Cake eating... Hypocrisy

July 12, 2012

My mm has told me that someone in the family is dying (I know it is true) and that he can't make a decision right now. I have given him ultimatums. He is seeing me twice a day and we are to all intents and purposes together (4 yrs). But we are having major problems and rows as it is more intense than ever, he loves me and I love him. We have been crying a lot. The extended family is starting to really get to me. HER family is very large and there are numerous events. Today he told me that he was going to the nephew's graduation during his busiest period of work. I was amazed. I said he did not have to go and that if they all knew about us, then he would not be going. BS is not going.

It is not HIS blood relative so therefore why did he even want to go, given the hypocrisy of this. He said he had known him all his life. He told me that he does not have a life with the wife (don't question this I know it to be true) but the commitment to the extended family is very big (it is European) but why is he doing this??? He said he wanted to take his child with there but wife can do that can't she? AM I just being jealous or am I giving up hope. I told him he was cherry picking the bits of life he wanted, I keep giving up and ending with him and it is all getting horrible. I am so upset all the time. I told him he can have his old life but not me as well. He was really upset and left.

I met him later and he persuaded me to wait but I have to keep enforcing the ground rules.

He calls me all the time from home and meets me whenever I want virtually. So to all intents and purposes we have a good relationship. He seems me every day including weekends, twice a day.

Some months ago BS found out about us and seems does not want to do anything about it. I have attempted to talk to her several times just to get it over with but she will not answer the phone.

I expect when this relative does die, which is imminent, we shall have another blow out afterwards.

Edited July 12, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

July 12, 2012

I don't question that he doesn't have a relationship with w, if he sees you that often he most likely doesn't. You said if everyone in the family knows about you then why is he going? Are you sure everyone knows? Just because w knows and is willing to accept it doesn't mean the entire family knows. Large extended families can be very difficult. Is it possible they don't really know so by going to a graduation, even if w isn't going, he's able to keep up the facade of having a good marriage? Maybe this is a condition she put upon him: he can do what he likes but he must maintain the image. It's not unheard of. Or, maybe, he just doesn't want to burn any bridges quite yet.

P.S. Ultimatums never work in the long run

July 12, 2012

Thanks AC, no the family does not know, sorry you misread or i was not clear. So yes, it is all about appearances. I hate hypocrisy

July 12, 2012

delirious, I liked your comment about cherry-picking the bits and pieces of his life he attends to.

I just hope you are not one of them.

In a large extended family, someone is always dying, being born, christened or graduating or getting married.

There will NEVER be a proper time to announce a divorce or impending marriage or new relationship if he keeps waiting for the perfect time to have the least impact of extended family.

These are excuses to delay the inevitable, which is YOU.

Your only question should be why? And secondly, how long you are willing to wait for his legitimizing his relationship with you.

It seems like he wants you, but does not want to seem like the bad guy in going out on a limb and choosing you publicly.

You could be waiting for years! There is no "good" or "perfect" time to end one relationship and embark on another, especially if you are dependent of the approval of others.

Not wanting to be the bad guy could forestall his making a hard decision here......for years, if not forever.

July 12, 2012

I don't understand why you are so upset that he's going to his nephews graduation. I can understand being upset that you've been having an affair with him for 4 years now and he's still married, but as long as he's married then obviously he's going to see his family and his in-laws. He's known his nephew for his nephews whole life. Well maybe he really likes his nephew and he wants to be there an important event in his life. Would you stop seeing family that you cared about because it made your MM jealous?

I'm also confused because I took a look at your history and in a recent thread you spoke about a guy you've been dating for 8 months who you met on a dating site and in a thread from a couple of years ago you stated that you were also married. Are you still married? Do you and MM have an arrangement where since he is married you are free to date others? In any case it seems silly to me to get mad at him for going to family events as I would think it would go without saying.

