Athena Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I ask this because you seem to be giving yourself the Go Ahead green light to do so. I am wondering if you would give yourself permission to pursue something so dangerous as this Affair, if it was a declared illegal choice, or if the consequences would be you thrown into jail for twenty years, or something equally as disastrous.... the reason why I ask this, is because you ARE choosing something with equally disastrous results; you are simply choosing to turn a blind eye to what will happen to your present life, your family, your future, if you go ahead and choose the drug of your choice -- Infidelity. You still want to pretend you aren't 'really doing anything' that will hurt EVERYONE in your family? And yourself. And the OW. Talk about a dumb choice. No wonder countries have rules and laws about dangerous substances and activities -- some people just want to go ahead and eff up their lives, and take down everyone else with them.
Author Spinning Posted July 15, 2012 Author Posted July 15, 2012 Well it's 430am and I'm awake again. Damn. What the hell kind of a mess have I created? Are any of these from WS? You're so right most of you. This is Russian roulette with more peoples life than just my own. I'm not strong enough yet to just walk away from it. Let me see how it goes today at work. Will now try for another 90 mins sleep before work
Athena Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Well it's 430am and I'm awake again. Damn. What the hell kind of a mess have I created? Are any of these from WS? You're so right most of you. This is Russian roulette with more peoples life than just my own. I'm not strong enough yet to just walk away from it. Let me see how it goes today at work. Will now try for another 90 mins sleep before work It's hard to make the Right Decision when things are soo tempting (sexually, etc) and you feel like no one will ever find out, and things won't go tits-up, but unfortunately, they DO.... you just can't see it now. The only thing you can ask yourself to do is to be patient, and pull back a lil, and not go ahead sexualizing this affair. Take your time to think things through. You have a lot at stake here. What if your wife sues the OW for 'Alienation Of Affection'? What if she reports you both to your company, and they fire you both? I'm not joking -- these things DO happen. Please promise to slow down, and think before you make a choice that you cannot recover from. For your own sake.
2sure Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Making the job move to HK must have been a huge decision and the logistics must have been talked about and gone over endlessly between yourself and your wife prior to your solo move 5 months ago. You have made it sound like the move to HK was always something that was coming down the pike....but always like....since when? Since you got married, since you had kids, since you changed jobs, or since the kids started high school? And you have said that you assume the move would be for 5 years. That's a long time and sure, that could get longer. Or shorter. Was this job change mandatory professionally or financially ? Or was that also a decision you discussed and decided upon together? I ask these things because I'm thinking they were the subjects your wife and you talked about when you were deciding the logistics of your family with the job relocation. Things like...should you go? for how long? should the kids be taken out of high school right now ? Should she stay with the kids until they graduate? Or until you see how it goes? How often would you come home or how often can your wife go there? What if someone gets Sick...what if there is a crisis...LOTS and LOTS of conversations and decisions made by both of you regarding your life, her life, and the lives of your children. Possibly you felt that she and the kids should join you immediately no matter what. Was that a problem? Thing is...you left out a major piece of information that your wife certainly should have had while she was making life altering decisions for herself and her family. You left out that part of the reason you took the job was because of your interest in OW. Oh, but sharing that would have meant some possible changes for YOU. 3
Jonah Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Aren't we all ? OK where to start? Betcha don't leave your wife... That's where my money is! Betcha this little chicky dumps you after a while! That will sting! You will be sooo jilted! Your ass will be a dragging if you get caught. You will learn just how much you actually do care about your wife when you see the hurt in her eyes... and there won't be a damn thing you can do about it. No explanation will help - it would just make it worse. But it will be exciting! Double life! Work out and stay away from the booze dude... you will need all of your senses about you. Hey, check out how you feel after her after about the 5th time you had sex with her. Like right after the sex... My bet is that you will be "oh yeah that was great! ...as you are thinking about your wife and looking for the door... yet in a few days you will be ready for more! Use a "throw down" email account. Never use your cell phone. Google voice is a great tool but watch out for the history. Write down nothing. Cash only, don't use your credit card. And have a pocket full of lies that will fly on a moments notice. Or: The correct thing to do would be to end the affair now (don't tell on yourself) or get divorced first. Anything less would be cowardly. "May you have an exciting life." -ancient Chinese curse.
