betterdeal Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 The solution for men is to compete fiercely, which exacerbates the problem. I'll use my sinking ship analogy where there's only enough lifeboat seats for 90% of the men. The ship has sunk, and the remaining guys are swimming in cold water, desperately trying to get onto the lifeboats. A guy has secured a seat, thinking he's safe, but the girl throws him overboard. Immediately, 3 guys swim up to her, pleading for mercy. Now she's thinking, well look at all the options I have - I can be picky! I don't like that guy, he didn't pay for my dinner. That one has a receding hairline. The other waited too long to call me back. Forget it, with all these guys swimming around, I can just wait for my prince charming. How else do you propose we distribute the wenches? Rationing? 1
betterdeal Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I disagree, but I'm going to deprive someone of a date tonight by going on one myself. Good for you! So that's one man and one woman who have dates. That tips the balance in favour of, erm... Now, the rest of you. The ones who disagree with oaks' disagreement. What are you going to do? Natter on the internet for a bit; see if a few more hours of that will change things? 1
betterdeal Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 i can want a date but that doesn't mean i'm going to have a date. i can want that nice ferrari too. So that's a not-do-anything.
phineas Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I agree with your first two points, and suggest that my math works just fine! Try doing the paper exercise I suggested, and assign those properties to some of the men-dots - let some of the men-dots have no dates, some of the men-dots only have 1 date and some of the men-dots have many many dates. It doesn't matter how you distribute the dates on the woman-dot side of the paper... you'll still get the result that the men and women date the same amount! Clearly there's some variation among the men (and among the women) in a real sample, which you can reflect in the paper exercise, but that isn't a pointer towards men having it easier or harder than women... just an observation that some men have it harder than some other men (and some women have it harder than some other women) but that isn't really the topic of the thread. I'll say it again: men and women date the same amount. What I'm not considering is whether dateless women are happier being single vs dateless men being unhappier being single (and I'm not even saying that's true, but it's a possibility, although it's clearly not universally true). You got me onto "dating" again. Which isn't what the op is talking about. The OP clearly stated women have it easier. They have more options. Explain to me how having more of the opposite sex interested in dating you does not make it easier. On your piece of paper exercise, if you you put a pink dot for a woman & a blue dot for a man who wants to date her (they can choose more than one woman) then reversed it you'd have one piece of paper with almost every pink dot surrounded by blues. And the other piece you'd have a lot of lonely blue dots clustered together in the corner & a handful of blue dots damn near blotted out by pink. Who has it easier? The one's surrounded by dots of the opposite color.
Kamille Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 that includes the over 50. But fact remains, Maxnoob's post is wrong. There aren't more men than women, regardless of the age. I suspect the US stats must be very similar to the Canadian ones, which I know better. Like I said, in Canada, from the age of 16 onwards, there are more women than men. The leading explanation for this discrepancy is a higher mortality rate amongst men.
phineas Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 And you'll never convince me that what I see with my own eyes isn't real without some kind of proof or new information beyond "I see this, so it's true." Your measure of "easy" just doesn't include many of the tribulations and difficulties young women face in dating. That would be a different topic. I'm not actually sure if it's true, either. I'm not sure if any of this is a 'good' debate or what it serves to accomplish. Some men have it hard. Some women have it hard. Some of both don't. If anyone wants any actual empathy on the difficulties of their situation, pretending that others don't have difficulties or that their difficulties are less important is hardly the way to get it. I'm 40yrs old. I'm not trying to accomplish anything but kill time while I pack for vacation. Men in their 20's need to stop giving undo attention to women who don't want to date them. PERIOD. Good looking dudes need to stop one-night-standing less than attractive women because it makes them think if they got a guy like that once they can do it again so they ignore anyone who isn't HOT. I personally think every guy who can't get a woman needs to work on his career, lift and wait until his 30's when all the women done having fun want to settle down. Then have fun with them. LOL!
zengirl Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 You got me onto "dating" again. Which isn't what the op is talking about. Then why does it state 'dating' in the title? Men in their 20's need to stop giving undo attention to women who don't want to date them. PERIOD. I would say EVERYONE needs to stop giving undo (romantic) attention to people who don't want to date them, and I understand you phrase it that way because it's a common mistake men in their 20s make. I just wouldn't assume EVERY woman in their age range is getting that attention (many women who want attention don't get it) OR that it's always nice and rosy to get unwanted attention. Good looking dudes need to stop one-night-standing less than attractive women because it makes them think if they got a guy like that once they can do it again so they ignore anyone who isn't HOT. Good luck with that one. I don't honestly know any women like that (I'm sure they exist, but I find it hard to believe that's the majority). Most women I know are either single and looking for character + looks, not just HOT, or coupled.
