USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) In my continuing quest for a more in depth study of "confidence" as it relates to ***DATING***, I offer the following... "Be confident" is one of the most proliferated bits of dating advice you'll find anywhere, whether it's on LS, reading online articles, or talking with people in real life. But what does it really mean to "be confident"? When asked this, people will come up with a wide range of answers, including "believe in yourself," "do what you want and approach who you want without caring what others think," and "go after what you want." We might visualize a suave, well-dressed man who can smooth talk women, or a very social person who has presence and "owns a room." That is, we visualize an extrovert. On the other hand, an introvert who might be shy or reserved in public is often seen as being unconfident. Is "being confident" merely exhibiting the behaviors of an extrovert? There is an entire PUA industry that teaches methods of, in essence, "faking confidence," but isn't all that just encouraging an otherwise "unconfident" person to be more extroverted? Does that mean that introverts have no place in dating, or a very limited place? Should introverts be encouraged to act contrary to their nature and become extroverts? Dating is a social activity that is inherently external to the individual. If having confidence is knowing your real value and believing in yourself, does social confidence mean that you have to show it...? Edited July 11, 2012 by USMCHokie
Pyro Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I don't think so. I am more of an introvert and I am very confident in myself. Confidence means that you like who you are (no need to BS) and you don't fear rejection. 5
aRealMan Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 No. The word "confidence" (in dating) is often a pussy way of saying "come do all the work, so I don't have to risk being rejected". Real confidence is doing/saying/being however the f*ck you want to, when you want to, without a care in the world. Besides, your body language often speaks louder than your mouth ever will. And I'm so tired of this stupid ass word -- I'm tired of "swag" too. My bad for the rant.
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Few years ago, I tried faking being an extrovert. It worked and both my social and dating options skyrocketed. Perhaps telling people to be more extroverted is less ambiguous that telling them to be confident... 1
Lonely Ronin Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I think your observation is right on. I'm a slight introvert, and I always seem to do better when I have had a drink or two. I'm more relaxed, and i open up more. 1
Pyro Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 being an as$hole does not equate to being confident. Its closer related to being insecure. 3
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 I don't think so. I am more of an introvert and I am very confident in myself. Confidence means that you like who you are (no need to BS) and you don't fear rejection. And this is precisely what I'm getting at...how does loving yourself and not fearing rejection change your dating? I can "be confident" by your definition and still sit along the wall just as someone who hates himself and fears rejection would sit along the wall...
aRealMan Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 being an as$hole does not equate to being confident. Its closer related to being insecure. I hope that wasn't a sac-less sneak jab towards me. Doing whatever you want isn't being an "as$hole". It's just being happy and in your own world.
Pyro Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 And this is precisely what I'm getting at...how does loving yourself and not fearing rejection change your dating? I can "be confident" by your definition and still sit along the wall just as someone who hates himself and fears rejection would sit along the wall... what do you mean change your dating? Your confidence will be seen by the opposite sex and it will give you positive results. Yes you will have shortcomings as well, but that is how dating is.
Pyro Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I hope that wasn't a sac-less sneak jab towards me. Doing whatever you want isn't being an "as$hole". It's just being happy and in your own world. doing or saying things without a care in the world can be an as$hole thing. Everyone should have boundaries.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 Few years ago, I tried faking being an extrovert. It worked and both my social and dating options skyrocketed. Perhaps telling people to be more extroverted is less ambiguous that telling them to be confident... Do you recommend that people fake, or even completely change, their social nature for the sake of being seen as "more confident"...?