Furious Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Spinning I bet in all your discussions with the wife of the pro's and con's of your career move to Hk, you did not once mention the attraction and budding romance with the OW who just happens to be in HK also. You have teenagers, and you know at their age they're engrossed with friends and school and interests and would be hesitant to pick up and leave to live in a foreign country. You knew this, you knew that your wife would have to choose between packing it all up to go with you or be practical and remain at home with the children. I bet your OW encouraged you to take the new position in HK, she is so understanding of your aspirations and supports you in your advancement, not like your selfish children and wife. Also, as soon as the emotional affair began years ago, you slowly confided more to OW and began closing yourself off to your wife. In essence you fed the emotional affair and starved your relationship with your wife. The OW is now your best friend and your wife...well she's just the wife, and of course you are now thinking that you both have very little in common except for the children and the responsibility of finances and the everyday chores and monotonous same old routines. Inch by inch your cross the line, you and the OW meanwhile are mulling over the guilt and reassuring each other that it shouldn't go further, that you're both good people and don't want to hurt anyone. THIS IS PART AND PARCEL OF ESTABLISHING THE FOUNDATION OF THE PEDESTAL YOU ARE NOW BOTH PERCHED ON....CREATING THE ILLUSION OF INTEGRITY AND HONOR WHERE THERE IS NONE. Your situation is so cliche and scripted, you both think you're different and your story is unique. Truth is you're a middle aged man, going through a mid life crisis, who feels he is entitled to be selfish and is willing to destroy many lives in the process. 3
frozensprouts Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 There are wayward spouses who post here ( RickFoxx is one that i know of...there are others, but remembering names isn't my strongest suit:laugh:...take a look and you'll find others...maybe some other members an help with this) like I wrote before, being away from your spouse is really hard...( happens a lot around here, and the running joke is that when a spouse wants some 'company " when their husband/wife is deployed/ away for training or exercises, etc. they put a box of Tide detergent in the window)... It's hard, but it's still not an excuse... Try this for an example... Do you have a daughter? If so ( or if you have a son) and their spouse cheated would you accept " but i was away and I was lonely" as an excuse for hurting your child/grandchildren? My guess is that you wouldn't. So why is it okay for you to use that excuse? is that really the kind of man you want to be, or are you better than that? The fact that you came on here looking for advice would , to me, indicate that you know, on some level, that cheating is wrong for you...but once you do it, you can never, ever take it back You will never fix the problems in your marriage by cheating. It's far better to talk to your wife, let her know how you feel and try and find a solution that works for both of you... Like I have said before...you don't seem like a bad guy, so don't act like one. Be the kind of man your children will be proud of...there's no shame in feeling lonely and not wanting to be alone...it's how you handle it that matters best of luck to you
onthefence210 Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Well it's 430am and I'm awake again. Damn. What the hell kind of a mess have I created? Are any of these from WS? You're so right most of you. This is Russian roulette with more peoples life than just my own. I'm not strong enough yet to just walk away from it. Let me see how it goes today at work. Will now try for another 90 mins sleep before work Spinning...I am a FWS so if you're looking for support, yeah u need to go to OW/OM forum. Please listen to these responses you're getting, they are all right in their opinions not because it's them pushing their thoughts on you but because most if not all have been on the receiving end of what you're doing. As a WS, and my R was highly emotional, yet it was long distance, so I can't even imagine the extent of yours moving to another country to be near her to entertain it even more. You need to do one of two things, go home, ask your wife for a D and file. Explain to her the truth at that point I'm not sure about that??? Maybe someone can help with that??? Or move home tell her the truth and work on your marriage. IMO you can't ask her to move to HK where the OW is working with you, that just would be a Dick move and is worthy of being stoned. As a WS, if you choose to end the A, understand that you will go thru tremendous grief. It's like a death except there isnt anyone to cry to. You need to seek IC and MC for your own sanity. Nothing about this will be easy for you or your S. I think that was the hardest part right after I confessed, the grief and not knowing why I wanted out of my M. Was it due to shame or due to past marital