threebyfate Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 That list is messed up. I'm far from selfish. I have no problem spending money on those who matter to me. A woman who hasn't committed to me is not one of those people. So you are wrong there. It doesn't matter if i'm dating 1 woman or 20. I'm not going to drop dinner & drinks type of money on a women that isn't my GF.If you're unwilling to drop dinner and drinks on a woman who isn't your g/f, why would you ask her out to dinner and drinks? Why not ask her out for coffee, as mentioned by fishtaco? Please tell me how your personal opinion of your own generosity is the baseline for determining universal "cheapness" of all men on an internet forum.It's called compatibility of how money is viewed. For some, it's viewed as far more important than the underlying person.
fishtaco Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Notice how I mentioned the first date only? I agree if you're paying for all dates which would be inequitable. My bad. Didn't realize you were talking about first date only. Given the topic is about holding out, I assumed it's about more than just one date. Uncertain what you mean by transparency. Transparency as in motive. As a consideration, why not see if she's willing to pay for the second date and if not, then more likely, she's probably a bit too old fashioned for you. Not going to lie to you. This gets my back up but then, I don't put out on first dates. Putting out only happens if the guy comes across as genuinely caring. There needs to be a comfort level and trust between, prior to leaping. Not relevant anymore. You were talking about first date only. I was talking about a series of dates until something major happens. You already hold out. In emotional investment. What emotional investment, since you were talking about first date? If we were talking about the first series of dates, if I didn't hold out I'd be dropped like a clingy desperate psycho. That's not holding out when it's already a dating strategy approved even by women. While the usage of bet kind of throws me off a bit, the coffee date thing is reasonable particularly if you date cold and a lot. If it's someone you've known for awhile, coffee sounds like a friend thing to do. Yeah, pretty typical that women don't like my choice of words. It's not adorned with flowers. But generally speaking, a coffee date is a very neutral and safe first date, for both parties. I'm surprised you don't approve. It's one of the few things that men and women actually agree on.
yongyong Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 There are certain things you can't do as a man. It's because of American Women's Ego. eg: You can't flake out on a date and expect her to set it up again. You can't just give her the number and expect her to call you. When she wants to be banged, you better f-ck her. I learned a big lesson by turning down this hot blonde one night. Unless you have a valid reason (you banged another girl before so you can't get it up) , I wouldn't bluff but just go with the flow.
phineas Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 If you're unwilling to drop dinner and drinks on a woman who isn't your g/f, why would you ask her out to dinner and drinks? Why not ask her out for coffee, as mentioned by fishtaco? It's called compatibility of how money is viewed. For some, it's viewed as far more important than the underlying person. I don't ask a woman out to dinner & drinks for a first date or 2nd or 3rd. It isn't because I can't afford it, it's because when it comes to online dating I very rarely hear from the woman again. I ask them to things that won't cost me more than $20 usually. THEY are the one's who want me to take them to dinner for a first date. How many times does someone have to post this? Let me post it again. THERE ARE A LOT OF WOMEN OUT THERE WHO EXPECT A MAN TO TAKE THEM FOR DINNER & DRINKS FROM DATE ONE. It's in their online profile for "first date". It's the first thing out of their lips when you call them to set up a first date. Or if your meet them out & chat with them they start hinting at the fact they have always wanted to go to so & so exclusive restaurant & all you gotta do is be a chump & take her for dinner to get a date. Then she drops you. I fell for that when I was in my late 20's once. Can you say dumb-ass? OP has gone to the extreme. The other side of the coin is women who expect men to spend money on them just because their a woman. I weed them out by doing in expensive things that take some money but not a lot.
seachangeoflove Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 zengirl, I think we run in very different social circles, which probably contributed greatly to a lot of the differences in our perception of the dating world. I think I must live on a different planet then most LS posters..... I can't think of a single one of my female friends who would wait past date #5 to have sex....In fact I am insulted if a man doesn't try by date #3. I assume I've been friendzoned, and usually that IS what it means!! lol And I've had plenty of times I've thought "he never called me back...I guess he wasn't into me after all....Oh well, at least the sex was good!" not "OMG HE USED ME FOR SEX WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!" I mean seriously.....
fortyninethousand322 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I think I must live on a different planet then most LS posters..... I can't think of a single one of my female friends who would wait past date #5 to have sex....In fact I am insulted if a man doesn't try by date #3. I assume I've been friendzoned, and usually that IS what it means!! lol And I've had plenty of times I've thought "he never called me back...I guess he wasn't into me after all....Oh well, at least the sex was good!" not "OMG HE USED ME FOR SEX WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!" I mean seriously..... What's the rush to have sex though? Isn't date #3 a little soon. Heck, date #5 would probably be too soon for me.
seachangeoflove Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) What's the rush to have sex though? Isn't date #3 a little soon. Heck, date #5 would probably be too soon for me. For me date #3 is often not too soon, but usually it's not until date 5 that we go all the way. Again, depends on how often contact is etc... Also, as a chick who makes a decent amount of cash my time is valuable....sometimes more valuable then money... I DONT WANT to go for dinner and drinks with some dude I just met online...I want the option to bail out after a cup of coffee if possible. I have no problem paying my share but I've found offering to pay leads the guy to believe he's been friend zoned. So when man pays I try to either pick up dessert or pay the tip or stress "next date is on me" etc.....I'm not offended if asked to pay my share or when the man accepts my offer to pay. I take it as rejection however as for that has been my experience. Again, Im on a different planet then most LSers. Id rather pay for my own meal and spend my free time with friends. A free meal that comes with undesired company is hardly a free meal..... I tend to be a very generous person by nature, it's how I was raised. So I tend to be that way with everyone....and if it's not reciprocated than I bail (friend or date) and I don't expect tit for tat reciprocation in dollar amounts..... it's the gesture that matters. Something I think is lost on a lot of people here of both genders Edited July 17, 2012 by seachangeoflove 1
threebyfate Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 What emotional investment, since you were talking about first date? If we were talking about the first series of dates, if I didn't hold out I'd be dropped like a clingy desperate psycho. That's not holding out when it's already a dating strategy approved even by women.I just switched from first date perspective to your further down the road perspective. Switching back to first date perspective, won't disagree one bit. Yeah, pretty typical that women don't like my choice of words. It's not adorned with flowers.Don't need rose petals to adorn words. The nuance of bet = game. But generally speaking, a coffee date is a very neutral and safe first date, for both parties. I'm surprised you don't approve. It's one of the few things that men and women actually agree on.Didn't fully disagree. Just created distinctions whereby caveated the one distinction.
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