I seriously think being born female makes dating 2x more easier.

[Bob_Funk]

I doubt that the guy who asked out 999 girls and was rejected by all of them is average.

 

If we're talking just coffee dates, maybe not. But if we're talking from first contact to sex, a guy could EASILY go through that many rejections before finding a willing partner.

 

You're completely oblivious, dear.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

 

He's trash dump him.

Yes he thinks your a slut, don't have sex so soon.

You're a whore for cheating, tell him so he can dump your ass.

 

 

Oh poo. Only one more name calling and you could have had a Trifecta of hate speach.

[carhill]

Oh, I forgot that women also make a lot of FWB threads and she's fallen for the guy and wondering if he's going to fall for her.

 

The answer is most likely, no. Don't have sex with somebody you're not in a relationship with.

The hard part is defining 'relationship', just like with the disparities we're seeing here in this thread. For some people, FWB is a relationship. I've actually seen it listed as such in threads, mainly by young women. So, in that sense, perhaps they make the OP's point, as well as mine. Superficially, it's far easier for any one woman to solicit or accept a casual sexual 'relationship' from/with a man. She merely needs to 'pick one'. I see those thread on LS all the time, where a woman has a number of men pursuing her sexually and she picks a 'hot one' for sex this weekend because she's horny. I've seen this dynamic personally in real life as well, mainly amongst my exW's female friends. I watched exactly how they 'did it', many times in person. Beyond that kind of dynamic, similar to receiving unsolicited attention, the playing field levels out markedly IME, as far as gender-specific 'easier' goes. It all depends what one is focusing on when using the '2x easier' description. We each focus differently.

[iris219]

The main belief behind this concept is that few men actually think that women have any dating issues at all.

 

The most common 'dating problem' I see from women on here, is that her people picker is way off and she got into a relationship with a scumbag, and doesn't know what to do because she "loves him so much."

 

Other common threads are, "We had sex on the first date, does he think I'm a slut." And also, "I cheated, I feel like a slut, can I keep this to myself?"

 

BTW, the answers are.

 

He's trash dump him.

Yes he thinks your a slut, don't have sex so soon.

You're a whore for cheating, tell him so he can dump your ass.

 

I don't make threads like these, and I'm infamous on here for not being able to find a man.

 

Have you ever thought that the women who make threads like the ones above do so because they had so few options they were forced to settle for less than they deserved?

 

I

 

Yes, women can get sex more easily. No, women do not generally consider that dating success, as they are socialized not to do so, and the few women who DO view that as 'success' and flaunt their sexuality are often socially criticized, by men and women.

 

This^. I wish more men could comprehend this. For many women, being sexually desired but not desired for a relationship is considered absolute failure.

 

I'd rather a man not desire me sexually and leave me alone done rather than try to sleep with me with no intentions of commitment.

[somedude81]

There are certainly some single women on here who can't find anyone (I could name at least half a dozen off-hand). A lot of them are a bit older (makes sense, with how dating ages skew), but they're still women. I'd say there are quite a few single women who are looking without success -- they don't post the same kinds of threads as you do, but that's a socialization issue in terms of how women and men are taught to communicate about such things.

If it wasn't clear already, I have little sympathy for women who are older and having trouble finding a man.

 

If she's still single because of one of Mme. Chaucer reasons, "completing her education? Traveling the world and having adventures," then she screwed up and has her priorities out of order. It's like a kid who got accepted to an NBA team but he declines it, then 10 years later he decides to accept but is having trouble finding a team.

 

BTW, can you name six women under 30 on this board who are having trouble finding me? I'll start you off

 

1. verhrzn (and note that she's had about five boyfriends so far)

[iris219]

If it wasn't clear already, I have little sympathy for women who are older and having trouble finding a man.

 

If she's still single because of one of Mme. Chaucer reasons, "completing her education? Traveling the world and having adventures," then she screwed up and has her priorities out of order. It's like a kid who got accepted to an NBA team but he declines it, then 10 years later he decides to accept but is having trouble finding a team.

 

BTW, can you name six women under 30 on this board who are having trouble finding me? I'll start you off

 

1. verhrzn (and note that she's had about five boyfriends so far)

 

I’ve had trouble since I was 26; I'm 33 now. I always made finding a husband a priority, but it never happened for me.

 

When I was 21, I was willing to leave school to move to be with someone I was in a LDR with. My point is, I've always put finding a suitable mate first, and it's never worked out. Nothing has ever been more important to me that having a family. I would give up my education and my career in a second to have a family.

 

Where is verhrzn, btw? I've missed her.

