FredRobbins Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) I was reading on another forum, and a guy brought up a decent point. Women hold out for sex, and say that if the guy can't go without it, then that's all he wanted. Now, what if men did the same with their wallets? This way, both parties, would play the hold out game until they are sure about one another. Something tells me there is a double-standard should the guy decide to hold out, though. ***mods, let this be its own topic. it's not about deciding who pays for dates. it's about one person holding out against sex vs another person holding out against a potential golddigger. the focus is on finding that woman's priorities - if she really wants to be friends and "take it slow" or if she wants to be financially stimulated before dating takes a sexual turn. in which case, there are several escort services that she should consider joining.*** Edited July 15, 2012 by FredRobbins typo
LoveEachOther Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I actually do this myself. We don't have to pay our same gender peers to get to know them, so why should it be any different for the opposite? I offer them to come over to BBQa that I have, swimming (I like to go swimming with friends), etc. I go to plenty of social gatherings. She either wants to get to know you, or your money. Two people can simply "hang out" as "friends". Then, when they are ready to move forward, they both can begin to "invest". But I'll be damned if I'm going to buy someone's time. She can go to hell with that attitude
carhill Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I think a more equitable solution is being more measured with emotional sensitivity and intimacy and care. Balance. Obviously, if one doesn't want to pay, it's not required. If there's no meeting of the minds, then next.
Author FredRobbins Posted July 15, 2012 Author Posted July 15, 2012 I actually do this myself. We don't have to pay our same gender peers to get to know them, so why should it be any different for the opposite? I offer them to come over to BBQa that I have, swimming (I like to go swimming with friends), etc. I go to plenty of social gatherings. She either wants to get to know you, or your money. Two people can simply "hang out" as "friends". Then, when they are ready to move forward, they both can begin to "invest". But I'll be damned if I'm going to buy someone's time. She can go to hell with that attitude That's how I look at it as well. The tradition of a guy being the provider/baby sitter was only established because women were poor and without opportunity. It seems like, even though they are free and equal, they want to fall back, and hide behind the gender roles when it makes their lives easier. It's like, "A real man ___(lets her have it both ways and does what she commands)___" 2
LoveEachOther Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) That's how I look at it as well. The tradition of a guy being the provider/baby sitter was only established because women were poor and without opportunity. It seems like, even though they are free and equal, they want to fall back, and hide behind the gender roles when it makes their lives easier. It's like, "A real man ___(lets her have it both ways and does what she commands)___" I see what you mean. I assume women are like this until proven otherwise. When they are like that, it's just hump and dump for them. At most, I might have lost $10 to thrust an advanced blow up doll that ended up being cheaper than a blow up doll. You seem to have better grasp on dating mechanics than most guys do. Most are manipulated like hamsters. It's a shame our gender can't think with a clear mind when pussy is on the table. Or maybe it's just desperate guys, that struggle with women, that hand over the wallet without a second thought. Most of the popular, built guys (that I know) who have women throwing their panties at them, don't waste money on'em either. Edited July 15, 2012 by LoveEachOther typo
El Brujo Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I've been playing the "hold out game", but not for money's sake... maybe it's just Father Time's way of separating the thrill-seeker guys (who blow all their money on having a good time) from the guys who save their money for nice things like a home, a car, retirement, and all that stuff party animals say is "foolish". I mean, sure... I could stand to replace my 20-yo truck with something better, and buy a couple nice suits... I don't blow my cash on parties, intoxicants, gambling, or hookers, and if my fairy godmother appeared and gave me a million tax-free dollars, I'd use a few thousand of it to start another business and invest the rest. Honestly, though... I've been holding out for that new business, not to meet the right woman. I'm not rich, but I'm doing better than a lot of people who aren't crooks either.
