Love or Nostalgia ?

[East7]

So I received a very nice gift from xMW and a nice card with sweet words.

 

I know she still holds something for me..We have been loving, cursing, hating each other but we never really succeeded to stay indifferent (NC) for long time. Our A is now history (ended 2y ago) but somehow we still keep a lingering feeling for each-other. I have been seeing other women and I hoped that one of them would make me forget for good about MW, but it didn't happen. It sounds like the same is happening on her end. She has done lots of things to change her M and things with her life, it looks like I am still in the back of her mind. Real Love or nostalgia...Hard to tell.

 

Realistically there were too much barriers between us that implied a huge change in our respective lives going from geography to jobs, finances etc.(we were LD) I have held her for a long time accountable for "us" to make it real but I also recognize we are literally worlds apart in lot of (material) aspects. She had to drop everything she had to be with me and the same for me.

 

One day she told me "East, I know you love me and I love you, but love is not enough.."

 

Is that sadly true or just an elegant cynical way to hide behind the barriers returning to the security a woman needs?

 

We all think we'd cross mountains and valleys to be with the one we love but when the reality kicks in we are not brave to make the changes.

 

Is love enough ? Do we face the reality and suck it up or is it plain cowardice ? I don't know if what she is still showing me is real love or nostalgia..

 

Or else tell me that I am confused and if she wanted to move and change her life, she would have done it !

[sad puppy]

So I received a very nice gift from xMW and a nice card with sweet words.

 

I know she still holds something for me..We have been loving, cursing, hating each other but we never really succeeded to stay indifferent (NC) for long time. Our A is now history (ended 2y ago) but somehow we still keep a lingering feeling for each-other. I have been seeing other women and I hoped that one of them would make me forget for good about MW, but it didn't happen. It sounds like the same is happening on her end. She has done lots of things to change her M and things with her life, it looks like I am still in the back of her mind. Real Love or nostalgia...Hard to tell.

 

Realistically there were too much barriers between us that implied a huge change in our respective lives going from geography to jobs, finances etc.(we were LD) I have held her for a long time accountable for "us" to make it real but I also recognize we are literally worlds apart in lot of (material) aspects. She had to drop everything she had to be with me and the same for me.

 

One day she told me "East, I know you love me and I love you, but love is not enough.."

 

Is that sadly true or just an elegant cynical way to hide behind the barriers returning to the security a woman needs?

 

We all think we'd cross mountains and valleys to be with the one we love but when the reality kicks in we are not brave to make the changes.

 

Is love enough ? Do we face the reality and suck it up or is it plain cowardice ? I don't know if what she is still showing me is real love or nostalgia..

 

Or else tell me that I am confused and if she wanted to move and change her life, she would have done it !

 

I think for many, they are afraid of change, security is what is most important. It's cowardice, plain and simple. I think she loves you but not enough to take a risk, to embrace change. I think she reached out for reassurance from you. Selfish. She loves you, no doubt, but not enough. So leave it be. I think we all want someone who will move mountains for us. Leave her to her drab life of security. Life is short and we don't know how many days we have. As Helen Keller said " life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all".

[whichwayisup]

I think for many, they are afraid of change, security is what is most important. It's cowardice, plain and simple. I think she loves you but not enough to take a risk, to embrace change. I think she reached out for reassurance from you. Selfish. She loves you, no doubt, but not enough. So leave it be. I think we all want someone who will move mountains for us. Leave her to her drab life of security. Life is short and we don't know how many days we have. As Helen Keller said " life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all".

 

I agree. She isn't thinking of what is best for you, how you will feel contacting you when NC is supposed to be in place. She is only thinking of herself. Hearing from her keeps your mind on HER. She isn't stupid..She knows what she's doing is wrong since the A is over.

 

My question to you is, why can't you stand up to her and tell her STOP ALL CONTACT. Next time you email me or send me something in the mail, I will package it up and send it to your husband. How can you totally let go and feel in different about her if she keeps on butting back into your life? If she had her way, the A would start up again. Or at least an EA. And again, that's selfish of her and not good for you as it keeps you second fiddle in her life.

 

If she truly wanted to be with you, she WOULD divorce her husband. People divorce all the time, with or without an AP waiting in the wings.

[Spark1111]

Interesting East.

 

After dday, when my H had carte blanche to be with his OW, he was begging me to reconcile and I wasn't having it.

 

In came the sweet cards, the flowers, and words "I hope it is NOT too little too late." I had told him previously it was.