issues. I can safely say that the shame didn't go away once I realized I no longer wanted to be married to my H. The emotions post A, and yes you are in one, are going to be hard but believe me, so worth the work. Your OW, has been in this situation before, I think u mentioned? Why is not a red flag for MM??? What is wrong with this girl??? Did she not learn the first time??? I can empathize with what you're feeling but please...she has past experience with MM. Stop what you're doing, do either posted above (if u choose D, do not consummate A til it's been signed) and get yourself into IC. Believe me when I say, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. If u r a descent person, and you follow thru on the A, you will suffer more emotionally then the A is truly worth and that is just your feelings. I think the other responses have given ur wife's. I hope you move back home and work on your marriage. There is no job worth staying at in my opinion that takes precedence over family. If you know in your heart that you don't want the M...then be honest with your W, and file. If u choose the latter, please look at the stats for affairs that go on to anything more or even last. Those numbers arent worth whatever you think you're going to get from this R. Especially not with a serial OW!!! 2
GLDheart Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Also, as soon as the emotional affair began years ago, you slowly confided more to OW and began closing yourself off to your wife. In essence you fed the emotional affair and starved your relationship with your wife. The OW is now your best friend and your wife...well she's just the wife, and of course you are now thinking that you both have very little in common except for the children and the responsibility of finances and the everyday chores and monotonous same old routines. Inch by inch your cross the line, you and the OW meanwhile are mulling over the guilt and reassuring each other that it shouldn't go further, that you're both good people and don't want to hurt anyone. THIS IS PART AND PARCEL OF ESTABLISHING THE FOUNDATION OF THE PEDESTAL YOU ARE NOW BOTH PERCHED ON....CREATING THE ILLUSION OF INTEGRITY AND HONOR WHERE THERE IS NONE. Your situation is so cliche and scripted... That bit hit me pretty hard. Spinning, I can't speak for your wife. But if I could, I would say to you to end your relationship with honesty. Tell her that you aren't happy. End it like a man. Don't break her heart and leave her hurting. Don't make her second guess what is wrong with her that you could do this to her. If your marriage has to end... so be it... just not this way. 1
Athena Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 spinning it doesn't matter what you do. Your wife already made the choice to opt out of your marriage when she refused to follow you to HK for your work. It amazes me that you would even give her a choice. Do you realize how broken your family must already be that your wife and kids would not want to be with the father of the family? She is perfectly content to live her life without you, other than as a source of financial support. She lacks any respect for you as proved by the fact that she thought she could say "no" to you and that there would be no negative consequences to her. Apparently she doesn't view your being thousands of miles away from her as any kind of a negative consequence. Conclusion: It doesn't matter if you cheat with the HK babe because odds are very very very high your wife is already cheating on you, and probably has been for years. Do you seriously think any woman who loved her man would refuse to follow him abroad or at least put up a huge fight to keep you from going? Your wife did neither. She is happy to see you go as long as the cheques from HK keep rolling in. It's very ironic that you are tormenting yourself over whether to have a fling with the HK babe since your wife is probably getting nailed on a regular basis by one or more lovers. You might be right with all this, however, I am thinking Spinning spun things so that his wife did NOT follow him, since he decided to go to HK this year only because he knew his OW was. Sometimes a wife tries to follow, and the husband sabotages her attempts. I think that Spinning KNEW if he picked NOW to go to HK, that his wife could not follow, since their two kids were in high school.... whereas if Spinning genuinely wanted her with him, he would have gone to HK in a couple of years time, when their kids finish high school.... looks like he CHOSE a very inconvenient time, when he knew he could dissuade his family from following him. Don't forget, he had an agenda to be alone with the OW