phineas Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 But fact remains, Maxnoob's post is wrong. There aren't more men than women, regardless of the age. I suspect the US stats must be very similar to the Canadian ones, which I know better. Like I said, in Canada, from the age of 16 onwards, there are more women than men. The leading explanation for this discrepancy is a higher mortality rate amongst men. Oh, so we aren't doing the stay on topic thing anymore? Because OP who is teens/early 20's clearly is wrong because there are plenty of perfectly fine senior citizens he could date? :lmao:
Kamille Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Oh, so we aren't doing the stay on topic thing anymore? Because OP who is teens/early 20's clearly is wrong because there are plenty of perfectly fine senior citizens he could date? :lmao: How very strange that you did not accuse MaxNoob of being off-topic when he first brought up his made-up statistics. I notice you also conveniently ignore the fact that there are slightly more women than me in the early 20s. Granted, the difference is likely negligible and rendered useless by the fact that older men hit on 20 year olds. (Now, let's see how you twist this around to make it women's fault). Have fun on your vacation. Remember, your mission is to not sleep with average women so as to not over-inflate their egos, especially the 20-39 year old ones! Leave them for the young guys I say! Edited July 18, 2012 by Kamille
iris219 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Good looking dudes need to stop one-night-standing less than attractive women because it makes them think if they got a guy like that once they can do it again so they ignore anyone who isn't HOT. LOL! I had never heard of, experienced, or witnessed this phenomenon until I read about it on LS. I've also never meet women, even very attractive ones, who will only date "hot" guys.
MaxNoob Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Nope. Not according to this chart: U.S. Population by Sex and Age, Census 2000 — Infoplease.com They're not ventilated by age, but according to this, there are 151,781,326 males in the US in 2010 and 156,964,212 females. That's a little over 5 million more women. The lads will have to stay away from demographic analysis if they want to keep defending their point. You missed the part where I said "the gender ratio of young people." In the US, it's 105.1 male / female up to the age of 24.
Kamille Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 You missed the part where I said "the gender ratio of young people." In the US, it's 105.1 male / female up to the age of 24. Please link to a reliable source.
MaxNoob Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Please link to a reliable source. Article - Gender in the United States
phineas Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Then why does it state 'dating' in the title? What is dating to you? to me it's being socially active with the opposite sex. Going on dates. If I see one woman multiple times or 10 women once I still consider myself dating. I'm either purposefully staying single or i'm looking for someone & I consider that dating. I think my definition gels with what op stated in his first post. I would say EVERYONE needs to stop giving undo (romantic) attention to people who don't want to date them, and I understand you phrase it that way because it's a common mistake men in their 20s make. I just wouldn't assume EVERY woman in their age range is getting that attention (many women who want attention don't get it) OR that it's always nice and rosy to get unwanted attention. Well there is a difference between unwanted attention & attention whoring and most times attention whoring turns into unwanted attention when the woman leads the guy on too far. Good luck with that one. I don't honestly know any women like that (I'm sure they exist, but I find it hard to believe that's the majority). Most women I know are either single and looking for character + looks, not just HOT, or coupled. Mid 20's on-word sure. But first few yrs of college it's the hook up generation. Not everyone is doing it, just everyone who goes out to the big clubs or bars. From what I see, for hook ups looks is all it takes, Their rolling the dice to see if he sticks around after & then the character part comes in.
Kamille Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Article - Gender in the United States Thank you! I was wrong. Up until age 34, it seems like there are more men than women in the USA. I wonder why this number would be different from Canada. (Where the disparity in favor of more women really starts at age 16). ETA: Looks like guys should move to Rhode Island and women to Alaska! Edited July 18, 2012 by Kamille
sweetjasmine Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Thank you! I was wrong. Up until age 34, it seems like there are more men than women in the USA. I wonder why this number would be different from Canada. (Where the disparity in favor of more women really starts at age 16). ETA: Looks like guys should move to Rhode Island and women to Alaska! I can't read the link from my device - does it account for men who are incarcerated? The US has the highest per capita rate in the developed world. You'd also have to tease out the number of people who are heterosexual and single and looking.
