Do you HAVE to be pushy to avoid the FZ??

[irc333]

This thread inspired THIS thread. When you refer to how men should be aggressive, take control, etc.

 

 

There's this woman I met at a Meetup event, but she wound up leaving early so I didn't get a chance to ask for her phone #.

So I contacted her on FB, added her, and we had chatted a bit, but when I asked her out, the chat conversion went silent.

And then I said, "Hello?" and she said, "Sorry, I'm out to lunch with my co-workers".

 

I was like "Oh okay."

A few days later, I noticed she'd be attending a Meetup with a group of people to see a movie. I was chatting with her about it and turns out she had to change her RSVP to "No". She was going out of town for about a week.

 

And I said, "Oh, so when you get back how about you and I go see the movie?"

 

She says, "Well, I think there's another Meetup event for the same movie at a later time." And I said, "Oh, when?"

 

She said she didn't know at this point, she would have to find out later.

 

I then asked, "Well, how about I get your phone # and we can stay in touch?"

She said, "Well, I'll be out of town with family, so I won't be able to talk on the phone when I'm out with them, but I'll catch you when I get back. But I'll be checking in regularly on FB because I'm a FB addict! LOL"

 

She also has a tendency to put "LOL" after EVERY statement. I mean almost ALL the time.

NOW, the example of taking action, not being the guy who gets FZ'ed.

 

Should I just say, "Hey, listen, if you're interested in going out with me or not just say so, and I'll leave you alone, okay?"

So basically she didn't say "No" but being highly evasive in going beyond talking online.

Of course, you're cornering her, you might sound like a pushy arsehole, but at least your accomplishing NOT being placed in the FZ??

 

Or say it in a way that doesn't sound too threatening or pushy?

 

OR do you HAVE To be pushy to avoid the FZ??

[xxoo]

A few days later, I noticed she'd be attending a Meetup with a group of people to see a movie. I was chatting with her about it and turns out she had to change her RSVP to "No". She was going out of town for about a week.

 

And I said, "Oh, so when you get back how about you and I go see the movie?"

 

She says, "Well, I think there's another Meetup event for the same movie at a later time." And I said, "Oh, when?"

 

You don't have to be pushy, but you do have to be clear.

 

After she said there was another Meetup for the same movie, that is your opportunity to clarify: "I meant I'd like to take you to see the movie alone--just you and me. I want to take you on a date." She will either say no, say yes and make firm arrangements, or be evasive. Assume anything other than firm arrangements means she doesn't want to date you, and move on.

[irc333]

You don't have to be pushy, but you do have to be clear.

 

After she said there was another Meetup for the same movie, that is your opportunity to clarify: "I meant I'd like to take you to see the movie alone--just you and me. I want to take you on a date." She will either say no, say yes and make firm arrangements, or be evasive. Assume anything other than firm arrangements means she doesn't want to date you, and move on.

 

Good point, she'll either be evasive or use a stalling tactic.

 

I knew of guys where women would ask THEM out, then flake...and make it cyclical.

[irc333]

...and I have this male friend of mine, and I swear he says he doesn't ask a woman out on a date in the traditional a way, but he "phrases" his sentences to make it seem like he's NOT asking them out so as to be non-threatening in the wording.

 

He'd say something wishy washy like "I'm going to this fun event, and would you like to join me on this fun event, because I think you're a fun person."

 

Basically trying to make the event sound appealing to her attend, not him. More focused on the event itself and the experience, but not about the interest level.

[oaks]

Even if I accept for a moment the premise that being pushy could avoid "the friendzone", the moment has passed with this one - she's clearly not interested. Being pushy will just annoy her.

[yongyong]

Move on. Go to meetup event and hit on other chicks in front of her. that's the best thing you can do at this point.

[irc333]

Even if I accept for a moment the premise that being pushy could avoid "the friendzone", the moment has passed with this one - she's clearly not interested. Being pushy will just annoy her.

 

I think I know where you're getting at, not sure about the "premise of being pushy".

Are you saying that if YOU think that "Hey, I might have to get pushy with this chick." that you back off, or if they're being evasive, try to get her focused on the "yes or no" of the question?