monkey00 Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 On the other hand, an introvert who might be shy or reserved in public is often seen as being unconfident. I think you need to look up the precise definition for introvert before jumping to conclusions about shyness. I classify myself as introvert but only because I like to reserve my energy to more important matters. And I need alone time every now and then to recharge my batteries. I will speak out if needed, can be social if needed, and will ask someone out if I am attracted to them. Read below link: Definition of Introvert -- What is an Introvert? Is "being confident" merely exhibiting the behaviors of an extrovert? There is an entire PUA industry that teaches methods of, in essence, "faking confidence," but isn't all that just encouraging an otherwise "unconfident" person to be more extroverted? Does that mean that introverts have no place in dating, or a very limited place? Should introverts be encouraged to act contrary to their nature and become extroverts? Dating is a social activity that is inherently external to the individual. If having confidence is knowing your real value and believing in yourself, does social confidence mean that you have to show it...? I find the underlying problem though with people who are reserved versus people who are constantly social is that social people get more respect believe it or not. Particularly in Western society. Speaking out gets you respect, perhaps as far as being rowdy. Quiet people do not really get as much respect. Quietness also can equate to being boring. People love to talk about themselves, and if you don't brag or talk about yourself (or tell stories for that matter) no one will care about you or your opinion. Loudness gets attention, that's fact.
brahmabull117 Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Fantastic thread here man I actually believe that an introvert can do well with women if he can act around them the same way he acts around his best friends. It just takes him a lot of work to do that because he's naturally uncomfortable around strange people
aRealMan Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 doing or saying things without a care in the world can be an as$hole thing. Everyone should have boundaries. Well....you make what you want of it, but we all know by now what actually works. *out
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 what do you mean change your dating? Change your approach to the opposite gender. Your confidence will be seen by the opposite sex and it will give you positive results. Yes you will have shortcomings as well, but that is how dating is. Refer to bolded above. Does confidence necessarily have to be externally projected? Or put another way, if you don't physically show it, are you not truly confident? Disclaimer: I'm a little bit in Socrates Mode at the moment, if I start pissing you off, the codeword is: and we'll call it off.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 I think you need to look up the precise definition for introvert before jumping to conclusions about shyness. Read below link: Definition of Introvert -- What is an Introvert? Thanks for the link, it had some good information that helps clarify my thought process through this. Now my response to this is that introverts may not be shy, timid, or "anti-social," but they can be perceived as such by the general population. Perception may not be reality, but perception is real. If you are quietly sitting somewhere in deep contemplation, you may be perceived as something you really aren't. Keep in mind that in the social world, what those around you are thinking are often just as important, if not more important, than what you're thinking. I find the underlying problem though with people who are reserved versus people who are constantly social is that social people get more respect believe it or not. Particularly in Western society. Speaking out gets you respect, perhaps as far as being rowdy. Quiet people do not really get as much respect. Quietness also can equate to being boring. People love to talk about themselves, and if you don't brag or talk about yourself (or tell stories for that matter) no one will care about you or your opinion. Loudness gets attention, that's fact. The above demonstrates my point.
MrCastle Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I don't think one has much to do with the other. By default, being extroverted will improve your dating life because the more often you go out, the more people you meet. But you can be confident and introverted or lack confidence and be extroverted. It wasn't until coming on to LS that I saw the concept of confidence was even debated. Confidence means you believe in yourself and your abilities. You believe you're a catch and you have a lot to offer your dating targets, and you act accordingly.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 I don't think one has much to do with the other. By default, being extroverted will improve your dating life because the more often you go out, the more people you meet. But you can be confident and introverted or lack confidence and be extroverted. I would agree that confidence and social propensity can be independent attributes. Like you said, you can be an extrovert who fakes confidence, or an introvert who is extremely confident, and all premutations thereof. However, when a common layperson advises another to "be confident," do they really mean to just be more extroverted? As you said, by the simple fact of being more extroverted, you will create more social opportunities, regardless of your confidence. How do you actually know someone is confident? As Pyro mentioned earlier, it's because others see your confidence. Does that mean you have to show it, much like an extrovert would? Confidence means you believe in yourself and your abilities. You believe you're a catch and you have a lot to offer your dating targets, and you act accordingly. I will buy your definition of confidence. But why must you "act accordingly"? If you don't act, are you not confident?
