ThaWholigan Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 This has been bandied around on the internet by lots of guys for the last few years. I first saw it at another forum, and now I've seen it here. The theory is this: The top tier of men (aka the 20 per cent), who are either good looking, high status, or rich, or tall (or all or some of the above) are having sex with approximately all or at least 80% or women on the planet, while the rest settle for crumbs or scraps from women who may take pity on them or settle (or whatever). As ludicrous as I believe this to be, a lot of guys on the internet really believe this. I can't say that I subscribe to this view. Unless my vision is clouded because I have grown up around guys whom you could say are in the 20% seeing as they seem to be having a lot of sex with a lot of women, it's definitely nowhere near that vast a majority in terms of sex, dating or relationships. State your thoughts on this, why you think it's true, or why you think it's BS.
january2011 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 I've not heard this before or seen any research about it. It sounds like a variation of the Pareto Principle. I suspect it has gained traction because it seems like a very neat theory that comforts guys who believe in hierarchies and ladders. If you're in the so-called top tier, then you can comfort yourself in your elite status. If you're not, it allows you to explain away your perceived lack of success by blaming an external factor because you think that getting sex from a woman and/or dating successfully is completely outside of your control. That is, you can absolve yourself from taking responsibility for your life choices and your individual circumstances. 12
Bristolius Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 It's barely a hypothesis and can't be tested so it's a useless idea. January's analysis is good as usual. 1
Feelsgoodman Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 The theory is this: The top tier of men (aka the 20 per cent), who are either good looking, high status, or rich, or tall (or all or some of the above) are having sex with approximately all or at least 80% or women on the planet, while the rest settle for crumbs or scraps from women who may take pity on them or settle (or whatever). This is extremely unlikely. Why would men in the top 20% want to bang average and ugly chicks? Top tier men usually go for top tier women.
MrCastle Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Do I think that 20% number is an exact, proven figure? No But to think the playing field for all men is equal and we all have the same chance for success and opportunities is simply disingenuous. It's no different than a highly attractive female controlling the market, and getting more dates and interested men than a girl who is less attractive. 6
Author ThaWholigan Posted July 12, 2012 Author Posted July 12, 2012 This is extremely unlikely. Why would men in the top 20% want to bang average and ugly chicks? Top tier men usually go for top tier women. The argument has been adapted to mean that 80% of women are only interested in the top 20% of men. Forgoing the very real idea that a lot of the attributes that make those men "top tier" are attainable. Maybe not easily, but they can be achieved.
MrCastle Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Forgoing the very real idea that a lot of the attributes that make those men "top tier" are attainable. Maybe not easily, but they can be achieved. You can't acheive height, you can't acheive a good looking face.
Author ThaWholigan Posted July 12, 2012 Author Posted July 12, 2012 Do I think that 20% number is an exact, proven figure? No But to think the playing field for all men is equal and we all have the same chance for success and opportunities is simply disingenuous. It's no different than a highly attractive female controlling the market, and getting more dates and interested men than a girl who is less attractive. For all intents and purposes regarding all men being equal, I can somewhat agree. Where I am different, is that I believe that one can force their own opportunities, whereas there are people who simply don't believe they can. hence why I feel they diminish their own chances of success rather than fate dealing them a bad hand. I feel the same about women to be honest - a highly attractive woman will get more dates than a less attractive girl, but it's not beyond a less attractive girl to be more attractive in my opinion. It all depends on how you view the dating world, and what you want out of it in my opinion. 5
Author ThaWholigan Posted July 12, 2012 Author Posted July 12, 2012 You can't acheive height, you can't acheive a good looking face. I swear, I don't want to read the word height again Height is less of an issue than people think it is. And I think someone's facial attractiveness can be improved, but also that not every face is universally good looking to everyone in my opinion. Yes, I know, I'm too much of an idealist ............ 2
