tom44b Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 My wife (W) and I were married in 2001. I knew J prior to meeting W and I had dated J casually. We were never in a committed relationship and I considered her a friend rather than a girlfriend. We always seemed to get together when one or the other was having boyfriend/girlfriend problems and discussed how to solve the problems. At one time while W and I were broke up J and I discussed becoming a couple and we attempted sex. It was unsuccessful as my penis didn't seem to be interested in her and couldn't get erect. At that point we decided that we just needed to keep the relationship the way is was -- friends and activity partners. My wife and I dated for about 4 years and broke up 4 times. The last time we broke up I was trying to decide what to do and discussed it with J and she told me that she could tell that I was in love with W and that I should ask her to marry me. I did, partially on the advice of J. About a year and half later J called me at the office. She said she was just going through her address book and calling people she knew. I knew that in reality she had probably broke up with a boyfriend and needed a friend.. W had lost her job and was working for me at the time. We shared a large office. J asked me if I was still married (seemed like a silly question at the time), and I told her yes and that W was working with me. I had just started a new business as a mortgage broker and told J about that. She was excited and said she was buying a house and would I be interested in going her mortgage. We had just started this business and didn't have that much going on, so I was super excited at the prospect of making a $3,000 commission. W listened to most of my conversation then went to the rest room. When she came back she asked who I was talking to. I told her and she got very upset and said she didn't want me talking to J, and she certainly didn't want me doing a mortgage for her. I stated that I had already pulled her credit report, and what did she want me to do -- call J and say W says I can't do your mortgage? Yes, that's exactly what she wanted. I explained that we were hurting for money and needed the $3,000 and refused to back down. That night she was very angry with me. She physically hit me (not very hard, but I got the idea) and slept in the extra bedroom. I made sure that W was in the office every time I talked to J, and I insisted that I wasn't doing anything wrong. W accepted it, but make it clear that she didn't like it. The loan closed and we got the $3,000. A couple of years later J sent me an email asking whether she should refinance her house or get a Home Equity Line of Credit. I evaluated her situation and advised that she call her bank and get the HELOC. I did not let W know about this email exchange. About a year ago she again contacted me and said that she had lost her job and was thinking about becoming a Realtor. In the meantime, I had also become a Realtor and I told her that. She wanted my advice. I was conflicted. What should I do? Should I tell J to go away that W wouldn't allow me to talk to her? Should I ask W's permission to talk to J? I finally made the decision to give J advice. I met with her for lunch one time and had several email and phone conversations. These were all business related, and nothing personal was discussed that I wouldn't have discussed with anyone I was dealing with. This was over a period of several months. Now it's a year later and I'm still feeling guilty about sneaking around behind W's back and having lunch with J. What should I do? Should I confess or just let it go? W will think what I did was cheating and she will probably be very upset. Is she correct? Thanks for your advice.
GLDheart Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 You can stand your ground and hold onto the friendship. Your wife will have to understand. OR You can respect your wife's insecurity about this and end it with your friend. EITHER WAY LYING IS THE WRONG THING!! It makes it look like you are up to no good and hiding it. I mean, why lie over just a simple lunch... YOU MUST HAVE DONE MORE!! That is the mind movies that lying will cause your wife anyway. That is a BIG ERROR (and cowardly too) on your part hiding it. Now a year later, what to do.... WHEN your wife finds out that you lied your screwed pal. It will of course be best if you are the one to break it to her though. Also, since you lied. Expect your wife to be even less understanding of you now if you try to stand your ground and hold onto the friendship. At the end of the day who is more important to you? The wife or the friend? That will be how your wife looks at it anyway. Good luck. You have a bit of housekeeping to do.