 

When I made the decision to give reconciliation a chance, I wrote to him, "I hope love and counseling are enough, but I don't think it will be me.

 

I needed to see action, every day, all day. I needed to see he had changed and was making me his priority.

 

So words are sweet,and we tend to alway remember that or those we could not have.

 

But without action, it's all smoke and mirrors, IMHO.

 

I was worth all that and more.

 

So are you.

[Furious]

When I discovered my husband's affair, he was dumfounded and shocked when I calmly wished him well and handed him his suitcase. I would not stand the way of true love, and as much as is hurt I would let him go.

 

Strangely enough that was not what he wanted, this man who for almost 2 years conducted a long distance affair and could now continue the relationship openly, suddenly lost his appetite for it.

 

I wonder if your MOW's husband was willing to let her go, would she?

 

Nostalgia or love....I think if it were love then you'd find a way to be together...nostalgia is part of the fantasy and sometimes people prefer to hang on to the fantasy rather than reality.

[Ladydrib]

 

 

One day she told me "East, I know you love me and I love you, but love is not enough.."

 

Is that sadly true or just an elegant cynical way to hide behind the barriers returning to the security a woman needs?

 

We all think we'd cross mountains and valleys to be with the one we love but when the reality kicks in we are not brave to make the changes.

 

Is love enough ? Do we face the reality and suck it up or is it plain cowardice ? I don't know if what she is still showing me is real love or nostalgia..

 

Or else tell me that I am confused and if she wanted to move and change her life, she would have done it !

 

Each of us is different. Does it matter if she is a coward or not? For me, sometimes I think my ex mm was a coward, but then I think, why does it matter? This is the logic - if he is in fact a coward, he is not the man I thought he was. If he is not a coward, then our relationship was not as important to him as it was to me. The end result is it makes no difference to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's his loss. I'm not losing amything if he had almost nothing to give.

 

Btw - women don't need security. Perhaps some people do, but I'm a woman who will sacrifice security for quality and reality any day. Maybe she is a coward.

[2sure]

Every year or so I get an email from a MM I had a 4 year affair with and last saw...8 years ago. He had some idea that we had something special ...and we did but it wasn't love by any stretch. Friendship, affection, some heat.

 

I am positive that when he emails me ...he is looking for an affirmation that he was so very special. Not me, not us. Him.

 

Obviously I ignore him. My life has changed so much I can't even imagine having those stupid conversations again. The oh so romantic what if convos that married APs seem to enjoy so much.

 

I'm sorry I had affairs with MM , but also I just can't believe I ever had the patience for the talking part.

 

Oh, back to your question...yeah she just needs a little ego boost. Lil drama. Probably bored.

[Barrsitter]

"We all think we'd cross mountains and valleys to be with the one we love but when the reality kicks in we are not brave to make the changes."

 

I think you might be right, East. It's sad, but alas, I think it's true. Imagine what our lives would be like if we didn't succumb to fear.

[sunlover]

Love or nostalgia....

I

'd like to bring this to LDRs.... Do you think those who do not see each other, touch each other, do things together.... Is this still love over such a long period of time ( years ) or is it nostalgia...the feelings that we HAD and theemories of those times.

[FightClub]

East,

 

It's interesting that you post this thread, I was going to start a thread also asking about the thoughts on 'is love enough?', it's something I've been thinking about the last few days.

 

Ya'know, it's sad in a productive way when you realize as time goes on that the innocence of being younger is that you have this vision or what love is or how you feel when your in love.

 

As if anything is possible and that everything is meant to be at that moment in time and then when the reality hits in normal relationships & affairs, you recognize that 'love', the concept of it, doesn't hold together quite as strong as you imagine it would when your feeling it.

 

If you had asked me three years ago, I would have said yes and yet almost two years after exMW, I see now what I couldn't see then.

 

I may have felt amazing, the chemistry, communication, the 'what if's' and can honestly say, where did it get me? where did the long hours of listening, exchanging idea's ultimately put me? Right back to square one.

 

I had to pick myself up again and I foolishly believed the special 'connection', was a sign that I'd found the right person who just happened to be in the wrong situation, now I know that was just a way to ignore what I really was, someone to help stabilize her tolerable marriage.

 

Love isn't enough and sometimes we have to be strong enough to see that for ourselves. In this case, your exMW is going to keep playing that game to distract herself from her tolerable marriage, which by the way is of her own design, if she wanted out and truly wanted a real-life with you, she'd be with you right now.

