Is there any hope?? (to people who are married/in LTR's, especially men.)

[raindrop27]

Hi there,

 

I've been reading this forum for a while but have just signed up because I'm desperate for some kind of assurance yet terrified there isn't any hope. I am really bad at keeping things brief so I apologise but please help me if you can!

 

I'm 28 and currently "dating" a guy I love very much ("Richard" - he's 31). We have been best friends for years, particularly close for the last 2 years, and I know he wants to have a relationship with me. I do with him also (I can't actually imagine my life without him) but we are taking it slowly at the minute and nothing is official (I'm happy with this because I feel life I have a lot of ME stuff to sort out right now). We've been in this kind of "dating" phase for about 5 months now but I've been holding back a bit and I don't think he wants to push me - he seems happy to wait (we're not sleeping together or doing anything physical although we were in a FWB arrangement at one point at the end of last year).

 

Over the past couple of months I've been a mess - the more I have come to realise he is exactly what I want from life (I want this to be serious - I want us to be together forever - I want marriage and a baby and everything most other people seem to want), the more scared I am getting that it won't work out in the end.

 

Over the past 2 months I must have spent at least 150 hours on the net (it has become an obsession) reading about how men eventually get bored of their sexual partners, how it isn't "natural" for a man to be sexually attracted to the same person over many years, and how eventually "ALL men" stop desiring their wives and if they don't go out and cheat, they at least fantasize about other women. Apparently this is regardless of how attractive they find their partner in the beginning (he is extremely sexually attracted to me - this I know).

 

I've read studies about how monogamy is a social construct etc, and there are a lot of people (evolutionary psychologists etc and just regular people in open relationships) who believe that you shouldn't expect your partner to be sexually monogamous even if they are socially monogamous - that people should just expect that their partners will eventually want to sleep with other people (especially if your partner is a man), even if they love you and want to stay with you. I've tried to specifically seek out the non-horror stories, the tails of happy marriage and studies that DON'T support these theories and they seem very hard to come by.

 

The thing is, I have sat down and cried my eyes and and thought about this until I am blue in the face - and I know for a fact there is no way I could cope with Richard sleeping with other people if we were together. It just isn't possible for me to accept, no matter how much I read about how it's the natural way to be and how it's just because I've been "socialized" to feel this way. I also am about 99% sure that if I suggested an open relationship he'd be dead against it - he couldn't cope with the thought of me with somebody else either. I also have no desire to ever be with anybody else and know that even if I did I would never do that to him because I could never hurt him and sex isn't that important to me long term - stability, commitment and affection is though.

 

However the fact remains that supposedly the vast majority of men will start to desire other women after being in a relationship for a while, and will stop desiring their girlfriend/wife. The thought of him having sex with me whilst picturing somebody else actually makes me feel sick. The thought of him not wanting sex with me at all, and therefore withdrawing his affection altogether (cuddling, holding hands - things I NEED) because he just doesn't desire me anymore makes me feel completely heartbroken. I keep picturing it happening over and over again in my head.

 

It's not just the sex thing that scares me either. I know the "in love" feeling apparently rarely lasts even though you feel like it will last forever from the start. The only thing in my own life I have to go off is my only serious relationship which lasted for 3 years (he didn't have much of a change to get bored of sex with me since we rarely did it in the last half of the relationship due to sex drive problems from medication I was taking - so it didn't end because he was bored of me sexually). For most of that relationship I was never really "in love" with him (although he was completely infatuated with me at the beginning), but I loved him very much (it was more like a warm, fuzzy, content but also happy feeling) and when he broke up with me I was in complete shock and completely heartbroken. He said he didn't love me like he used to any more but I wonder whether it's because he was confusing "in love" with the long term kind of love.

 

Divorce statistics are terrifying. Apparently the 50% one is exaggerated but the lowest I've heard is 30% and that doesn't take into account the massive amount of people who must stay in their marriage despite being miserable. I've heard countless horror stories on this forum alone but they're all over the internet. The thought of placing my trust in somebody, committing to them and giving them a baby only to have them either have an affair, leave me or just lose their love/desire/affection towards me 2, 5, 10 or 35 years down the line absolutely terrifies me. The older I am when it happens the worse it would be. This applies whether I chose to settle down with Richard (and if I do chose to be with anybody it will be him), or whether it was somebody else, but its particularly hard imagining it happening with me and him because we have such a good friendship and he cares about me and respects me a lot and the thought if him resenting me hurts so much. I just don't want to be on my own and want somebody who will care about me forever - part of me thinks it would be better to keep him as a friend so I don't run the risk of him resenting me, and he would probably always be there for me that way (he's a very loyal friend).

 

I realise to a certain extent that up until recently I bought into the fairy tail girls are fed from an early age, and that you can't expect rainbows and butterfly's throughout your married life and that it does take a certain amount of "work". I also have always known that nothing is 100% guaranteed. I think part of where my "delusion" came from is that in my own environment most of the older generation around me SEEM to be in happy marriages. I have LOTS of aunties and uncles and only one of them are divorced. My parents have been together 38 years, most of my friends parents are still together, Richards parents are still together. I even know a good few people in my age group who have been together between 7 and 11 years and again still SEEM happy. I recently went to see a therapist and she told me it's better to base my reality on what I see around me rather than statistics and things I read on the internet. Is this really true though??

 

What I really need to know is: Is it actually possible for a man to get married and a) Still love and genuinely care for his wife years down the line?? and b) Still be satisfied sexually with her, and for it to not constantly be a "challenge" for him to not seek out other women/not develop a porn addiction??

 

I am a complete mess and could really do with some reassurance. Is it the case that the internet is just full of horror stories (as in people are more likely to write stuff online when they actually have a problem in their life)? Or is there really so little hope for anybody who wants to settle down?

 

I can't talk to Richard about this right now. My heart is screaming out to me to knock on his door, burst into tears, fall in to his arms and tell him everything I've been fearing. But I know this kind of display would probably scare him (this is another reason relationships just seem so hard: You're supposed to be open with each other and not bottle things up because it's "unhealthy" yet apparently being over emotional and showing your feelings too much "puts men off").

 

I will be talking to him about needing security, being scared of getting hurt etc when the time comes for us to take the next step. But it's not time for us to have that conversation yet because I'm just not ready, and I can't tell him how much I've been obsessing over it.

 

I'm currently on the waiting list for more therapy and am upping my dose of anti-depressants (I've been treated for anxiety for years and have always had an obsessive/anxious personality) but am desperate for some reassurance asap as this is the worst period of it I've ever experienced. Things just seem black and I feel like I will never be happy. If I decide not to be with him in case I get hurt, that in itself will hurt me a lot and I don't think I could live with it. But if I decide to give it a go the risk of major heartbreak in the future seems almost inevitable. I would be left alone and scared, and I know for a fact I could never trust again because I would realise everything I've read is correct. I would feel like every time we had sex it was another nail in the coffin - him desiring me that little bit less every time.