[Els]

If she's still single because of one of Mme. Chaucer reasons, "completing her education? Traveling the world and having adventures," then she screwed up and has her priorities out of order. It's like a kid who got accepted to an NBA team but he declines it, then 10 years later he decides to accept but is having trouble finding a team.

 

Come now, that would be like someone saying that you 'screwed up and had your priorities out of order' when you decided to work temp jobs and only start college at 30. Life is complicated, people have reasons for doing things, sometimes the only way to grow is to make mistakes or garner new experiences, sometimes you have to sacrifice something in order to get them. Those women and their decisions to wait to complete their education/travel are no less entitled to their dating woes, than you are due to your life/career decisions.

[somedude81]

I don't make threads like these, and I'm infamous on here for not being able to find a man.

You have stated several times that you live in a location where their are few single men above 30. I don't know if you live in a small college town or something, but you should probably move to an area that is better.

 

You've also recently stated that you don't even acknowledge men 5'7 or shorter, so that's another thing.

 

Have you ever thought that the women who make threads like the ones above do so because they had so few options they were forced to settle for less than they deserved?

Not once. There is no way that the young women making those threads have any shortage of options. They are drawn to the bad boys like moths to the flame. And so they deserved to get burned.

 

 

The hard part is defining 'relationship', just like with the disparities we're seeing here in this thread. For some people, FWB is a relationship. I've actually seen it listed as such in threads, mainly by young women. So, in that sense, perhaps they make the OP's point, as well as mine. Superficially, it's far easier for any one woman to solicit or accept a casual sexual 'relationship' from/with a man. She merely needs to 'pick one'. I see those thread on LS all the time, where a woman has a number of men pursuing her sexually and she picks a 'hot one' for sex this weekend because she's horny. I've seen this dynamic personally in real life as well, mainly amongst my exW's female friends. I watched exactly how they 'did it', many times in person. Beyond that kind of dynamic, similar to receiving unsolicited attention, the playing field levels out markedly IME, as far as gender-specific 'easier' goes. It all depends what one is focusing on when using the '2x easier' description. We each focus differently.

If a woman considers a FWB to be a relationship, then she should accept a man only wanting her for sex.

 

If a woman doesn't think of herself as anything more than a sex object, why should any man think of her differently?

[zengirl]

If it wasn't clear already, I have little sympathy for women who are older and having trouble finding a man.

 

If she's still single because of one of Mme. Chaucer reasons, "completing her education? Traveling the world and having adventures," then she screwed up and has her priorities out of order. It's like a kid who got accepted to an NBA team but he declines it, then 10 years later he decides to accept but is having trouble finding a team.

 

I think YOUR priorities are out of whack, honestly. Every person should be a whole and complete adult who knows himself/herself inside and out before agreeing to a major commitment. That generally takes some age.

 

BTW, can you name six women under 30 on this board who are having trouble finding me? I'll start you off

 

1. verhrzn (and note that she's had about five boyfriends so far)

 

Goes to the definition of success, I suppose, and also how you define a 'relationship'.

 

I won't list the women and my analysis of their lack of success because I would hate to negatively drag anyone into this thread like that. Iris already has posted her experience in here, though. I believe there are a few other women in here who are "Single and looking" and finding it a bit tough out there.

 

To me, the definition of success is your ability to get what YOU want out of a situation and what is productive and correlates with YOUR beliefs and self-concept. (Success, therefore, can be changed by changing your beliefs as well as your results.)

 

I think you also confuse the situations. Many women who appear to be in dead-end Rs or FWB situations where nothing will ever come of it are basically the female equivalent of your situation of sitting around, pining for someone who will never want you or be compatible with you. It's the same lack of success and the same phenomenon, with a different coat of paint. I think it's suitably hard (completely doable, but it takes effort and skill and persistence and luck and so forth) for everyone to go out there and really get fulfillment in life - out of relationships, or anything else.

 

You could've had a R too, if you had suitably lowered your standards and/or prioritized it by creating active growth. And I know many women who went years and years without dating at all or getting more than a FWB situation or a 'bad boyfriend' situation, with nary a good, compatible, attractive guy around.

[somedude81]

Come now, that would be like someone saying that you 'screwed up and had your priorities out of order' when you decided to work temp jobs and only start college at 30. Life is complicated, people have reasons for doing things, sometimes the only way to grow is to make mistakes or garner new experiences, sometimes you have to sacrifice something in order to get them. Those women and their decisions to wait to complete their education/travel are no less entitled to their dating woes, than you are due to your life/career decisions.