 

On the bright side, looking at it from a different perspective, aren't you glad that you're living your own life, regardless of hers?

 

-FC

[FightClub]

Pierre,

 

That could very well be the case, what I'm implying is what you just responded with, them being bored or otherwise and I never said I found true love, I'm saying I assumed I was in love or that the declarations of love meant more at that time.

 

-FC

[RickFox]

No, you're not confused (well you seem to be a bit confused now by her latest antics). She's throwing you the proverbial bone, making sure you don't forget about her while living her life the same as she always did, before, during and after you came along.

 

It may have once been love, but now, what you remember is how it felt, it's nostalgia, but for her, it's a game, to make sure you can't move on and as long as you respond to her, she knows you haven't.

 

You've given me some good advice before, it's high time you told this woman to take a flying leap and F off. Actions brother, actions speak louder than words, if she truly loved you that much, cared that much, felt so strongly, she'd have tried to be with you, but her actions, man they speak volumes.

[Emme]

Oh no... *Emme gets the gas mask for East* Lord let me get one for myself. Her fumes are just potent. I almost fell in love with her just reading your post.

 

 

So I received a very nice gift from xMW and a nice card with sweet words.

 

I know she still holds something for me..We have been loving, cursing, hating each other but we never really succeeded to stay indifferent (NC) for long time. Our A is now history (ended 2y ago) but somehow we still keep a lingering feeling for each-other. I have been seeing other women and I hoped that one of them would make me forget for good about MW, but it didn't happen. It sounds like the same is happening on her end. She has done lots of things to change her M and things with her life, it looks like I am still in the back of her mind. Real Love or nostalgia...Hard to tell.!

 

*smh* Sounds like she's back to her deceitful ways. Don't think about her marriage. You know nothing. It's neither love nor nostalgia. She's GREEDY!

 

Realistically there were too much barriers between us that implied a huge change in our respective lives going from geography to jobs, finances etc.(we were LD) I have held her for a long time accountable for "us" to make it real but I also recognize we are literally worlds apart in lot of (material) aspects. She had to drop everything she had to be with me and the same for me.

 

No such thing. The berlin wall game down in 89. Barrier is just another word to camouflage the lack of interest in bringing something to light. It's just a fancy word for laziness.

 

 

One day she told me "East, I know you love me and I love you, but love is not enough.."

 

Is that sadly true or just an elegant cynical way to hide behind the barriers returning to the security a woman needs?

 

Love is always enough. Ask two homeless people who love each other. They don't have a pot to piss in or a warm bed at night but the love is there. They are in it together and the struggle makes that love even stronger.

 

 

We all think we'd cross mountains and valleys to be with the one we love but when the reality kicks in we are not brave to make the changes.

 

Is love enough ? Do we face the reality and suck it up or is it plain cowardice ? I don't know if what she is still showing me is real love or nostalgia..

 

Or else tell me that I am confused and if she wanted to move and change her life, she would have done it !

 

All you have to do is cross a street. What mountains and valleys. Exaggeration:bunny:.

 

Love is all you need. Not money.

 

You're a man that didn't past go, didn't collect two hundred dollars and went straight to jail. That is where this woman has you. Jail. Most of us are trying to play this game of life and your just sitting in jail while we play. You haven't broken those chains off and no matter how hard you throw that dice you won't be free. Dating other women is just a hallucination. You can't move forward if you are bonded. If she loved you, she would be yours. It's that simple. She doesn't want you, she gets no part of you. None!

[Silly_Girl]

You guys assume these women are in so called tolerable marriages and that they found true love with the two of you. However, the more likely story is that the women were bored and wanted variety. There may not be anything wrong with their marriages. These woman may simply be insecure philanderers in search for extra attention.

 

Just curious - have you been in love in an affair scenario?

[woinlove]

Is love enough ? Do we face the reality and suck it up or is it plain cowardice ? I don't know if what she is still showing me is real love or nostalgia..

 

Being happy and content with oneself, having good communication and relationship skills, and values conducive to to treating others well, allows one to show, give and receive love more fully. In that case, yes, love is certainly enough. It can take a couple or a family through major crises, make good times great, and enrich their lives enormously.

 

However, take the love of a needy, selfish person searching for external validation, and, no, love is definitely not enough. I would place very low odds on love from this particular women being enough. If she says "love is not enough", I would believe her own evaluation of her own love.