 

Happily married monogamous couples - are you out there?

[sunshinegirl]

I read about a third of your post but honestly it's so long that I skipped to the end. To answer your question, yes. I'm in a happily monogamous marriage.

 

I'd suggest you stop reading so much online and focus on Richard - on who he is as a person, what his values are, what kind of character he has, what his history with women is. That will tell you a lot more about your likely long-term happiness with him than a slew of articles making wide sweeping generalizations about an entire gender.

 

Beyond that, you just have to accept that there are no guarantees in life. Sure, my husband *might* cheat on me some day, but I'm confident that that is a slim possibility based on our values, his character, and the health of our marriage. I would never have let the fear of a possible affair scare me away from marrying him. We've just had our first child and we are going as strong as ever, if not stronger.

[SoMovinOn]

Happily married monogamous couples - are you out there?

 

There are some, but, there are more who are not. 50% of all people who get married will get divorced (the rate goes even higher for second and third marriages). Of the 50% who remain married, half of them only do so for religious or other reasons. That leaves, at best, 25% of them who claim to be happy.

 

Part of the problem is the focus on falling in love and getting married to begin with. People want that so much, they don't actually wait to find the right person, but rather, take someone who is close enough with the hopes of molding things into what they want them to be.

[woinlove]

There are some, but, there are more who are not. 50% of all people who get married will get divorced (the rate goes even higher for second and third marriages). Of the 50% who remain married, half of them only do so for religious or other reasons. That leaves, at best, 25% of them who claim to be happy.

 

Part of the problem is the focus on falling in love and getting married to begin with. People want that so much, they don't actually wait to find the right person, but rather, take someone who is close enough with the hopes of molding things into what they want them to be.

 

But in a more optimistic light, the divorce statistics drop to below 20% for couples who were 25 years or older with a college education when they first married and people who were happy on their own are most likely to be happy during their marriage. So there are variables under one's control, that make it likely one will have a long and happy marriage.

[Radu]

I read your entire post, pls read below.

 

Hi there,

 

I've been reading this forum for a while but have just signed up because I'm desperate for some kind of assurance yet terrified there isn't any hope. I am really bad at keeping things brief so I apologise but please help me if you can!

Actually, your post was quite well constructed and logical.

 

I'm 28 and currently "dating" a guy I love very much ("Richard" - he's 31). We have been best friends for years, particularly close for the last 2 years, and I know he wants to have a relationship with me. I do with him also (I can't actually imagine my life without him) but we are taking it slowly at the minute and nothing is official (I'm happy with this because I feel life I have a lot of ME stuff to sort out right now). We've been in this kind of "dating" phase for about 5 months now but I've been holding back a bit and I don't think he wants to push me - he seems happy to wait (we're not sleeping together or doing anything physical although we were in a FWB arrangement at one point at the end of last year).

Why did you stop the sex ?

 

Over the past couple of months I've been a mess - the more I have come to realise he is exactly what I want from life (I want this to be serious - I want us to be together forever - I want marriage and a baby and everything most other people seem to want), the more scared I am getting that it won't work out in the end.

Nobody can guarantee forever, even if divorce was outlawed ppl would still be able to drift apart emotionally.

 

Over the past 2 months I must have spent at least 150 hours on the net (it has become an obsession) reading about how men eventually get bored of their sexual partners, how it isn't "natural" for a man to be sexually attracted to the same person over many years, and how eventually "ALL men" stop desiring their wives and if they don't go out and cheat, they at least fantasize about other women. Apparently this is regardless of how attractive they find their partner in the beginning (he is extremely sexually attracted to me - this I know).

Those studies are and are not true.

It is true that men are more visually stimulated than women and unlike them, we can get horny much faster, we do not have a cycle to figure out when we will be horny.

We do look around, we do notice breasts, butts, legs, bellies, hair, etc ...

But that doesn't mean that we fantasize about cheating on our partners [those of us that are serious and not cheating scum].

Furthermore, women look too at guys, but they are much harder to catch in the act because we have different biologies.

When men look at something they need to focus their eyes on that object. Women can focus on things within 45 degrees of where their eyes lie without moving their eyes or head.

So we are caught in the act more often.

And then men and women use this as a tool in their agenda of either hating men or excusing men [both are bad].

 

I've read studies about how monogamy is a social construct etc, and there are a lot of people (evolutionary psychologists etc and just regular people in open relationships) who believe that you shouldn't expect your partner to be sexually monogamous even if they are socially monogamous - that people should just expect that their partners will eventually want to sleep with other people (especially if your partner is a man), even if they love you and want to stay with you. I've tried to specifically seek out the non-horror stories, the tails of happy marriage and studies that DON'T support these theories and they seem very hard to come by.

Monogamy is a social construct, and evolutionary psychology is real.

However evolutionary psychology just explains where some of our actions/customs come from, from a physical pov.

We [humans] decided on monogamy and it has the upside of enhancing what we feel for one another, the thing we call love which is basically hormones invading our minds, telling us to hysterically attach to the ones we are near.

We can have this dose of drugs by cheating, or having serial monogamy, or we can decide to be with one person who gives us this constant high.

I think the latter is better because that person next to you becomes your lifelong friend, that you trust with anything, who has children with you, and who knows what a perverted f*ck you are in bed and gives you what you want.

I do believe monogamy is under attack though.

 

The thing is, I have sat down and cried my eyes and and thought about this until I am blue in the face - and I know for a fact there is no way I could cope with Richard sleeping with other people if we were together. It just isn't possible for me to accept, no matter how much I read about how it's the natural way to be and how it's just because I've been "socialized" to feel this way. I also am about 99% sure that if I suggested an open relationship he'd be dead against it - he couldn't cope with the thought of me with somebody else either. I also have no desire to ever be with anybody else and know that even if I did I would never do that to him because I could never hurt him and sex isn't that important to me long term - stability, commitment and affection is though.

Ok, so don't be with anyone else, be with him.

 

However the fact remains that supposedly the vast majority of men will start to desire other women after being in a relationship for a while, and will stop desiring their girlfriend/wife. The thought of him having sex with me whilst picturing somebody else actually makes me feel sick. The thought of him not wanting sex with me at all, and therefore withdrawing his affection altogether (cuddling, holding hands - things I NEED) because he just doesn't desire me anymore makes me feel completely heartbroken. I keep picturing it happening over and over again in my head.

I have news for you, women cheat just as much as men.

You have an advantage, men are worse liars overall.

You cannot control him having sex with you and not picturing another woman, this is actually your insecurity again showing btw.

Withdrawing affection can happen and it's a nightmare for men too, we do not want that, most men in the western world are afraid actually that the woman will do this and take away the kids. Yet we still date.

It might come as a great shock, but men have acces to less emotions than women do, and we like your affection.

Female affection for us comes from limited sources, moms, sisters, blood relatives and the woman in our life.

It scares us that the woman might withdraw her affection.

See, we're not really that different.