See that's just it, I see a lot of people giving so-called advice about "Not letting women getting you into the FZ."

 

But some men....have to corner a woman into answering them directly in order to do so, right? Well, depending on the situation and the woman, it MIGHT have to come to that.

And I'm not talking about being a complete arse about it, but ask it in a more civilized way.

 

But, hey at least I got balls, right?

[oaks]

I think I know where you're getting at, not sure about the "premise of being pushy".

Are you saying that if YOU think that "Hey, I might have to get pushy with this chick." that you back off, or if they're being evasive, try to get her focused on the "yes or no" of the question?

 

Mostly I'm saying that I think the answer to the question in the subject is "no, you do not have to be pushy to avoid the friend-zone", and in the case of this specific woman, "she's not interested anyway".

 

Women who are interested... are interested. You just need to be clear that you're interested, too. I do see some value in clarifying that asking someone out is intended to be as a date when they misunderstand (or pretend to misunderstand, or just get evasive) and suggest going as a group, but I don't think that's being pushy... it's just stating your position.

[irc333]

Mostly I'm saying that I think the answer to the question in the subject is "no, you do not have to be pushy to avoid the friend-zone", and in the case of this specific woman, "she's not interested anyway".

 

Women who are interested... are interested. You just need to be clear that you're interested, too. I do see some value in clarifying that asking someone out is intended to be as a date when they misunderstand (or pretend to misunderstand, or just get evasive) and suggest going as a group, but I don't think that's being pushy... it's just stating your position.

 

Right, and I think a lot of men get wrapped up in that area there, and wind up more so in the friend zone because the women is "pretending" to misunderstand. LOL

 

I just found it odd that she knew of another Meetup that was having the same event, for the same movie, at a different time.

 

I didn't think she'd fire THAT back at me, but what are the odds.

 

I said, "Well, since you'll miss that meet up, how about we get together and see it a later time when you get back in town?"

 

I'm not sure if she KNEW I meant "Just her and me, alone" or with another Meetup.

 

So I clarified that, "Well, actually, after you get back, how about you just and ME see the movie on a date?"

 

So' we'll see what her answer is there. IF she even answers, funny though, she'll converse with you otherwise if it doesn't involve you asking her out. LOL

[DjinnAgain]

This thread inspired THIS thread. When you refer to how men should be aggressive, take control, etc.

 

 

There's this woman I met at a Meetup event, but she wound up leaving early so I didn't get a chance to ask for her phone #.

So I contacted her on FB, added her, and we had chatted a bit, but when I asked her out, the chat conversion went silent.

And then I said, "Hello?" and she said, "Sorry, I'm out to lunch with my co-workers".

 

I was like "Oh okay."

A few days later, I noticed she'd be attending a Meetup with a group of people to see a movie. I was chatting with her about it and turns out she had to change her RSVP to "No". She was going out of town for about a week.

 

And I said, "Oh, so when you get back how about you and I go see the movie?"

 

She says, "Well, I think there's another Meetup event for the same movie at a later time." And I said, "Oh, when?"

 

She said she didn't know at this point, she would have to find out later.

 

I then asked, "Well, how about I get your phone # and we can stay in touch?"

She said, "Well, I'll be out of town with family, so I won't be able to talk on the phone when I'm out with them, but I'll catch you when I get back. But I'll be checking in regularly on FB because I'm a FB addict! LOL"

 

She also has a tendency to put "LOL" after EVERY statement. I mean almost ALL the time.

NOW, the example of taking action, not being the guy who gets FZ'ed.

 

Should I just say, "Hey, listen, if you're interested in going out with me or not just say so, and I'll leave you alone, okay?"

So basically she didn't say "No" but being highly evasive in going beyond talking online.

Of course, you're cornering her, you might sound like a pushy arsehole, but at least your accomplishing NOT being placed in the FZ??

 

Or say it in a way that doesn't sound too threatening or pushy?

 

OR do you HAVE To be pushy to avoid the FZ??

 

 

If it's someone I have any interest in, they will not be friendzoned.

 

If I'm not interested, it's not going anywhere no matter how pushy they are or are not.