MrCastle Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 For all intents and purposes regarding all men being equal, I can somewhat agree. Where I am different, is that I believe that one can force their own opportunities, whereas there are people who simply don't believe they can. hence why I feel they diminish their own chances of success rather than fate dealing them a bad hand. I feel the same about women to be honest - a highly attractive woman will get more dates than a less attractive girl, but it's not beyond a less attractive girl to be more attractive in my opinion. It all depends on how you view the dating world, and what you want out of it in my opinion. You can force your opportunities, to a degree. But your market is your market. For example: I'm hispanic, and I love dating white women. My market in that area is limited to white girls who don't mind dating hispanics. My market, no matter what I do, will not be the same as a white guy, who's market is all white women. Same with height. Sure you can be short and land a date. But your market is limited to girls who don't care about height. If you're tall, your market is larger, because you've also opened yourself up to girls who only date tall men, as well as those who don't have a height preference. Things like that are unchangable. People who possess some or most of the qualities women look for will always have a larger market. 3
Author ThaWholigan Posted July 12, 2012 Author Posted July 12, 2012 You can force your opportunities, to a degree. But your market is your market. For example: I'm hispanic, and I love dating white women. My market in that area is limited to white girls who don't mind dating hispanics. My market, no matter what I do, will not be the same as a white guy, who's market is all white women. Same with height. Sure you can be short and land a date. But your market is limited to girls who don't care about height. If you're tall, your market is larger, because you've also opened yourself up to girls who only date tall men, as well as those who don't have a height preference. Things like that are unchangable. People who possess some or most of the qualities women look for will always have a larger market. Discarding the 20% theory, and going for a marketplace feel - this is much more accurate to me...... My bro is short and most girls like him. It helps that he's good looking and highly extroverted I suppose.....but his market is pretty large from where I look at it . My market has yet to be explored fully - As far as I know, my market includes more mixed race/white girls than it does black girls, even though I have often been more into black girls generally. Luckily for me, I like mixed girls and am open to dating white girls, so I suppose my market is pretty vast. I think there are ways you can augment yourself to appeal to your target market.
jobaba Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 This has been bandied around on the internet by lots of guys for the last few years. I first saw it at another forum, and now I've seen it here. The theory is this: The top tier of men (aka the 20 per cent), who are either good looking, high status, or rich, or tall (or all or some of the above) are having sex with approximately all or at least 80% or women on the planet, while the rest settle for crumbs or scraps from women who may take pity on them or settle (or whatever). As ludicrous as I believe this to be, a lot of guys on the internet really believe this. I can't say that I subscribe to this view. Unless my vision is clouded because I have grown up around guys whom you could say are in the 20% seeing as they seem to be having a lot of sex with a lot of women, it's definitely nowhere near that vast a majority in terms of sex, dating or relationships. State your thoughts on this, why you think it's true, or why you think it's BS. I'm not sure about the numbers, but I do believe it's true to an extent. Here's why... It's easier for women to get laid because men are horny and less picky about looks. As a guy, hitting on women, how many women have you been rejected by that were in your exact league? In other words, how many women have rejected you who either 'could have been your sister' or you could have been a viable couple walking down the street and nobody bats an eyebrow. I venture to guess this number is high. Now ... if you were a guy, how many women have you turned down that hit on you or liked you who were in the same category as you? Could be your sister? I venture to guess this number is low. Anyway, this is just my theory as to why this is so. It is a little bit easier for women and men blow proportions out to numbers like 80/20. 4
MrCastle Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 I think there are ways you can augment yourself to appeal to your target market. Yes. And the more you improve yourself, the bigger your market becomes. But the things I mentioned are unchangable, and you're subject to whoever is in that market. You may be fat or skinny, and then you can improve yourself and lose weight/work out so now you've added more women to your market, but if you're short, you're still not going to access the "tall men only" market. Improve the things you can improve and don't worry about the things you can't. 2
Ami1uwant Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 There is some truth to this in the idea that those who are ask you describe do have an advantage. They are also the type that tend to use women as conquests where they get to the point of scoring then move on to the next and then womrn are back complaining why he left me.
