Leigh 87 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 I swear, I don't want to read the word height again Height is less of an issue than people think it is. And I think someone's facial attractiveness can be improved, but also that not every face is universally good looking to everyone in my opinion. Yes, I know, I'm too much of an idealist ............ No, this is true! Not ever guy wants a slender and tanned babe who has a killer body and a cute, small, up turned or button nose. Some men I have heard of DO prefer more a unconventional look! They may still want a fit chick, but perhaps with a more interesting face, with say, a bigger nose. Or, they may prefer a cute face on a chubby body. My boyfriends best friend is a ladies man and dates models and the best looking girls. He even admitted to me though, that: " although I do date thin and beautiful looking girls, I wwant a ggirl that is different to the stero type of attractive..." And that " sometimes it looks boring when they are too perfect, nothing stands out of is that exotic or interesting" .....his last most recent ex who I met several times, made him very horny at first: she was tanned, thin, fake boobs, small up turned nose. But while she eas stunning, I find it more attractive when there is more..... interest to that look; for instance, a huge butt rather than a bean pole, or a more exotic look, or strong dimples, or a scar somewhere....
SmileFace Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 No, this is true! Not ever guy wants a slender and tanned babe who has a killer body and a cute, small, up turned or button nose. Some men I have heard of DO prefer more a unconventional look! They may still want a fit chick, but perhaps with a more interesting face, with say, a bigger nose. Or, they may prefer a cute face on a chubby body. My boyfriends best friend is a ladies man and dates models and the best looking girls. He even admitted to me though, that: " although I do date thin and beautiful looking girls, I wwant a ggirl that is different to the stero type of attractive..." And that " sometimes it looks boring when they are too perfect, nothing stands out of is that exotic or interesting" .....his last most recent ex who I met several times, made him very horny at first: she was tanned, thin, fake boobs, small up turned nose. But while she eas stunning, I find it more attractive when there is more..... interest to that look; for instance, a huge butt rather than a bean pole, or a more exotic look, or strong dimples, or a scar somewhere.... Leigh do you ever reread what you write?
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Well, IMO, It's bullsh*t. 80-20 might be (and probably is), but I'd say 30-10 isn't so far fetched.
Leigh 87 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 And I do not only go for the upper 20%, so I am not sure that most women are only after the top 20%! Such women sound like idiots! " oh no, I am not going for that guy, he is not super good looking" I mean, really? You are going to down play the virtues of having true love, and intead stay single because not all good men who want you are attractive enough? I have one friend who is like that, though she is super good lokin herself; a stunning Russian girl who is very clever (studying a medical orientated degree). SO - she goes for the hottest men with good jobs, because she is their EQUAL. She has the best looking me go for her. However, an average looking women would be lonley a lot of the time if she had those standards, so WHY WOULD most women have the same standards as my good looking friend? It does not make sense for women to ALL go for the top 20% if they crave love and intimacy. She is not that much better looking than me, but I go for totally average looking men, who are special to me. I really like how they go from average looking, to totally hot over time due to the way I feel about them! It is a much mroe interesting process, allowing your feelings to make a guy massively grow in attractiveness, rather then get a guy who all girls would find to be gorgeous. When I work out heaps I have a killer body (thin yet very curvacious), and I can pick from good looking men, but I prefer not to date the best looking men and never AIM for them. Frankly, I would not enjoy girls drooling over a boyfriend who was model material! I like that my boyfriend is attractive, but not enough to have the hottest girls hanging off of him!
Leigh 87 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Leigh do you ever reread what you write? I am in bed writing this so I could not really give a crap if I make typos, I am not out to impress a bunch of strangers. I know that I am not stupid (based on my academic results) so why would I care what you think?
Leigh 87 Posted November 6, 2012 Posted November 6, 2012 Leigh do you ever reread what you write? Sh*t THAT POST was for ANOTHER THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!! That post was for a totally diff thread Okay fine I will over my posts to check that they are in the right thread. Oops.