July 12, 2012

My mm has told me that someone in the family is dying (I know it is true) and that he can't make a decision right now. I have given him ultimatums. He is seeing me twice a day and we are to all intents and purposes together (4 yrs). But we are having major problems and rows as it is more intense than ever, he loves me and I love him. We have been crying a lot. The extended family is starting to really get to me. HER family is very large and there are numerous events. Today he told me that he was going to the nephew's graduation during his busiest period of work. I was amazed. I said he did not have to go and that if they all knew about us, then he would not be going. BS is not going.

It is not HIS blood relative so therefore why did he even want to go, given the hypocrisy of this. He said he had known him all his life. He told me that he does not have a life with the wife (don't question this I know it to be true) but the commitment to the extended family is very big (it is European) but why is he doing this??? He said he wanted to take his child with there but wife can do that can't she? AM I just being jealous or am I giving up hope. I told him he was cherry picking the bits of life he wanted, I keep giving up and ending with him and it is all getting horrible. I am so upset all the time. I told him he can have his old life but not me as well. He was really upset and left.

I met him later and he persuaded me to wait but I have to keep enforcing the ground rules.

He calls me all the time from home and meets me whenever I want virtually. So to all intents and purposes we have a good relationship. He seems me every day including weekends, twice a day.

Some months ago BS found out about us and seems does not want to do anything about it. I have attempted to talk to her several times just to get it over with but she will not answer the phone.

I expect when this relative does die, which is imminent, we shall have another blow out afterwards.

Hi Delirious,

I just have a couple questions and comments based on your story.

I think cherry picking, as you mentioned, is part and parcel of many affairs.

What do you mean by everyone knows about you? Have you all come out to the family together or has he told his parents, his wife, his friends, other relatives?

You said you've tried to talk to his wife several times, but she seems not to want to do anything about it. Question: why would it be YOUR job to do this? If your husband had an OW, would you expect HER or HIM to be the one to talk about the relationship and what to do next? I think your MM is ridiculous if he is allowing you to be the one to try to talk to his wife...that's insane and I'm not sure why you've tried to do so. What do you plan to talk to her about?

I don't understand how come the one having the affair, your boyfriend, expects his wife to "do something". That's cowardly. He's having the A, he says he loves you, so HE should talk to his wife, plan to divorce and leave you out of it. But for you or him to expect the BS to what? Kick him out? Or ban him from seeing you? Not sure what you all are expecting.

As for the family, this has come up before in another thread. If you've been married, you take on your spouse's family. Plain and simple. Blood or no blood, that's not what makes you family frankly. I therefore think it is unrealistic to expect that the spouse should have nothing to do with their in laws upon having an A or deciding to be with their AP. Unfortunately, a MP usually has their blood family and their spouse's family. With a single man you have one set of familial obligations to deal with, with a married guy, you have two. This is just reality. My aunt has been divorced and remarried for 13 years, her former mother in law, sister in laws, brother in laws etc are all still a part of her life, esp since she has a child with him. Her current husband embraces this. He did not expect that because she is with him she should act like those people who knew and loved her and are blood relatives of her son are all of a sudden cordial strangers.

In any case, I think you should exercise some patience and allow your MM to disentangle from his life, while understanding some parts may not ever be fully severed. I don't think the OW has a place to mediating any conflicts between the MM and the BS. This is going to be a process and it is up to you to decide if you can deal or it's too much.

July 12, 2012

I don't understand why you are so upset that he's going to his nephews graduation. I can understand being upset that you've been having an affair with him for 4 years now and he's still married, but as long as he's married then obviously he's going to see his family and his in-laws. He's known his nephew for his nephews whole life. Well maybe he really likes his nephew and he wants to be there an important event in his life. Would you stop seeing family that you cared about because it made your MM jealous?

I'm also confused because I took a look at your history and in a recent thread you spoke about a guy you've been dating for 8 months who you met on a dating site and in a thread from a couple of years ago you stated that you were also married. Are you still married? Do you and MM have an arrangement where since he is married you are free to date others? In any case it seems silly to me to get mad at him for going to family events as I would think it would go without saying.