Furious Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 You might be right with all this, however, I am thinking Spinning spun things so that his wife did NOT follow him, since he decided to go to HK this year only because he knew his OW was. Sometimes a wife tries to follow, and the husband sabotages her attempts. I think that Spinning KNEW if he picked NOW to go to HK, that his wife could not follow, since their two kids were in high school.... whereas if Spinning genuinely wanted her with him, he would have gone to HK in a couple of years time, when their kids finish high school.... looks like he CHOSE a very inconvenient time, when he knew he could dissuade his family from following him. Don't forget, he had an agenda to be alone with the OW I agree Athena. It also seems that Mr. Spinning doesn't seem to mind that he will be away from his kids for long stretches of time. He barely mentioned them in his posts. He seems quite self involved and seems to have no qualms leaving his wife back home to deal with two teenagers. Mr. Spinning spins a good tale about his wife not choosing to pack up and join him in HK, notice how he looks for sympathy that he sometimes gets lonely. Yes it must be difficult to be living the bachelor lifestyle without those pesky teenagers of his and how convenient that his very good friend who likes to cuddle happens to be in town. 1
Author Spinning Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 Ok time for another update. When I used spinning as a name that was in the sense of where my head is. I'm going to get flamed for the following comment but OW didn't beg me to come, neither do I think she is leading me on and she is defintely not a money grabber, see earlier comments. If anything she is the one that is now raising all the red flags and a long message this morning about why this has to stop for her sake. I'm not focussed at work and the atmos is unbearable and I'm paranoid that others can see it So here's flamed number 2. Call me dangerous but I have to do this. We are meeting tonight at a neutral and public venue. I am going to agree with her that we have to cool it and work out the practilaties of how we deal with the situation at work. I'm also going to ask her straight. If I go back and issue an ultimatum to W - come with me or bust do we have a future or is it still no. Is that irrational ? I can be bloody minded when I set out to be
Author Spinning Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 And sorry do I miss my kids like crazy. You bet I do.
Athena Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Ok time for another update. When I used spinning as a name that was in the sense of where my head is. I'm going to get flamed for the following comment but OW didn't beg me to come, neither do I think she is leading me on and she is defintely not a money grabber, see earlier comments. If anything she is the one that is now raising all the red flags and a long message this morning about why this has to stop for her sake. I'm not focussed at work and the atmos is unbearable and I'm paranoid that others can see it So here's flamed number 2. Call me dangerous but I have to do this. We are meeting tonight at a neutral and public venue. I am going to agree with her that we have to cool it and work out the practilaties of how we deal with the situation at work. I'm also going to ask her straight. If I go back and issue an ultimatum to W - come with me or bust do we have a future or is it still no. Is that irrational ? I can be bloody minded when I set out to be If you issue an ultimatum to your W, you HAVE TO BE TRUTHFUL TO HER so that she can make a decision with ALL the facts at hand. Otherwise don't bother if you are just going to lie to her and gaslight her -- she will sense it doesn't add up and over time she will suspect you met someone else... so you may as well have some integrity and tell her the damn truth. Secondly, your OW will not be worth losing your M for. What tells me this? The fact that she targets MM as potential partners... what do MM have in common? They are NOT available partners, and she chooses unavailable men for a reason -- because SHE is not available herself. She's also divorced. Put all her history into perspective and I highly doubt you will be happy with her after your initial sexual activity dies down and you are faced with reality -- you will be exchanging one woman for another, with a whole new set of issues. My suggestion is tell your OW to pack up and leave HK. Your wife will either come to HK with you (knowing you got rid of your OW) and give your marriage a good shot, or you will cut your trip short and head home earlier than expected, and tell your boss that the kids need you home and you will try HK again in a few years. But don't try make your wife come to HK to compete with Ms MM Poacher. Not fair. Can you do these things? Either go home to the UK, or send OW away? 1