 

It's not just the sex thing that scares me either. I know the "in love" feeling apparently rarely lasts even though you feel like it will last forever from the start. The only thing in my own life I have to go off is my only serious relationship which lasted for 3 years (he didn't have much of a change to get bored of sex with me since we rarely did it in the last half of the relationship due to sex drive problems from medication I was taking - so it didn't end because he was bored of me sexually). For most of that relationship I was never really "in love" with him (although he was completely infatuated with me at the beginning), but I loved him very much (it was more like a warm, fuzzy, content but also happy feeling) and when he broke up with me I was in complete shock and completely heartbroken. He said he didn't love me like he used to any more but I wonder whether it's because he was confusing "in love" with the long term kind of love.

Love morphs in a way.

It goes from butterflies in the stomach to brotherly love with your best friends, who knows all your secrets, understands you, doesn't judge you, who you have kids with and who you get to f*ck.

The passion can be rekindled, but like with most things, it takes two to tango.

 

Divorce statistics are terrifying. Apparently the 50% one is exaggerated but the lowest I've heard is 30% and that doesn't take into account the massive amount of people who must stay in their marriage despite being miserable. I've heard countless horror stories on this forum alone but they're all over the internet. The thought of placing my trust in somebody, committing to them and giving them a baby only to have them either have an affair, leave me or just lose their love/desire/affection towards me 2, 5, 10 or 35 years down the line absolutely terrifies me. The older I am when it happens the worse it would be. This applies whether I chose to settle down with Richard (and if I do chose to be with anybody it will be him), or whether it was somebody else, but its particularly hard imagining it happening with me and him because we have such a good friendship and he cares about me and respects me a lot and the thought if him resenting me hurts so much. I just don't want to be on my own and want somebody who will care about me forever - part of me thinks it would be better to keep him as a friend so I don't run the risk of him resenting me, and he would probably always be there for me that way (he's a very loyal friend).

Divorce statistics and not actually real.

The ones that are shown are actually nr of marriages vs nr of divorces each yr.

Few statistics follow the marriages through the yrs.

On a personal level i suspect that divorce in the western world is at around 70% [including staying married but unhappy]. Maybe more.

This is for couples followed through 20yrs of their married life.

 

I realise to a certain extent that up until recently I bought into the fairy tail girls are fed from an early age, and that you can't expect rainbows and butterfly's throughout your married life and that it does take a certain amount of "work". I also have always known that nothing is 100% guaranteed. I think part of where my "delusion" came from is that in my own environment most of the older generation around me SEEM to be in happy marriages. I have LOTS of aunties and uncles and only one of them are divorced. My parents have been together 38 years, most of my friends parents are still together, Richards parents are still together. I even know a good few people in my age group who have been together between 7 and 11 years and again still SEEM happy. I recently went to see a therapist and she told me it's better to base my reality on what I see around me rather than statistics and things I read on the internet. Is this really true though??

I bought into that fairy tail too, and i'm a guy.

I used to dream when i was in college about finding my dreamgirl, who would take me out of my shell [very shy and suffered from anxiety brought on by social hypersensitivity], see me for what i am and decide to stay with me.

I read [to my embarassment] romance novels, and watched many romantic comedies [still do].

I still have a collection of about 100 romantic comedies [one of my favorites is Shop Around the Corner made in 1940].

Like you about 1.5yrs ago when i started reading PUA stuff, i got desilusioned badly. This forum actually helpd me a lot as there are some very smart and interesting female posters.

Most of my family has been married for ages as well, divorce is a dirty word in the family tbh, and my parents are from an age where couples solved their problems instead of pushing the red panic button known as divorce.

 

What I really need to know is: Is it actually possible for a man to get married and a) Still love and genuinely care for his wife years down the line?? and b) Still be satisfied sexually with her, and for it to not constantly be a "challenge" for him to not seek out other women/not develop a porn addiction??

Your therapist is right, we tend [all of us] to live in our own reality, our own bubble built about what we let in. By default you were left with the examples you mentioned and reading about these disasters brought negative examples into it.

Remove the examples, or find many counterexamples [what i did].

 

I am a complete mess and could really do with some reassurance. Is it the case that the internet is just full of horror stories (as in people are more likely to write stuff online when they actually have a problem in their life)? Or is there really so little hope for anybody who wants to settle down?

Well, let me put it this way.

Why do news still show carnage, mayhem and destruction when there is also beauty in the world. Sure they show that 'soft' news too, but it's mainly the former.

Carnage sells.

And internet has allowed everyone to have access to a common medium where they can bitch and whine to their heart's content [my cat is thinking of opening up a blog].

 

I can't talk to Richard about this right now. My heart is screaming out to me to knock on his door, burst into tears, fall in to his arms and tell him everything I've been fearing. But I know this kind of display would probably scare him (this is another reason relationships just seem so hard: You're supposed to be open with each other and not bottle things up because it's "unhealthy" yet apparently being over emotional and showing your feelings too much "puts men off").

 

I will be talking to him about needing security, being scared of getting hurt etc when the time comes for us to take the next step. But it's not time for us to have that conversation yet because I'm just not ready, and I can't tell him how much I've been obsessing over it.

Men are simple creatures, do not be so abstract.

If you want men to understand something, say it logical, verbalise exactly what you want and why you want it.

Seriously, there are men out there [me included] that couldn't figure out when girls were hitting on them. Or what body language meant. I had to pick up a book and learn it.

 

I'm currently on the waiting list for more therapy and am upping my dose of anti-depressants (I've been treated for anxiety for years and have always had an obsessive/anxious personality) but am desperate for some reassurance asap as this is the worst period of it I've ever experienced. Things just seem black and I feel like I will never be happy. If I decide not to be with him in case I get hurt, that in itself will hurt me a lot and I don't think I could live with it. But if I decide to give it a go the risk of major heartbreak in the future seems almost inevitable. I would be left alone and scared, and I know for a fact I could never trust again because I would realise everything I've read is correct. I would feel like every time we had sex it was another nail in the coffin - him desiring me that little bit less every time.

 

Happily married monogamous couples - are you out there?

When you did therapy, did they teach you how to handle these dark thoughts or not ?

Rule of thumb is that you shouldn't rely on medication alone [they are sex drive killer anyway].

Like i mentioned above i had anxiety brought on by social hypersensitivity, i got over it by picturing what would happen if the thing i feared the most happened.

I steadily decreased my reaction to these stimuli, i almost had a panic attack once before i started doing this.

 

Have you tried this or reframing the dark thoughts ?

[raindrop27]

Thank you for your replies. I notice nobody who is happily married has responded other than a relative newlywed. I'm confident I will still be in the honeymoon period a year and a half into my marriage, it's more the 5+ year mark that is terrifying me.

 

I read your entire post, pls read below.

 

 

Actually, your post was quite well constructed and logical.

 

Why did you stop the sex ?