Yes i dated a single guy and MM knows about it. I am not married. I don't get why you are hunting me out. Have you got nothing else to do. Can we stick to the subject thanks or are you looking up my home address :bunny:

July 12, 2012

*sisters in law and brothers in law -- correction

July 12, 2012

Yes i dated a single guy and MM knows about it. I am not married. I don't get why you are hunting me out. Have you got nothing else to do. Can we stick to the subject thanks or are you looking up my home address :bunny:

No one's hunting you out delirious...

Come on.

This is a forum, posters have a history, and a lot of people like to look at their previous posts to get a bigger picture of their current story.

It doesn't take any hunting to click on your profile, neither is it a crime.

July 12, 2012

Hi Delirious,

I just have a couple questions and comments based on your story.

I think cherry picking, as you mentioned, is part and parcel of many affairs.

What do you mean by everyone knows about you? Have you all come out to the family together or has he told his parents, his wife, his friends, other relatives?

You said you've tried to talk to his wife several times, but she seems not to want to do anything about it. Question: why would it be YOUR job to do this? If your husband had an OW, would you expect HER or HIM to be the one to talk about the relationship and what to do next? I think your MM is ridiculous if he is allowing you to be the one to try to talk to his wife...that's insane and I'm not sure why you've tried to do so. What do you plan to talk to her about?

I don't understand how come the one having the affair, your boyfriend, expects his wife to "do something". That's cowardly. He's having the A, he says he loves you, so HE should talk to his wife, plan to divorce and leave you out of it. But for you or him to expect the BS to what? Kick him out? Or ban him from seeing you? Not sure what you all are expecting.

As for the family, this has come up before in another thread. If you've been married, you take on your spouse's family. Plain and simple. Blood or no blood, that's not what makes you family frankly. I therefore think it is unrealistic to expect that the spouse should have nothing to do with their in laws upon having an A or deciding to be with their AP. Unfortunately, a MP usually has their blood family and their spouse's family. With a single man you have one set of familial obligations to deal with, with a married guy, you have two. This is just reality. My aunt has been divorced and remarried for 13 years, her former mother in law, sister in laws, brother in laws etc are all still a part of her life, esp since she has a child with him. Her current husband embraces this. He did not expect that because she is with him she should act like those people who knew and loved her and are blood relatives of her son are all of a sudden cordial strangers.

In any case, I think you should exercise some patience and allow your MM to disentangle from his life, while understanding some parts may not ever be fully severed. I don't think the OW has a place to mediating any conflicts between the MM and the BS. This is going to be a process and it is up to you to decide if you can deal or it's too much.

Sorry Bee are you a BS? It would help to know where you are coming from please.

I wanted to talk to her about what she actually already knows, sorry I don't want to go into detail but she has had proof and he has told her but she refused to discuss it further and maybe she hopes it is over but whatever, she does not seem to be bothered. Really I wanted to do this to put an end to the misery for everyone one way or another. It was a very emotional reaction to everything. I thought BSs on here always advocate telling the BS???? There was no malice involved at all.

Sorry could you clarify this ... you said??

As for the family, this has come up before in another thread. If you've been married, you take on your spouse's family. Plain and simple. Blood or no blood, that's not what makes you family frankly.

This does not make grammatical sense?? And can you point me to the thread please.

July 12, 2012

No one's hunting you out delirious...

Come on.

This is a forum, posters have a history, and a lot of people like to look at their previous posts to get a bigger picture of their current story.

It doesn't take any hunting to click on your profile, neither is it a crime.

No it is not a crime but it is against the forum rules to talk about something other than the actual thread. Otherwise I would have to justify everything and get off topic mmmm? I AM NOT MARRIED AND I DATED A SINGLE GUY FOR A BIT (beat me), and it is no way relates to what i am talking about. Now can we get on with the topic cheers :D:D

July 12, 2012

The ultimatums, what were they?

I have ended it several times and dated a single guy lol

Anyway thanks for the perspective, I can understand why he would want to go now. I feel bad for what I originally thought and will apologise to him for being upset.