Getting way off-topic.

 

I have always struggled in school. Elementary, Jr. High, High school, I was a D average student. It took me five years to get out of Jr. College, which shold have been done in two. I started Jr. college the same year I graduated HS. In that time I may have taken one or two semesters off to work because I was sick of school. I started my current university at 28 and September will be my third year there. So no, it's not like I graduated high school, and waited 10 years to start college.

 

With that thought in mind, those women who chose to focus on their education, travel and just play around, that was their opportunity cost.

 

BTW, wanting to finish college first before a girl gets married, isn't even an excuse for somebody who finds themselves single and never been married at 30. Most people, unless they really suck at school, graduate college at 23 or younger. Wanting to focus on her career is a very poor choice because she can end up working till she's in her mid 60's while her market value as a woman will hardly last that long.

[dasein]

This^. I wish more men could comprehend this. For many women, being sexually desired but not desired for a relationship is considered absolute failure.

 

I'd rather a man not desire me sexually and leave me alone done rather than try to sleep with me with no intentions of commitment.

 

Many people think they are failures because a leprechaun riding on a magical unicorn's back has not brought them a pot of gold. Those people are deluded, just as people who equate dating "success" necessarily to "overall relationship fulfillment, bliss and happiness" for "discussion" purposes or whatever are equally deluded (or more likely in thread case, just being purposefully disingenuous in the usual, expected way).

 

These threads all spin out to the same dumb place on the female side, the question is, is -dating- easier (as in... getting... an... acceptable... date), is getting -sex- easier (as in... getting... sex... from... a... reasonably attractive person), not "is having all my earthly wishes and laundry list in a partner satisfied?"

 

Yet the same inane unlogic is trotted out time after time in these threads. There are very simple objective measures of dating "success." 1. Can you secure a date, or a series of dates with a dating partner(s) with at least marginal potential whom you find attractive in the least? 2. Can you obtain sex with partner(s) with at least marginal potential or attractiveness? Not 3. Can you have complete assurance of having all your worldly life-desires met as part of the dating and sex process every time you go out on a date? 1 and 2 are indicia of "dating success." 3. is a different question entirely, a whole different level that most average men don't even approach, but the fact that female posters always resort to it is quite telling as to the "who has it easier?" question.

 

Average men don't even get to the "can I get the super duper perfect prancing pony dating experience I so richly deserve?" and stop instead at "can I get... a date... at all?" Transparent some of the replies here.

[fortyninethousand322]

Oh, I forgot that women also make a lot of FWB threads and she's fallen for the guy and wondering if he's going to fall for her.

 

The answer is most likely, no. Don't have sex with somebody you're not in a relationship with.

 

I kind of agree with this. There's a certain type of guy who is only interested in sex. This guy usually gets lots of chances with women, often the same women, even after he burns them pretty badly.

 

These women then go and complain that this is happening and insist that they want some variation of a "nice" or "good" or "gentlemanly" guy. And that they've learned not to go after the bad guy. I seriously doubt their veracity on that.

 

If you've been dating "bad" guys (however you want to define that) seriously do everyone a favor and keep dating those types. You'll be better off for it and so will the "gentlemanly" types you insist you want.

[iris219]

Many people think they are failures because a leprechaun riding on a magical unicorn's back has not brought them a pot of gold. Those people are deluded, just as people who equate dating "success" necessarily to "overall relationship fulfillment, bliss and happiness" for "discussion" purposes or whatever are equally deluded (or more likely in thread case, just being purposefully disingenuous in the usual, expected way).

 

These threads all spin out to the same dumb place on the female side, the question is, is -dating- easier (as in... getting... an... acceptable... date), is getting -sex- easier (as in... getting... sex... from... a... reasonably attractive person), not "is having all my earthly wishes and laundry list in a partner satisfied?"

 

Yet the same inane unlogic is trotted out time after time in these threads. There are very simple objective measures of dating "success." 1. Can you secure a date, or a series of dates with a dating partner(s) with at least marginal potential whom you find attractive in the least? 2. Can you obtain sex with partner(s) with at least marginal potential or attractiveness? Not 3. Can you have complete assurance of having all your worldly life-desires met as part of the dating and sex process every time you go out on a date? 1 and 2 are indicia of "dating success." 3. is a different question entirely, a whole different level that most average men don't even approach, but the fact that female posters always resort to it is quite telling as to the "who has it easier?" question.

 

Average men don't even get to the "can I get the super duper perfect prancing pony dating experience I so richly deserve?" and stop instead at "can I get... a date... at all?" Transparent some of the replies here.