 

Well we were best friends and one drunken night decided we would become FWB. It seemed like a good idea at the time (it was a totally stupid idea). He made it clear to me that he wasn't ready for a relationship as was very messed up over a girl he was involved with who left to live with her new boyfriend in another county. I know this wasn't him making excuses as I went through the whole experience with him and it wasn't pretty and left him quite messed up. Anyway after sleeping together for a couple of months I decided to put a stop to it because I had developed feelings and he still wasn't ready for a relationship. Soon after he told me he realised him hanging onto this girl was interfering with other things in his life and that he'd put it all behind him. He doesn't have any issues with her anymore, he's over it, but I'm not interested in casual sex outside of a relationship anymore, especially not with somebody I have feelings for. I need to wait until there's a commitment.

 

Nobody can guarantee forever, even if divorce was outlawed ppl would still be able to drift apart emotionally.

 

I realise this and always have, I just didn't think the odds were anywhere near as against people as they are.

 

 

Monogamy is a social construct, and evolutionary psychology is real.

However evolutionary psychology just explains where some of our actions/customs come from, from a physical pov.

We [humans] decided on monogamy and it has the upside of enhancing what we feel for one another

 

This helps a bit, thank you.

 

 

I think the latter is better because that person next to you becomes your lifelong friend, that you trust with anything, who has children with you, and who knows what a perverted f*ck you are in bed and gives you what you want.

I do believe monogamy is under attack though.

 

I agree on both counts

 

I am a bit confused about these 2 statements as they seem to contradict each other:

 

- We do look around, we do notice breasts, butts, legs, bellies, hair, etc ...

But that doesn't mean that we fantasize about cheating on our partners [those of us that are serious and not cheating scum].

 

- You cannot control him having sex with you and not picturing another woman, this is actually your insecurity again showing btw.

 

Are you saying that most men fantasize about other women while having sex with us? Also, are you speaking from experience? I can't help but feel very hurt by this.

 

 

Love morphs in a way.

It goes from butterflies in the stomach to brotherly love with your best friends, who knows all your secrets, understands you, doesn't judge you, who you have kids with and who you get to f*ck.

 

Again, do you speak from experience?

 

On a personal level i suspect that divorce in the western world is at around 70% [including staying married but unhappy]. Maybe more.

This is for couples followed through 20yrs of their married life.

 

Great Does shared history mean nothing to people?

 

Your therapist is right, we tend [all of us] to live in our own reality, our own bubble built about what we let in. By default you were left with the examples you mentioned and reading about these disasters brought negative examples into it.

 

But which reality is more realistic??

 

Remove the examples, or find many counterexamples [what i did].

 

I've tried doing this but it doesn't seem to work as I just feel like I'm lying to myself

 

Well, let me put it this way.

Why do news still show carnage, mayhem and destruction when there is also beauty in the world. Sure they show that 'soft' news too, but it's mainly the former.

 

You seem to imply here that it's not as bad as I think, yet you say you think the divorce rate is 70%+, which is WORSE than I thought

 

Men are simple creatures, do not be so abstract.

If you want men to understand something, say it logical, verbalise exactly what you want and why you want it.

 

Yes I plan on doing this without breaking down

 

 

When you did therapy, did they teach you how to handle these dark thoughts or not ?

 

I only had one therapy session so far. I made an appointment with the first therapist available out of deperation and other than the thing she said about what I see around me being a better indicator of things, she was no help whatsoever and gave me no techniques of any kind. I'm now on the list for CBT.

 

Rule of thumb is that you shouldn't rely on medication alone [they are sex drive killer anyway].

 

I know but things are so bad right now I feel like I need it

 

Like i mentioned above i had anxiety brought on by social hypersensitivity, i got over it by picturing what would happen if the thing i feared the most happened.

I steadily decreased my reaction to these stimuli, i almost had a panic attack once before i started doing this.

 

Have you tried this or reframing the dark thoughts ?

 

I've tried doing this yes. I've tried everything. I've imagined the worse case scenario and it's brought on panic attacks, and made me feel sick. It just seems to make things worse. Thank you for your detailed response.

[BetrayedH]

I am not in a happily monogamous marriage (my wife cheated and filed for divorce) but if you are asking if men can be happy with their wives forever, I would say yes, absolutely. I dated my wife for 5 years before we got engaged, another year and a half before we were married and then were married for 12. Altogether I spent 19 years with her. While I am a fairly typical male (I appreciate a hot body when I see one, occassionally indulge in watching porn, and probably hit a strip club with the guys about once a year), I can't say that I ever thought of anyone else while I was in bed with my wife. Seriously, never.

 

I can also say that I was always perfectly attracted to my wife even as she put on some weight in the latter years and seriously never had a desire to cheat on her. "Love" certainly morphs and other priorities in life get in the way of creating romance as much as before but I can say with certainty that if my wife had not cheated on me, I would have happily stayed with her for life. It's possible. You won't know til you try. There are no guarantees. Try to pick the right man and never take them for granted.

 

I hope you take the plunge with Richard and live happily ever after.

[mem11363]

Rain,

You dated a guy who was totally in love with you - and you lost your desire for sex after 18 months due to medication. So for 1.5 years physically it was good and then for 1.5 years he was likely feeling crazily rejected. And you say "he didn't get bored with sex". True - he was likely losing his mind from feeling rejected. Not bored - wracked by intense anxiety and frustration.

 

Here's the deal: I am in year 23 of a great marriage - with great sex. No cheating on either side. No desire to cheat for me. Plenty of chances.

 

Why aren't you sleeping with your current man? Seems odd to me.

Edited July 12, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed quote

[raindrop27]

I am not in a happily monogamous marriage (my wife cheated and filed for divorce) but if you are asking if men can be happy with their wives forever, I would say yes, absolutely. I dated my wife for 5 years before we got engaged, another year and a half before we were married and then were married for 12. Altogether I spent 19 years with her. While I am a fairly typical male (I appreciate a hot body when I see one, occassionally indulge in watching porn, and probably hit a strip club with the guys about once a year), I can't say that I ever thought of anyone else while I was in bed with my wife. Seriously, never.

 

I can also say that I was always perfectly attracted to my wife even as she put on some weight in the latter years and seriously never had a desire to cheat on her. "Love" certainly morphs and other priorities in life get in the way of creating romance as much as before but I can say with certainty that if my wife had not cheated on me, I would have happily stayed with her for life. It's possible. You won't know til you try. There are no guarantees. Try to pick the right man and never take them for granted.

 

I hope you take the plunge with Richard and live happily ever after.

 

Thank you. This has helped a bit. Can I ask were you having regular sex with her before the affair/before you found out about it? Because if you were, and didn't get bored of her, that does say something about the "men always get bored" theory.

 

I'd suggest you stop reading so much online and focus on Richard - on who he is as a person, what his values are, what kind of character he has, what his history with women is. That will tell you a lot more about your likely long-term happiness with him than a slew of articles making wide sweeping generalizations about an entire gender.