Edited July 12, 2012 by delirious

July 12, 2012

Hi delirious,

As you said, he is cherry picking, but why not? If what he's doing is giving him the absolute best of both worlds - on the one hand

You: companionship, love, sex, fun, connection, etc... and on the other

Wife: companionship, love, security, extended family bonds, financial gain,etc

Why would he give that up? The biggest threat to a cheater is that their BS finds out and **** hits the fan. In this case, she found out and doesn't care - so why would he end the marriage that gives him so much, especially when you are willing to fill in the gaps for what he's missing at home?

Honestly, its just smarter for him to not rock the boat.

Unless what you give goes away, then he might have reason to really sit down and think about what he wants IF he HAD to CHOOSE.

Right now, he has no reason to choose and frankly, he would be dumb to give anything up without HAVING to.

see where I'm going with this?

July 12, 2012

My mm has told me that someone in the family is dying (I know it is true) and that he can't make a decision right now. I have given him ultimatums. He is seeing me twice a day and we are to all intents and purposes together (4 yrs). But we are having major problems and rows as it is more intense than ever, he loves me and I love him. We have been crying a lot. The extended family is starting to really get to me. HER family is very large and there are numerous events. Today he told me that he was going to the nephew's graduation during his busiest period of work. I was amazed. I said he did not have to go and that if they all knew about us, then he would not be going. BS is not going.

It is not HIS blood relative so therefore why did he even want to go, given the hypocrisy of this. He said he had known him all his life. He told me that he does not have a life with the wife (don't question this I know it to be true) but the commitment to the extended family is very big (it is European) but why is he doing this??? He said he wanted to take his child with there but wife can do that can't she? AM I just being jealous or am I giving up hope.

You're upset that your MM is going to his nephews graduation.

Without his W.

But taking his child.

Huh?

How about, as your MM said, he's known the boy for his entire life, cares for him and wishes to be there.

He has a large extended family and he has every right to attend.

Honestly, you sound like a nut-job on this.

You get angry because you want him to stay. What gives you the right to demand he doesn't attend? It's his nephew and he wants to go.

Get over it.

I told him he was cherry picking the bits of life he wanted, I keep giving up and ending with him and it is all getting horrible. I am so upset all the time. I told him he can have his old life but not me as well. He was really upset and left.

Does this mean he isn't getting a D?

After this long, why not simply enjoy the A for what it is?

As his W knows, I'm not seeing any reason for him to leave, especially if you go all bunny-boiler on him when he wants to visit his family.

I met him later and he persuaded me to wait but I have to keep enforcing the ground rules.

If you have to keep enforcing the ground rules then he doesn't care about them.

He calls me all the time from home and meets me whenever I want virtually. So to all intents and purposes we have a good relationship. He seems me every day including weekends, twice a day.

So is it a good relationship or are you always having fights.

You have said each....

Some months ago BS found out about us and seems does not want to do anything about it. I have attempted to talk to her several times just to get it over with but she will not answer the phone.

She doesn't have to speak to you.

Since she knows, has SHE filed for D?

Why hasn't your MM filed?

July 12, 2012

Some months ago BS found out about us and seems does not want to do anything about it. I have attempted to talk to her several times just to get it over with but she will not answer the phone.

So if his wife found out, and doesn't want to do anything about it, what is it you are hoping to accomplish by trying to contact her?

July 12, 2012

You're upset that your MM is going to his nephews graduation.
Without his W.
But taking his child.

Huh?

How about, as your MM said, he's known the boy for his entire life, cares for him and wishes to be there.

He has a large extended family and he has every right to attend.

Honestly, you sound like a nut-job on this.
You get angry because you want him to stay. What gives you the right to demand he doesn't attend? It's his nephew and he wants to go.

Get over it.

Does this mean he isn't getting a D?
After this long, why not simply enjoy the A for what it is?
As his W knows, I'm not seeing any reason for him to leave, especially if you go all bunny-boiler on him when he wants to visit his family.

If you have to keep enforcing the ground rules then he doesn't care about them.

So is it a good relationship or are you always having fights.
You have said each....

She doesn't have to speak to you.
Since she knows, has SHE filed for D?
Why hasn't your MM filed?