skyisfalling Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 men who are cheap and frugal dont deserve women. i rest my case. 2
skyisfalling Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 seriously tho, how cheap can you get that you can't even pay for a meal, or coffee date? Men who dont want to fork up a measly $40 DO NOT, let me repeat, DO NOT have any business to date women. PERIOD!!!!!! 1
monkey00 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Most are manipulated like hamsters. It's a shame our gender can't think with a clear mind when pussy is on the table. Or maybe it's just desperate guys, that struggle with women, that hand over the wallet without a second thought. Most of the popular, built guys (that I know) who have women throwing their panties at them, don't waste money on'em either. I think the problem is unless you are built like a model - The only hand you can play in winning the girl is paying for dates and paying her way. Unfortunately traditional gender roles have paved the way for generations and still do. Even with the feminist movements, women still desire to be treated this way. Why do you think below average looking men/average looking women treat their SO better and try harder to maintain the relationship? Because they know they have less options. You are right, manipulation plays a lot in this but that's only because if you're not the guy to do it, there are plenty out there who are willing to do what the girl expects. It's a do or die scenario. Maybe you can stand up for what you believe in and still get action, but your pool of prospects might shrink. It's a thin line to walk. 1
MontanaGirl Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Darn, I was hoping this thread was about men playing the sexual "hold out" game. I've only dated one man who "held out" past when I was clearly ready to have sex with him (a couple weeks longer), but it was amazing. Make a woman experience that frustration and lack of control you guys complain about so much, and she will be putty in your hands. He did it explicitly to boost my interest in him, and oh boy did it work.... I was kind of hoping that trick was catching on with other men. 1
Sanman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 seriously tho, how cheap can you get that you can't even pay for a meal, or coffee date? Women who dont want to fork up a measly $40 DO NOT, let me repeat, DO NOT have any business to date men. PERIOD!!!!!! Fixed that for you.
Bob_Funk Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Darn, I was hoping this thread was about men playing the sexual "hold out" game. I've only dated one man who "held out" past when I was clearly ready to have sex with him (a couple weeks longer), but it was amazing. Make a woman experience that frustration and lack of control you guys complaibout so much, and she will be putty in your hands. He did it explicitly to boost my interest in him, and oh boy did it work.... I was kind of hoping that trick was catching on with other men. So hold out on something girls don't even really want to begin with? That's kind of like telling the parent of an anorexic to deprive their child of chocolate cake. If I followed your advice, I'd be a 25 year old virgin right now. Edited July 16, 2012 by Bob_Funk
fishtaco Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Darn, I was hoping this thread was about men playing the sexual "hold out" game. I've only dated one man who "held out" past when I was clearly ready to have sex with him (a couple weeks longer), but it was amazing. Make a woman experience that frustration and lack of control you guys complain about so much, and she will be putty in your hands. He did it explicitly to boost my interest in him, and oh boy did it work.... I was kind of hoping that trick was catching on with other men. I'll pass. I prefer women that are not into these denial games. Whatever floats your boat.
udolipixie Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 In my experience most guys do hold out and only pay their share and in my opinion guys should hold out financially. Perhaps it'll result in there being less whining out spending money on gals, less entitlement to sex because he paid, less portrayal as gals as gold diggers, and less whining not being able to get a date due to finances and some guys may be forced to onsider it's not their finances rather their looks/personality. I don't think there is a double-standard should a guy decide to hold out as paying your share seems to be quite common. If there is any outcry against a guy holding out it'll likely be similar to the outcry against a gal holding out. It seems to me more like one person holding out against a potential pump/dump vs another person holding out against a potential golddigger. 1
madjac74 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) I was reading on another forum, and a guy brought up a decent point. Women hold out for sex, and say that if the guy can't go without it, then that's all he wanted. Now, what if men did the same with their wallets? This way, both parties, would play the hold out game until they are sure about one another. Something tells me there is a double-standard should the guy decide to hold out, though. I'm not sure what sort of women you are dating but most of the one's I've dated are more than capable of taking care of themselves financially. Besides I dont really think you can compare holding out for sex to holding out for paying for dinner...it speaks volumes of what sort of guy you are. Edited July 16, 2012 by madjac74 typo 3
threebyfate Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 All the men who resent paying should hold out. This will ensure that women who don't like cheap men, can eject after the first date. Go guy go! 2
phineas Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I'm not sure what sort of women you are dating but most of the one's I've dated are more than capable of taking care of themselves financially. Besides I dont really think you can compare holding out for sex to holding out for paying for dinner...it speaks volumes of what sort of guy you are. Every woman I wound up sleeping with didn't "hold out" & didn't expect me to spend money on them either. They slept with me because they liked me.
phineas Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 All the men who resent paying should hold out. This will ensure that women who don't like cheap men, can eject after the first date. Go guy go! You sound as resentful as the op. You two should kiss.