 

I think part of my problem is that I'm not actually sure about his character in terms of whether he'd cheat on me years down the line. The things I have to go off:

 

Yes we are best friends, and he is a very loyal friend to me, and to his other friends, and he definitely cares about my well being/feelings and those of others he's close to. He is always "there" for people etc. However, since I've known him (7 years) he's never really had a long term relationship which is worrying?? He's not massively "sought after" although obviously I find him attractive. The girl he was messed up over, he was never in an actual relationship with. She was a long-term FWB (they were sleeping together on and off for about 6 years, but were also good friends). It wasn't until near the end of this that he started developing feelings for her and to cut a long story short she really messed him around. Before he met her (around the same time he met me) I have no idea what his relationship history is as we've never talked about it. I'd like to ask him but don't want to feel like I'm interrogating him. One of the things that rings alarm bells for me, in terms of his "character" is something he said to me when we were in the FWB arrangement. I brought up the idea of us making a go of things long term and he said he couldn't because it wouldn't last, and he couldn't hurt me like that. I asked him why it wouldn't last and his first reason was that he was still a mess because of the girl (definitely the case and I was stupid for suggesting the relationship thing at that time). But when I asked him if that was the only reason he said "it wouldn't last very long because I know me". At the time I thought nothing of it but now I keep thinking, does that mean he gets bored easily? He sort of implied that things would be different if he was "in love" with me (which I'm pretty sure he is now). He's also implied to me before that he's cheated on somebody in the past (or poss more than one person) but many years ago (I'm guessing non-serious relationships, when he was young). But still that's a bit worrying?

 

I don't know, it's quite hard to judge his character which sounds ridiculous considering he's my best friend. All of our heart to hearts in the past have either been in relation to his "ex" breaking his heart, or my relationship with my ex.

 

Is it time to ask him some probing questions? I'm scared.

[Radu]

Thank you for your replies. I notice nobody who is happily married has responded other than a relative newlywed. I'm confident I will still be in the honeymoon period a year and a half into my marriage, it's more the 5+ year mark that is terrifying me.

 

I'll try to reply to your questions.

I am a bit confused about these 2 statements as they seem to contradict each other:

 

- We do look around, we do notice breasts, butts, legs, bellies, hair, etc ...

But that doesn't mean that we fantasize about cheating on our partners [those of us that are serious and not cheating scum].

 

- You cannot control him having sex with you and not picturing another woman, this is actually your insecurity again showing btw.

 

I was trying to say that we do notice when we see a supermodel strutting in front of us, we're not blind.

Because of our different biology, we will get noticed when we look [we need to focus eyes on something to see it].

That doesn't mean we would trade the woman next to us for that.

The soul that we see in a woman makes her more hot to us than she appears to others.

Just look in the threads here where men caught their wives cheating, and how long they needed to get over them. Some of them were married for 15yrs and were miserable for a few good yrs before moving on, despite being treated like crap, many of them did not cheat on their wives either and they still were in love with their partners.

 

Love morphs in a way.

It goes from butterflies in the stomach to brotherly love with your best friends, who knows all your secrets, understands you, doesn't judge you, who you have kids with and who you get to f*ck.

 

Again, do you speak from experience?

 

Experience no, but i have talked with a lot of older married couples.

And this is what the women told me.

 

Your therapist is right, we tend [all of us] to live in our own reality, our own bubble built about what we let in. By default you were left with the examples you mentioned and reading about these disasters brought negative examples into it.

 

But which reality is more realistic??

 

There is no right reality because nobody got to that point, seeing the world for what it is means to have no emotions and to let go of your past completely.

Nobody has achieved that.

And in the end, both realities are valid because they are based on what that person wants to see.

Just like with you right now, your mind refuses proof of the countrary and wants only to see the bad.

 

Well, let me put it this way.

Why do news still show carnage, mayhem and destruction when there is also beauty in the world. Sure they show that 'soft' news too, but it's mainly the former.

 

You seem to imply here that it's not as bad as I think, yet you say you think the divorce rate is 70%+, which is WORSE than I thought

 

Saying it or not saying it doesn't remove it.

It's better to be warned and prepared for it.

Most couples don't make it nowadays because they don't take it seriously.

You have immature ppl who want other ppl to fill in the holes they have, to work for them, entitled ppl who believe they deserve everything they get.

You are seeing the ammount of divorces now because now they have the option of ending the marriage which they didn't have in the past.

 

I'm not in the mental field, so pls take it with a grain of salt ... i would try to desensitize myself to my fears. It worked for me.

 

Bottom line is, guys fear what you fear too.

Just find yourself a guy who can talk things through, takes your input and comes from a family that has strong morals [and which has strong morals himself].

As for the rest, just try to improve yourself, like you are doing right now, by writing this thread.

[BetrayedH]

To answer your question about my sex life prior to my wife's affair...

 

Well, it morphs over time, too. Prior to having kids, I don't recall any sexual strife for us. I was just plain happy. After kids, I would say that my wife turned into a mother rather than a wife. Sex dropped off dramatically and stayed that way for 7 years. I tried everything I could think of since I was still interested. Ut she wasn't. I was a tough topic for us but with the marriage being good otherwise, I accepted that frustration and hoped for better days. Then it did improve, which turned out to be during her affair. She went from a begrudging once a month to twice a week. In her mind, she was trying to give her marriage a chance during her affair. Blech.

 

Anyway, you weren't asking about her. My point is that I loved my wife all ghe way thru. By the way, I spent about another 7 months trying to forgive her infidelity (only to find that she was still lying). Some guys can clearly be faithful for life even in the face of difficult problems. I expected there would be problems.

 

Oh, and yes, keep talking to the guy and keep asking questions. You MUST have the courage to confront anything that could build resentment. The cheaters are the ones that are cowards. Instead of confronting or leaving, they lie, hide, and cheat.

[Got it]

raindrop - I think you have to look at is also your sense of security and control. You cannot control how others are going to act. There are no guarantees in life. You have to know that no matter what YOU WILL BE OKAY. You are not abandoned, you can rely on yourself that no matter what happens with your relationships because you have developed your inner core and inner strength you will weather all with no major issues.

 

Once you learn to trust yourself, now that you can be your own best advocate that you will find peace and happiness in your relationships.

 

The questions and anxiety you are peppering about men you can flip around to yourself. How do you know you can offer, beyond a shadow of doubt that you will never do, act, or feel towards your SO any differently? You can't know. You can hope and anticipate and work on making sure that if x starts to happen you will do y but you don't know. You just adjust with time and stay flexible, honest, open, and communicate.

 

With religions faith and marriage you are making a blind leap. You are trusting something that you don't have full control over, that you aren't sure if it is true or real but you are throwing your heart over it and following. That is hard and scary! It is hard to be that vulnerable on something you can't quantify or control but it has to be done nevertheless.

 

And all of that comes back to knowing that while it adds value to your life you are okay without it.

 

Your relationships do not define you. They enhance you, they enrich you but you are not lost without them and you are okay if they don't work out.

 

I recommend reading "The Present" by Spencer Johnson. That might help you focus on today and not yesterday or tomorrow; areas you have no control.