Leigh 87 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Ummm, yeah. Haha I did that once before my bad. But honestly though, I do not care if my lack of spelling or grammer come off as though I am a moron, because at the end of the day, you do not know what my academic results were.
mesmerized Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I don't agree with the theory. However one thing seem to be true for both men and women. And that is the top 10 20 (dont know the exact percentage!) that is considered the most attractive is wanted by the majority of the opposite sex members. This is even more true for men than women. Look at pua, it tries to teach men how to get 10s regardless of the men's looks. They are not bothered about your average Jane. Any man and woman who is not in that most wanted category will have some trouble with dating, will have to face rejections and some heartbreak. Depending on demographics though This can change. Where I live this is very real IMO. You very often hear from people "I wont settle" and it usually means they won't be satisfied until they land a 9 or a 10(Looks or other qualities). I have been to other places with less vanity and people having more relaxed or different standards.
dasein Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 IMO and IME, the Pareto Principle is an accurate portrayal of hypergamous behavior in women, but unlike fortynine, I think it's more like 90/10. Have been in the 90 and in the 10 in several different ways in life. In the 90, you simply don't exist without very significant effort and social value building. In the 10 it falls in your lap to the point of satiety until you are experiencing a sex life similar to the -average- woman's. I also believe that women are willing to share the 10 with other women as long as it's not obvious or their nose is rubbed in it, and have experienced this also. The good news is that social value alone can push you up 20 or so percentile points, so those who don't have the other traditional advantages can push a bit up with effort. My sex life improved -drastically- once I accepted the PP as just a given reality of dating and seducing women. YMMV.
SmileFace Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Haha I did that once before my bad. But honestly though, I do not care if my lack of spelling or grammer come off as though I am a moron, because at the end of the day, you do not know what my academic results were. It is beyond me why you are under impression that I am insulting your intelligence. Projectong, are we? You posted an off topic response in a thread and I brought it to your intention. Your writing style and/or grammatical errors are not of my concern since I am make mistakes myself.
AD1980 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I have two pretty good looking friends and any women i have ever tried to hit on while i was hanging out with either of them ends up asking me about one of them I really dont see this even disribution where women are all attracted to different types of men The good looking dudes i know just about any women ive come in contact with wheter stranger or in my social circle is attracted to them so i dont see these overly diverse tastes women have
threebyfate Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I've not heard this before or seen any research about it. It sounds like a variation of the Pareto Principle. I suspect it has gained traction because it seems like a very neat theory that comforts guys who believe in hierarchies and ladders. If you're in the so-called top tier, then you can comfort yourself in your elite status. If you're not, it allows you to explain away your perceived lack of success by blaming an external factor because you think that getting sex from a woman and/or dating successfully is completely outside of your control. That is, you can absolve yourself from taking responsibility for your life choices and your individual circumstances.Nice analysis. So that people have some form of objective measure, between the ages of 25 - 34, only 46.2% of people have never been married. This means that 53.8% of people are either married (44.9%) or have been married (8.9% divorced or widowed). Must be hella lot of polygamy going on. Don't forget the balance of individuals who are in relationships. If PP is applicable, it would be that 20% of the population aren't getting any. Edited November 7, 2012 by threebyfate
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 I don't agree with the theory. However one thing seem to be true for both men and women. And that is the top 10 20 (dont know the exact percentage!) that is considered the most attractive is wanted by the majority of the opposite sex members. This is even more true for men than women. Look at pua, it tries to teach men how to get 10s regardless of the men's looks. They are not bothered about your average Jane. Any man and woman who is not in that most wanted category will have some trouble with dating, will have to face rejections and some heartbreak. Depending on demographics though This can change. Where I live this is very real IMO. You very often hear from people "I wont settle" and it usually means they won't be satisfied until they land a 9 or a 10(Looks or other qualities). I have been to other places with less vanity and people having more relaxed or different standards. I think it is more to do with exposure and social engineering more than anything. For I've personally noticed that most people have a type and people from outside this percentage can fit into this type. You could almost say that I think everyone has a personal top 20% that doesn't adhere to the top 20% theory regarding all men. But I agree, I have also seen people with more relaxed standards, but they seem to be more aware of the illusory prevalence of beauty standards and know exactly who can fit into their type and aren't worried about their objective/conventional attractiveness.