AD1980 Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 My friend whos good looking has all types of women who swarm to him,he pumps and dumps all types of women including average looking women who obsess over him even though he wants nothing to do with them outside of sex but in their mind they were going out with him So i dont know if the percentages are accurate or close to accurate but i think its closer to accurate with your example then vice versa Most of the non 20% of guys know where they stand because they have to go through tons of rejection before a yes and its usually from a women on their level Women might be more delusional on where they stand because non top 20% women can land a top 20% guy at least for sex which might inflate their ego and where they stand and who they can get
maybealone Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 But to think the playing field for all men is equal and we all have the same chance for success and opportunities is simply disingenuous. I think to be accurate, that statement should read: "But to think the playing field for all men is equal and we all have the same chance for success and opportunities WITH HOT WOMEN is simply disingenuous." I have yet to meet an average looking man that has problems getting dates, LTRs, and wives with average looking women. Now if someone wants to argue that life isn't fair because hot people tend to more frequently date other hot people, they could be right.
manup Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 This is extremely unlikely. Why would men in the top 20% want to bang average and ugly chicks? Top tier men usually go for top tier women. lol this is NOT true, top men bang anything, but will only get into RELATIONSHIPS with top women 6
brahmabull117 Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) When it comes to single guys, this is absolutely true. Among single guys, 20% of the guys (the ones who are charismatic, good looking, desirable) definitely get 80% of the women I have let's say 10 close friends. 2 or 3 of them are banging 3 or 4 women at a time while while the majority of the remaining guys are home alone every Friday night This is a result of women's extremely high standards in all areas. However this does not apply to the overall population because of how many people are in relationships - it only applies to single people lol this is NOT true, top men bang anything, but will only get into RELATIONSHIPS with top women absolutely true Is it exactly 20%? Obviously not but to say there isn't a certain class of men that barely have to make an effort to get laid compared to the endless stream of rejection some men face is delusional. I've seen this throughout my own life, my father and two of his brothers were ( and still are ) extremely successful with women. They're caucasian but have a slight southern European look going on, zero effort on their part one woman after another. This next part holds true for most people I think, from elementary school onward there were always two/three guys or teachers that every single girl had the hots for, basically the other guys might as well just go home and play with themselves. To this day it holds true, again it may not be exactly 20% but it's undeniable that there is a group of men that can pump and dump one after the other. I agree with a lot of what you're saying except for the no effort part Even if you're good looking and charismatic, you still have to put in the work to get laid. I'm a good looking guy and I have no problem getting one night stands but I still have to spend time talking and interacting with women to get them in the sack No guy gets women with no effort unless he's famous like a movie star or an athlete or some other form of massive status Edited July 13, 2012 by brahmabull117 1
Necris Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 I think to be accurate, that statement should read: "But to think the playing field for all men is equal and we all have the same chance for success and opportunities WITH HOT WOMEN is simply disingenuous." I have yet to meet an average looking man that has problems getting dates, LTRs, and wives with average looking women. Now if someone wants to argue that life isn't fair because hot people tend to more frequently date other hot people, they could be right. Yeah... I think he just means women in general, for me at least I can't get a relationship with any woman and no I'm not chasing models, just average and slightly below average in looks women.
brahmabull117 Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) The real reason for this you guys is evolutionary based Women can only have 1 child at a time so they have much much higher standards for their partners while men can spread their seed as much as they want. This is why the top 20% of men are so desired and the remainder have to fight for the scraps. Think of it as a pack of lions - the huge male lions eats as much as he wants and the rest eat the remainder I will say though there is far too much focus on looks in this thread. Personality/social status is more important than appearance for men. A guy with great social skills and average looks will dominate a guy with great looks but average social skills. Height/physique/athleticism mattered a lot more say 15,000 years ago when men had to hunt animals to eat because that's how they provided for the family. Nowadays in our civilized society, your personality/social skills determines your social status in our society and that's the #1 thing that women want Edited July 13, 2012 by brahmabull117
lino Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 I've only heard of this 'theory' written on here, nowhere else. Of course, there are certain types of men which are more appealing to the masses of women but I don't think the numbers are that narrow. This is extremely unlikely. Why would men in the top 20% want to bang average and ugly chicks? Top tier men usually go for top tier women. I agree with this. All the 'top tier' guys I know of who can have virtually any woman they want, aren't going after plain or ugly/fat women... They're constantly involved with gorgeous women.