 

I am divorced, I married my high school sweetheart. While we are divorced you know I greatly enjoyed the relationship, the marriage and him. It was a great experience. I look forward to marrying again as well. I like me in a partnership because of what I can add to another's life. But I like me with or without the relationship.

[sunshinegirl]

Thank you. This has helped a bit. Can I ask were you having regular sex with her before the affair/before you found out about it? Because if you were, and didn't get bored of her, that does say something about the "men always get bored" theory.

 

 

 

I think part of my problem is that I'm not actually sure about his character in terms of whether he'd cheat on me years down the line. The things I have to go off:

 

Yes we are best friends, and he is a very loyal friend to me, and to his other friends, and he definitely cares about my well being/feelings and those of others he's close to. He is always "there" for people etc. However, since I've known him (7 years) he's never really had a long term relationship which is worrying?? He's not massively "sought after" although obviously I find him attractive. The girl he was messed up over, he was never in an actual relationship with. She was a long-term FWB (they were sleeping together on and off for about 6 years, but were also good friends). It wasn't until near the end of this that he started developing feelings for her and to cut a long story short she really messed him around. Before he met her (around the same time he met me) I have no idea what his relationship history is as we've never talked about it. I'd like to ask him but don't want to feel like I'm interrogating him. One of the things that rings alarm bells for me, in terms of his "character" is something he said to me when we were in the FWB arrangement. I brought up the idea of us making a go of things long term and he said he couldn't because it wouldn't last, and he couldn't hurt me like that. I asked him why it wouldn't last and his first reason was that he was still a mess because of the girl (definitely the case and I was stupid for suggesting the relationship thing at that time). But when I asked him if that was the only reason he said "it wouldn't last very long because I know me". At the time I thought nothing of it but now I keep thinking, does that mean he gets bored easily? He sort of implied that things would be different if he was "in love" with me (which I'm pretty sure he is now). He's also implied to me before that he's cheated on somebody in the past (or poss more than one person) but many years ago (I'm guessing non-serious relationships, when he was young). But still that's a bit worrying?

 

I don't know, it's quite hard to judge his character which sounds ridiculous considering he's my best friend. All of our heart to hearts in the past have either been in relation to his "ex" breaking his heart, or my relationship with my ex.

Is it time to ask him some probing questions? I'm scared.

 

One of the signs you're in a relationship that could go the distance is the ease with which you communicate with each other. I knew my H and I were a good fit when, from early on, we could talk to each other about anything. It's concerning that you are hesitant to talk about matters that should be open points of discussion in a healthy relationship.

Edited July 12, 2012 by sunshinegirl

[jwi71]

I was with my now xWW for 15 years. I have since remarried

During those 15 years I:

 

Watched porn (jerked off to it as well)

Stare at the cute azz in tight shorts on the treadmill in front of me

Went to "breastaraunts" (hooters and the like)

Jerked off

Made love to her wishing it was Halle Berry

Made love to her as her (the vast majority was this)

Went to watch UFC and made crude jokes about boning the scantily clad waitresses

NEVER cheated or touched another woman

 

Boys will be boys and that litany you posted is, simply, boys being boys.

 

I would NOT obsess over it. I would not worry about it. It has NOTHING to do with you.

 

It's ONLY an issue if he acts on it with other women - or is flagrantly rude by ogling the waitress with you there.

 

Otherwise, forget it. It doesn't devalue you at all.

[pteromom]

I am definitely not happily married.

 

But looking back at all the red flags I should have seen, there are a few major traits a person should have in order to make them worthy of marrying:

 

1. They respect you, ALWAYS. This means they talk to you (and everyone else) kindly. It means they don't ogle other women blatantly in front of you (if you don't like it). It means they respect your boundaries, hobbies, friendships, and opinions.

 

2. They listen to you, ALWAYS. Even when they don't agree with you, they listen and try to understand your point of view. They are able to communicate with you and work with you on resolving issues.

 

3. They are happy and don't require external sources of happiness. This one is tricky, but important. If someone always NEEDS something from you in order to be happy, it is very draining. Dealing with someone who is always sad and/or negative is very draining too. Look for someone who is happy and secure with himself.

 

You can predict who may and may not cheat, based on their level of integrity and whether their happiness comes from external sources, but you still can't predict it with 100% accuracy. Even a guy who loves you and is a good guy can work with a woman who he clicks with and fall for her.

 

What you can do is trust yourself. Know that no matter what someone else does, you will be ok, and you'll get through it. Don't let fear stop you from moving forward in your life, but be smart about how you move forward and who you move forward with.

[Ami1uwant]

There are some, but, there are more who are not. 50% of all people who get married will get divorced (the rate goes even higher for second and third marriages). QUOTE]

 

On the 2nd/3rd marriages that date is skewed because they dont separate out the LArry Kings of the world who are serial marriers which is a social/psychological problem

 

They also dont eliminate the marriages done that were mistakes donte for the wrong reasons or when they were really too young.

[BetheButterfly]

Hi there,

 

I've been reading this forum for a while but have just signed up because I'm desperate for some kind of assurance yet terrified there isn't any hope. I am really bad at keeping things brief so I apologise but please help me if you can!

 

I'm 28 and currently "dating" a guy I love very much ("Richard" - he's 31). We have been best friends for years, particularly close for the last 2 years, and I know he wants to have a relationship with me. I do with him also (I can't actually imagine my life without him) but we are taking it slowly at the minute and nothing is official (I'm happy with this because I feel life I have a lot of ME stuff to sort out right now). We've been in this kind of "dating" phase for about 5 months now but I've been holding back a bit and I don't think he wants to push me - he seems happy to wait (we're not sleeping together or doing anything physical although we were in a FWB arrangement at one point at the end of last year).

 

Over the past couple of months I've been a mess - the more I have come to realise he is exactly what I want from life (I want this to be serious - I want us to be together forever - I want marriage and a baby and everything most other people seem to want), the more scared I am getting that it won't work out in the end.

 

Over the past 2 months I must have spent at least 150 hours on the net (it has become an obsession) reading about how men eventually get bored of their sexual partners, how it isn't "natural" for a man to be sexually attracted to the same person over many years, and how eventually "ALL men" stop desiring their wives and if they don't go out and cheat, they at least fantasize about other women. Apparently this is regardless of how attractive they find their partner in the beginning (he is extremely sexually attracted to me - this I know).

 

Yikes ok. You are addicted to the net! You need to curb that so it doesn't take over your life (I know from experience.)

 

It is not true that all men stop desiring their wives. My parents just celebrated their 38th wedding anniversary and are very much still in love. However, it is true that both people in a couple need to take care of their bodies by eating healthy and working out.

 

I've read studies about how monogamy is a social construct etc, and there are a lot of people (evolutionary psychologists etc and just regular people in open relationships) who believe that you shouldn't expect your partner to be sexually monogamous even if they are socially monogamous - that people should just expect that their partners will eventually want to sleep with other people (especially if your partner is a man), even if they love you and want to stay with you. I've tried to specifically seek out the non-horror stories, the tails of happy marriage and studies that DON'T support these theories and they seem very hard to come by.

