TheWatcher Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 There seems to be a growing trend (and accompanying subculture) amongst men, of guys who have reached their late 20's..30's & into their 40's who have very little to no experience with women.Men who have never had girlfriends,never dated,virgins,etc. This sort of trend does not exist amongst women.It would be extremely difficult to find a woman in her mid-twenties who has not had some sorting of dating/relationship experience.Of course,I am not claiming that there are no women like this but it would be rare. Whereas,with men it is quite common.Most guys either know (or know of) someone who is in such a situation. What factors do you think is behind this ? I'm particularly curious to hear from women.
DreamerDeceiver Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 It's very simple. They would rather stay safe and silent in their suffering. They refuse to better themselves, and attempt become more attractive to the opposite sex. Getting their own ego bruised and "being hurt" matters more to them than having a fun conversation with a girl. It's alot easier to just whine and moan than put in the work required. Men like this rationalize rejection (and almost everything else in dating) WAY too much. Almost like they deserve to get something, without any effort. So to justify their failure they don't even try. All it takes is one girl to screw up a guy's perception on women and dating, and as long as he doesn't get over it, the self-handicapping can last decades. Girls don't even come close to agonizing over this stuff as much as guys do. Guys like this are always "outcome-dependent." 5
Teal Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 So I've heard. It's kind of unusual? I've known some people like this I'd pity the girlfriend of anyway, but at the same time some perfectly fine catches have fallen through the cracks. The most common cause seems to be moderate-severe problems with shyness, anxiety, or social skills. I'm seeing a friend a few towns away that I've known since January. He's 22 and has never dated before, but there's really nothing wrong with him. Anxiety, I guess? Whatever, mine now. 2
seachangeoflove Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 this is happening due to the fact that women are spoiled princesses. You new here? and I would date a physically disabled man. I wouldn't think that I was "lowering my standards" either. That statement is appaling to disabled people of all genders. I'm sure the poster who made it does fantastic with he ladies!
MrCastle Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 It's very simple. They would rather stay safe and silent in their suffering. They refuse to better themselves, and attempt become more attractive to the opposite sex. Getting their own ego bruised and "being hurt" matters more to them than having a fun conversation with a girl. It's alot easier to just whine and moan than put in the work required. Men like this rationalize rejection (and almost everything else in dating) WAY too much. Almost like they deserve to get something, without any effort. So to justify their failure they don't even try. All it takes is one girl to screw up a guy's perception on women and dating, and as long as he doesn't get over it, the self-handicapping can last decades. Girls don't even come close to agonizing over this stuff as much as guys do. Guys like this are always "outcome-dependent." Says a member of the opposite sex who doesn't have to approach or put themselves out there, but rather sits back and decides which suitor she's going to pick. Try being an average man in any respects; looks, height, income, personality, and then see if you can get a girl in your range. Logically, you should, but as we all know, there is no logic when it comes to dating/picking a mate.
ThaWholigan Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I am probably one of very few people I know who has struggled with dating, and I'm early 20s. The only guy I know who struggles with women and is mid-20s, has the same disabilities as me, doesn't have a social life, doesn't care about dating and has been an alcoholic weed-smoker since 16. Still a dear friend though, long time friend . There are no such issues in my immediate environment, even the orbiting friendzoners get laid, they just pine after the ones they can't have while they f*ck everybody else . So this trend seems to be largely Americanized, and I can imagine that because it's such a vast country compared to the tiny island I live on. However, as someone who has had problems, and am directly countering them, slowly but successfully, I can pinpoint where there are flaws, and to be honest, there are many other resources out there that do point out these flaws. 1. The first problem is the mindset. The belief that there aren't enough women to date, or that women don't like them, or have too high standards, or their too short/ugly/whatever and they can never improve their attractiveness. This is all false in my opinion. The first step is to identify where those beliefs come from, and then eliminate them. Then proceed from there, in the belief that in fact, they can improve. 2. The 2nd problem is that they don't know how to be attractive. Either that, or they have an idea of how attraction should be, and stick steadfastly to that rigidly. Attraction is an emotional choice, it's not logical. I've been attracted to girls where it wasn't logical for me to be attracted to them, but it was an emotional force that compelled me to feel that way. Once I started to understand my own emotions, then I was able to understand the emotions of others (empathy). As such, I realized that attraction was an emotional thing, and that one must appeal to a woman's emotions, rather than her logic. Even if she logically should be attracted to you, if there is no emotional feeling (either physical or mental), she won't be. The best way to do this would be to understand emotions, and master your social skills. It might seem hard at first, but exposing yourself to more social situations will help, and attempting to understand the cues, the body language and other things. I also learn words, and talk in any which way I please. So I can have an intellectual conversation, yet also have an emotional conversation, and now I am learning how to have a sexually charged conversation, in a subtle sense. This is a good way to get dates, if you can do it right without being sleazy. Again, comes with practice and going to more social situations. 