Spark1111 Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 Tom, what you did might have been innocent, but keeping it secret from your wife was a really, really big mistake. What would you think if she had done what you did with an old bf, or someone she attempted sex with but never culminated, and never told you about it? What would you think? At the very worst, she cheated, and at the very least that she hugely disrespected your wishes and then lied by omission. I understand it was hard to get off the hook with this woman's wants and needs as they all seem to be related to your lines of work, but keeping it a secret was a big no no. And this x whatever she is, seems to call you A LOT, IMO. Your wife's radar went up the first time because she obviously got a vibe and you should have respected it if you respect your wife. You did not. When her old bfs call to get her advice on mortgages, ESPECIALLY when they seem to be in between romantic partners, you will maybe understand her feelings better. She was trying to set a boundary for the sake of your marriage and you crossed it not wanting to seem like the bad guy. If this woman is now simply an old friend, she should be invited to dinner so she can be your wife's friend too. Your wife should have been invited to lunch to discuss with you real estate selling. I would tell your wife to circumvent J's calling again to seek more of your advice without your wife knowing. In fact, next time she calls, have your wife handle the question, issue, need, info. 3
whichwayisup Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 Why you more concerned about pissing off or hurting J than you are your own wife? You CONTINUALLY have done things behind her (your wife) back, so what if you're not 'cheating', you're sneaking around, having lunch, helping this woman that your wife has ASKED you not to be involved with on any level. And it's been going on for a long time. WHY? 2
Radu Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 Like Spark said, it may have been innocent but it will be the hiding of it that will make it look like an EA. I personally don't like the many splits in those 4yrs, who did them ?
Author tom44b Posted July 14, 2012 Author Posted July 14, 2012 EITHER WAY LYING IS THE WRONG THING!! It makes it look like you are up to no good and hiding it. I mean, why lie over just a simple lunch... YOU MUST HAVE DONE MORE!! That is the mind movies that lying will cause your wife anyway. That is a BIG ERROR (and cowardly too) on your part hiding it. I didn't lie. I just didn't tell W about it. I have business lunches all the time that I don't tell W about.
GLDheart Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 I didn't lie. I just didn't tell W about it. I have business lunches all the time that I don't tell W about. Come on man.... don't play innocent. If you knew your wife would care about it and you witheld the info... it is tantamount to lying. If you lead your wife to believe one thing and the reality is something different YOU ARE LIVING A LIE. Don't even pull that crap with your wife... She's not stupid. It will just add fuel to the fire. 2
anne1707 Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 I didn't lie. I just didn't tell W about it. I have business lunches all the time that I don't tell W about. But you are not posting about those lunches which means you know this is different.
Athena Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 I didn't lie. I just didn't tell W about it. I have business lunches all the time that I don't tell W about. It looks like you believe that lying only includes telling an untruth, whereas in reality lying also includes hiding relevant, pertinent, information. Lies are not only overt, they can be covert -- they can be in the What You Leave Out when talking to someone... those hidden types of lies can hurt just as badly as those outright fabrication of the truth! Don't kid yourself. You lied to your wife by hiding the truth.
Author tom44b Posted July 14, 2012 Author Posted July 14, 2012 Lies are not only overt, they can be covert -- they can be in the What You Leave Out when talking to someone... those hidden types of lies can hurt just as badly as those outright fabrication of the truth! That's an interesting thought. I guess I would like to believe that I did nothing wrong, however I obviously don't believe that or I wouldn't have posted this question. So, what do I do about it?
Author tom44b Posted July 14, 2012 Author Posted July 14, 2012 And it's been going on for a long time. WHY? Because I consider her a friend. I never had a romantic relationship with her, and would never consider it. Is there anything wrong with a guy having a female friend?