Anyway thanks for the perspective, I can understand why he would want to go now. I feel bad for what I originally thought and will apologise to him for being upset.

DO KEEP UP JW

July 12, 2012

I see you don't want to answer the question of why you want to contact the wife when she already knows. What do you hope to accomplish, especially knowing she doesn't want to talk to you?

July 13, 2012

It is not HIS blood relative so therefore why did he even want to go, given the hypocrisy of this. He said he had known him all his life. He told me that he does not have a life with the wife (don't question this I know it to be true) but the commitment to the extended family is very big (it is European) but why is he doing this??? He said he wanted to take his child with there but wife can do that can't she? AM I just being jealous or am I giving up hope. I told him he was cherry picking the bits of life he wanted, I keep giving up and ending with him and it is all getting horrible. I am so upset all the time. I told him he can have his old life but not me as well. He was really upset and left.

why is he doing this??? -------------------> He said he had known him all his life.

People create relationships throughout their lives and even if a marriage might one day sever it doesn't mean those bonds break. Even if they were divorced and he wanted to share in the joy of that child's occasion you shouldn't feel negative about it. He went to represent the family and a child he's known since birth. That was truly sweet of him.

Start to change your mindset, he had a life before you came in it. There will be things you won't like but this man has a right to make the choices he does. If you are affected by it that's something you have to work on. If you think because he will one day be yours and hanging out with his ex's side of the family won't happen think again. You might be accompanying him to events with her side of family. You never know. It's up to you if you want to be by his side or not. Get use to the idea. It's not going to be all about you.

Some months ago BS found out about us and seems does not want to do anything about it. I have attempted to talk to her several times just to get it over with but she will not answer the phone.

I'm trying to decipher what you mean by "get it over with." You have no relation with the wife, none. Your relation is with her husband. The only person you speak to is her husband. His wife doesn't have to do anything about anything. She's not sleeping with you her husband is. Don't attempt to speak to her. If you have something to say you say it to the man you are in a relationship with. He is the one responsible for doing something about it. Not her.

July 13, 2012

Sorry Bee are you a BS? It would help to know where you are coming from please.

I wanted to talk to her about what she actually already knows, sorry I don't want to go into detail but she has had proof and he has told her but she refused to discuss it further and maybe she hopes it is over but whatever, she does not seem to be bothered. Really I wanted to do this to put an end to the misery for everyone one way or another. It was a very emotional reaction to everything. I thought BSs on here always advocate telling the BS???? There was no malice involved at all.

Sorry could you clarify this ... you said??
As for the family, this has come up before in another thread. If you've been married, you take on your spouse's family. Plain and simple. Blood or no blood, that's not what makes you family frankly.

This does not make grammatical sense?? And can you point me to the thread please.

I'm not a BS, I'm a former OW.

I've never advocated for an OW calling up the BS to have a chat...you said she knows, so what's there to tell? The misery for everyone will end when your boyfriend handles the situation himself. It takes two to stay in a marriage and if he no longer wants to be with her, she may cry, scream, ignore or disagree but that won't change him leaving if he wants to. It is all on him to choose to leave or not...no one else needs to call. That's his marriage to dissolve and I don't think the OW calling will somehow make things go over more smoothly. Unless you're attempting to force his hand, by making her have an angry reaction and kicking him out?

The thread is closed but it's titled something along the lines of him being on vacation with his kids.

To restate what I said, which you said you didn't understand: When you're married, your spouse's family becomes your own. There is no more HIS family and HER family. Being related by blood is not what determines family. The families often become intertwined, and even after a divorce, people do not simply sever ties with their ex-spouse's families, esp. not the children who know them as their uncle, aunt etc. To expect the ties to be severed is unrealistic. They may get a new gf/wife but one cannot replace their family (which includes in laws) as easily. When you marry someone with kids and you have your own, it becomes a blended family. Likewise, often when you date a man who was married before, you inherit a man with former in laws and relatives on his ex's side that he may still love and interact with as if they were his blood.

