Pyro Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Ok, but would you agree that a confident extrovert will act differently from a confident introvert...? And if so, can these two different behaviors be perceived differently? Yes Speaking in general terms, a confident extrovert is more outgoing and more in the middle of everything and a confident introvert is more laid back and not as 'loud' General terms of course.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 That's very true. And when I am around friends or others where I'm just quiet because I'm tired, they might have a tendency to ignore me or not bother talking to me. Probably also because I come off disinterested in what's going on, which is probably true. Well, we are all social creatures after all and we all want to fit in. Perception is created by our imagination. Some people have poor perception, some have excellent. Humans either fear or are fascinated by the unknown. Racism is also a form of fear created within us because we don't understand (or understand little) about a certain ethnicity, hence we fill in the blanks with stereotypes. Right, and I feel like my mind is shifting from reality to perception, as this is often pivotal in social situations...and those who ignore the reality and power of perception are probably doing themselves a disservice. I think though about confidence. It is a homogenization of an individual as a whole. It has part to do with social skills as does the way you carry yourself, to the kind of clothes you wear, to your body language, adapting to situations,....be it book smarts or street smarts...it's all smacked together to create the formula for confidence. I don't disagree. But let's set aside what "real confidence" means to us. And let's pretend we're asking Suzy Rottencrotch, what is the best way for a guy to improve with women? She'll likely say, "be confident!" What do you think she means by that?
SJC2008 Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) If it means have the sack to ask for a #/date and to make a move then I am confident. If it means to be some charming,brazen stud who always knows what to do and what to say in every situation then I am NOT confident. Edited July 11, 2012 by SJC2008 spelling
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I disagree that confidence and extroversion are mutually exclusive. There is no causation but there is certainly some correlation. If you look up definitions of both there is some overlap. Here are traits of confident people from selfgrowth.com article: 1. They are ambitious. 2. They are goal oriented. 3. They have learned to communicate. 4. They are loving and kind. 5. They are open to others. 6. They reinfornce confidence with words. I would say that 3, 5 and 6 are also traits of extroverts...hence correlation. 1
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 I disagree that confidence and extroversion are mutually exclusive. There is no causation but there is certainly some correlation. Yes, and certainly to a common layperson (e.g., a random person at a bar), being "confident" can be correlated to being an extrovert, in their mind. Few really know or care to know what true confidence is...I feel that society has turned "confidence" into a punchline to make whiny people shut up...
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Yes, and certainly to a common layperson (e.g., a random person at a bar), being "confident" can be correlated to being an extrovert, in their mind. Few really know or care to know what true confidence is...I feel that society has turned "confidence" into a punchline to make whiny people shut up... To a common layperson, these two terms are pretty much used interchangably. In a bar setting, the loudest person will be seen as "most confident". Nobody is going to pull put exact definitions.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 To a common layperson, these two terms are pretty much used interchangably. In a bar setting, the loudest person will be seen as "most confident". Nobody is going to pull put exact definitions. And this is what I'm referring to. Like I've said in a previous thread, LS is not the real world. I doubt much of the real world thinks about interpersonal relationships and the concepts thereof with as much depth as some of the members here might. So that's why I said that there might be 20 different definitions and perceptions of "confidence." And though I do not disagree with any of the definitions of confidence presented in this thread, it seems to me that many of them just point to the same thing: be more extroverted.
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Do you recommend that people fake, or even completely change, their social nature for the sake of being seen as "more confident"...? Sorry, didn't see this question. I am not sure what I recommend. I did this with great sucess (in terms of changing my social life) but if you beleive in "fake it till you make it", well I never made it. I still feel like I am putting on an act. This is not so problematic if you want to make friends to hang out with occassionaly, but I attracted boyfriends who loved extroverted girls. And I am not. It's quite exhausting to put on an act of being louder, more talkative, more entartaining than you really are for prolonged periods of time. All these boyfriends were dissapointed when they saw the real me (i.e. more of an introvert).... So yeah - good for short term but in long term, I am afraid you will have to be your authentic self.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 I am not sure what I recommend. I did this with great sucess (in terms of changing my social life) but if you beleive in "fake it till you make it", well I never made it. I still feel like I am putting on an act. This is not so problematic if you want to make friends to hang out with occassionaly, but I attracted boyfriends who loved extroverted girls. And I am not. It's quite exhausting to put on an act of being louder, more talkative, more entartaining than you really are for prolonged periods of time. All these boyfriends were dissapointed when they saw the real me (i.e. more of an introvert).... So yeah - good for short term but in long term, I am afraid you will have to be your authentic self. Yet it seems that the PUA industry was built upon this concept. Fake it 'til you make it. But strangely enough, the success of the industry demonstrates that it does work...is it really as simple as just being more extroverted, regardless of your actual confidence level?