darkmoon Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 i'd shut up and be diplomatic, just drop J, no more chance to piss your wife off, and you know this deep down i bet, you know telling your wife might well cause upest - do not go the confession route hurting your wife in the process, she might wonder why you had to, seriously
Athena Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) That's an interesting thought. I guess I would like to believe that I did nothing wrong, however I obviously don't believe that or I wouldn't have posted this question. So, what do I do about it? My suggestion is to quit responding to your female acquaintance behind your wife's back -- you already KNOW that your wife's express wishes are for you NOT to have any contact with that woman! If you DO wish to have contact with your 'friend', you will have to have a conversation with your wife to determine the parameters that your friendship will have, with her (your wife's) blessing. If you do not have your wife's blessing, then you should not pursue a relationship with this other woman behind your wife's back. I'm not saying go open up a can of worms with your wife right now, but on the other hand if your wife asks you any questions, answer her truthfully! I am also suggesting the very first step you take is to STOP the offending behavior. For now. Until you establish with your wife that you intend on having a relationship with this other woman. Why not have a conversation with your wife? Ask her why she feels so strongly about you not doing anything with this other woman. You never told us if your wife knew about your penis not performing with the other woman? Does your wife know the two of you tried to take it to a sexual level, or not? Edited July 14, 2012 by Athena
darkmoon Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 My suggestion is to quit responding to your female acquaintance behind your wife's back -- you already KNOW that your wife's express wishes are for you NOT to have any contact with that woman! If you DO wish to have contact with your 'friend', you will have to have a conversation with your wife to determine the parameters that your friendship will have, with her (your wife's) blessing. If you do not have your wife's blessing, then you should not pursue a relationship with this other woman behind your wife's back. I'm not saying go open up a can of worms with your wife right now, but on the other hand if your wife asks you any questions, answer her truthfully! I am also suggesting the very first step you take is to STOP the offending behavior. For now. Until you establish with your wife that you intend on having a relationship with this other woman. Why not have a conversation with your wife? Ask her why she feels so strongly about you not doing anything with this other woman. You never told us if your wife knew about your penis not performing with the other woman? Does your wife know the two of you tried to take it to a sexual level, or not? this is his wife we're talking about - how upsetting to go on about even trying to have sex with someone else - plan an anniversary surprise or something - just drop J - you are married.
Athena Posted July 14, 2012 Posted July 14, 2012 this is his wife we're talking about - how upsetting to go on about even trying to have sex with someone else - plan an anniversary surprise or something - just drop J - you are married. I do agree with this -- J is not worth any distrust in your marriage, and sneaking around behind your wife's back (lying to her) and so on and so forth, all the while justifying your actions by saying, "what's wrong with a guy having a female friend?" It's just not worth it. And don't forget, you DID try to have sex with her! So you can't claim it wasn't 'romantic' !!
GLDheart Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 The women posters in this thread are giving you great insight into the way your wife will look at all of this. Dropping the friend is obviously the easiest as it requires zero talk... just walk away. Explain to your friend that the friendship is stressing your marriage if you have to. The other path is the most treacherous to walk. The reason for this is that your friend has more than just "friendship feelings' for you. Do not deny this. The writing is on the wall. Do not hide this from your wife. Women sense this stuff a million miles away when it comes to thier husbands. That is why remaining friends and remaining true to your marriage is the hardest. You need to be 100% transparent to your wife AND 100% upfront with your friend that YOU WILL NEVER BREAK YOUR VOWS. With that, and an understanding wife, you can be friends with her... but be prepared for the drama. 1
Spark1111 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I didn't lie. I just didn't tell W about it. I have business lunches all the time that I don't tell W about. That's called lying by omission. It's still a lie because you kept it secret from your wife knowing she would not have approved. In fact, she would have been very upset about it and on some level you knew this. How would you feel if she had what may have been an innocent lunch with an old boyfriend, but....oops, did not disclose that to you? It wasn't the lunch, per se, it was that she did not disclose it to you. Now your mind starts spinning and all you can think of is WHY? Is she attracted to him? You see how this erodes trust and fosters suspicion, yes?
