though he's fooled around with a woman before (no sex though). That's it, that's the list. Everyone else, whether tall or short, fat or skinny, living at home living in their own place, good job, bad job, whatever, has had a girlfriend or lots of hook ups (with sex) by age 21. So we're rare. We just show up in droves on the internet because we have nothing else to do with our down time. I'm certainly not going to hit the bars looking for women to hit on. So here I am.
DreamerDeceiver Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I've heard women express this sentiment before that men feel entitled. Is that what you mean ? and how so ? A lot of men would love nothing more to have a fun conversation with a girl but do not know how to go about starting one;how do you break the ice ? Can you just go up to someone you find interesting and say "Hi,I'm X...what's your name ?" Is it that easy ? How do you keep things moving along, interesting,fun ? Not awkward ? I think that's what preoccupies a number of guys. Also, I think its the fear of being embarrassed & humiliated more than rejected that deters a number of guys. What I meant was, these "men" if you can call them that are so butthurt by rejection they don't even attempt to talk to women anymore. So they would rather stay home and do the you-know-what. As far as starting conversation, yes, it is that easy. It's easier in real life than online which is why I stopped online dating. Just say anything. Make a funny compliment about something you noticed about her. Don't ask for her name flat out until you've talked to her for a few minutes to see if you think she's cool. After a few minutes of checking out how she is, if you still like her, tell her you think she seems cool to hang out with and you'd like to chill with her at (fun place you like) on (day of the week and time.) If she doesn't offer an alternative or starts acting stand-offish or cold tell her it was nice to meet her and walk away. That will bug her because most guys would keep going "well how about this and that and Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday etc, etc, etc?!??!" That's the most basic way I can put it. But it's not all about her, it's about you - it's about breaking out of your own comfort zone - that will have the biggest impact. The next time you see a girl you like you'll have an easier time talking to her. But you just have to do it. Alot of guys nowadays just give up and won't put in the effort, they think the woman of their dreams will come running toward them
brahmabull117 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 That would be because a non monstrous woman doesn't have to face rejection. It's hilarious to me how women criticize men about how they deal with rejection when most of them avoid it like the bubonic plague. this, for god's sake this Any time a woman ever tells a man anything about rejection, I just laugh my ass off about it. Most women would rather get bitten by a rattlesnake than get rejected and they'll sit there and criticize a man all day for hating rejectioin
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 What I meant was, these "men" if you can call them that are so butthurt by rejection they don't even attempt to talk to women anymore. So they would rather stay home and do the you-know-what. As far as starting conversation, yes, it is that easy. It's easier in real life than online which is why I stopped online dating. Just say anything. Make a funny compliment about something you noticed about her. Don't ask for her name flat out until you've talked to her for a few minutes to see if you think she's cool. After a few minutes of checking out how she is, if you still like her, tell her you think she seems cool to hang out with and you'd like to chill with her at (fun place you like) on (day of the week and time.) If she doesn't offer an alternative or starts acting stand-offish or cold tell her it was nice to meet her and walk away. That will bug her because most guys would keep going "well how about this and that and Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday etc, etc, etc?!??!" That's the most basic way I can put it. But it's not all about her, it's about you - it's about breaking out of your own comfort zone - that will have the biggest impact. The next time you see a girl you like you'll have an easier time talking to her. But you just have to do it. Alot of guys nowadays just give up and won't put in the effort, they think the woman of their dreams will come running toward them I haven't done "you know what" in months. To be honest I'd rather go home and watch an O's game. Or better yet head to OPACY and watch them. Starting conversations with women is not easy. Especially when you know you creep them out.
Teal Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 this is what man virgins are up against. written by women. I wold run away very fast from a grown up virgin. Something has to be “off” for them to make it through their life without being it that ummmm position. If your waiting for the right person and/or saving yourself then that is your choice…. but I think its creepy n weird I would be scared to be an “adult” virgin – only because after waiting that long, the expectations of the outcome would seem to be higher, meaning – once you “gave it up” – what if that person broke your heart anyway? I would think the aftermath of that would be absolutely devestating. I can certianly applaud people who are saving themselves for marraige. Assuming that these people need sex therapy just because they are virgins is ridiculous. Having said that, I can honestly say I would not want to date a virgin and have to go through that awkward phase again. I think sex is to important in a relationship and this owuld be a deal breaker for me. This makes me consider tying mine up in pretty white ribbons before the first time.