Edited July 13, 2012 by MissBee

July 13, 2012

Yes I do understand more now as I said earlier. I have accepted that they are his family too and he loves them so I shall not expect him to come clean to them either.

As for what someone said above, it takes two to end a marriage but what exactly do you call a marriage??? When one spouse is madly and deeply in love and hardly every at home and you know about it and you do nothing to stop it, and you just pretend everything is fine. He has tried to talk it over with her but she refuses to talk to him or me so now leaves everyone in limbo. As I said he cannot leave right now as her father is dying and I would not want him to.

And as someone said above, why are you being defensive, did you not read the posts, because some nutjob called me a nutjob !!!!:D:D

July 13, 2012

Yes I do understand more now as I said earlier. I have accepted that they are his family too and he loves them so I shall not expect him to come clean to them either.

As for what someone said above, it takes two to end a marriage but what exactly do you call a marriage??? When one spouse is madly and deeply in love and hardly every at home and you know about it and you do nothing to stop it, and you just pretend everything is fine. He has tried to talk it over with her but she refuses to talk to him or me so now leaves everyone in limbo. As I said he cannot leave right now as her father is dying and I would not want him to.

And as someone said above, why are you being defensive, did you not read the posts, because some nutjob called me a nutjob !!!!:D:D

delirious - I do want to say, gently, that I agree with the fact that he is where he is and doing what he is doing because he wants to be there and do them. Now the reasoning may not make sense to you and it may not be a desire from a positive space but at the end of the day humans do what they want to do.

It seems that he doesn't want to make a decision, he may not be happy in his life but some people actually don't make decisions to be happy as they are comfortable in a state of indecision and unhappiness as it is what is most familiar to them.

I agree that ultimatums don't work. If you are throwing down the gauntlet do it because this is a core boundary for you and you will walk the talk because that is what is best for you. Outside of that it is empty promises and negate your future words and feelings.

July 13, 2012

Yes I throw down the gauntlet and it really upsets him. I guess I am not being fair. Feel like a complete b ch now He has told me he is not going to make a decision right now so I should be more understanding I guess. I am dreading this person dying, I just don't know how that will go with him

July 13, 2012

Yes I throw down the gauntlet and it really upsets him. I guess I am not being fair. Feel like a complete b ch now He has told me he is not going to make a decision right now so I should be more understanding I guess. I am dreading this person dying, I just don't know how that will go with him

D, some OW are happy to just be the OW.

You sound like you want and need more. Only you can decide when and how more will be available to you.

It doesn't bode well that everytime you bring up the subject he grows angry and begs you to be patient.

Patient for how long, would be my next question, whether he grows angry or not.

Growing angry is a deflection from answering the question.

Remember, the best defense is a good offense. I bet you intend to apologize for wanting more.

Lucky, lucky man.

July 13, 2012

When my uncle died, I travelled hundreds of miles to go to his funeral. He wasn't my blood uncle, but I had known him my whole life. I didn't even know who was and who wasn't blood relatives until I was around eight or so, they were all just my aunties and uncles as far as I was concerned. It wasn't just for show, or hypocrisy or whatever, it was to remember the man I knew and loved as a member of my family. My sister came, and several other of his "non-blood" nieces and nephews.

By the time of his death he had split from my aunt (my mum's sister) for a few years.

Years before, many of my cousins came to my Dad's funeral. For many of them it took a lot of travelling to attend. As far as I could tell, they were there to mourn the man they knew. Not one of them was his blood relation.

All I am saying is that just because they are not blood relatives, that doesn't mean they don't have a relationship that means something to them both.

July 13, 2012

Yes I throw down the gauntlet and it really upsets him. I guess I am not being fair. Feel like a complete b ch now He has told me he is not going to make a decision right now so I should be more understanding I guess. I am dreading this person dying, I just don't know how that will go with him

Re bolded, fair to whom? Sounds to me like you are not being fair to yourself and, instead, are trying to suppress your own needs and desires. Just make sure you are where you want to be and heading in the direction you know you want to go.

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Cake eating... Hypocrisy

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