3. If one wants to be more aesthetically pleasing to women, there are ways of achieving this. First, fitness. Barring any medical conditions, anyone can have a good body. It doesn't have to be the most defined 6 pack in the world, but a good shape, and functionally strong muscles can suffice. Nutrition helps too, don't eat too much fast food. Learn to cook and eat fruit, veg and meat/fish or whatever (soy/legumes if vegetarian). After this, one can learn how to move attractively. There is a good book for this called Code of the Natural by Rob Brinded. It shouldn't cost more than $50 dollars online, and if you can afford it, there's a $200 dollar course. It shows you how to train in a way that gives you permanently attractive body language, movement and expression. I have the book, haven't done the video program. The book has helped me a lot in terms of walking easier and more comfortably. I look natural when I walk, and not closed off. 4. Last one. Be interesting. What do I mean? Do things, anything. Have a social circle, or have 2, as part of a network. Even an introvert can benefit from having one, even if you don't move with the circle all the time. Have goals, aspirations, passions, hobbies, dreams etc. This doesn't relate directly to dating, but having an attractive lifestyle attracts girls. This would involve putting yourself out there, cultivating interests that involve people, learning some new skills that may earn you money or whatever it is you want out of it. Anything. ------------- These are learnable things, it's not impossible. The problem with guys who have trouble is that they think that this stuff above is not possible. Thus, they think that it's a given that women won't like them. So as far as I can see, as much as women may or may not have too high standards, men should be able to adapt to reap the benefits, without destroying their core values, whatever they are. And, in turn, they will be attractive to women and will attract women who want to be in their lives. So it's a win-win! 7
Lonely Ronin Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Jesus, I'm so sick of hearing this BS. The only problem with these guys, is they don't want to own up and deal with their issues. as an old coach of mine once said: "suck it up, or shut up" because theres a lot of man-w****s who are having sex with several women at once the supply of women for every one else is lower. 2
Cracker Jack Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Lol@ blaming players for there being a scarcity of women for other men. Hate to say this, but on the real, most of the guys on here are the ones sounding like females. 3
Necromancer Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 It's very simple. They would rather stay safe and silent in their suffering. They refuse to better themselves, and attempt become more attractive to the opposite sex. Getting their own ego bruised and "being hurt" matters more to them than having a fun conversation with a girl. It's alot easier to just whine and moan than put in the work required. Men like this rationalize rejection (and almost everything else in dating) WAY too much. Almost like they deserve to get something, without any effort. So to justify their failure they don't even try. All it takes is one girl to screw up a guy's perception on women and dating, and as long as he doesn't get over it, the self-handicapping can last decades. Girls don't even come close to agonizing over this stuff as much as guys do. Guys like this are always "outcome-dependent." Really?, its not often that I have good conversation with a random gal many just don't wanna keep it flowing. How women respond to you depends on how attractive you are. So how often have you've been rejected directly?
ThaWholigan Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Lol@ blaming players for there being a scarcity of women for other men. Hate to say this, but on the real, most of the guys on here are the ones sounding like females. the best part is people are gonna completely skip past my post. How women respond to you depends on how attractive you are. And how attractive she finds you depends on a variety of variables that aren't limited to TRG guys. 2
Cracker Jack Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 the best part is people are gonna completely skip past my post. I had to read it again, but that was one hellllllll of a post there, man. Unfortunately, what makes sense is often ignored for things that usually don't make sense. Yo, space. Do you want sympathy or a guide to get off your ass and make positive changes to your life? Pick one.
Ami1uwant Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 There seems to be a growing trend (and accompanying subculture) amongst men, of guys who have reached their late 20's..30's & into their 40's who have very little to no experience with women.Men who have never had girlfriends,never dated,virgins,etc. This sort of trend does not exist amongst women.It would be extremely difficult to find a woman in her mid-twenties who has not had some sorting of dating/relationship experience.Of course,I am not claiming that there are no women like this but it would be rare. Whereas,with men it is quite common.Most guys either know (or know of) someone who is in such a situation. What factors do you think is behind this ? I'm particularly curious to hear from women. I think its about the same. I have met a few women who were still virgins or they may have had sex once over 15-20 years prior. For women its based on looks and religion....If they arent as attractive, excessivly overweight, or come from religious backgrounds of waiting till marriage for sex increases the number in women. Especially with the latter---there are many women who wait till marriage for sex...so if they havent gotten married then no sex. With men its more to do with the lack of relationship success. They have trouble meeting women or they are constantly trying to date out of their league, they have lost confidence or cant read signals. The other aspect of being older and still virgin are people who basically changed careers and left being people of the cloth in the church. Through peer pressure its much more difficult on the men than the women if they are still a virgin. As I said above many women want to wait till marriage because that was how they were raised...but they still had relationships...with men....they didnt have much luck with relationships. 2
Ami1uwant Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 lots more men have multiple partners than women do. what's left could be more men than women. it's basic supply and demand. the women who are least desirable still have an option. the men the least desirable don't. Thats actually not true---women dont admit to how many guys they sleep with. Society pressure rewards guys who have slept with the most while it punishes women who behave the same---thus lower reporting rates among women. 1
MrCastle Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Jesus, I'm so sick of hearing this BS. The only problem with these guys, is they don't want to own up and deal with their issues. as an old coach of mine once said: "suck it up, or shut up" I agree that for whatever reason, a lot of men aren't men nowadays. Manhood is becoming a lost art form. At the same time, however, I am not going to sit here and act like women are not part of the problem these men are having. Ice queens who reject you flat out, attention whores who friend zone you to feed their ego, shallow girls, entitled princesses, overly picky girls, they all exist. My guess is these men are running into more of these types than higher quality girls. Men need to man up, certainly, but a lot of women out there aren't exactly a prize either.