DjinnAgain Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 seriously tho, how cheap can you get that you can't even pay for a meal, or coffee date? Men who dont want to fork up a measly $40 DO NOT, let me repeat, DO NOT have any business to date women. PERIOD!!!!!! Oh dear, I have been very vocal that I expect a guy to pay on the first date if it costs money. I would assume he is not interested, otherwise. I am very used to guys paying. Even in subsequent dates, it hasn't much come up. I mean, I buy the food when I cook for him or something, or if we book the activity separately, but not going out. HOWEVER, frugal guys are the best! I love it if a guy knows that stuff is not important and saving is. I would not penalize a guy at all if every single one of our dates were free dates! To me, the attitude of some of the guys saying they won't pay is the issue, not that they don't want to waste money eating out. Also, the equating money and sex thing is just gross.
phineas Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 You guys should... lets see how far it gets you! I don't pay more than $20 when I go out with women who aren't my GF. It weeds out the women who are just bored vs. truly interested in you. I mean seriously, How much booze does someone need to consume on a 2hr meet? If a woman can't afford the cost of a few drinks because she is meeting all the guys who blow up her inbox than perhaps she needs to learn to be more selective.
El Brujo Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Darn, I was hoping this thread was about men playing the sexual "hold out" game. LOL!!! I can wait until the day after forever. I don't need constant sex fixes in order to survive.
Els Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Anyone should absolutely hold out on anything that they don't feel comfortable doing early on, be it paying or having sex. 4
zengirl Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Anyone should absolutely hold out on anything that they don't feel comfortable doing early on, be it paying or having sex. THIS. I don't really see it as game-playing or 'holding out' even. If a man has a view that he doesn't want to spend money on a woman as he's getting to know her, he should feel free to express that view honestly, though if that's done with bitterness or resentment, I would expect low receptivity, similarly to if a woman was not having sex with a man because of pure distrust or so forth. Generally, I didn't have sex with men early on because I considered sex important and special and only something that fit into a monogamous, committed relationship, with someone I cared about. It wasn't to "get" anything or "play" anyone. It was just my boundary. Similarly, you can have boundaries on anything and see if there are suitably compatible partners out there for you, but I don't think anyone with an insincere boundary (i.e. they're just doing it to 'get' something) will do very well. And someone is perfectly allowed to see your boundary as bull**** or whatever (as long as they don't cross it by force). There are plenty of men (and women, no doubt, though that's irrelevant to me) out there who probably don't view sex as special at all or only for Rs and disagree with my view on it, but those men were never really part of my 'dating pool' and were better weeded out, for both our sakes! So, if your boundary is, say, "I don't want to spend money on anyone unless we're firmly committed, because _____________________", I strongly believe (A) you should not and (B) your success is going to depend more on what fills in that "because" _____________________ than the first part. I think a man who firmly believed that it was inappropriate for one partner to financially commit more than the other, without bitterness or negativity, would probably do just fine. I think a man who wanted women to "prove themselves" would do bad, but so do plenty of women who want men to "prove themselves" by waiting for sex. Of course, be prepared for people to view money and sex differently, as they are very different things to most people, no matter how they feel about each one. Generally, the only thing they have in common is some materialistic people would place 'power' values on both of them - something that I doubt leads to happiness on either issue, personally. 1
MontanaGirl Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 So hold out on something girls don't even really want to begin with? That's kind of like telling the parent of an anorexic to deprive their child of chocolate cake. If I followed your advice, I'd be a 25 year old virgin right now. Jeez, didn't realize women weren't supposed to want sex at all.... That'd be a depressing life, glad I missed that memo. The guy I'm thinking of was when I was only 20. I told him I wasn't "ready for sex yet" when he started getting a bit overly frisky. His response was, "What makes you think I want sex with you yet?" His answer knocked me back from that imaginary "power" position men seem to hate so much and into the position of not knowing I could have him at my whim. A week later I was eager to jump into bed with him. Denial game or not, it worked for me back then and I bet it'd work for other women (especially younger ones).
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