GravityMan Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 There is very little, if any, correlation between introversion/extroversion and confidence. They are mostly mutually exclusive. I know both men and women who are introverted yet also exude confidence. Such people can handle themselves just fine in a crowd or when publicly speaking to an audience; they merely PREFER convos of only a small group of people and like some "alone" time. These people believe in themselves and are often quite successful in life, including romantically attracting someone. I also know people of both genders who are extroverted, but lack genuine confidence and come across as insecure. Such people tend to actually use socialization with lots of people as a means to suppress and escape their fears and insecurities.
monkey00 Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Now my response to this is that introverts may not be shy, timid, or "anti-social," but they can be perceived as such by the general population. Perception may not be reality, but perception is real. If you are quietly sitting somewhere in deep contemplation, you may be perceived as something you really aren't. Keep in mind that in the social world, what those around you are thinking are often just as important, if not more important, than what you're thinking. That's very true. And when I am around friends or others where I'm just quiet because I'm tired, they might have a tendency to ignore me or not bother talking to me. Probably also because I come off disinterested in what's going on, which is probably true. Well, we are all social creatures after all and we all want to fit in. Perception is created by our imagination. Some people have poor perception, some have excellent. Humans either fear or are fascinated by the unknown. Racism is also a form of fear created within us because we don't understand (or understand little) about a certain ethnicity, hence we fill in the blanks with stereotypes. But you can be confident and introverted or lack confidence and be extroverted. I agree with that. The extrovert's problem might be that he needs to be the life of the party or the center of attention to feel good about himself. But if he isn't he may feel insecure. It depends, both extremes can have or can be lacking confidence. I think though about confidence. It is a homogenization of an individual as a whole. It has part to do with social skills as does the way you carry yourself, to the kind of clothes you wear, to your body language, adapting to situations,....be it book smarts or street smarts...it's all smacked together to create the formula for confidence.
Pyro Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Well....you make what you want of it, but we all know by now what actually works. *out and you can make out of it what you want as well. I know what works just fine. Thank you. Change your approach to the opposite gender. Refer to bolded above. Does confidence necessarily have to be externally projected? Or put another way, if you don't physically show it, are you not truly confident? When you are confident it will naturally show through you being yourself, so in essence no effort is required to show it once you have it, IMO of course.
MrCastle Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I would agree that confidence and social propensity can be independent attributes. Like you said, you can be an extrovert who fakes confidence, or an introvert who is extremely confident, and all premutations thereof. However, when a common layperson advises another to "be confident," do they really mean to just be more extroverted? As you said, by the simple fact of being more extroverted, you will create more social opportunities, regardless of your confidence. How do you actually know someone is confident? As Pyro mentioned earlier, it's because others see your confidence. Does that mean you have to show it, much like an extrovert would?[/Quote] Well I've never linked confidence to being extroverted ever. If I go to a bar and see people drinking or dancing i don't say "whoa look at all these confident people!". Confidence to me requires much more than just being able to be sociable. I will buy your definition of confidence. But why must you "act accordingly"? If you don't act, are you not confident? When I say act accordingly, I think there are things confident people do that others don't. For example, a needy guy with no options may flip out over a girl not answerig a text right away or at all, and maybe send her a bitter trxt about how he deserves her attention and respect etc. A confident guy who has options and doesn't take dating seriously will let stuff like that roll off his back. He's too busy focusing on his life to worry about some girl not texting him. He knows if she's really into him she'll text him. He doesn't need to be clingy or needy.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 There is very little, if any, correlation between introversion/extroversion and confidence. They are mostly mutually exclusive. I have modified my stance since I created this thread and would agree that they are indeed mutually exclusive when it comes to the internal workings of the individual. Now how would you handle others' perception of introverts v. extroverts?
MrCastle Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Btw sorry for the minor typos. Typing on my phone and stupid LS won't let me edit.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 11, 2012 Author Posted July 11, 2012 Well I've never linked confidence to being extroverted ever. If I go to a bar and see people drinking or dancing i don't say "whoa look at all these confident people!". Confidence to me requires much more than just being able to be sociable. Yea, I think we've firmly established that there's no direct causality between the two. Though, I still venture to think there may be a correlation. And there's definitely a perception that can be made between the two. When I say act accordingly, I think there are things confident people do that others don't. When you are confident it will naturally show through you being yourself, so in essence no effort is required to show it once you have it, IMO of course. Ok, but would you agree that a confident extrovert will act differently from a confident introvert...? And if so, can these two different behaviors be perceived differently?
Recommended Posts