DreamerDeceiver Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Space_Center and fortyninethousand, you just need to talk to more women and work on your approach. Then you'll see what works and what doesn't, and how to hold a conversation with a woman. I never talk about myself until she asks, for one.
thatone Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Most of them have divorced or never married parents with no father around to give them advice. There is no shame now, as there was in the past, if a man isn't working, lives with his parents and/or never dates. It's the result of the mindset that we're all perfect, we're all beautiful, and no one should judge (have an opinion) of anyone else. This phenomenon is especially interesting given that sex has never been so freely available in life or online. i think that's it, i agree. a generation of men raised by single women. leads to idolization of their mother, which in turn leads to putting women in general on a pedestal. and we know that is a recipe for failure. i think this also explains the 'doormat' type who not just tolerate, but marry and impregnate, drama queen psycho women without so much as a complaint. then they get all surprised when the drama queen they married cheats on them and promptly hits them with a divorce. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/336367-back-dating-after-divorce-reply look at the above, dude has been on two dates with a girl who gave her own hard earned money to a scumbag ex with a gambling addiction and then accepted a marriage proposal from the guy. and dude is worried about his actions, as if he might not be good enough for her. and of course men are no different really when the tables are turned. when i worked in hotels in my younger years i hired lots of young women, most of which were working their way through college while their pothead boyfriend was sitting in his drawers on her couch eating cheerios all day while she was at work/school, and only made an appearance outside her apartment to take her car or her money.
miss_jaclynrae Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I don't see this at all... All the men I know have been in a serious relationship at one point or another...
sally4sara Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 A portion of our dating rituals were created in a time when there was a power imbalance between the sexes. This has changed and some, the ones unfortunate enough to have been raised under the influence of parents still stuck in that mentality do a huge disservice to their kids in not preparing them for the world they will live in. Their parents don't like the evolving world and try to resist the natural evolution of our species by only preparing them for a world that has disappeared. Its cruel because the sex life of their kid is not something they own. This is the weeding out of unwanted behaviors. People may not wish to raise a child with someone who thinks and behaves in an antiquated fashion. I remember this cartoon movie that started with these lemur characters getting ready for a mating event. They all start swinging through the trees with the males doing flips and acrobatics to impress a female to pair up with them. In the end, one male lemur (his second run through this event) was left unpaired again. He is different than the other males in physical way and the mating event is intended to showcase whether or not the males trying to mate measure up to the physical requirements for their species. He isn't just not ideal, he is wildly so and will not get to mate because he doesn't have the traits they want for the success of their species in the future. This could be at play for both genders. For humans it would be a combination of both of these factors. A physically awkward person with outdated attitudes about relationships and the opposite gender is simply going to get weeded out of the genetic pool. It sucks for them but might perhaps, be for the best in the end. 2
sally4sara Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) what a crappy thing to say. it's blaming the men who can't get dates and not helping them. the rituals now are so ridiculous and i don't even understand them. i'm 40 and have had three dates my entire life and nothing but heartache. the average idiot whos high on drugs does better than i do and so does the average unemployed ex con. men who arent't smooth who wants to treat women like people rather than objects are the ones getting weeded out of the population. but to so many of you. that's who you want weeded out. Ummm. I was talking about both genders when they can't find someone, not just men. It probably does happen to men more because they can't give birth. Edited July 18, 2012 by sally4sara
irc333 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) You could say this might be due to women not helping matters much when it comes to dating. In some cases, made it difficult for them. Some of them are just plain tired of dealing with their B.S. No offense to the ladies, but there's some truth to this. Almost like they deserve to get something, without any effort. So to justify their failure they don't even try. Correction...they probably have at one time put in effort big time...over time, they've reached a saturation point and decided to stop dealing with the games and BS. There seems to be a growing trend (and accompanying subculture) amongst men, of guys who have reached their late 20's..30's & into their 40's who have very little to no experience with women.Men who have never had girlfriends,never dated,virgins,etc. This sort of trend does not exist amongst women.It would be extremely difficult to find a woman in her mid-twenties who has not had some sorting of dating/relationship experience.Of course,I am not claiming that there are no women like this but it would be rare. Whereas,with men it is quite common.Most guys either know (or know of) someone who is in such a situation. What factors do you think is behind this ? I'm particularly curious to hear from women. Edited July 18, 2012 by irc333
Davey McG Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 it was a crappy thing to say She's just discussing Natural Selection. Nature is not particularly nice. IIRC 80% of men reproduce, which leaves 20% who do not. Perhaps it has always been like this.