chalkfarm Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I haven't read all of the posts in this thread so if I am restating, I apologize. Spinning, you are in a rare and unique position to see the future and completely alter it. If you stop everything right now, you save all those involved from total devastation. I posted the following for another MM considering a full blown affair. He posted once, got tons of front line honesty, and never posted again. One thing I didn't mention was - I find it better to have regrets about what I haven't done that what I have done. So, with that said, here is what I told the other gent. "... if you continue you will absolutely 100% DESTROY these women. The effects of affairs are obliterative. Period. The amount of damage you will cause is the emotional equivalent of Hiroshima. It is atomic, nuclear, absolute. And you have the power RIGHT NOW to stop the holocaust. BE A MAN AND TAKE THE HIT! JUST STOP! Even if stopping hurts you right now, the kind of hurt you will cause and the kind of guilt you will feel down the line, will far outweigh any pleasure. I say this as an ex-other woman. Being in an affair with a man who left his wife and then moved back almost killed me. Do you want to be that guy to this "girl"? Do you want to forever be the a$$ who used her like that? How would you feel if some guy used and lied to your daughter, you wife, your mother, your sister? Step away and do not become an emotional rapist because you are on the selfish fast train to all kinds of trauma. I know you will read this and think "Wow! Chalk-Farm is really exaggerating." But I promise you - I speak the truth." Spinning, this is your crystal ball. The only future you will have is pain. 3
frozensprouts Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 if you don't mind me asking, why didn't your wife come with you? was it so your kids could finish school where they are? i will admit that the more you write, the more sad i am getting. Will what you say to your wife be dependent on what your other woman says? If so, then perhaps you should end things with your wife now. If the only reason you would stay with your wife is because your other woman won't have you then you aren't with the other woman just because of loneliness or circumstance...it sounds more like you are with her because of opportunity, and you can blame it on your wife not going with you, and you won't be the "bad guy"...the distance is just and excuse and you are the same as all the other men/women who have cheated on their spouses... why is it up to your wife to give up her life to be where you are, and also your children? were there no other jobs in your area or positions with your firm that you could have taken in your area so that you could stay there at least until the kids finish school so they wouldn't be uprooted? what is it about this job that makes it worth all this heartache? was it the money, were you afraid of losing your job if you didn't move? did you move to be with your other woman? if so, how hard did you really try to convince your wife to go? did you make it seem okay if she stayed behind then punish her for not coming by continuing the affair? ask yourself this...if she showed up tomorrow and said she wanted to be with you, would you be happy, sad, angry that it meant the end of your affair? think about that and what your answer tells you... about your other woman....she feels being in the affair is bad for her and it should stop yet she makes arrangements to meet with you, eve in a neutral place? if she wated to end it, she'd be trying much harder than that...take a look at the "no contact" threads in the other man/woman section...many are trying really hard to end their affair...do their stories sound like your other woman's? Sounds to me like your other woman could know just exactly what she is doing...threaten to take the drug away from the addict and he'll want it even more- so you give them a tiny bit to keep them hooked...that's manipulative, and and other women that i have seen that really want it to end don't do that...they may break "no contact', but only after really giving it as much as they can i'm sorry if i am being hard on you...it's just that the whole situation seems very unfair to your wife... one more question... when you give her the ultimatum, will you tell her why you are giving it? what will your reasons be? will you be honest, or will you try and make her feel guilty about not going with you in the first place? what if she can't go, and gives you the ultimatum that you come back home, at least until the kids finish school/ what would you say to that? 1
Athena Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Good questions, Frozensprouts... let me hazard a guess... Mr. Spinning knew for years about the opportunity to work abroad in HK, and warned his wife that 'someday' he'd go there to earn the big bucks. Unfortunately, he followed Ms OW to HK earlier than expected, and went there earlier this year... his wife couldn't fight him not to go, since he had 'told' her about HK years ago. Of course he did not want his wife and kids with him while he was testing the waters with his wonderful OW. Now, he's trying to pin the blame on his poor unsuspecting wife by feeding her half-truths, so that when she turns down his Last Minute Plan for her to fly out there ASAP (I bet he's not going to give her a few months to plan it), he'll have his dick in Ms Wonderful OW's you-know-what. Makes me sick. Anyway, to reiterate -- contracting abroad makes you big bucks. He wants to earn big bucks for five years so he can retire early. Never mind if he cheats on his wife, loses his M, and messes up his children's lives, oh -- and if he REALLY missed them so much, why would he have gone to Hong Kong now? It was His choice to do so, just for more bucks. Right, Spinning?