 

Being in a committed and happy marriage is a choice that both partners must make and do wholeheartedly. It involves way more than sex. It involves a deeper connection and friendship that allows 2 people to live together and instead of getting mad at each others' differences, enjoys those differences.

 

Marriage is a social construct because the ideal marriage is a great environment for raising children. Marriages are teams of adults that protect and care for each other, as well as for their young. Marriages are therefore a family construct, and family is a blessing when the people in the family love each other and take good care of each other. This causes the group of the family, united by marriages, to thrive and prosper.

 

The thing is, I have sat down and cried my eyes and and thought about this until I am blue in the face - and I know for a fact there is no way I could cope with Richard sleeping with other people if we were together. It just isn't possible for me to accept, no matter how much I read about how it's the natural way to be and how it's just because I've been "socialized" to feel this way. I also am about 99% sure that if I suggested an open relationship he'd be dead against it - he couldn't cope with the thought of me with somebody else either. I also have no desire to ever be with anybody else and know that even if I did I would never do that to him because I could never hurt him and sex isn't that important to me long term - stability, commitment and affection is though.

 

Do not be afraid. A part of love = not being afraid to care for another being deeply. Now, I have no idea what Richard will do. However, I would encourage you to tell him you are afraid of him sleeping with other people and you don't want to be hurt. That sounds like you don't want the emotional connection you have to him to be broken, and that's fine. It would crush me as well if my hubby had sex with other people. However, I trust him not to. Does that mean it's a guarantee he won't? No. But, I trust him when he told me, "I will be faithful to you." I know him to be a man of his word. He also trusts me to be faithful to him. I strive to be a woman of my word. Don't be afraid. Love = trust

 

However the fact remains that supposedly the vast majority of men will start to desire other women after being in a relationship for a while, and will stop desiring their girlfriend/wife. The thought of him having sex with me whilst picturing somebody else actually makes me feel sick. The thought of him not wanting sex with me at all, and therefore withdrawing his affection altogether (cuddling, holding hands - things I NEED) because he just doesn't desire me anymore makes me feel completely heartbroken. I keep picturing it happening over and over again in my head.

 

You are hurting yourself. Please be positive instead of negative. What you are doing is like ramming your head again and again into the wall. Why do that?

 

It's not just the sex thing that scares me either. I know the "in love" feeling apparently rarely lasts even though you feel like it will last forever from the start. The only thing in my own life I have to go off is my only serious relationship which lasted for 3 years (he didn't have much of a change to get bored of sex with me since we rarely did it in the last half of the relationship due to sex drive problems from medication I was taking - so it didn't end because he was bored of me sexually). For most of that relationship I was never really "in love" with him (although he was completely infatuated with me at the beginning), but I loved him very much (it was more like a warm, fuzzy, content but also happy feeling) and when he broke up with me I was in complete shock and completely heartbroken. He said he didn't love me like he used to any more but I wonder whether it's because he was confusing "in love" with the long term kind of love.

 

Divorce statistics are terrifying. Apparently the 50% one is exaggerated but the lowest I've heard is 30% and that doesn't take into account the massive amount of people who must stay in their marriage despite being miserable. I've heard countless horror stories on this forum alone but they're all over the internet. The thought of placing my trust in somebody, committing to them and giving them a baby only to have them either have an affair, leave me or just lose their love/desire/affection towards me 2, 5, 10 or 35 years down the line absolutely terrifies me. The older I am when it happens the worse it would be. This applies whether I chose to settle down with Richard (and if I do chose to be with anybody it will be him), or whether it was somebody else, but its particularly hard imagining it happening with me and him because we have such a good friendship and he cares about me and respects me a lot and the thought if him resenting me hurts so much. I just don't want to be on my own and want somebody who will care about me forever - part of me thinks it would be better to keep him as a friend so I don't run the risk of him resenting me, and he would probably always be there for me that way (he's a very loyal friend).

 

He sounds like a wonderful man. As for what you want, it is great that you know what you want. Have you communicated what you want to him, and has he communicated what he wants to you? Remember too that love does not just mean what you get from him, but also what he gets from you. Love cares about the other person. It's give and take basically, not all giving or all taking.

 

I realise to a certain extent that up until recently I bought into the fairy tail girls are fed from an early age, and that you can't expect rainbows and butterfly's throughout your married life and that it does take a certain amount of "work". I also have always known that nothing is 100% guaranteed. I think part of where my "delusion" came from is that in my own environment most of the older generation around me SEEM to be in happy marriages. I have LOTS of aunties and uncles and only one of them are divorced. My parents have been together 38 years, most of my friends parents are still together, Richards parents are still together. I even know a good few people in my age group who have been together between 7 and 11 years and again still SEEM happy. I recently went to see a therapist and she told me it's better to base my reality on what I see around me rather than statistics and things I read on the internet. Is this really true though??

 

I agree with the therapist. My parents just celebrated their 38 year anniversary!!! Cool!

 

What I really need to know is: Is it actually possible for a man to get married and a) Still love and genuinely care for his wife years down the line?? and b) Still be satisfied sexually with her, and for it to not constantly be a "challenge" for him to not seek out other women/not develop a porn addiction??

 

Yes!!!

 

And, by the way, it is also possible for a person to get free from a porn addiction. For example, my Dad got addicted to porn when he was a kid. Isn't that horrible? He found a magazine in the desert and got hooked. My Mom had no idea until after they got married when she found a magazine. She was so hurt. My Dad's addiction however had nothing to do with her, since he had gotten addicted way before even meeting her. However, he understood that it hurt my Mom a lot, and he asked God to help him to get free. The AA program is great at helping people get free from alcohol and drugs, as well as other addictions. My Dad has been free from porn addiction for a long time and encourages other men to not be entrapped in it. So, there are men who know understand how porn is hurtful and who strive for freedom from it. There are other men like my hubby who has never been attracted to porn.

 

There are other men who like porn and could care less about what the woman or women in their life think. There are also many women nowadays... the numbers are growing, who accept porn as normal and ok. Basically, every person is different in how they relate to porn. So, I would encourage you to talk to Richard about it and see what his stance is. Encourage him to be honest and be clear as to how you feel about the subject, k?

 

 

I am a complete mess and could really do with some reassurance. Is it the case that the internet is just full of horror stories (as in people are more likely to write stuff online when they actually have a problem in their life)? Or is there really so little hope for anybody who wants to settle down?

 

It is true that most people are more likely to write stuff online when they actually have a problem in their life. I am different in that I love to write and read, which is why I'm on this forum. There are other men and women on this forum who enjoy writing/reading as well and write about their awesome experiences, including Donnamaybe. However, it is true that most writers are going through hard times and are seeking counsel.