irc333 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 It's funny...you know...how people are turning things around to make good things sound bad, and bad things sound good. You know? The same can be said for drinking or smoking pot. I have never smoked pot in my life, and I'm judged harshly for it. I don't drink much, and while my drunken co-workers in the hotel lounge question why I'm still on my first drink....they give me a strange look. I once heard someone that said, "I'll never trust someone that does NOT drink." Reason for this, is that they feel SO guilty of their vices, that they are ticked off that they come across someone that doesn't participate in THAT vice. Sometimes they feel they may even snitch on them, OR think the non-drinker is judging the drinker, when it's not even true. They get so insecure being around someone who doesn't participate in such things. So what they do, they start to claim there is something wrong with THEM , instead. this is what man virgins are up against. written by women. I wold run away very fast from a grown up virgin. Something has to be “off” for them to make it through their life without being it that ummmm position. If your waiting for the right person and/or saving yourself then that is your choice…. but I think its creepy n weird I would be scared to be an “adult” virgin – only because after waiting that long, the expectations of the outcome would seem to be higher, meaning – once you “gave it up” – what if that person broke your heart anyway? I would think the aftermath of that would be absolutely devestating. I can certianly applaud people who are saving themselves for marraige. Assuming that these people need sex therapy just because they are virgins is ridiculous. Having said that, I can honestly say I would not want to date a virgin and have to go through that awkward phase again. I think sex is to important in a relationship and this owuld be a deal breaker for me. 1
ThaWholigan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 This thread should be called "Men & Bitching - a growing trend?" 4
ThaWholigan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 why don't you shut the **** up I thought you were from Omaha?
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 For humans it would be a combination of both of these factors. A physically awkward person with outdated attitudes about relationships and the opposite gender is simply going to get weeded out of the genetic pool. It sucks for them but might perhaps, be for the best in the end. I've said this before (in different words obviously) and it's always been dismissed. But I agree with you.
sally4sara Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I've said this before (in different words obviously) and it's always been dismissed. But I agree with you. In threads like these, I too am often dismissed for my sexual plumbing. Which when you think about it, is pretty much a glaring example of why some guys might not get any. All the grumbling about not getting pussy while dismissing it seems counter productive. 1
Kcelleste Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Through their late 20's, 30's and 40's they enjoyed their time experiencing the same sex. Either plain gay or just plain crazy. It's no other explanation in my opinion.
ThaWholigan Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Through their late 20's, 30's and 40's they enjoyed their time experiencing the same sex. Either plain gay or just plain crazy. It's no other explanation in my opinion. That's just straight up ignorant
NYC-BigKat Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 It's very simple. They would rather stay safe and silent in their suffering. They refuse to better themselves, and attempt become more attractive to the opposite sex. Getting their own ego bruised and "being hurt" matters more to them than having a fun conversation with a girl. It's alot easier to just whine and moan than put in the work required. Men like this rationalize rejection (and almost everything else in dating) WAY too much. Almost like they deserve to get something, without any effort. So to justify their failure they don't even try. All it takes is one girl to screw up a guy's perception on women and dating, and as long as he doesn't get over it, the self-handicapping can last decades. Girls don't even come close to agonizing over this stuff as much as guys do. Guys like this are always "outcome-dependent." NO! I think girls will agonize a whole lot more than guys if they started to do the approaching & got the rejections that we get all the time .
DreamerDeceiver Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 NO! I think girls will agonize a whole lot more than guys if they started to do the approaching & got the rejections that we get all the time . I get what you're saying... The reality of the world we live in is, men are to lead in a relationship, hence they must approach. The chemicals inside us, are supposed to help us get to what and where we want. Both men and women face rejection. The difference is, undersocialized men tend to hold it inside long term, and dissolve their own self-confidence/self-image with it. One rejection can last years. Whereas from my experience, most women get mad, sad, then move on. There are plenty of willing guy friends, chumps or potential dates to distract them with, especially if these women are attractive and have options. The reverse is not the case with men unless they carry the "attractive" qualities that draw women to them. Of course they still have to approach most of the time Let's be honest. Most men would not reject an attractive girl if they approached - I sure as heck would not. But attractive women are hit on guys all the time so they need some way to separate the weaklings from the real deal. At the same time, nobody wants something they can get so easy. I don't like when a girl is desperate. Así es la vida - that's life.
somedude81 Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Correction...they probably have at one time put in effort big time...over time, they've reached a saturation point and decided to stop dealing with the games and BS. Exactly, it's bullsh*t for anybody to say that I have never tried. I've been rejected by at least 20 girls in my life. Several of them I really liked. I have tried extremely hard. If anybody thinks I haven't done anything to try and get a girl, F them.
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