 

I have lost interest in a guy completely that I had some interest for being too pushy, especially when I have plenty going on!

[xxoo]

funny though, she'll converse with you otherwise if it doesn't involve you asking her out. LOL

 

If she didn't, she'd be labelled as rude, stuck up, b!itchy, etc. She's being friendly and nice, but doesn't want to date you.

 

Is it wrong to be friendly and nice? Do you see friendliness as leading you on?

[irc333]

especially when I have plenty going on!

Oh, really? And what is that? LOL

 

Anyways, I'd prefer she say, "I'm just not attracted to you in that way." I actually had a woman do that with me, and we became pretty good friends somehow. LOL

 

She's pretty good at getting along with people, but I really appreciated her honesty. It even kind of relieved me after I asked her out.

 

I just don't like to be left hanging.

[irc333]

If she didn't, she'd be labelled as rude, stuck up, b!itchy, etc. She's being friendly and nice, but doesn't want to date you.

 

Is it wrong to be friendly and nice? Do you see friendliness as leading you on?

 

Not at all, I just prefer to give me a straight up answer to he question. Sorry to be like an attorney, but hey...that's what I'd like to hear.

 

I'm sure if we meet again at another Meetup, I'm sure we'll converse, but there might always be that "elephant in the room" of me asking her out, and being evasive about it.

[carhill]

No, you don't have to be pushy. Stick to your style and reject any or all who don't match up with your expectations. The key is knowing both your style and your expectations. Then it's merely a matter of executing. The more you reject, the easier it gets.

[irc333]

I have lost interest in a guy completely that I had some interest for being too pushy, especially when I have plenty going on!

 

Going back to the subject of "pushy" whats the difference between that and persistence?

 

I remember seeing this show, this couple was talking about how they met, and he said he asked her out 5 times and turned him down...and agreed to go out with him the 6th time he asked her out. They even got married. The wife even joked, "Yeah, that was before stalking laws existed". And everyone laughed.

 

Of course, I've seen this happen in real life, too.

 

Figure that one out, eh?

[DjinnAgain]

Oh, really? And what is that? LOL

.

 

I have a child, so I will admit plenty going on is more likely to be sincere than it was back when I was just myself.

[DjinnAgain]

Going back to the subject of "pushy" whats the difference between that and persistence?

 

If a guy clarifies his interest (nothing wrong with that) and I clearly state I'm not interested at all or at that time, and every conversation or anything still brings it up yet he keeps having conversations with me and saying it doesn't matter, that is pushy. (I will say whether the lack of interest is period or because of what's going on with me so he can make clear decisions)

If sex is brought up constantly, that is pushy.

And I'd bet for each guy it paid off for (and I'm imagining they played it a little better), a lot of guys have lost someone period.

 

 

I do agree people should be clear with their thoughts. If they're interested, say ONCE that you are interested. If you're not, and someone says that, tell them you are not and don't just leave them building a lot of hope. In my early twenties I was afraid to hurt people's feelings by saying Never, but I know that was a mistake now.

[phineas]

Yes, women like to complain about men being all about sex and whatnot but unless you make your intentions clear very early on you can go right ahead and enjoy your place as her new BFF.

 

I've freindzoned women who freindzoned me & they wound up wanting to date me eventually.

 

In the mean time I wasn't sitting idly by holding a torch for her.

I was out there going after other women & letting her see how well I treat those women & making her as much of a priority as her FWB.

 

Which is usually just below my work-out or cutting the lawn. Like my other friends.

[thatone]

This thread inspired THIS thread. When you refer to how men should be aggressive, take control, etc.

 

 

There's this woman I met at a Meetup event, but she wound up leaving early so I didn't get a chance to ask for her phone #.

So I contacted her on FB, added her, and we had chatted a bit, but when I asked her out, the chat conversion went silent.

And then I said, "Hello?" and she said, "Sorry, I'm out to lunch with my co-workers".

 

I was like "Oh okay."

A few days later, I noticed she'd be attending a Meetup with a group of people to see a movie. I was chatting with her about it and turns out she had to change her RSVP to "No". She was going out of town for about a week.

 

And I said, "Oh, so when you get back how about you and I go see the movie?"