Spark1111 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Because I consider her a friend. I never had a romantic relationship with her, and would never consider it. Is there anything wrong with a guy having a female friend? No. But I believe MARRIED partners should not have friends of the opposite sex if they are not a friend to both spouses. That is a very slippery slope, sorry. 1
GLDheart Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 No. But I believe MARRIED partners should not have friends of the opposite sex if they are not a friend to both spouses. That is a very slippery slope, sorry. It is more than just who's friends with who. It's about trust. I caught my Ex lying about being on the phone with a guy that she worked with. We talked about it. She "explained it all away"... I told her that I didn't have a problem with her having a friend. MY PROBLEM WAS THAT SHE NEEDED TO LIE TO ME ABOUT IT. That told me all I needed to know. I gave her the chance to move forward and act right. I stand by my decision and will say the same thing to the next girl in my life. BE FRIENDS WITH WHOEVER YOU WANT. LIE TO ME AND WE ARE DONE. Well, in my case, the night (months later) that I again caught my ex in the lie was the last night I saw her. I honored myself and asked her to leave. So be friends with whoever. BUT, be honest about it.
Spark1111 Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Agreed. But even the ones who are a friend to both spouses can be a problem. How many OW are friends with their MM's wives? Or they're in the "circle" of friends. Ahh, very true. It is normal to feel attraction to others; it is human nature and how we choose our friends, our favorite family members, our spouses. In the very best marriages, spouses talk of their attraction to someone outside the marriage and put boundaries in place to preserve the marital relationship. Imagine that? 1
Author tom44b Posted July 15, 2012 Author Posted July 15, 2012 The friend said she was just going through her address book and calling people she knew. That's enough to make a radar go up. This is the relationship we had so it didn't seem strange to me. When she was between boyfriends she would contact me. We would talk, do activities together (dutch treat) etc. If there had ever been a relationship with J I would have felt differently and understood W's concern.
BetrayedH Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I seriously recommend you read the book, Not Just Friends, and then get back to us. I don't believe in friends of the opposite sex either, especially ones with whom you have (tried to have been) intimate. If you read the book and come back and say it's all cool to be friends with J, more power to you. I'll call your wife myself and tell her not to worry.
whichwayisup Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Why you more concerned about pissing off or hurting J than you are your own wife? You CONTINUALLY have done things behind her (your wife) back, so what if you're not 'cheating', you're sneaking around, having lunch, helping this woman that your wife has ASKED you not to be involved with on any level. And it's been going on for a long time. WHY? I'm reposting this. You didn't answer the question I asked. Or maybe I should re phrase it.. Why is it more important for you do something that your wife has asked you not to do? IE see/speak to/go out with to lunch with J? Why can't you put your wife's feelings first above J? Why are you afraid of hurting J more than you are your own wife. 1
Author tom44b Posted July 16, 2012 Author Posted July 16, 2012 Why is it more important for you do something that your wife has asked you not to do? IE see/speak to/go out with to lunch with J? Why can't you put your wife's feelings first above J? Why are you afraid of hurting J more than you are your own wife. I look at it slightly differently. Why is it so important that she thinks that she has to control me? The initial phone call happened while we were in the same office and she overheard my end of it. I told her the full story as soon as we hung up. J was in the office several times while I was doing her mortgage and W was in the same room every time (we had a big office that we shared). I made sure when I set up an appointment for J to come in that W was going to be there. There was nothing going on between J and myself. Why can't W understand this and accept it? As far as I am concerned she was the one being completely unreasonable. I have never tried to control her and tell her who she can and cannot see so why should she be able to control me? The way I see it the only thing I did wrong was not tell W that I was communicating with J after the mortgage was complete. .
nofool4u Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 What should I do? Should I confess or just let it go? W will think what I did was cheating and she will probably be very upset. Is she correct? In a sense, yes, its cheating. You are having contact behind your wife's back with an old flame. At the very least you need to tell J that she is to never contact you again. She is just trying to keep the contact going. It needs to stop. Tell J that you are married and being in contact with an old flame is inappropriate and she is never to contact you again.
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