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 And this is what I'm referring to. Like I've said in a previous thread, LS is not the real world. I doubt much of the real world thinks about interpersonal relationships and the concepts thereof with as much depth as some of the members here might. So that's why I said that there might be 20 different definitions and perceptions of "confidence." And though I do not disagree with any of the definitions of confidence presented in this thread, it seems to me that many of them just point to the same thing: be more extroverted. Yes, on LS people love to debate theory and intellectualize concepts. That is interesting and all, but if you want something that you can actually apply in the real world; well theory and practice often do not quite match. 1
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Yet it seems that the PUA industry was built upon this concept. Fake it 'til you make it. But strangely enough, the success of the industry demonstrates that it does work...is it really as simple as just being more extroverted, regardless of your actual confidence level? But hasn't it been demonstrated that PUA techniques only work if you want something short term? Are those PUA artists in long term, loving relationships?
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 But hasn't it been demonstrated that PUA techniques only work if you want something short term? Are those PUA artists in long term, loving relationships? Oh, I don't know. I'm pretty sure PUA is advertised as strictly the method of approach...everything after that in terms of a relationship is beyond the scope of their perview... But even if it was just for short term relationships, or just for the approach, wouldn't it aid a confident introvert into making the approach? And from there, it's smooth sailing as he allows his confident personality to take over...? And what was the only change he made? Become more extroverted through the PUA methods...
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 Yes, on LS people love to debate theory and intellectualize concepts. That is interesting and all, but if you want something that you can actually apply in the real world; well theory and practice often do not quite match. Well, I feel that my "theories," although a bit unpopular on LS, tend to reflect a more realistic and less romanticized view of how things are...and though I am likely labeled as cynical and bitter, I'm just reflecting what I believe "normal people" to be thinking...
Star Gazer Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 And this is precisely what I'm getting at...how does loving yourself and not fearing rejection change your dating? I can "be confident" by your definition and still sit along the wall just as someone who hates himself and fears rejection would sit along the wall... But do hate yourself, and you do fear rejection. You're not confident in the slightest when it comes to ***DATING***.
Star Gazer Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I don't think so. I am more of an introvert and I am very confident in myself. Confidence means that you like who you are (no need to BS) and you don't fear rejection. Spot on, Pyro.
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 But do hate yourself, and you do fear rejection. You're not confident in the slightest when it comes to ***DATING***. That's why I think he is thinking/posting so much about confidence. He is trying to figure it out so he can improve himself. 1
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 That's why I think he is thinking/posting so much about confidence. He is trying to figure it out so he can improve himself. Partially. I'm a little skeptical of all the conventional "wisdom" (especially as it's doled out on LS) regarding the topic, as it just doesn't seem as logically sound or reasoned as well as what I've been coming up with...so it's just as much, if not more, an intellectual debate for me.
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Partially. I'm a little skeptical of all the conventional "wisdom" (especially as it's doled out on LS) regarding the topic, as it just doesn't seem as logically sound or reasoned as well as what I've been coming up with...so it's just as much, if not more, an intellectual debate for me. I think that conventional wisdom on the topic is equvivalent to "blowing sunshine up someone's a..." 1
Anela Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 No. The word "confidence" (in dating) is often a pussy way of saying "come do all the work, so I don't have to risk being rejected". Real confidence is doing/saying/being however the f*ck you want to, when you want to, without a care in the world. No, I think that makes one a dickhead. You should pay attention to the men here that the women like to talk with. Rather than making up stories about them being idiots with no backbone, falling all over themselves to win points with the women, just observe them. Take notes. Pay attention to the advice that they give to you, and others with the same problems that you're having. Or, you can keep up the woman-hating talk, keep giving virtual high-fives to your fellow misogynists, and never have a decent relationship.
denise_xo Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Is "being confident" merely exhibiting the behaviors of an extrovert? No, to me it means that you show integrity and consistency in behaviour which is anchored within yourself. You don't have to be an extrovert to show that. 2
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 No, to me it means that you show integrity and consistency in behaviour which is anchored within yourself. You don't have to be an extrovert to show that. Got it. But what does "be confident" really mean in a common social sense...? Is there even a definitive meaning for it? And could "be an extrovert" be one of those meanings...?
Ninjainpajamas Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I think that conventional wisdom on the topic is equvivalent to "blowing sunshine up someone's a..." If you are to ask a person or publicly an opinion on the subject and they give you their honest answer its not in their fault that you don't "get it" or understand, or even agree...they are merely expressing how it works for them and what is reality among them which seems to be consistent, based on their perspective...that fact that you may not accept that as your own "truth" is not their problem. So who's to say who's the one really blowing the smoke? When someone is good or exceptional at something others usually ask that person "how do you do it?" It doesn't mean they'll understand or accept the answer however...and that's the difference...for some people its just "unrealistic" expectation for them to accomplish based on what they've heard, usually followed by excuses...which is your right to make and how to live. 1
Star Gazer Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Got it. But what does "be confident" really mean in a common social sense...? Is there even a definitive meaning for it? And could "be an extrovert" be one of those meanings...? No. Having confidence, for example, means not having "I apologize in advance for not being white" as a dating profile tag line.
Emilia Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 No. Having confidence, for example, means not having "I apologize in advance for not being white" as a dating profile tag line. Talk about getting personal, ouch!
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