Kamille Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I can't read the link from my device - does it account for men who are incarcerated? The US has the highest per capita rate in the developed world. You'd also have to tease out the number of people who are heterosexual and single and looking. No it doesn't. And upon further reading, it turns out that the male discrepancy tends to be concentrated in a few states (mainly in the West) and that the gender ratio in most major cities tend to be somewhat on par (slightly more women in NY and LA for instance). I still think it's curious that there are more men than women in the younger generations. The study says more boys than girls are born every year. Why would this be the case in the US but not in Canada? Edited July 18, 2012 by Kamille
zengirl Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 What is dating to you? to me it's being socially active with the opposite sex. Well, I'm socially active with my male friends, and I'm married, so that's definitely not dating to me! To me, dating is a process of getting to know someone that potentially leads to a R or marriage. I understand that to others it can be different things, such as 'dating around', but just spending time and socializing with the opposite sex does not = dating. But my question of 'then why does it say dating in the title?' was in direct reference to you saying this thread was NOT about dating. So, I'm confused as to where this chain of thought is going, phineas. Going on dates. If I see one woman multiple times or 10 women once I still consider myself dating. I'm either purposefully staying single or i'm looking for someone & I consider that dating. We would agree that this could be one definition of dating, but again. . . you just said the thread wasn't about dating, so I'm literally confused on what your meaning was there then. Well there is a difference between unwanted attention & attention whoring and most times attention whoring turns into unwanted attention when the woman leads the guy on too far. I'm talking about purely unwanted, unsolicited attention. I still get it all the time: cold calls. Sometimes guys hang around after rejected, but mostly they go on their merry way. I don't blame them. I don't get upset with them. They're just doing what they gotta do. But the continual fending off of unwanted attention IS work. And the feeling of getting no attention - which plenty of girls go through - is no good either for the women who NEVER get attention. I see this all the time out: for every girl that gets attention, there seems to be at least one girl that doesn't. A few girls often get the majority of attention in the place! So, I'm just saying while guys who struggle have my empathy, it's not like every part of the dating process is a picnic for most girls. The girls who LIKE attention, any kind of attention, and GET that attention may love it - like that girl who laughed that 3 guys asked her out. But I don't know many girls like that. Most unhappily single girls I know feel frustrated and saddened by unwanted attention OR no attention from guys. But first few yrs of college it's the hook up generation. Can't comment on that really. I never experienced that phenomenon or dated that way. I had my HS sweetheart - we never even slept together, but almost got married. Then, I had some time grieving and a boyfriend who I just fell into a R with because of common interests and some halfway decent attraction. But I was still grieving. By the time I woke up, it was adult dating. Most of the girls I know (who work for me) who are in college don't seem like the hookup type though. A couple are very religious - I suspect they may even be virgins. I know a lot of women my age who never had sex in college and those that did, usually with boyfriends. I don't know too many girls (I know a few) who slept around, and the ones who did were the party girls. But not every college girl is a party girl. Not everyone is doing it, just everyone who goes out to the big clubs or bars. Oh, well, that was never my scene or my crowd. I go to the occasional bar, but the same type of bar over and over again, and not before I was old enough to drink legally. Hangout type crowds with microbrews and local music and people who like to talk about nerdy stuff and so forth. I don't go into the party scene. I suspect ladies who are into the party scene, and attractive enough to stand out and enjoy that scene, do have it fairly easy, if they want to party. But that's a small subset of ladies. Often attractive, sorority girl types. Why would nerdy, awkward guys compare themselves to those kind of girls?
betterdeal Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Thank you! I was wrong. Up until age 34, it seems like there are more men than women in the USA. I wonder why this number would be different from Canada. (Where the disparity in favor of more women really starts at age 16). ETA: Looks like guys should move to Rhode Island and women to Alaska! How many are in prison? 1
Negative Nancy Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I would say EVERYONE needs to stop giving undo (romantic) attention It's undue. 1
oaks Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 How else do you propose we distribute the wenches? Rationing? Too late. The wenches are out on dates while we're here "debating".
iris219 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Too late. The wenches are out on dates while we're here "debating". According to some of the logic here, they're all on dates with same hot guy.
oaks Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 You got me onto "dating" again. Which isn't what the op is talking about. The OP clearly stated women have it easier. They have more options. Explain to me how having more of the opposite sex interested in dating you does not make it easier. On your piece of paper exercise, if you you put a pink dot for a woman & a blue dot for a man who wants to date her (they can choose more than one woman) then reversed it you'd have one piece of paper with almost every pink dot surrounded by blues. And the other piece you'd have a lot of lonely blue dots clustered together in the corner & a handful of blue dots damn near blotted out by pink. Who has it easier? The one's surrounded by dots of the opposite color. The thing with measuring "options" is that I'm not sure that we've defined what they are. For a fair comparison between sexes it has to be something equitable between the sexes - in particular I note that just because a man wants to date a specific woman that doesn't imply any potential for a date if she thinks he isn't attractive. You can call that an "option" for her, but it isn't useful in getting a date for her or him if there isn't some mutual attraction. That's why I considered "dates" - because they are tangible and we all know what they are. Perhaps we could measure mutual attraction (but it's the same as the dating model). Or maybe these selfish girls should just date any horndog who drools in their direction? I agree with your final point in a way - the individuals who get lots of attention can choose, and there might even be someone in the group that they like - but that's an individual behaviour (of the popular ones) and not indicative of the entire male population having it harder. There are popular men and women.
somedude81 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 According to some of the logic here, they're all on dates with same hot guy. No, but that guy probably goes on a date with more than one girl a week. If he's going out on dates at all and not just having sex with them.
oaks Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 According to some of the logic here, they're all on dates with same hot guy. He's a busy guy! But wait! I've been on a date tonight. I must be that guy! No wonder I'm tired. So many wenches, so little time. 5
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