[Silly_Girl]

Yes, I did the EA and then got physical. Then, I immediately stopped. The whole thing did not make sense and I did not enjoy the secrecy that was immediately imposed once it got to the physical stage. The physical component was a waking call. I immediately knew it was suicidal to continue. I felt dirty and awful. I felt very bad for the husband at home.

 

I have also done a lot of research on the topic and it confirms the sensations I felt and how everyone else feels.

 

I have also concluded that folks that have affairs with married people have a tendency to easily fall in love and may be quite needy at that point in time. They also have an enormous capacity to rationalize.

 

Interesting that you've been in love yet seem to think there's no capacity for the married person to also love. Sometimes they do, very much. And sometimes they don't.

[East7]

Thanks a lot for your valuable posts.

 

I have been too busy to follow the thread, but reading these posts was somehow a wake up call for me.

 

Yes, she is seeking validation once in a while she wants to feel special for me, she wants my admiration which is obviously very selfish. But on the other hand I also think, if she wanted so much validation there are plenty of local potential OM. I am too far away from her. Maybe because it is safe for her to have a distant OM, no need for secret dates, just a call, text, e-mail once in a while to feed the ego without having to deal with someone around.

 

I also think that could be in the low moments of her marriage that she feels so much the need to reach out and contact me. It is a human reaction that when the primary relationship doesn't work well, people seek validation elsewhere. The Ex boyfirend, xOM are perfect targets for this kind of remedy pill. What easier than to turn back to those happy moments in time and say "we were so much in love, weren't we?" - However...not sure that if her H threw her out she would be running to me

 

I have to keep telling myself she had nothing to offer me during the affair and no more now, so this is it. No need for dragging into endless what-ifs...

[sleepie]

I do not think this--meaning the need for validation--is limited to married people or As.

 

During the course of my life, I've had numerous ex-boyfriends (from pre-married days) contact me. Phone calls and emails mostly. Sometimes a decade or so after I last saw them. Maybe they wanted to reconnect. Or maybe they just wanted to "remember when."

 

I, myself, remember reminiscing about my "first love" from high school at times. Wondering how he was, what he was doing, if he had kids... I don't do it now that my life has changed, but I did it for years and years.

 

I think we all like to believe that we're special. And our past relationships have been special. And love we've shared has been special.

 

And yes, I do think we tend to reach out to those in our past when we're at our most vulnerable. I know one ex I hadn't spoken to in almost 20 years contacted me right before he was leaving for Iraq.

 

I think this all makes us human. We're all needy, to a certain extent, whether it's for validation or love or companionship.

 

People can come here and talk about finding "internal validation" and all that stuff, but ultimately we're humans. We're social creatures. And we need other people.

 

That said, I'm saying your xMW's actions are understandable, even if she's fishing or looking for an ego-boost. Understandable, yes. Forgivable, maybe. Worth your time, no.

[FelicityShot]

If she were a cake eater, she would have been more clever about keeping you on the hook for longer.

 

She may contact you because her own feelings are not resolved, rather than because she wants validation.

 

I think here on LS people want things done dusted and put away, and there is some sanity in that - but most people want truth more than they want things put away.

 

It is the point at which we apprehend truth for ourselves that the focus on the other person is less important.

 

I see someone swinging between the desire to view the other as negative - in need of validation, ego mania, messed up, narcissicistic, whatever, - and viewing the other as the love of their life and therefore worthy of eternal love and respect.

 

It is of very little importance at this point what she is like or how she behaves - if she were with you in your life this would be a source of joy/disappointment/learning.

 

LS seems to encourage this swinging - I think because there is so much dogma about infidelity.

 

If you can cut yourself some slack, cut it from that. And just feel what feels true, and act in your own integrity.

[whichwayisup]

Maybe because it is safe for her to have a distant OM, no need for secret dates, just a call, text, e-mail once in a while to feed the ego without having to deal with someone around.

 

Boy, she's treating you like a piece of meat. Doesn't it piss you off?

 

Honestly WHO CARES what her reasonings are as to why she keeps reaching out to you. All I know is every time she does contact you - It sets you back a bit and you 'think' of her. She's in your head and that's not good.

 

Next time she sends something in the mail, send it back to her without opening it with a written note ON the envelope to leave you alone and never contact you again.

 

If you don't stand up for yourself, she's going to do this to you for the rest of your life.

 

Or, is it possible that you do enjoy her contact as it makes you feel good? On some level her sending you stuff through snail mail and email, or calls feeds your ego too. And you don't want it to totally stop because you are afraid of never hearing from her again? Just taking a different angle on this.

Edited July 22, 2012 by whichwayisup