iris219 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 "To me" (to repeat that relativist absurdity you and certain others are so fond of here) lotteries have -everything- to do with relationships, and it's my right "to me" to define my subjective dating success as winning the lottery if I want because I'm a special snowflake! But for the objective folks out there who prefer reason, we can stay with a definition of "dating success" as being "able to get and go on acceptable dates" and exclude all the "happy ever after" or winning the lottery" subjective BS that you are trying to inject into a perfectly fine objective definition. Fine. Let's use your definition of dating success, which is "able to get and go on acceptable dates." Your definition makes sense in that it is a necessary step in the relationship process, and I like that it doesn't include "getting approached by wildly inappropriate people" as successful, but I'm not seeing how women have an easier time finding acceptable dates.
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 The fundamental difference here is that women have to be good at judging someone's character from brief to moderate length interactions. Meanwhile men have to be good at being brave enough to talk to women. If you're not good at one of the above skills, it's going to be hard to be successful. Sometimes you might get lucky, but most of the time you won't.
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I wouldn't say you'd qualify as "most women". Why, thank you! Or, conversely, Whaddya mean? Are you insulting me, young man?
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 No logical or accurate response can be made to refute this. Hm. What makes you the world's greatest expert on logic? I think you subscribe to the lame "because I say so" school of thought. There seems to be a very cohesive club of you boys here. It's nice to see fellows so supportive of one another. Male bonding is beautiful. Light a big fire, percuss together. Cool. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Why, thank you! Or, conversely, Whaddya mean? Are you insulting me, young man? No offense meant. You just seem wiser and more reflective than most people in the world. Even though I sometimes disagree with the things you say.
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 It's important to note that women always have the peace of mind that they aren't in danger of being alone . What about all the women who actually ARE alone? Or do you claim that there is no such thing?
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 No offense meant. You just seem wiser and more reflective than most people in the world. Even though I sometimes disagree with the things you say. It comes with the "old as dirt" territory. Thank you!
dasein Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Light a big fire, percuss together. Cool. At least we eventually get around to lighting a real fire and the result of the bonding is -something- of substance, not all just bilious gustings of apparently limitless hot air.
dbzeng Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I would say it is even more than 2x easier. If you are an attractive woman, forget about it. Guys give them cars, rent money, expensive jewelry basically whatever they want. Women get to sit back and select who they want, they do have to pick wisely though. For women, there is basically no down side to dating. If the guy is great then they date him if not, at worst you got a free meal at a nice restaurant and drinks.
SincereOnlineGuy Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I seriously think being born female makes dating 2x more easier This would make sense only in the event you were making a comparison to those 'born male' who then 'became' female. Otherwise, you are trying to suggest that actual 'dating' is easier, when in reality you're merely envious of the multiples of greater opportunities (born-)females know. It's like baseball: While it may be easier for females to get a hit, once you're on first base (pun noted!), the base paths are no easier to navigate for females than for males.
ColoredBlack Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Hm. What makes you the world's greatest expert on logic? I think you subscribe to the lame "because I say so" school of thought. There seems to be a very cohesive club of you boys here. It's nice to see fellows so supportive of one another. Male bonding is beautiful. Light a big fire, percuss together. Cool. attacking me does not make his statement any less true.
phineas Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 This would make sense only in the event you were making a comparison to those 'born male' who then 'became' female. Otherwise, you are trying to suggest that actual 'dating' is easier, when in reality you're merely envious of the multiples of greater opportunities (born-)females know. It's like baseball: While it may be easier for females to get a hit, once you're on first base (pun noted!), the base paths are no easier to navigate for females than for males. But OP is stuck riding the bench. Women are picky & disqualify perfectly good man for the silliest of reasons. Give a man as many at bats as the average woman & he will make it to home plate & proceed to coach his son's little league team. women like to get the bases loaded before they step up to the plate then won't swing until they get a perfect pitch & if it means they get walked or struck out? well hey, they just blame the pitcher.
somedude81 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Hm, good point. I better call up my friends in medical school and tell them to quit and get married ASAP so they don't ruin their lives. Because if they graduate and complete their residencies, finding themselves still single and nearing 35, they'll be considered worthless by men and will miss out on the single most important thing in life - being married. To anyone. Anyone at all. Thanks for the tip, sd. These ladies have their priorities all mixed up in working to be independent adults with a fulfilling career. Nearing 35, never been married, no kids. Are you trying to make my point for me? Hey it's fine if they don't mind being single and not having kids. I just hope they aren't complaining about how all the good men are taken when she's in her 40's.
SincereOnlineGuy Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 But OP is stuck riding the bench. Uhhhhhhhhh, there is no "bench". You are either dating, or you're not dating. Thus actual "dating" is no more difficult for males than for females.
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 At least we eventually get around to lighting a real fire and the result of the bonding is -something- of substance, not all just bilious gustings of apparently limitless hot air. You mean all those bilious, apparently limitless gustings of hot air from y'all on this forum are not all you have to offer? You light real fires in addition to that? Good to know, and good for you!