Leigh 87 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 It is beyond me why you are under impression that I am insulting your intelligence. Projectong, are we? You posted an off topic response in a thread and I brought it to your intention. Your writing style and/or grammatical errors are not of my concern since I am make mistakes myself. Oh, sorry, I thought you were alluding to me being an idiot because I make spelling mistakes and do not always have the best grammar. Others on here have had a go at me over it. And thanks again for letting me know about my wrong thread post! Really, it saved me more embarrassment that I acknowledged that it was in the wrong thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry and thanks.
Leigh 87 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I have two pretty good looking friends and any women i have ever tried to hit on while i was hanging out with either of them ends up asking me about one of them I really dont see this even disribution where women are all attracted to different types of men The good looking dudes i know just about any women ive come in contact with wheter stranger or in my social circle is attracted to them so i dont see these overly diverse tastes women have Enough men find me to be good looking, but I never go for the best looking men. In a group I go for the average guy who is really funny and sounds like a really nice guy. I am not the top 20% of women quiet, but I am good looking to enough men and I have the opportunity to get with hot men, but I never go for the hottest I can get.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Here's what I think. Roughly 8-15% of all heterosexual men under age 40 date 25-30% of all women. Considering that age group is roughly 104 men to 100 women, that means those ratios go down to 96 men for every 75 women, meaning roughly 20% of men are on the outside looking in (as another poster pointed out). That's completely reasonable in my opinion.
Leigh 87 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Women go for the hottest guys their abandonment complexes will allow them to go for. *sigh* not all women go around looking for the hottest men they can get. Not all women go out there with only looks in mind. Plenty of women on here have stated that are more attracted to their intellect and wit, and that that simply have to be attracted enough to have sex with them.
mesmerized Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I think it is more to do with exposure and social engineering more than anything. For I've personally noticed that most people have a type and people from outside this percentage can fit into this type. You could almost say that I think everyone has a personal top 20% that doesn't adhere to the top 20% theory regarding all men. But I agree, I have also seen people with more relaxed standards, but they seem to be more aware of the illusory prevalence of beauty standards and know exactly who can fit into their type and aren't worried about their objective/conventional attractiveness. Yes but some standards are seen universally, if you are a woman with chubby face, small eyes and big nose, chances are you don't fit into 99 percent of mens ideal type. I wish I could say we are all someone's type but that's just being overly optimistic. Anyways, at the end most people have sex and Get married so the theory proves itself wrong. I guess you could alter it to say 20 percent of men and women have it much easier in dating.
Revolver Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 80 percent of the most attractive women on the planet are dating/sleeping with 20 percent of the guys. I mean look at Hollywood But 80% of the women overall? That's garbage
Author ThaWholigan Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 I know lots of guys who are intelligent but can't get girls. -For instance, an online friend of mine is an ivy league student who is having nearly 100k worth of facial reconstructive surgery(jaw osteotemy and le fort 1 procedure) because he's a 22 year old virgin. He's extremely intelligent, 6 3, and articulate. -A very well-spoken doctor who's completely ignored by girls because he's baby faced and 5 8. His masculine faced 6' friend got blow jobs by girls outside of a club. -Another guy who is baby-faced and a bit short at 5 10 of ethnic decent. A top student in his business program in a well respected university. He's also a 21 year old virgin. All of these guys are far more intelligent than me. Why are they in this position? because they're physically unattractive. Or probably because they are extremely sh*t with girls. I'm not saying looks don't matter, but still.....