 

I can't talk to Richard about this right now. My heart is screaming out to me to knock on his door, burst into tears, fall in to his arms and tell him everything I've been fearing. But I know this kind of display would probably scare him (this is another reason relationships just seem so hard: You're supposed to be open with each other and not bottle things up because it's "unhealthy" yet apparently being over emotional and showing your feelings too much "puts men off").

 

When you can, make sure to keep calm and outline simply your fears to him. He deserves to know. I hope he is a wonderful man who takes your fears into account and strives to let you know just how much he loves you.

 

I will be talking to him about needing security, being scared of getting hurt etc when the time comes for us to take the next step. But it's not time for us to have that conversation yet because I'm just not ready, and I can't tell him how much I've been obsessing over it.

 

OK

 

I'm currently on the waiting list for more therapy and am upping my dose of anti-depressants (I've been treated for anxiety for years and have always had an obsessive/anxious personality) but am desperate for some reassurance asap as this is the worst period of it I've ever experienced. Things just seem black and I feel like I will never be happy. If I decide not to be with him in case I get hurt, that in itself will hurt me a lot and I don't think I could live with it. But if I decide to give it a go the risk of major heartbreak in the future seems almost inevitable. I would be left alone and scared, and I know for a fact I could never trust again because I would realise everything I've read is correct. I would feel like every time we had sex it was another nail in the coffin - him desiring me that little bit less every time.

 

You need to train yourself to think positive thoughts. Instead of obsessing over fears, enjoy the beauty of the day. When you go outside, do you listen to the birds? (Are there birds where you live?) Do you take into account the flowers? (Are there flowers where you live?) I suggest STOP with the negative thoughts and TRAIN YOURSELF TO SEE THE BEAUTY IN THE WORLD. You will feel so much better and be healthier too.

 

Happily married monogamous couples - are you out there?

 

I am! I have only been married for almost a year though, but I do trust that my hubby and I will grow old together!

 

Hugs and please think positively!

 

Beauty is reality... it's not just a dream.

[raindrop27]

Mem, I must have missed your post when you first submitted it.

 

Rain,

You dated a guy who was totally in love with you - and you lost your desire for sex after 18 months due to medication. So for 1.5 years physically it was good and then for 1.5 years he was likely feeling crazily rejected. And you say "he didn't get bored with sex". True - he was likely losing his mind from feeling rejected. Not bored - wracked by intense anxiety and frustration.

 

No he broke up with me for complicated reasons unrelated to sex. I did ask him when he first ended it about this and he said it had absolutely nothing to do with it. However, I know I would never be in a sexless relationship again (there are lots of mistakes I made in that R I would never make again): I wouldn't risk making somebody feel crazily rejected as you say, or causing them to look elsewhere! If I HAVE to be on medication when at any point during this relationship then I'll find ways around it, but in general I hope not to be (it's anti-depressants I was (and am now again) taking).

 

Here's the deal: I am in year 23 of a great marriage - with great sex. No cheating on either side. No desire to cheat for me. Plenty of chances.

 

This is the kind of thing I wanted to hear.

 

Why aren't you sleeping with your current man? Seems odd to me.

 

Because we're not actually in a relationship yet and I don't want to do that without any commitment. Even after it's official I'll be waiting a while before taking that step.

 

One of the signs you're in a relationship that could go the distance is the ease with which you communicate with each other. I knew my H and I were a good fit when, from early on, we could talk to each other about anything. It's concerning that you are hesitant to talk about matters that should be open points of discussion in a healthy relationship.

 

I could talk to him about anything as a friend (for 6 years) before the idea of wanting a relationship with him came up. But as a female I am constantly told (via things I read such as relationship advice sites, and also by my female friends) that men don't respond well to too much emotion/drama, it makes them feel pressured, that being emotionally vulnerable "puts them off" etc.. So since developing feelings for him I have shut this side of myself down in front of him and just concentrated on being "fun and "confident" to be around (which is also always advised). I probably need to find a balance between the two?

 

Thank you to everyone for your responses. I'm actually feeling a lot better now but that probably mostly to do with the fact that I've been back on medication (20mg Citalopram/Celexa) since Thursday. But because the meds have completely calmed by anxiety down it's enabling me to think more rationally about things without emoting too much. The medication won't be a permanent thing (i've spent too many years of my life on this stuff) but I'm going to stick with it until I have completely sorted my head out, and then ween myself off slowly. Still awaiting therapy also!

 

Some of you seem to be thinking that I want complete guarantees that my relationship will be perfect, that I want 100% reassurance etc. That's not the case at all and there has never been a point where I've thought that you can guarantee anything in a relationship, or life in general. When I cross the road there is a risk a car will hit me but it doesn't stop me doing it because it's not a high risk. My post was alluding to the fact that it seemed to me from what I've read that it's ALMOST INEVITABLE that sexual attraction, love or both will be lost at some point in a marriage - particularly a mans sexual attraction towards his wife. And that terrifies me.

 

But I'm now trying my best to tell myself that this does not necessarily happen (those of you who are married/have been married your posts have been reassuring). It's just hard when there seems to be so much evidence that it usually does.

 

I'm also trying to work on being happy in MYSELF before entering into this relationship as a few of you have suggested because if not a) The relationship will be unhealthy and b) If it all comes crashing down I'll have nothing to fall back on. Thirdly I'm trying to concentrate more on our circumstances as a couple (most of which go in our favour in terms of divorce rates, etc) and also who Richard is as a person (I still have a few burning questions about this but I will be addressing them with him before taking the relationship any further - For example I need to ask him why he didn't think he could make a relationship work with me long-term back when we were sleeping together, and what has changed since, other than him being over his "ex").

[KungFuJoe]

Married for 10 years, together for 12 years.

 

VERY MONOGAMOUS. Very happily married. No. Scratch that. RIDICULOUSLY happily married. No scratch that, too. Words can't describe how happy my wife and I are.

 

As for the "honeymoon" stage...ours never really ended. We started out hot and heavy and though there was a bit of a decline after three kids, now that our youngest is 5, we have picked it up and THEN some. We have MORE and BETTER sex than when we were first together. Just last night, we were up til 2AM effing each other's brains out and am definitely feeling it this morning...but it's all worth it...and we're probably going to doing the same thing tonight. Of course, it doesn't hurt that we both work from home and so we're together 24/7.

[Quiet Storm]

My husband has been having sex with me for 21 years and isn't bored yet. He still initiates sex, he still wants to touch and kiss me and he still loves my body.

 

He watches porn sometimes alone. We watch porn sometimes together.

 

I accept that he will be attracted to other women, but chooses me. I am not threatened by it. It's like noticing a beautiful car, a mountain, a city skyline.

 

His noticing another woman's beauty doesn't negate his love or attraction to me. Men can appreciate the beauty of many women simultaneously. He is a great husband and father, and I know he loves me. We are faithful. We still have great sex. We flirt. We are happy, content and love our life.

 

If he ever did leave me, I wouldn't regret our marriage. He gave me three beautiful kids and many happy years.

 

There are no guarantees in life.