phineas Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Nearing 35, never been married, no kids. Are you trying to make my point for me? Hey it's fine if they don't mind being single and not having kids. I just hope they aren't complaining about how all the good men are taken when she's in her 40's. IDK, The whole medical & law stuff does take a good chunk of a person's time. Most women I know my age single are single not because they spent their 20's in law/medical school plus internships but because they've run out of good looking jerks to use them for sex. They have slept with all of them. They have even gotten in a jerk exchange program with their GF's who are in the same boat & still they have run out of fresh jerks to date. Their own age. There is an untapped resource of 50+ jerks just looking for younger women to use for sex. I know a few of these women in their late 30's. Their pioneers! 1
veggirl Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Getting way off-topic. I have always struggled in school. Elementary, Jr. High, High school, I was a D average student. It took me five years to get out of Jr. College, which shold have been done in two. I started Jr. college the same year I graduated HS. In that time I may have taken one or two semesters off to work because I was sick of school. I started my current university at 28 and September will be my third year there. So no, it's not like I graduated high school, and waited 10 years to start college. With that thought in mind, those women who chose to focus on their education, travel and just play around, that was their opportunity cost. BTW, wanting to finish college first before a girl gets married, isn't even an excuse for somebody who finds themselves single and never been married at 30. Most people, unless they really suck at school, graduate college at 23 or younger. Wanting to focus on her career is a very poor choice because she can end up working till she's in her mid 60's while her market value as a woman will hardly last that long. So according to your logic, you wasted your teens, 20s not ever learning how to actually ask a woman out and no one should sympathize with you now cause it's YOUR FAULT you didn't do those things early on. You wasted your time not cultivating a social circle, or developing any social finesse. So why should we feel bad for you now?
ColoredBlack Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 So according to your logic, you wasted your teens, 20s not ever learning how to actually ask a woman out and no one should sympathize with you now cause it's YOUR FAULT you didn't do those things early on. You wasted your time not cultivating a social circle, or developing any social finesse. So why should we feel bad for you now? Cuz if he was a female, in his teens and 20s he would not of had to ask anyone out and would have had tons of dates.
phineas Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Uhhhhhhhhh, there is no "bench". You are either dating, or you're not dating. Thus actual "dating" is no more difficult for males than for females. In your baseball analogy there sure is a bench. OP is riding it & women have as many at- bats as they want. That does in fact make things easier for them. More options doesn't make things easier?
Kamille Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 All right. You guys convinced me. Women have it easier at dating. Now what? 3
somedude81 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 So according to your logic, you wasted your teens, 20s not ever learning how to actually ask a woman out and no one should sympathize with you now cause it's YOUR FAULT you didn't do those things early on. You wasted your time not cultivating a social circle, or developing any social finesse. So why should we feel bad for you now? I expected a response like that, but not from you veggirl I have been actively trying to get a girlfriend since I was 13 years old. I have tried to make and join social circles, I have tired to develop my social skills, I have pushed myself outside of my comfort zone, I have tried various ways of asking out girls. I've even tried medication and therapy to overcome my depression so I can be more attractive to women. So is it really fair to compare me, who has been trying and failing to get a girlfriend for the past 17 years, to a woman who simply put dating off because other things were more important to her? There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that if I had been born a woman, and had the same personality and relative looks as I do now, I would have been married with kids a long time ago.
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 So according to your logic, you wasted your teens, 20s not ever learning how to actually ask a woman out and no one should sympathize with you now cause it's YOUR FAULT you didn't do those things early on. You wasted your time not cultivating a social circle, or developing any social finesse. So why should we feel bad for you now? I know you didn't start this little tete a tete, but why must there be "fault" attached to these things? Being good with women isn't really a choice, it's something that's either there or it isn't. Probably something to do with genetics and evolutionary biology. In the past some males never mated, why should we think this would change in modern times? However, putting your career first over relationships and romance is a choice. One that can come with some negative side effects (along with some good ones). SD is wrong in implying that this makes women like that "bad" or somehow not "deserving" of love, but he is right in that it's a choice. Men certainly can put careers over their personal lives and end up with strained marriages and strained relationships with their children. In short, we should feel bad for people like SD. Much like we feel bad for wild animals we see injured in the woods. That doesn't mean though that it's incumbent on anyone to do something about it.
somedude81 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 As has also been stated, even men 40+ still have problems with women. The very fact that the PUA industry even exists is proof that men have much more trouble with dating then women do. There can not be a product without the market for it.
veggirl Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I expected a response like that, but not from you veggirl I have been actively trying to get a girlfriend since I was 13 years old. I have tried to make and join social circles, I have tired to develop my social skills, I have pushed myself outside of my comfort zone, I have tried various ways of asking out girls. I've even tried medication and therapy to overcome my depression so I can be more attractive to women. So is it really fair to compare me, who has been trying and failing to get a girlfriend for the past 17 years, to a woman who simply put dating off because other things were more important to her? There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that if I had been born a woman, and had the same personality and relative looks as I do now, I would have been married with kids a long time ago. I know, my post sounded very cold! That's how yours come across when you say that any woman 30+ without a man is a loser who wasted her time and did it all wrong. By your logic, you did too. I don't agree with EITHER OF THOSE ASSESSMENTS. I *do* agree that sex is easier for women to obtain, DATES are easier for them obtain, but relationships are not. IME more women are looking for Rs (in their 20s, maybe even 30s) than guys are. There are more women competing for R oriented guys in their 20s because those guys are fewer and further between than R oriented girls in their 20s. And I don't think saying "date a guy in his 30s" is a solution for a girl in her 20s, plenty want guys around their age. Hey I sympathize with you probably more than most on this board, and it is disheartening when you paint all women with these broad generalizations, you're a loser if you're not married when you're 30 and all that. I am 29 and I doubt I will be married when I am 30 considering that is in 9 months! So I'd need to be engaged by now! And I don't think I'm a loser! I don't think you are a loser for not having a GF. Like I said, I can totally sympathize with you but why can't you extend the same courtesy to women? That's the part that is annoying. 2
Kamille Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 As has also been stated, even men 40+ still have problems with women. The very fact that the PUA industry even exists is proof that men have much more trouble with dating then women do. There can not be a product without the market for it. Er well, ever read Cosmo? There's quite the market to give women dating advice as well.
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