brahmabull117 Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 I've only heard of this 'theory' written on here, nowhere else. Of course, there are certain types of men which are more appealing to the masses of women but I don't think the numbers are that narrow. I've known single guys who slept with 4 or 5 women at a time (in terms of a rotation) and I know a lot of single guys who are foreveralone The number is true for sure. Maybe you can argue it's more like 30-70% but it's definitely true Keep in mind this is only about single people. All the people in relationships severely distort these numbers All the 'top tier' guys I know of who can have virtually any woman they want, aren't going after plain or ugly/fat women... They're constantly involved with gorgeous women. I got a friend of mine who is a 45 year old executive, good looking dude, single and has a lot of money. He usually bangs hot 25-30 year olds. Last weekend I saw him go to bed with what I would consider a fat girl, one that is not only fat but has an ugly face as well
fishtaco Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 I think it's an incorrect application of a correct statistic. A while back LS women on this board have mentioned that they would not date 80% of the men they meet. And this sounds about right compared to my own very limited pool of experience (let's face it, even if I can claim 3 digits, that still a very small sub set of the population). But realistically, everyone's perception is different. So that top 20% for one person IS NOT the same top 20% for another. I could be one woman's top 20%, but another one's bottom 20%. There are a lot of factors. Personal preference, past experience, right time/right place, etc. Hence multidating and shotgun method makes sense. When you meet a woman that caught your interest, you really don't know where you stand with her. It's not like I can dial in my place in society... I'm at 48.5 percentile, and then I stay there. Nope, it's different each time. 2
Author ThaWholigan Posted July 13, 2012 Author Posted July 13, 2012 I think it's an incorrect application of a correct statistic. A while back LS women on this board have mentioned that they would not date 80% of the men they meet. And this sounds about right compared to my own very limited pool of experience (let's face it, even if I can claim 3 digits, that still a very small sub set of the population). But realistically, everyone's perception is different. So that top 20% for one person IS NOT the same top 20% for another. I could be one woman's top 20%, but another one's bottom 20%. There are a lot of factors. Personal preference, past experience, right time/right place, etc. Hence multidating and shotgun method makes sense. When you meet a woman that caught your interest, you really don't know where you stand with her. It's not like I can dial in my place in society... I'm at 48.5 percentile, and then I stay there. Nope, it's different each time. This is Robin Hood arrow accurate You and Ninjainpajamas = best posters IMO. Ascendotum is underrated too......
brahmabull117 Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 I think it's an incorrect application of a correct statistic. A while back LS women on this board have mentioned that they would not date 80% of the men they meet. And this sounds about right compared to my own very limited pool of experience (let's face it, even if I can claim 3 digits, that still a very small sub set of the population). But realistically, everyone's perception is different. So that top 20% for one person IS NOT the same top 20% for another. I could be one woman's top 20%, but another one's bottom 20%. There are a lot of factors. Personal preference, past experience, right time/right place, etc. Hence multidating and shotgun method makes sense. When you meet a woman that caught your interest, you really don't know where you stand with her. It's not like I can dial in my place in society... I'm at 48.5 percentile, and then I stay there. Nope, it's different each time. but in the end it ends up evening out to that 80-20 number. Sure guy A could be undesirable to woman A but desirable to woman B but guy B could also be desirable to woman A and undesirable to woman B In the end the overall 80-20 rule does apply. The majority of single men are doing horrible with women and are usually very happy to get into relationships because that's their only chances of steady sex
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