 

You're still defining "success" differently than most women. Your criteria (#1 and #2) mean little to me, and does not equate success for me or for a lot of women.

 

If that's your definition, fine, but you can't expect everyone to have the same definition.

 

FWIW, I'm not even succeeding by your definition.

[Els]

Getting way off-topic.

 

I have always struggled in school. Elementary, Jr. High, High school, I was a D average student. It took me five years to get out of Jr. College, which shold have been done in two. I started Jr. college the same year I graduated HS. In that time I may have taken one or two semesters off to work because I was sick of school. I started my current university at 28 and September will be my third year there. So no, it's not like I graduated high school, and waited 10 years to start college.

 

Well, yes, that's what I mean. There are reasons for everything. We all need to choose the path that works for us in life, and that may or may not be the best path for 'getting a relationship ASAP'. Perhaps those women are in careers in which the first 5 years are hell in a handbasket and they intend to settle down with families later on when they have achieved a comfortable and less taxing position. Perhaps they actually had a husband or bf but he left her after a long time together. Perhaps they too failed college and graduated from it at 30. My point is, nobody is 'less deserving' of sympathy just because their choices were different from yours.

[dasein]

Your criteria (#1 and #2) mean little to me, and does not equate success for me or for a lot of women.

 

Which as stated, proves rather convincingly that women have it easier in dating than men generally. Average men don't even get to the level of analysis of "ideals" in dating that average women do.

 

Your and ZG's claim is essentially, "for women, in order for dating to be considered "successful," it must meet -other- loftier criteria than merely being able to get acceptable dates regularly."

 

If that is the case, it means that dating is in fact easier for women to such an extent that unlike for men, for average women, "any old marginally acceptable date" just won't do for purposes of estimating "success," there has to be more.

 

Proves OP's contention in spades.

[TheWatcher]

Average men don't even get to the "can I get the super duper perfect prancing pony dating experience I so richly deserve?" and stop instead at "can I get... a date... at all?"

 

Perfectly and succinctly put Dasein.Absolutely,100 % on point.Nothing

really needs to be said beyond that.Beautifully put;and so true for

many,many men.

[Mme. Chaucer]

So, one the one hand, we have a man who approaches women, accepts rejections and acceptances, and assesses women's approaches

 

On the other, we have a woman who assesses men's approaches and chooses amongst those who approach, in addition to having the freedom to ask out any man she chooses. She may or may not avail herself of that freedom. It's her choice. If she does, she then becomes one of the approaches the man assesses.

 

I agree that from this perspective, women certainly do have it "easier." In the big picture, though, I really believe that the pitfalls end up pretty even except for the gorgeous and socially gifted few.

 

A woman who is never, or rarely "chosen" feels about in the same boat as the guy who can't bring himself to ask out 10 women in the hopes that maybe one will accept.

 

Plus, as others have said, the concept of "successful" dating is generally different for men and women. If a man asks a girl out and has a one night stand with her but is not interested in seeing her again, there is a good chance he would deem that a "success" and the girl would deem the same experience a "failure." Depending on the individuals, of course.

[Anela]

If it wasn't clear already, I have little sympathy for women who are older and having trouble finding a man.

 

If she's still single because of one of Mme. Chaucer reasons, "completing her education? Traveling the world and having adventures," then she screwed up and has her priorities out of order. It's like a kid who got accepted to an NBA team but he declines it, then 10 years later he decides to accept but is having trouble finding a team.

 

Oh, please.

 

Elswyth said it better than I could, and this talk of "market value"? How romantic. here I was hoping to find someone compatible with me - a strong mutual attraction, with someone who sees me and likes/loves me - but according to you, I should have grabbed the first one that would take me, and dragged him down the aisle.

 

Shame on me for trying to sort myself out, and then working on finding myself a healthy relationship (as I grew healthier). I wonder what my market value was then; I happen to think I'm still worth a few bob, thank you very much.

[Mme. Chaucer]

and in come the troops!

 

From earlier in this thread:

 

 

 

I think this is best post in this thread & not a single woman or man even commented on it.

Why?

 

 

 

Because we can recognize irony and have no need to comment on it???

[PJKino]

Average men don't even get to the "can I get the super duper perfect prancing pony dating experience I so richly deserve?" and stop instead at "can I get... a date... at all?" Transparent some of the replies here.