Author Spinning Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 Just to say I'm not ignoring these comments. It was easy to respond earlier in my lunch break. Will do a full catch up later. I can see some knives out for me already ha ha. Look I'm not here to defend myself. I'm here because I want help badly at a massive junction in my life even if I don't want to read the flak thrown in my direction. Will respond when I can give the responses the full dignity they deserve. Just knowing i have these to review later is a big help for me. Thanks 1
Author Spinning Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 I will say this. I am beginning to question the wisdom of starting to bear my soul. Yes I'm in denial, yes I'm an utter **** bag but the rules asked me to state feelings which I'm trying very hard to do. Look 2 days ago I didn't even realise I was in an A. Does that sound stupid. As a male I guess I looked at the P not the E element of this. I think I can begin to understand the feelings of BS and yes I needed the reality wake up call. Most of what I'm reading here is positive but some isn't and I'm bang in the middle of something I'm really struggling with. Am I feeling sorry for myself and being selfish. I don't know I'm just trying to be open on here even if I can't (yet) be open with my W 1
Athena Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Yes, it can't be easy reading the positive and the negative posts, but it all helps you in some way. Do you think the people in Real Life who know you won't also have positives and negatives to say and think about you? -- especially your wife! There's NOTHING on here that you won't hear from your wife if you go ahead with this affair. I don't know you, but I don't want you to make this huge 'mistake' (choice) which will mess up your life. I've lived through the receiving end of what you are about to do, and I have cried my heart out, wondering why my wonderful, loving husband would EVER choose to do that to ME?! It has broken me down for years. Now I am on the mend, however I don't feel the same way about my husband... he knows it, and it hurts him terribly that his wife does not adore him like she used to. In the end you get nothing valuable out of becoming a Cheater and a Liar -- how can you? How can a rapist and a thief get any true value from their activities? It's wrong because it's wrong on ALL levels. 1
Author Spinning Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 Ok contrary to what seems to be popular advice I'm now off for the discussion with the OW. Dangerous ? You betcha. But I firmly believe she is more determined than me (in the spirit of honesty) that tonight is a full blown cards on the table this has to stop conversation. That said I have prepared a script which I fully intend to stick by and I've already told you I'm bloody minded when I want to be. For my part I'm putting everything on hold until I return home but seeing as I sit 5 foot from OW some practicalities have to be discussed. In my game career is everything. I've Jeapordised that enough but if I ended up out of the market I wouldn't get back in and yes that WAS. A factor in moving from Europe. I'm not going to get into a debate about some of the comments about OW tonight but there are some facts I'll be needing to clear up on here. Wish me strength, luck and courage. What I'm just about to do is either going to destroy or be the second step in rebuIlding my life. Step 1 was joining here. 1
Athena Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Yes, I wish you Strength to get through this, and do the Right Thing 1
Athena Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Gotta leave for work now, so let us know how it goes!
frozensprouts Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 I know it may seem like you are being given a hard time, but the people on here are being honest about the effect infidelity can have...I know it may seem "melodramatic" and maybe to a certain extent it is, but know that the pain being expressed here is real...and that's the pain you'll put your wife through because you cheated... she may be able to forgive an emotional affair , but a physical one is even harder to forgive...if you find self control with this other woman to be difficult, try picturing your wife's face, your children's faces when they find out you cheated...is it worth causing that kind of pain?
GLDheart Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 That meeting you are going to sounds like a recipe for "forbidden fruit" syndrome. I can see the night becoming like "starting a diet tomorrow". You might as well indulge a bit... one... last.... time....
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