Ninjainpajamas Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I think there is definitely a variable to it, it's not 80/20 all of the time in every situation but in general it does hold a lot of weight in terms of representation of what you will see out in the single world. As fish taco stated, the individual woman is making the determination of where you rate on that scale, however in general and at the end of the day there's going to be a consistent area that a man will rate in and if you generally rate in the top 20 percent of what women generally want, you can feel pretty confident walking into a social area with women that you're going to have the same success...and with more success comes more confident, a bigger ego and even arrogance for most. It's just like leadership, a lot of people lead, but most people don't handle it responsibly and gracefully IMO. There are also other ways you can squeeze your way into the a higher rating than you initially had as a man, such as charm, personality, humor, intelligence. In fact a lot of women really need to get to know a guy before determining their interest, however it's a little exaggerating how far they'll bend on the attractiveness scale...women tend to have a sense of entitlement that they are capable of being with very desirable men just because they slept with a guy or I mean dated him, and because they forget that men are just primarily seeking sex first, they create this illusion that this is where their bar of expectations is set at even though that guy probably never had intentions of it being long-term. IMO men know long-term investment way in the initial stages, they just act stupid and act like they don't so you'll stick around trying to prove yourself for no reason...It's not like with women, there is no "potential" factor, if you're hot, they just want you to be hot, if you're easy-going, they just want you to be easy-going...forever. Men don't say..."Well...I really think I could fine-tune this woman into the perfect mate, I see all the possibilities here!"...men don't give a damn about potential, they're pretty quick to judge and either that or have high expectations. So unlike a woman his interest is not as much of a variable...he's already determined if you're a one night thing, relationship material or to date only, of course the highest tier in general being whether he'd marry her. A lot of men in the bottom of that 80 percent will typically settle down much quicker as their options are limited, in which they tend to put women on a pedestal, so in general there's even a scale in that 80 percent, the lower you are in it, the more difficult it is for you to land the kind of woman you really are after, however it doesn't mean they won't settle into something they can get, but most men would obviously try and acquire the most desirable woman they could land, and for men they realize that means status, height, good looks, stability and charm or personality as they like to call it, however men don't necessarily find the best looking woman as "wife material" either, in fact I believe ideally men are looking for a more balanced woman who are at the top of the chain, because they have higher expectations especially if they desire children, which is why no surprise men go for younger women to settle down with, means you'll be younger, healthier and stay looking better longer, not to mention easier to mold as a wife...as far as dating, one night stands, FWB's well for these men that pretty much covers just about anything, in fact it can all just come down to a matter of convenience and laziness. It's like when you want a steak but you saw "aww f it, and pick something up at taco bell". I think a good example of this is take a well known 20 percent range guy, with a group four other 80 percent guys to a social setting, and see which guy catches the eyes of the ladies quickly and how women gravitate towards him much more easily. They much more easily spark up conversation and show interest, after all unlike men, when women see a opportunity with a desirable man regardless of where they rate on their scale of desirability because many think they always have a shot at him, where men know when something is out of their league for the most part, because they know that the more desirable guy is going to beat them out regardless, if they're in his presence, women have a sense of entitlement and desire that they can achieve almost any man because she's "worth it". This is why you see men peel off into solo acts because it increases their chances of landing a woman and being seen in her top 20 percent, so you try to be of the top 20 percent in your environment even not just in general. However If he's walking around with casanova who always closes the deal, he's going to be dominating the female interest, and he may not even be noticed because the women will all be gawking in his direction. It's like with lions, head lion gets the kill and eats, the rest stay back and do not challenge, they go around, wait for him to leave or find something else to eat...and since in the real world these top 20 can't be everywhere at one time the 80 percent guy goes somewhere else while he's tied up. Many may not agree with all or some of my statements above, but if something can be duplicated and replicated time and time again in the real world and there is a consistent pattern that I see out in the world then that's what I go based off. You can make arguments and statements that this or that is not true, but I've never seen the apple fall that far from the tree, I've never experienced an occasion in my life where I saw people acting so radically different I was like ::gasp:: this is all new and different, these people are a certain set of "special" humans, with much more intelligence and decency then the rest of the trash that the world makes up...nope, sorry don't work that like, I've seen the mightiest and best do the most scoundrel of deeds and I've seen the scoundrel look like the most decent human being...for a second. So as far as idealistic views of romance and love, look around you and how much is really living up to your "expectations", people like to claim LS isn't the real world, well then what it is? a bunch of loonies in a bin? can argue that or maybe just maybe, everybody is pretty much a basket case until they "settle down" and live a seemingly "normal" and decent lifestyle so they can call the others "crazy". And If you're telling me that you would never be with someone that was really desirable and "hot" because they are too hot and desirable for you even if they met your other expectations because you're just not interested...pleeeease! go blow smoke up someone else ___. What a crock of crap, you either are; A) Too insecure to date that kind of a person because it'd make you feel like crap B) Accepted that you never will so you conveniently shun them before they can shun you to feel better about yourself C) Are bitter or jaded because these people didn't give you the kind of attention you wanted and were ignored, or you just go burned or saw them go with someone else who was a big douche/beatch but better looking than you were or more desirable to them. 1
Emilia Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Many may not agree with all or some of my statements above, but if something can be duplicated and replicated time and time again in the real world and there is a consistent pattern that I see out in the world then that's what I go based off. You can make arguments and statements that this or that is not true, but I've never seen the apple fall that far from the tree, I've never experienced an occasion in my life where I saw people acting so radically different I was like ::gasp:: this is all new and different, these people are a certain set of "special" humans, with much more intelligence and decency then the rest of the trash that the world makes up...nope, sorry don't work that like, I've seen the mightiest and best do the most scoundrel of deeds and I've seen the scoundrel look like the most decent human being...for a second. So as far as idealistic views of romance and love, look around you and how much is really living up to your "expectations", people like to claim LS isn't the real world, well then what it is? a bunch of loonies in a bin? can argue that or maybe just maybe, everybody is pretty much a basket case until they "settle down" and live a seemingly "normal" and decent lifestyle so they can call the others "crazy". And If you're telling me that you would never be with someone that was really desirable and "hot" because they are too hot and desirable for you even if they met your other expectations because you're just not interested...pleeeease! go blow smoke up someone else ___. What a crock of crap, you either are; A) Too insecure to date that kind of a person because it'd make you feel like crap B) Accepted that you never will so you conveniently shun them before they can shun you to feel better about yourself C) Are bitter or jaded because these people didn't give you the kind of attention you wanted and were ignored, or you just go burned or saw them go with someone else who was a big douche/beatch but better looking than you were or more desirable to them. I agree with most of what you have said, even all. Some of us do observe and mature just like you do and learn to recognise quality - which isn't necessarily represented by the 'top 20%'. Of course the key is what anyone's definition of quality is It's about what you are looking for in your life. If you are lucky, you are after substance (which can take much longer to find) if you are unlucky, you will be more attracted to superficial qualities and everyone else's definition of 'top 20' or 'alpha' () I believe that overall we all get what we deserve during our lifetime 1
Leigh 87 Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 People are getting better looking. Actually, people are getting fatter and fatter; over HALF of us are overweight or obese. The only types of people who "look better" than our earlier generations, are: those who can afford cosmetic surgery, or expensive non envasive surgery OR people who have the money for exensive skin care systems to treat their skin with. I digress though; with the advent of computers, I have the knowledge of how to look good through diet and exercise, without expensive products.
Leigh 87 Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 I know lots of guys who are intelligent but can't get girls. -For instance, an online friend of mine is an ivy league student who is having nearly 100k worth of facial reconstructive surgery(jaw osteotemy and le fort 1 procedure) because he's a 22 year old virgin. He's extremely intelligent, 6 3, and articulate. -A very well-spoken doctor who's completely ignored by girls because he's baby faced and 5 8. His masculine faced 6' friend got blow jobs by girls outside of a club. -Another guy who is baby-faced and a bit short at 5 10 of ethnic decent. A top student in his business program in a well respected university. He's also a 21 year old virgin. All of these guys are far more intelligent than me. Why are they in this position? because they're physically unattractive. It may be true on the whole, a "stero" type if you will, but please know: there ARE Exeptions! Some cute girls seriously just want a nice guy who makes them laugh, and treats them well. Some cute girls will give a guy a chance simply because he seams like a great guy! As long as the girl becomes attracted after a few dates, it does not matter to all girls if there is that INSTANT physical attraction. I am attractive enough to get attractive men, prob a 7/10 at best, I know I;m nothing too special, but I have the CHOICE of attractive men willing to date me seriously. I ALWAYS, always pick men based on getting to know them! I am sure if I talked to your baby faced doctor and he was a really funny guy who treated people well, I would find him to be attractive in time. Not every human being has the luxury of making people feel instant attraction to them; I KNOW this, so I prefer to get to know people. My partner became VERY attractive to me over time, when I was not initially that attracted to him!
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