 

Amen! going 32 years without a date or any interest from women kills the soul sorry if your dating problem is you didnt find your knight in shining armor you were promised as a child but i dont have much sympathy for gronwups who still have childhood fantasies

 

Or as i see hanging out with my buddy in a summer house me and my friends got ,he has all these women line up every weekend to have sex with him and try to force him into a relatinship when hes not that attracted to them and wants nothing to do with them yet they continously go after him because hes good looking and has money yet they dont realize they were a pumped and dumped..

 

Meanwhile a guy like me would treat them with care and respect yet they continue to chase men like my friend who is out of their league then they call Men pigs and blame all Men for their own ignorance..

 

Its so disheartening and makes me realize im gonna be alone

Edited July 16, 2012 by PJKino

[fortyninethousand322]

Amen! going 32 years without a date or any interest from women kills the soul sorry if your dating problem is you didnt find your knight in shining armor you were promised as a child but i dont have much sympathy for gronwups who still have childhood fantasies

 

Or as i see hanging out with my buddy in a summer house me and my friends got ,he has all these women line up every weekend to have sex with him and try to force him into a relatinship when hes not that attracted to them and wants nothing to do with them yet they continously go after him because hes good looking and has money yet they dont realize they were a pumped and dumped..

 

Meanwhile a guy like me would treat them with care and respect yet they continue to chase men like my friend who is out of their league then they call Men pigs and blame all Men for their own ignorance..

 

Its so disheartening and makes me realize im gonna be alone

 

I'm convinced that in order for most women to consider you a "real man" you have to do your share of "pumping and dumping". If you don't you lose attractiveness in their eyes.

[zengirl]

Which as stated, proves rather convincingly that women have it easier in dating than men generally. Average men don't even get to the level of analysis of "ideals" in dating that average women do.

 

I don't think viewing success as a committed R that works and positively reinforces self-concept is really all that idyllic.

 

Your and ZG's claim is essentially, "for women, in order for dating to be considered "successful," it must meet -other- loftier criteria than merely being able to get acceptable dates regularly."

 

Right, women are socialized to believe the purpose of dating is to find and cultivate committed Rs, leading to marriage (the last bit is changing slightly, as people in general become less marriage-minded).

 

I do believe some men are socialized to believe this as well, but others are socialized to believe being sought-after and getting dates/sex regularly from multiple women is an even 'higher' level of success. Every once and awhile these days in a post-Sex and the City world, you'll find a woman who defines success that way, but rarely. I would say getting regular dates and sex with multiple women is actually harder for most men then achieving a successful committed R, whereas it's vice versa for women, though some people struggle with neither or both.

 

If that is the case, it means that dating is in fact easier for women to such an extent that unlike for men, for average women, "any old marginally acceptable date" just won't do for purposes of estimating "success," there has to be more.

 

Most men would not consider a date - any date, with any person - success in dating either.

[Mme. Chaucer]

With that thought in mind, those women who chose to focus on their education, travel and just play around, that was their opportunity cost.

 

BTW, wanting to finish college first before a girl gets married, isn't even an excuse for somebody who finds themselves single and never been married at 30.

 

That's just straight backwards and ignorant! Where do you live?! Evidently no place I have ever visited, unless it's Dead Badger Holler, WV.

 

Nobody needs an "EXCUSE" to not have been married by the age of 30. And anyone who is actively dating has the same right to complain about their mishaps, whether they are 15, 20, 30, or 50.

 

"Playing around" instead of getting married young deserves a penalty? No, it doesn't. It's a choice that carries with it a whole avalanche of consequences, effects and possible benefits - just like getting married young does.

 

A person who knows themselves well and who has traveled a good path of life might not have an "easy" time finding their mate, but I bet their chances of a successful union once they find one are much greater than a person who is immature and callow but who fears "lost opportunity" so marries when they don't have the qualities necessary for that endeavor.

 

And worrying about your "market value" is sick. It's also sick that YOU seem to think that a woman should do so, but evidently you shouldn't. What's good for the goose …

[Mme. Chaucer]

I

 

BTW, can you name six women under 30 on this board who are having trouble finding me? I'll start you off

 

1. verhrzn (and note that she's had about five boyfriends so far)

 

But you need to acknowledge that YOUR idea of a relationship has no pertinence to the way actual relationships function.

 

The people in them have to like each other. A LOT. Or they fail.

[carhill]

The topic was about dating being 2X more easier (pardon my grammar), not about the 'success' aspects of dating. Simple numbers. Who goes on on more dates and with more individuals?

 

This is the telling quote, and something I've seen a lot of in real life:

 

Few hours after she went single, she told us that 3 guys had asked her out and she was laughing at it.

 

That's 'easier', the definition. Her laughing was just a commentary on it.