 

She says, "Well, I think there's another Meetup event for the same movie at a later time." And I said, "Oh, when?"

 

She said she didn't know at this point, she would have to find out later.

 

I then asked, "Well, how about I get your phone # and we can stay in touch?"

She said, "Well, I'll be out of town with family, so I won't be able to talk on the phone when I'm out with them, but I'll catch you when I get back. But I'll be checking in regularly on FB because I'm a FB addict! LOL"

 

She also has a tendency to put "LOL" after EVERY statement. I mean almost ALL the time.

NOW, the example of taking action, not being the guy who gets FZ'ed.

 

Should I just say, "Hey, listen, if you're interested in going out with me or not just say so, and I'll leave you alone, okay?"

So basically she didn't say "No" but being highly evasive in going beyond talking online.

Of course, you're cornering her, you might sound like a pushy arsehole, but at least your accomplishing NOT being placed in the FZ??

 

Or say it in a way that doesn't sound too threatening or pushy?

 

OR do you HAVE To be pushy to avoid the FZ??

 

don't ever give her the opportunity to say no.

 

this isn't rocket science...a) figure out what she wants, b) give it to her. don't ask her if she wants it, if you ask the average mentally deformed woman if she wants a million dollars she'll tell you no as she takes it. so don't ask any yes/no questions before your foot is in the door.

 

you have her facebook info, scour her interests and what not and come up with something you KNOW she will want to do, and invite her to go do it. from that point on yes be aggressive, but being aggressive is not asking point blank questions and expecting yes/no answers. you will NEVER get that from women.

[Leopard]

In my honest opinion, I don't think you can avoid the friend zone no matter what you try.

 

The friend zone exists because that's where we put men we don't find attractive . Unless you can magically change how attractive she sees you, then you won't get the girl regardless what you do.

 

There are just some things you can't change

[irc333]

I think this is why MEN have it harder than women when it comes to dating.

 

Men have to think or judge for themselves on whether they're being too pushy or not to get a straight answer from a woman.

 

It can be sometimes hard to judge, when she's being evasive or something....you don't want to come off pushy or even labeled as a stalker, but yet you don't want to miss out on something that could be great if you didn't ask for REAL clarification.

[fishtaco]

It's easy actually, I don't know what you're talking about. Be straight forward. That's not pushy. Pushy is not taking no for an answer.

 

You want a date, you won't accept anything but a real date, no friend date or whatever, a date date. However, she gets to say no.

 

That's not pushy.

[KathyM]

You're coming across as too desperate and too available. It sounds to me like she's not that interested and is putting you off. People make time for those they are interested in. They don't keep making excuses why they can't see you. Ask her out for a specific day, and if she's busy, ask her when would be good for her. If she stalls with an answer, then she's not interested, and you had better move on. Being pushy is not a good plan and will only make you come across as desperate. You avoid the FZ by asking for the date upfront and then giving it a romantic tone from the start.

[phineas]

It's easy actually, I don't know what you're talking about. Be straight forward. That's not pushy. Pushy is not taking no for an answer.

 

You want a date, you won't accept anything but a real date, no friend date or whatever, a date date. However, she gets to say no.

 

That's not pushy.

 

And once she says no she's history.

And stays history unless she wants to go on a date.

[zengirl]

If she didn't, she'd be labelled as rude, stuck up, b!itchy, etc. She's being friendly and nice, but doesn't want to date you.

 

Is it wrong to be friendly and nice? Do you see friendliness as leading you on?

 

Yes, it's a fine line women are asked to walk sometimes.

 

It's easy actually, I don't know what you're talking about. Be straight forward. That's not pushy. Pushy is not taking no for an answer.

 

You want a date, you won't accept anything but a real date, no friend date or whatever, a date date. However, she gets to say no.

 

That's not pushy.

 

I agree that this is what you should do and that it's not pushy at all. Stating directly what you want and your boundaries is not being pushy - pushy is trying to force your way past another person's boundaries. Direct is great and putting out direct interest, even sexually-charged direct interest is NOT disrespectful or pushy unless you continue it past when it's clearly been made unwelcome.