seachangeoflove Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Men need to man up, certainly, but a lot of women out there aren't exactly a prize either. so aren't these men better off single then? That is how I feel. Id rather be single than date someone I don't feel is worthy of me. So those men should do the same. They should be proud that they are alone rather then settle for a trashy whore or crying about how even fat girls reject them. maybe, just stop caring about women alltogether and things will probably get better for them. In life and with the ladies. So women are partially to blame for mens problems with dating, you said so yourself. Yet when women have dating problems it's because "you only date bad boys" or "you must be fat/ugly" or something else that is HER PROBLEM. lol. Edited July 17, 2012 by seachangeoflove 5
MrCastle Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 so aren't these men better off single then? That is how I feel. Id rather be single than date someone I don't feel is worthy of me. So those men should do the same. They should be proud that they are alone rather then settle for a trashy whore or crying about how even fat girls reject them. maybe, just stop caring about women alltogether and things will probably get better for them. In life and with the ladies. Oh i agree, and i'm sure a lot of men have dealt with those women so rather than get involved, they remain single. But the longer they do that, the longer they go being single, hence, you wake up one day and realize you're 27 years old and never had a girlfriend in that instance, it's not a matter of who you are, but rather the types of women you're finding aren't meeting your needs 1
ThaWholigan Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 so aren't these men better off single then? That is how I feel. Id rather be single than date someone I don't feel is worthy of me. So those men should do the same. They should be proud that they are alone rather then settle for a trashy whore or crying about how even fat girls reject them. maybe, just stop caring about women alltogether and things will probably get better for them. In life and with the ladies. So women are partially to blame for mens problems with dating, you said so yourself. Yet when women have dating problems it's because "you only date bad boys" or "you must be fat/ugly" or something else that is HER PROBLEM. lol. Agree so much. I am perfectly comfortable with being alone. Sure, I would like to be in a relationship with a girl, or get laid or whatever. But I'm not desperate. 2
El Brujo Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 There seems to be a growing trend (and accompanying subculture) amongst men, of guys who have reached their late 20's..30's & into their 40's who have very little to no experience with women.Men who have never had girlfriends,never dated,virgins,etc. This sort of trend does not exist amongst women.It would be extremely difficult to find a woman in her mid-twenties who has not had some sorting of dating/relationship experience.Of course,I am not claiming that there are no women like this but it would be rare. Whereas,with men it is quite common.Most guys either know (or know of) someone who is in such a situation. What factors do you think is behind this ? I'm particularly curious to hear from women. Simple. We guys are on strike.
Lonely Ronin Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 you are spouting the bs and there's a double standard against man virgins. you'd try and help a woman virgin but the best you have for a man virgin is suck it up or shut up. I have no problem with helping anyone, what I have a problem with is endless whining by guys here about how they are victims, or that's it's not their fault. 1
ThaWholigan Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 lots say this but how many really mean it? i'll take you at your word though. I mean it. Anyone can call me on it later on down the line if I change my tune. 1
Lonely Ronin Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Agree so much. I am perfectly comfortable with being alone. Sure, I would like to be in a relationship with a girl, or get laid or whatever. But I'm not desperate. I second this, I'd rather be single than with someone who isn't right for me. 3
DreamerDeceiver Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 So how often have you've been rejected directly? Indirectly (flakes etc) and directly, many many times. It's when you start taking it personally and caring too much about what the next woman will think, that it becomes a problem. 1
FitChick Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Most of them have divorced or never married parents with no father around to give them advice. There is no shame now, as there was in the past, if a man isn't working, lives with his parents and/or never dates. It's the result of the mindset that we're all perfect, we're all beautiful, and no one should judge (have an opinion) of anyone else. This phenomenon is especially interesting given that sex has never been so freely available in life or online. I also think given the GMO foods and estrogen in the environment, men have much lower testosterone than in the past. Just look at all the men with "moobs." Testosterone drives men to succeed in life as well as with women.
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